Giants Win Superbowl!:
posted by Joey Michaels to football at 09:07 PM - 275 comments
One hell of a game. Congrats to the Giants.
posted by BoKnows at 09:09 PM on February 03
Well the Dolphins can breathe now. Its like I said earlier this year, it doesn't matter what your record is up to the superbowl, cause if you don't win it all, it doesn't mean a thing.
posted by ok5561 at 09:11 PM on February 03
Amazing game! The play that stands out is that 4th and 10+ the Pats went for when they could have gone for a FG. The score would be 17-17 if they made it. Obviously, that assume he makes the FG and everything else plays out the same, but hey, hindsight's 20/20! And Eli's drive to take the lead. Damnnnnn. That was supposed to be Payton or Brady making that drive- not the maligned Eli. That's a drive I'll remember for a while.
posted by jmd82 at 09:11 PM on February 03
Eli has arrived, gutsy, heads up football by a underdog quarterback and team. Congrats to Patriots for super season and memorable Super Bowl.
posted by Nakeman at 09:12 PM on February 03
That use-my-helmet catch by Tyree was the play of the game.
posted by aerotive at 09:13 PM on February 03
Despite being a Dolphins fan I was rooting for the Pats, because I always pull for the AFC, but when I saw Manning escape three guys who had handfuls of his jersey and then throw a pass that Tyree caught with one hand and his helmet I knew something special was about to happen. A great game and I enjoyed it all. Congratulations to the Giants - doing it the hard way all year long.
posted by Mr Bismarck at 09:14 PM on February 03
Brady's drive to pull ahead 14-10 was a monster, I really started to have my doubts at that point. But after Peyton hit a few clutch passes, The G-men's victory started to feel inevitable. Glad that the winner went to Burress, who was mostly hobble and invisible all game long. They could not have gotten this far without him. I think mostly, this victory was about the Giants' defensive preparation. They were almost perfect, save the Patriots' first and (second to) last possessions.
posted by psmealey at 09:16 PM on February 03
Carl is gonna be happy.
posted by catfish at 09:17 PM on February 03
Got to figure, Manning has gone through Roma, Favre and Brady to win this ring. He earns a lot of respect here. I was sad to see the Patriots lose, but Manning and his team really did a remarkable thing this post season. Congratulations to them!
posted by Joey Michaels at 09:21 PM on February 03
The best season in NFL history was just knocked off by one of the best Super Bowls. Eli Manning's escape and pass to David Tyree goes right up there with The Catch as one of the great plays of all time. What a stunner.
posted by rcade at 09:23 PM on February 03
That use-my-helmet catch by Tyree was the play of the game. Agreed. Particularly at such a critical point in the game, he did everything he could to come down with the ball any way he could. That play more or less symbolized the team's overall effort: unexpected, unlikely and all about heart.
posted by psmealey at 09:25 PM on February 03
I thought the turning point was going to be the 12 men on the field challenge call on the punt that gave the Pats a first down. It just seemed fated that that drive would end in a touchdown. Shades of Marty McSorley's stick in the 1993 Stanley Cup Finals. But the Giants weathered that one. Very entertaining game in the 4th quarter (at least for those of us without a strong rooting interest).
posted by holden at 09:27 PM on February 03
I thought the MVP went to the wrong side of the ball. Someone, Tuck maybe, from the defense should have won it.
posted by apoch at 09:28 PM on February 03
" I need more confetti" - David Tyree
posted by catfish at 09:29 PM on February 03
looks like plaxico was right on when he said their defense would hold the mighty pats to only 17 points. amazing game.
posted by jlh0837 at 09:31 PM on February 03
I was surprised to see Eli take the MVP - two fourth quarter touchdowns is the sort of strong finish that pushes you to the front of the voter's minds. I guess you can't give the award to "The Giants Pass Rush" though.
posted by Mr Bismarck at 09:31 PM on February 03
It was classic watching Bill B. leave the field before the game was over. Down go the Pats. Wow.
posted by Prophite at 09:33 PM on February 03
Evil is vanquished.
posted by THX-1138 at 09:36 PM on February 03
Tiki Barber..... where are you?
