Didn't everybody know all of this before the book? Actually, I don't think any of us knew this, and if you say you did, you're probably full of excrement. TBH, to be fair, millertime could have been referring NOT to Bonds' presumed steroid use, but to the fact that some reporters are pretty sure that Bonds used steroids. This book is not breaking a whole lot open, it seems to me -- the guys who initially reported that there is circumstantial evidence implicating Bonds are now revealing that they have so much circumstantial evidence that they could fit it in a book. I can't believe SI is splashing "THE TRUTH" across the front of the magazine -- at best this is "THE PROBABLY TRUE," but unless Bonds holds a press conference and says, "I took the damn stuff, okay? Whatever..." or even if somebody who doesn't have an ulterior motive (like, say, an ex-mistress) says, "I personally jammed a needle into Bonds behind," and then stands by it consistently, I say we are not yet at "THE TRUTH." Additionally, I am stunned by the Woodward and Bernstein job these Chronicle guys did on Bonds. That's a lot of man hours just to discredit one baseball player. The fact that they appear to have drawn their conclusion in advance of their research makes me not so keen on subscribing to that paper. I wonder, if someone put in that much effort with a focus on exonerating Bonds, would they be able to create as compelling a case the other way? On review: I realize the fast pace of this thread has already made some of these points, but I worked so hard I'm keeping them in mine, too.
. And this (long-winded) question: when given the opportunity to "testify" against Bonds on 60 Minutes, Victor Conte declined; he said that he sold steroids (etc.) to Anderson, but he had no knowledge connecting them directly to Bonds. In the note on sourcing, the authors claim in several places that Conte did implicate Bonds directly. See here, for example: "In his own statement during the raid, Conte gave an identical account of Anderson's bringing Bonds to BALCO and Bonds's subsequent use of the Cream and the Clear. Conte said Bonds used the drugs on a regular basis. Conte later claimed Novitzky's report contained words he never said." Does anybody have any explanation for that? It seems a bit strange. After he got caught, Conte was happy to talk about Marion Jones and Tim Montgomery to anybody who would listen; but he backed away from Bonds.
Until the allegations in this book are actually proven, they don't have any more credibilty than Jose Canseco's. Anybody can write a book, and many do, usually with the intent of making some money. The more spectacular the allegations, the more people buy the book. Not to say that this might not all prove to be true, but until it is, its just somebody else's storyline. Amateur- I was also wondering about the difference in Conte's statements. Was he lying in the 60 Minutes interview? Now my real dilemma- do I try to trade BB from my fantasy team while he still has some value, or stick with him, hoping this will all blow over and he gets me the 30 or so HR's I was hoping for when I got him in the 6th round?
Vote Bonds for president!!! By the time his long historic baseball career comes to the end he'll be the most popular American alive. The most hated--maybe--but popular none the less. His name will live in baseball infamy forever. Step aside Babe, kneel down Hanks, here comes Bonds. No doubt bonds used stroids, we didn't need a book to tell us that. But you can't deny him of one thing, and that's he was good. He wasn't the only one using stroids you know.....and yet no one else seemed to be that damn good. And Im not just talking about HR. Last I checked stroids did nothing for patience at the plate. I sure do hate bonds, but hes got my vote for pres..
And Pete Rose got banned from baseball for doing what? Pro sports needs to re-prioritize.
When Bill Clinton lied, nobody died. Wait, sorry...umm...whoops.
Now my real dilemma- do I try to trade BB from my fantasy team while he still has some value, or stick with him, hoping this will all blow over and he gets me the 30 or so HR's I was hoping for when I got him in the 6th round? Oh, you have to keep him. His potential value is huge, but his trade market value is much too low at this point. Your best option is to either ride out the storm or to hope for one HELL of an April from him and dump him to an overeager fan. And Pete Rose got banned from baseball for doing what? Breaking the most important rule established in the game since the Black Sox scandal almost destroyed the sport (and one that is posted in every locker room).
Let all athletes use steroids. Then everything will be equal. Sure Roger Maris had his homeruns without them, but then again he hit the homeruns agains pitchers who weren't taking them So Bond's was a little jacked up, then again so were some of the pitchers he faced. It all evens itself out in the end.
The reason that this book is coming out now is that the balco grand jury is closed, the official investigation is over, the indicted judged and sentenced. the evidence, testimony, etc is not exactly in the public domain, but it is no longer sealed. The writers still needed court orders to access parts of it. Conte was happy to talk about Marion Jones and Tim Montgomery to anybody who would listen; but he backed away from Bonds. Because Jones and Montgomery were track stars not widely known outside their sport. Even if you don't watch baseball, you still know who barry bonds is. I was also wondering about the difference in Conte's statements. Was he lying in the 60 Minutes interview? Come on. Even by that interview anyone who cared knew Conte was a chameleon- changing his story depending on who he was talking to at the time. The guys who initially reported that there is circumstantial evidence implicating Bonds are now revealing that they have so much circumstantial evidence that they could fit it in a book The Giants had enough clout to have the morning show host, producer, and director at KNBR fired after the host made a negative comment about the Giants. Chronicle reporters are not going to write a book about San Francisco's favorite baseball player if they didn't have the "juice" (pun intended) to back it up.
I blame the business of baseball more than I blame Barry Bonds. He's an emblem of an era where performance-enhancing drugs were widely accepted. It was an open secret in 1998 that McGwire and Sosa were juiced on something when they were the heros who saved baseball, and I don't think there's a moral difference between what McGwire was using and what Bonds allegedly used. Bonds' biggest problem is that he's a jerk, so he gets criticized and derided when McGwire was idolized for doing basically the same thing. I don't condone using steroids, but I don't think it's fair or logical to single out someone for doing something that was widely acceptable in the sport. MLB (and the fans for the most part) accepted sterioid use. I have a hard time attributing Bonds' success to steroids, because I believe more than a few other players were, too. Baseball Almanac has lists of the top 25 National League home run leaders for 1998 (McGwire led with 70; bonds had 37), 1999 (McGwire 65; Bonds 34), 2000 (Sosa 50; Bonds 49), 2001 (Bonds 70; Sosa 64), 2002 (Sosa 49; Bonds 46), 2003 (Thome 47; Bonds 45), and 2004 (Beltre 48; Bonds 45). Five National League players hit 40 or more home runs in 1998, seven in 1999, nine in 2000, seven in 2001, four in 2002, six in 2003, and six in 2004. Bonds was only way ahead of the pack in 2001. Were those other players juiced, too? I also don't agree with the idea of taking his records away. He set those records by playing the game was it was played in the late 1990s and early 2000s, with players taking steroids. The San Francisco Chronicle has a an article with more, plus a podcast of an interview with the two writers.
Chronicle reporters are not going to write a book about San Francisco's favorite baseball player if they didn't have the "juice" (pun intended) to back it up. took the words right out of my mouth clones. these writers are definitely putting their jobs and credibility under intense scrutiny here. moneys aside, they're risking a lot.
So Bond's was a little jacked up, then again so were some of the pitchers he faced. It all evens itself out in the end. Finally someone states the obvious. Are we all really naive enough to think that only a few players are guilty of being juiced?
I was also wondering about the difference in Conte's statements. Was he lying in the 60 Minutes interview? Come on. Even by that interview anyone who cared knew Conte was a chameleon- changing his story depending on who he was talking to at the time. My point exactly. So this time we should believe he's really telling the truth.
As I said, you really have to love a book based on illegally obtained information that can't be refuted publicly by those involved Bonds can refute anything he likes -- to the media and in court with the best libel attorneys money can buy. You can play attack the messenger all you like, but looking at the depth of sourcing on which two professional mainstream journalists appear to have based their book, I don't think it will work. My guess -- and this is as someone who loves to watch Bonds hit more than any other athlete in the game -- is that he's about to have his testosterone-stuffed ass handed to him.
just regrow the mustache and we'll call it even.
The only way you are going to stop players from cheating is to take away their statsrecords when they get busted. We all know that even without this book Bonds had an * on all he's accomplished. As far as I am concerned it goes for any player in any era- if they cheated they forfeit their recordsstats.
"these writers are definitely putting their jobs and credibility under intense scrutiny here. moneys aside, they're risking a lot"...... ah yes....and 6 months from now when they are rolling in their millions from this garbage they'll say....."gee I wish I were a beat writer following the Giants around."
until we find Bonds with a needle sticking out of his rear, the world may never know....
Are we all really naive enough to think that only a few players are guilty of being juiced? A good point. I'm guessing the real hate here is because Barry is the way he is: standoffish, aloof, doesn't seem to most of us like a nice guy. Dale Murphy, he ain't. Let's also not forget the record he stands to break. The fact that it is Barry, and it's one of the most hallowed records in all of professional sports ratchets the hatred level up a few notches.