posted by bigrotty at 09:37 PM on February 03
but when I saw Manning escape three guys who had handfuls of his jersey and then throw a pass that Tyree caught with one hand and his helmet I knew something special was about to happen. That was a special play (and the second time Manning escaped from a sure sack - the first time he "overthrew" Burress). As good as that play was, I think the story of the game was the Giant's D-Line overpowering a superlative Pats O-line. And just points out how important that O-line has been all season long.
posted by cjets at 09:39 PM on February 03
I should have watched Puppy Bowl.
posted by jerseygirl at 09:40 PM on February 03
Was not impressed with Belichick's after game interview. What's his problem?
posted by Nakeman at 09:45 PM on February 03
2 months ago I told my wife a (NY'er) that the Giants would never win the Super Bowl with Howdy Doody at QB. Sometimes it feels good to be wrong. Great job, Giants. What a great job and you gits deserve it. What a game.
posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 09:45 PM on February 03
Well, so much as for the best dynasty, best team in the history of the league, etc.... It is all for naught. The G-men showed how they outperformed the playoff teams in the NFC, by DEFENSE. The did it to Garcia, Romo, Farve, and now Brady. No QB likes to get hit that much. I wonder now if they will qustion Tom Brady for the boot and flowers. Or for having a hot girlfriend as being too big of a distraction? Rule # 11 - we don't need no celbrity QB's. Congrats to the Giants.
posted by Mickster at 09:46 PM on February 03
Best Super Bowl I've ever seen.
posted by dusted at 09:49 PM on February 03
First of all this had to be the best superbowl of all time. Eli Manning did the impossible and the play that stood out in the whole game was when he escaped the grasp of 3 or 4 Pats defenders trying to sack him. If the Patriots sacked him then, I believe they could have won because that was a huge completion that Eli threw. Anyway, the Giants D and Eli Manning showed a lot of heart and they deserved to win. In the future, I will not be rooting for the Patriots and Brady any more because they had a chance to be the greatest team of all time and they couldn't pull it off. My favourite team is the Ravens so it doesn't even matter. Last year, Peyton and this year Eli win the Super Bowl. Who's going to be next for the Mannings their children?
posted by Scars at 09:52 PM on February 03
Way to go Giants!! It was an amazing 4th quarter and I thought that the Pats had the win! And Tyree's amazing helmet catch! Wow! Great Giant defense - just a good game all around.
posted by lil'red at 09:52 PM on February 03
It was classic watching Bill B. leave the field before the game was over. Down go the Pats. Wow. Classic. Didn't watch the post game - did he actually even face the media and congratulate his opponents ?
posted by cixelsyd at 09:55 PM on February 03
Brady's drive to pull ahead 14-10 was a monster, I really started to have my doubts at that point You and me both. I threw my beer at the TV and turned it off. I am ashamed to admit I bailed on Eli at the last few minutes. My son turned it back on to watch "House" and I went crazy!! Eli getting the MVP was cool, back to back Manning MVPS who would have thought! The Giants defense was wonderful though! That wasn't a game that was a war! The Patriots have nothing to be ashamed of, they had a great season.
posted by steelergirl at 09:57 PM on February 03
bigrotty said: Tiki Barber..... where are you?
rcade said: What a stunner.
posted by geekyguy at 10:00 PM on February 03
posted by catfish at 10:02 PM on February 03
I thought the G-Men had lost it when they utterly abandoned the blitz on the 2nd Half NE touchdown drive. Then Manning made his move, and the G-Men held out. Congrats to the New York Giants.
posted by Bonkers at 10:03 PM on February 03
Fantastic game and a terrific upset. Sucks. did he actually even face the media and congratulate his opponents No, of course not. He's a complete monster and horrible person.
posted by yerfatma at 10:03 PM on February 03
Belicheat, Belichoke, Beligone ....
posted by cixelsyd at 10:06 PM on February 03
did he actually even face the media and congratulate his opponents Yes, a reporter did catch up with him. Lasted all of 15 seconds. Said he was disappointed. That's about all I can remember.
posted by Nakeman at 10:11 PM on February 03
I can die happy now!!! What a game!!! Im glad my dad got to see that one... Couldnt be happier... What a game!! Did I say that already??? Oh well... What a game!~
posted by firecop at 10:19 PM on February 03
Three Pro Bowlers on the Patriots offensive line and still Brady was pressured as he seldom has been before. Congratulations to the NY Giants and fans. Best suspense movie I'll see all year, I expect. Now that the perfect season spell is broken the other big statistic to focus on: New York Giants winners of eleven consecutive road games.
posted by Newbie Walker at 10:19 PM on February 03
bigrotty said: Tiki Barber..... where are you? He is stinking up The Today Show. The best part of not having cable is that I am no longer subjected to his move into journalism. Here he is discussing how he is still a Giant. Tiki Barber is now the poster child for addition by subtraction. Subtract Tiki Barber. Add Super Bowl Ring.
posted by cjets at 10:20 PM on February 03
Having been a Giants fan since the Joe Pisarcik days, the '86 victory was thrilling, the '91 victory was surprising, but this one was enormously satisfying.
posted by psmealey at 10:26 PM on February 03
Awesome game. One of the best ever. The last quarter and the last drive by the Giants was incredible. I can't wait to read the "Sports Guy" react to this this week. These type of games are why all of us on this site are passionaite about sports.
posted by erkno11 at 10:28 PM on February 03
Congratulations Giants and Giants fans! That was quite a finish. I think Plaxico has a great career as a prognosticator ahead of him...
posted by Venicemenace at 10:29 PM on February 03
Congrats to the Giants. It seems they were the first team that actually THOUGHT they could outplay the Patriots' offensive line and made that their game plan, blitzes and all. It proves that no position or unit is invincable to an all-out winner-takes-all challenge...which is the only thing that won it for the gritty Giants. Like the Good Book says, "Let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. It was good to see good football beat up by better football. I enjoyed the cameras staying on Brady during his whimpy little sideline pouts and rants.
posted by JayLBird at 10:32 PM on February 03
Was not impressed with Belichick's after game interview. What's his problem? Maybe that he just lost a game the world expected them to win? He was pissed. did he actually even face the media and congratulate his opponents Yes, he fought through the crowd to congratulate Coughlan.
posted by jmd82 at 10:38 PM on February 03
I read in several places that the "fast track" in Arizona would benefit the Patriots' offense. Looks like it really helped members of the Giants D-line (who really didn't seem to get much traction on the field in Green Bay two weeks ago) as much or more. As a total unrelated aside: Does anybody else see bigrotty's screen name and read "bigotry"? Of course, this is coming from the guy who reads budman13's posts in his head in the voice of Duffman for no good reason, so take it with a grain of salt.
posted by holden at 10:41 PM on February 03
I was rooting for the Pats until the talk about the tape of the Ram's pre-game walk-through surfaced.
posted by mick at 10:45 PM on February 03
Now that's funny holden because when I write them I'm doing his voice in my head too....Oh no...Duffman can't breath. Great game. Eli escaping and Tyree making that catch was amazing. Gotta love that Giant pass rush too.
posted by budman13 at 10:50 PM on February 03
Now that's funny holden because when I write them I'm doing his voice in my head too....Oh no...Duffman can't breath. budman13 -- it's all good because we're both Cards fans right? Maybe you could see about taking over for Fredbird as official mascot. But then I would have to read my two year-old son "Hello, Budman," instead of his current favorite picture book "Hello, Fredbird" (pretty awful, but "written" by Ozzie Smith, for what that's worth). And that's a conversation I'm not sure I'm ready to have yet.
posted by holden at 10:56 PM on February 03
On the NFL Network, Osi Umenyiora of the Giants just said, "18-and-1 -- let them go trademark that." Sweet.
posted by rcade at 11:07 PM on February 03
18-1 is impressive, but who cares? The Patriots are known for being the victims of one of the biggest upsets of Super Bowl history. That's all they'll be remembered for now. Congratulations, Giants. You earned this one; enjoy it.
posted by NerfballPro at 11:12 PM on February 03
Wow. Just...wow. I was finally getting used to the fact that the Giants were actually in the Super Bowl and now this. Behold the power of the billboard.
posted by goddam at 11:20 PM on February 03
When BB was begging for a 1st down via a replay challenge to determine if the 12th man on the field was either, in the air or he still had 1 foot in the field of play, I saw the foundation cracking.
posted by Prophite at 12:00 AM on February 04
two comments: -Bill B walking off the field with 1 sec left on the clock is one of the most gutless things I have ever seen in sports. I have seen players do it but never a coach. Burn in hell Bill. - I watched Archie Manning play for the Saints for a number of years. He got his ass kicked for some of the worst team ever put together in NFL history. Archie was one of the best QBs ever to play that noone ever noticed. Truly what goes around comes around.