This isn't about steroids or cheaters. This is about people that don't like Barry Bonds period. Why aren't there any threads about Rafael Palmiero? In case anyone forgot, he was actually caught at something. So keep on bashing Barry and he'll keep on bashing your pitching staffs.
Why aren't there any threads about Rafael Palmiero? Maybe because nobody cares about Rafael Palmeiro anymore?
It has alot to do with Bonds being the best.
Rafael Palmeiro killed his career when he decided to be a spokesman for the little blue pills
Exactly my point. But shouldn't all these self righteous baseball purists be concerned with making an example of Palmiero? If it wasn't about Barry Bonds then the story would have been dropped just like it was with Palmiero. They all sound like a bunch of whiny 10 year olds. Barry is a cheater. Barry is a cheater.... It's entertainment folks. That's all it is.
I think it's a combination of all the factors the last few posters have mentioned. It's also important to remember that this often irrational hatred of Bonds works well to sell books, newspapers, magazines, and airtime. It's funny to me how disgusted many are by cheating yet how prevalent a part of society it is. From tax loopholes to viagra, most everyone is a cheater and a hypocrite...
The both have one thing in common. After all the steroid scrutiny neither one of them has hit many home runs. Barry knows everyone hates him and he will play until he is 50 if thats what it takes to break the HR record.
And isn't also amazing how this story just happened to coincidentally break right at the start of baseball season? Perhaps it wasn't news worthy enough before now or could it be about selling books and magazines? How many people are out there now cheating their bosses by reading this during company time????
Why aren't there any threads about Rafael Palmiero? We've had our Palmiero threads. You must have missed them. The book is about barry, not palmiero, so the thread is about barry. Come on, this is obvious stuff.
For every person that suggests Barry Bonds' records should be removed/marked for using performance enhancing drugs, are they also willing to paint Mike Schmidt with the same "cheater" brush? How about Willie Mays? And here is a good explanation why "removing" Bonds' records is a quagmire of problems on it's own. (and before someone calls me a "Bonds' apologist", I've made it perfectly clear that I believed he used something in 2000 or 2001)
Look at the can of worms you open princess valium. Prince valium, sorry its the hair. I got nothing in regard to Bonds just wanted to point out the Spaceballs refrence.
Bonds can refute anything he likes -- to the media and in court with the best libel attorneys money can buy. There is just no upside for him to do so. It is virtually impossible to win in court and only keeps these things in the public eye and helps them sell more books. Bonds would be forced to prove that the information was false and was made with actual malice. The media is very much anti-Bonds, so pleading his case there will not get him anywhere either. And, having a lot of sources isn't really the same as being right. It's impossible to judge whether these are well-supported allegations without taking a look at the sources, none of which are available.
I had another diatribe all written, but Grum's "Willie Mays" link said it a whole lot better.
I just feel sorry for all the good players out there were displaced by the cheating girlie men that were just playing the "game". What a farce, it could have been policed, controlled, nobody in charge. In the Olympics you are tested and its all over. In Baseball all that happens is alot of talk that just makes more people unsure who is who, what is what. It doesn't matter anymore to me. I see to many people from the grade school level all the way too the professional level, developing themselves or the system to WIN. Hey be true to your colors what ever happens, ha.
I'm a Barry fan, but to say anything about his records being takin' away is just ridiculous. The fact that he is still playing at 42 and not being a pitcher is an accomplishment in it self. Remember, enhancments don't make you hit the ball, they may help you hit it farther. Whats the difference in a 390 ft. shot, or 500 ft. a homerun is just what it is. ps. if you want to talk about numbers raising for a year or two.....does anyone remember Brady Anderson!!! That's the roid boy!!
But Palmeiro got caught and walked away from the game with no records to his name. And Spofi, at the time, nailed Palmeiro to a tree, repeatedly, for months. He didn't exactly escape censure. (Check the archives; it got harsh.) Bonds, by the very nature of his stature and the fact that he's done himself no favors in the PR department, especially among the beat writers who had to deal with him every day, will get as much flak as anyone. That's just how it's going to be. Oh, and leave his records alone. Not only were steroids basically legal at the time (getting caught merited a slap on the wrist, but that was it, and even then only in some cases), but as has been said repeatedly in this thread, retrofitting morality onto old results opens a serious can of worms.