posted by whodat at 12:27 AM on February 04
excellent game, go g men. if they cheated, if they just did not deserve it, it is over, their dynasty, their season, their bid for perfection. Don Shula, sleep well tonight, God knows what amazing thing you did, and that is why the anvil fell on NE tonight. Sleep well, my friend.
posted by SFValley_Dude at 12:56 AM on February 04
One of the best Super Bowls. Too many "stories within a story" to go into but everything played out in grand fashion. Kudos to both teams for fantastic seasons and hats off to Eli for not letting the naysayers get to him. Now all he needs is a supermodel girlfriend.
posted by sandskater at 01:11 AM on February 04
I sat in seat 15, row 10, section 118. Plaxico caught the winner right in my face. It was brutal to watch as a Pats fan. From the stadium, we couldn't tell that BB left early. That really stinks if it's true. (I'm a Pats fan but will easily admit that BB isn't exactly lovable.) When the Pats went ahead 14-10, I turned to the guy next to me and said, "They left too much time on the clock." Ugh.
posted by GatorDavid at 01:46 AM on February 04
Bill B walking off the field with 1 sec left on the clock is one of the most gutless things I have ever seen in sports. I have seen players do it but never a coach. Burn in hell Bill. Doesn't even rank in the top 10. Number 1 is the Detroit Pistons "bad boys" (Thomas, Laimbeer, Vinnie Johnson etal) sulking off the court and into the locker room with like a minute and a half left in the blowout that was the fourth game sweep in the playoffs by Jordan's ascendant Bulls in 1991. They wouldn't even look at the Bulls bench, let alone congratulate them after the Bulls had tried for years to beat the Pistons in the playoffs. Isiah Thomas has the least class of any sports figure in American sports. Congratulations to the Giants.
posted by sic at 03:18 AM on February 04
Whatever top ten, Bad boys, subject change. Watching Bill leave regardless of how many people tried to tell him there was 1 second and the NFL said they had to play it off the clock was the bottom of the barrel, I'm taking my ball and going home type crap. How many times during the season would it have been acceptable or at least understandable, for entire teams to walk off with time on the clock while the Pats were busy worrying about running up scores and setting records. Nobody walked off even while that scrub Gaffney danced around like a complete idiot. Bill didn't want to see the Giants take a knee to beat them for all the marbles. He wanted his head in the sand. He was completely embarrassed and it was priceless. Kudos to the Pats fans with the class to come here and say congratulations. To the others who went on and on, paragraph after paragraph about how it's going to feel to be perfect and haven't shown up to at least say good game, I say, take a good look at the real Pats team without any lucky breaks. Greatest team ever? Greatest Dynasty ever? Hardly. In reality no better than the 5th seed wild card team from the NFC in 07-08. The ending to this Superbowl was Perfect in my opinion.
posted by Prophite at 05:46 AM on February 04
Who's going to be next for the Mannings their children? Shemp Manning, the lesser known Manning who decided not to get into football because he was really sold on Extreme Long Division as a big upcoming 'sport' in the US. He's not very coordinated and is deemed legally blind in 27 states (and Puerto Rico) but the AP reports that he was signed by the Falcons late last night.
posted by jerseygirl at 05:59 AM on February 04
Prophite, take it easy. There hasn't been a Pats fan in this thread who was diminishing anything the Giants did. As far as these random people who haven't showed up yet to say good game, it's barely been 10 hours since the game ended. I really doubt people's first inclination after the game was, "I need to go say congrats to Giant fans on a website like RIGHT NOW!" Pitchers and catchers report in 11 days, 5 hours. Squee.
posted by jerseygirl at 06:11 AM on February 04
I really doubt people's first inclination after the game was, "I need to go say congrats to Giant fans on a website like RIGHT NOW!" Sorry, I thought everyone was as naturally punctual as yourself. That said, I can't help but get the feeling there would have been a server crash with at least 10 Pats fans posting a thread titled Perfect! all at once. Know what I mean? You should also cut me a little slack, this is the first time all season I've been able to take a legit jab at the Pats or their fans for losing.
posted by Prophite at 06:25 AM on February 04
Ok, congrats to the Jints,er....Giants on winning the Super Bowl. Can we now talk about baseball?
posted by BornIcon at 06:38 AM on February 04
That said, I can't help but get the feeling there would have been a server crash with at least 10 Pats fans posting a thread titled Perfect! all at once. Know what I mean? I don't know if we even have 10 die hard Patriots fans that have front page posting privileges, now that I think of it. But generally, we try not to be that kind of site. If I were to guess, the people you ran into previously were probably drive-by commenters and not invested members of the site. Also, for a twist of irony, poster of this thread Joey Michaels is actually a big Patriots fan.
posted by jerseygirl at 06:57 AM on February 04
You should also cut me a little slack, this is the first time all season I've been able to take a legit jab at the Pats or their fans for losing. I can understand the emotion, but this is a comeuppance that hits so hard unborn Patriots fan grandchildren will know the pang of loss. They were one defensive stand from a perfect season and a legitimate claim to greatest-team-of-all-time boasting.
posted by rcade at 07:14 AM on February 04
this is a comeuppance that hits so hard unborn Patriots fan grandchildren will know the pang of loss Word. It's not even the loss, because there's nothing to complain about, they got outplayed and beat. It's that we now have to listen to the Schadenfrued Brigade. I get the feeling Rod Woodson woke up beaming this morning after spending yesterday arguing Brady was an average QB in a lucky situation. Because he sure looked it yesterday against the Giants relentless pressure. As for Belichick walking off the field, poor sportsmanship is certainly one way to look at it. As a complete homer Pats fan, I saw it as a guy looking at a field covered in media and fans and accepting they got beat. It's not like he ran straight to the dressing room. But of course that doesn't fit the popular narrative, so have at him.
posted by yerfatma at 07:46 AM on February 04
I actually found the Giants a very likeable team this season, and Tiki being gone had a lot to do with it. Shockey not being on the field helped, too (looked like he was up in that box drinking beer, mixed drinks, and wine all at once). The team played absolutely great throughout the playoffs, and their defense yesterday was incredible. I go back to what someone said about the Giants a few weeks ago, that Manning became a better QB when Shockey went down with injury. Their reason for saying this is because they believed Manning was so worried about getting balls to Shockey, and not having him be unhappy, that when that was no longer a concern he led the offense much more effectively. It's weird how things work out sometimes. Now, unfortunatley, does start the dark season for sports (until college hoop tourneys). It would be great if the Super Bowl ended and Spring Training began the following morning.
posted by dyams at 07:57 AM on February 04
The tone was set on the first play when the Giants rushed through and knocked Brady down. The Giants defense played the game of their lives last night. Even though they were gassed in the 4th quarter, they made life tough on Brady. I kept watching the game thinking New England would throw it into gear and start scoring points but the Giants defense held their ground. It was a game where you couldn't take your eyes off what was going on. A very good game and one of the best Super Bowls in a long long time. Congrats to Eli and the Giants for slaying the dragon.
posted by dbt302 at 07:57 AM on February 04
A couple of questions for me - why was Moss singled with no inside help on his touchdown shortly after he'd eaten his corner alive on the other side only for Brady to make a bad throw and then why was Plax singled with no help on the winning throw? The guy is practically built for the fade pattern and now you come with the full blitz and leave him one on one with the 5'9" Ellis Hobbs?
posted by Mr Bismarck at 08:24 AM on February 04
My thoughts from yesterday's game: If I was giving out the MVP, it would have gone to the Giants' defensive line. Manning had a nice game and made some great plays to win the game in the 4th quarter, but the pressure up front in Brady's face all night is the reason they were in it in the first place. They were incredible. The challenge on the 12 men on the field call was the turning point in the game. The call may have been technically correct when corrected, and the Patriots may have won that, but challenging such a minute thing regarding a player who had no impact in the play was so bush league that it killed their karma. Oh, and the referee's "After further review *drops flag*, the Giants had 12 men on the field," was classic. I don't have a problem with Belichick running up the tunnel at the end. He congratulated Coughlin. He may have not even realized that the game was over. Or he may have. I do think in that situation that the losing coach should be able to concede the last couple seconds if he wants. Great game.