WIND ADVISORY: perpetual, hot air will be blowing inland from the SF bay all day today. And, having a lot of sources isn't really the same as being right. It's impossible to judge whether these are well-supported allegations without taking a look at the sources, none of which are available. very true. as always, this is all speculation, but that's the fun part, right? How many people are out there now cheating their bosses by reading this during company time???? an astute comparison. i guess that means i'll be due a 200% raise as a result of my "cheating." This isn't about steroids or cheaters. This is about people that don't like Barry Bonds period...And isn't also amazing how this story just happened to coincidentally break right at the start of baseball season? Perhaps it wasn't news worthy enough before now or could it be about selling books and magazines? well, no it isn't amazing at all. it's obviously well-timed to inspire interest and boost future sales... but i think you've got the orange and black wraparound glasses on a little too tight if you think only haters care about this book. if there's a chance that the best ballplayer in the history of the game used supplements to get there, i'd say that's newsworthy on its own merits. there are lots of players i don't like for one reason or another, but respect for their game. barry fell out of this category for me a long time ago.
Barry Bonds is a great baseball player. period.
Ya Ya, You can "maintain" a functioning stronger body longer taking enhancements and therefore play at a level others can't. I vote for honest competition not some unreal performance.
It's impossible to judge whether these are well-supported allegations without taking a look at the sources, none of which are available. The sources will be available on March 27 when the book comes out. I'm trying to chase down an early copy to review on SportsFilter. The allegations against Bonds amount to more than innuedo. They're a significant part of a grand jury investigation that has resulted in plea bargains for two people (Victor Conte and Greg Anderson) and ongoing criminal cases against two others. Are the prosecutors going after these cases a bunch of Barry haters?
>>>Are the prosecutors going after these cases a bunch of Barry haters? no, just opportunists looking for some Larry King time :)
(Sorry, Bonds had 73 home runs in 2001, not 70. I regret the error.) Everyone hit more home runs in 2001, though. The top 25 National League home run leaders averaged 36.12 home runs in 1998, 38 in 1999, 36.84 in 2000, 40.04 in 2001, 33.04 in 2002, 34.16 in 2003, and 35.64 in 2004.
an astute comparison. i guess that means i'll be due a 200% raise as a result of my "cheating." that good a hearty chuckle.
The cream & clear will probably be OTC in twenty years. He's a product of the times. If your angry that a player took performance enhancers then most of your childhood heroes are guilty as well.
Hello from the Wine Country. Let me help everyone here. I worked for both the SF Chronicle & Examiner for 8 years. Now, history has shown throughout the years that the Chronicle was the "sensationalist" newspaper and the Examiner was the "establishment" newspaper owned & operated for years by the Hearst family (anyone here remember Patty & her "adventure in Militant Land" in the 70's). Founded in the 1860's, the Chronicle will continue to be the sensationalist newspaper it. So here we have 2 reporters that work for the "Chronicle" and they are going to write this book. The only possibility is as we know, they have to write a "sensationalist" book. So the best way to do that is, as was noted before, they acquire illegally obtained documents and the rest you know, is probably going to be literary history. Also, high intellect is not a requirement of the job itself! You just have to be able to type.
And by the way (I posted this in another thread), it is at all concerning to you that on the front page of CNN right now is Bond's face, with 5 articles linked to it (including a 3 page one), and a whole BOOK about this. Yet Kirby Pucket just passed away and the media talks about his Clemente award, and there's a thread in this sports filter 64 posts long talking about how good he was, yet the man was accused of - Wife caught him in an affair with a mistress he had for 18 years (including other affairs as well) - put a cocked gun to her head as she held their then-2-year-old daughter - tried to strangle her with an electrical cord - locked her in the basement - threatened his mistress - accused of sexual assualt in a bathroom There's something wrong with people's priorities Notice that nowhere in that list of accusations does it say "cheating at baseball" or anything else related to the game. So why should any of it enter into a discussion about how good of a baseball player Kirby Puckett was? Surely you can see the difference, and how it relates to the game of baseball, between the charges leveled against Puckett and those leveled against Bonds.
they acquire illegally obtained documents This has come up repeatedly in the thread. So what? Would you have had us ignore the Pentagon Papers?