posted by bender at 08:48 AM on February 04
First of all this had to be the best superbowl of all time. Uh, no. For 3 quarters, it was a bit of a snoozer. Sure, that final quarter can go down in history as a legendary period of time, but overall it's not even close to the best Super Bowl ever. There have been other 4th quarters that were very exciting (Giants vs Bills, 49ers vs Bengals, Patriots vs Rams, etc), but they also had excitement in the first 3 quarters as well. 10 points after 3 quarters of play? That isn't very entertaining. The call may have been technically correct when corrected, and the Patriots may have won that, but challenging such a minute thing regarding a player who had no impact in the play was so bush league that it killed their karma. Other coaches have done the very same thing this season, and no one got on their case for being "bush league". I see it as the opposite: it's a professional and strategic play by the Patriots. Teams that notice the small things tend to win more often.
posted by grum@work at 08:52 AM on February 04
That said, I can't help but get the feeling there would have been a server crash with at least 10 Pats fans posting a thread titled Perfect! all at once. Know what I mean? You should also cut me a little slack, this is the first time all season I've been able to take a legit jab at the Pats or their fans for losing. Comment icon posted by Prophite at 6:25 AM CST on February 4 I've heard of being bitter in defeat, but bitter in victory? That's a new one.
posted by sic at 08:58 AM on February 04
I see it as the opposite: it's a professional and strategic play by the Patriots. Teams that notice the small things tend to win more often. I agree, but I think the rule sucks. The refs should be able to call it like too many men in hockey -- if the guy is clearly headed to the sideline and having no impact on the play, no flag. I hate it when Peyton (and others, but he's the prime offender) rush to the line to snap the ball just to catch some breathless fat lineman a few steps short of the sideline. It's cheap. It's unsportsmanlike. But yeah, the rule is there, so good on the Pats for taking advantage. No argument there.
posted by fabulon7 at 09:01 AM on February 04
10 points after 3 quarters of play? That isn't very entertaining. I thought the game was compelling; although as a football fan first and an American football fan second my entertainment isn't tied to the amount scoring. I was fascinated by the constant effort of the Giants defence to ensure the Patriots didn't run away while their own offence was struggling.
posted by Mr Bismarck at 09:04 AM on February 04
I am one of the biggest Belichick haters there is and I still think he is getting a bad rap here for leaving early. He had thought the clock was going to tick off, he'd already congratulated Coughlin. He went to the locker room and let the Giants celebrate. Also, I just saw some of the post-game interviews with the players and I am very impressed with the classy way the Patriots' players handled themselves. Congrats to the Giants fans here, and condolences to the Patriots' fans.
posted by scully at 09:06 AM on February 04
10 points after 3 quarters of play? That isn't very entertaining. If entertainment equates to points scored then yeah it was a snoozer. Most people were crediting the Week 17 game as the best of the season and despite it being the polar opposite offensively the Super Bowl was as entertaining of a game for me. was so bush league that it killed their karma Karma? How free-spirited of you. I figured some Patriots fan must have shifted in their seat the wrong way to seal the final score. It's cheap. It's unsportsmanlike. Except when it works out for my team though, right? C'mon. There are easier ways to hate on someone.
posted by YukonGold at 09:07 AM on February 04
10 points after 3 quarters of play? That isn't very entertaining. Perhaps it's just the homer in me, but watching the greatest offense of all-time get shut down for 3 quarters was very entertaining. And it was equally as frustrating seeing the Giants unable to do anything either. I thought it was a great game through and through, no matter what the score. But to each their own I guess.
posted by goddam at 09:10 AM on February 04
I thought the G-Men had lost it when they utterly abandoned the blitz on the 2nd Half NE touchdown drive. Then Manning made his move, and the G-Men held out. They didn't abandon the blitz that drive...Brady just got rid of the ball early that drive because the Giants forgot to cover the quick underneath stuff. The blitzes were coming, they just never got there Tiki Barber is now the poster child for addition by subtraction. This team went to the SB with Tiki. If last years Giants would have got the QB play of THIS years Giants, they could have won the SB too. The difference in the Giants this year isn't "addition by subtraction" by losing Tiki....It's the performance of their QB down the stretch (which they didn't have the past few years) Yes, he fought through the crowd to congratulate Coughlan. Hugged him actually, which was nice. Seems to respect him. 10 points after 3 quarters of play? That isn't very entertaining. It is for people who appreciate defensive struggles (just like some people prefer 1-0 pitchers duals to 10-8 slugfests). I happen to prefer them like this actually. The call may have been technically correct when corrected, and the Patriots may have won that, but challenging such a minute thing regarding a player who had no impact in the play was so bush league that it killed their karma. Crazy. He wants to WIN the game and it was an ILLEGAL play (thus the flag). I didn't realize you could challenge it, but given you can there isn't a coach in the NFL, had they recognized it, wouldn't have made the same call.
posted by bdaddy at 09:11 AM on February 04
I am one of the biggest Belichick haters there is and I still think he is getting a bad rap here for leaving early. He had thought the clock was going to tick off, he'd already congratulated Coughlin. He went to the locker room and let the Giants celebrate. Same here. He even said some words to the official during all this that I though was more or less saying "they win, just wind the clock". That is against the rules for some reason so they needed that last snap.
posted by bdaddy at 09:13 AM on February 04
Petty was the best halftime act ever.
posted by garfield at 09:16 AM on February 04
Other coaches have done the very same thing this season, and no one got on their case for being "bush league". I see it as the opposite: it's a professional and strategic play by the Patriots. Teams that notice the small things tend to win more often. I've watched a lot of football, and I've never seen a challenge for something like this before. I didn't even realize that it could be challenged. 10 points after 3 quarters of play? That isn't very entertaining. I'm with several of those above. A game doesn't have to have a lot of points to be exciting or entertaining.
posted by bender at 09:20 AM on February 04
Re: Belichick leaving early, I don't think it's quite the sin that some are making it out to be. But if his players had to stay out on the field for the last snap, then I think he should have too. I understand that he was upset and all, but I don't think he should have left his players out there.
posted by goddam at 09:28 AM on February 04
my thaughts on the game: First off, congrats to the g-men. it would be easy to say that the pats choked. they didnt. the giants put tom brady on his ass over and over and over. They kept pressure on him all night. That is how they kept it close in week 17, and that is how they won tonight. They earned it. Second, i am supreamly disappointed at the fact that i didnt get to see a perfect season. Im not a pats fan, but i do like them, and did want to see perfection for once in my life-time. Third: Petty was the best halftime act ever. Are you on crack? I love petty, but that was one of the worst halftime shows ever. I said the same thing about this as i said about mccartny:"if it werent that everybody knew it was petty, it would just be an old guy playin' music. Aerosmith put on a show so great that Nsync, and brittany spears couldnt ruin it! (XXXV) U2 made millions of people around the world cry (XXXVI). There have been some great halftime performances, but getting musicians in their 60's to play is just not good enough. they might as well dust off joe montana and dan marino to play QB in the game. I blame janet jackson for this. As nice as it was to see boobie during the game, she forced the nfl to suck the life out of the halftime show from that point on. OK im done ranting now. so its a couple of insufferable months of tollerating basketball then on to baseball.
posted by elijahin24 at 09:44 AM on February 04
As a lifelong Giants fan, it still hasn't hit me. We won????? Good lord. Has to be one of the most memorable non-family events of my life. Whoah!
posted by BCHockey at 09:44 AM on February 04
There have been some great halftime performances, but getting musicians in their 60's to play is just not good enough. Give me a great marching band from a big university any time. I love music, classic rock to newer stuff, but this is football. A throwback halftime event is much better than some old act with a bunch of clowns running on the field to act like some mosh pit for yuppies. I always wind up feeling a bit embarrassed for these halftime acts they manage to bring in, even when they're legends.
posted by dyams at 09:50 AM on February 04
Why did the clock continue to run after Brady threw the final incompletion? There were at least four seconds on the game clock and it ran down to one after the play was clearly over.
posted by ajaffe at 09:55 AM on February 04
Two things. 1) I am a huge Pats fan and I posted the Giants win link. 2) Unless I was not paying attention due to extreme emotional duress, I seem to recall that they announcers, at least, had said that 1 second was added back on to the clock. When BB was walking on the field at the end, it was to get to TC. He hugged him, congratulated him and moved on. Not sure what the fuss is.
posted by Joey Michaels at 09:56 AM on February 04
I think coaches should be able to challenge calls the refs make, but not calls they don't. Otherwise they could challenge holding not being called on every play.
posted by kirkaracha at 09:59 AM on February 04
Well, I can die happy now. The Patriots don't get their perfect season, and David