The cream & clear will probably be OTC in twenty years. So will bionic limbs (only with a prescription). I just want to know how he's going to respond to all of this. "I didn't know that they were animal steroids that I was taking." I wish I could be a fly on the wall when Barry and his lawyers try to figure out how to get out of this one.
Is this the right queue for the trainwreck?
I expect nothing but rational discourse and intelligent discussion in this thread. Well, it certainly started out o.k. but it's going nowhere fast.
Reply to Desert Dog's comment common man, I have done all of the same exercises that barry has, and i've used protein for over 7 years, not to mention the other supplements like creatine and other things, but in no WAY has my body changed anything like his has. He has doubled in size, and you can ask anyone who knows anything about lifting weights. That can't happen unless you use the juice, lets be real
I don't get the part where just because baseball didn't consider steroids illegal a few years ago makes this OK. It was still cheating. It's not just getting an edge over other players or compensating for aging muscles, it's cheating. Participants who cheat in any other sport get disqualified, and their recordswinnings medalsstats taken away. How can anyone say "leave the records alone" if they were achieved while cheating? How can anyone say "he's still a great baseball player" if he was cheating? CHEATING! Bonds may be at the epicenter at the moment, but that goes for any athlete that has used an enhancement.
I don't get the part where just because baseball didn't consider steroids illegal a few years ago makes this OK. Well, if something is not illegal, then what does that make it? Mark McGwire kept Andro in his locker in full sight of the press during his big '97 homer streak. Burleigh Grimes is in the Hall of Fame as a proud spitballer. Ty Cobb beat up cripples in the stands. (Admittedly, that didn't enhance his performance. Fair play to him, then.) Could any of them get away with their behavior in 2006? Of course not. Does it change the fact that when they played, they did their thing at least nominally within the rules of the game? Nope. Doesn't change that one bit. You can't legislate right and wrong. That's why the rulebooks are so thick, and why they get rewritten all the time.
*Barry(asterisk) Bonds*.....nuff said
To be honest, I am so happy for the game of baseball that this kind of stuff is coming out, barry bonds is the worst thing to ever happen to the game, and its just shameful what he's done to it........... I'll never forget arguing with a guy named grum@work on this site who was supporting bonds and his steriod case to me, I love being vindicated, and to the million people I've argued with about this, today I got it. I love baseball and Im just so happy these kind of solid facts could come out about the case, so people could really grasp what this guy was doing.
the worst thing that ever happened to the game? Like, as in worse than the Black Sox scandal, or worse than a mid-season strike in '94 that resulted in no playoffs or world series for the first time in decades, and embittering fans (fans who ironically came back after the Ripken record and the '98 heroics of McGwire and Sosa)?
The source material looks pretty solid. If the Court of Public Opinion needed a clincher to push it over the edge with Bonds, this should do it.
If the single-season home run record was broken on the juice, I'd definitely put this alongside the Black Sox scandal, the White Sox wearing shorts and the institution of the designated hitter as the worst events in baseball history.
from the article: Bell retained answering machine recordings of him after he threatened to kill her, remarking that if she disappeared no one would be able to prove he even knew her. d'oh!
i concur w/ rcade.
The thing that stands out the most to me and a lot of the people I,ve discussed the Bonds issue is that Barry represents now in a lot of people eyes. The thing that over the years that most of us can't stand in another human being. I don't care if it's an athelete or a freind or family member. The felling of betrayal. I can forgive someone who says I'm sorry I made a mistake. I can't forgive them until they ask for it.
Not a Barry fan, but he put the bat on the ball. Last time I checked steroids don't increase vision.
Not a Barry fan, but he put the bat on the ball. Last time I checked steroids don't increase vision. nope. just durability, recovery and power, i guess.
First, I don't think Bonds should ever make it in the Hall Of Fame. Second, It's going to be a shame that he's going to break the home run record and it's going to stand even though we all know he had help using the roids.
"Not a Barry fan, but he put the bat on the ball. Last time I checked steroids don't increase vision." posted by tlach at 8:45 PM CST on March 7 It's funny, you didnt even take the time to read the whole article I guess, Bonds clearly notes that he even felt his vision had become noticibly more perceptive.
"The book said Anderson and Bonds subsequently tweaked the program, adding such drugs as the steroid Deca-Durabolin and growth hormone, which allowed Bonds to retain his energy and physique without rigorous training. Not only did the growth hormone keep him fresh, but after complaining in 1999 about difficulty tracking pitches, he noticed it improved his eyesight as well." -And back to me having a great day.....
True, but if you don't get wood on the ball, it doesn't matter how much power you have.
me: Conte was happy to talk about Marion Jones and Tim Montgomery to anybody who would listen; but he backed away from Bonds. irunfromclones: Because Jones and Montgomery were track stars not widely known outside their sport. Even if you don't watch baseball, you still know who barry bonds is. Well, that's kind of my point. Conte went on 60 Minutes after his lawyers told him not to -- he was still under investigation, remember -- and for what reason? Perhaps the guy likes to see his own name in the papers? Enjoyed letting everybody know that he was the reason for Jones' and Montgomery's world records? The advertisements for the 60 Minutes interview all hyped up the connection between BALCO and Bonds, but then I watched it and Conte only implicated Anderson. At the time I thought "well, that's good news for Barry, because if Conte had anything on him he obviously would have used it." What could possibly have made a bigger splash than telling the world that he saw Barry Bonds shooting up? So why didn't he do it? I'm not saying that as in "Bonds must be innocent because Victor Conte is a liar." There's enough other stuff here (including testimony from Conte's VP) to convince me, actually. But I don't understand why Conte, of all people, would hold back from telling the world that he was the secret to Barry's success.
Gregy what he says and scientific data says are two different things. His so called ability to track the ball better was probably mentally induced and no effect to the drug. And on a separate note to nullify his records would be the equivalent to ex post facto. It wasn't a crime, by mlb standards, at the time of the act. Meaning it would be unjust to punish him now.
If there is no rule against it, it is not cheating!!!!!!!!!!!!! If somebody wants to pursue this through the legal system that is another matter. Anyone wanting to change the record book had better stop and look up the defininition of cheating.
You can rest assured that baseball will not negate any individual record based on any wrong doing. Period. As an aside: There never was an official asterick for Marris. There was no official record book in 1962. I've never believed baseball records should be judged for the whole history of major league baseball. The game of 1910 is drastically different than the game today. Let's just look at records as being a part of an era. Barry Bonds: Most Home Runs Season (Juiced Up Super Freaks Era) 73 Roger Marris: Most Home Runs Season (Yankees At the End of Their Big Run Era) 61 There you go.
Why is this such big news to us? No one is surprised. This is the straw that broke the frigging camel's back. Everyone knows this already. The only question I really think that matters is: Do you think steriods made Bonds the pure hitting machine he is? I mean, a lot of these other guys were on steriods and...
well Greg, it sounds good, but if you'll join us in reality. Unless BB is an optometrist then his testimony on his eyesight is an opinion. Not A FACT. Unless you have testimony from an optometrist, who examined BB prior to him taking roids and while he was on steroids stating there was an increase in his vision, then you don't actually have proof his eyesight was better.
"Not a Barry fan, but he put the bat on the ball. Last time I checked steroids don't increase vision." posted by tlach at 8:45 PM CST on March 7 It's funny, you didnt even take the time to read the whole article I guess, Bonds clearly notes that he even felt his vision had become noticibly more perceptive. posted by gregy606 at 9:20 PM CST on March 7 "The book said Anderson and Bonds subsequently tweaked the program, adding such drugs as the steroid Deca-Durabolin and growth hormone, which allowed Bonds to retain his energy and physique without rigorous training. Not only did the growth hormone keep him fresh, but after complaining in 1999 about difficulty tracking pitches, he noticed it improved his eyesight as well."-SI article posted by gregy606 - Be my guest and agree with him Grrlacher, Im just gonna go ahead and put your name next to his argument so you guys can get the proper recognition...
I'll never forget arguing with a guy named grum@work on this site who was supporting bonds and his steriod case to me, I love being vindicated, Hey, still here! I wasn't the one that disappeared for 5 months after making this statement on September 23rd: hate to say i told ya so to everyone in sportsfilter, but i've been saying all year that the indians are one of the best, and most well rounded teams in baseball. And like i said the twins and whitesox were way overrated I mean, you didn't comment again until the first week of March. It's almost like, I don't know, you were embarrassed to be so wrong. I'm glad you are back however, and have decided to use capitalization in your sentences this time. But as for being "vindicated", I'm not sure where you get that from. You spouted some nonsense about Bonds and steroids and his stats, I ripped apart your arguments with facts and figures, and then you slinked away. However, if you get some great joy out of thinking you are a be
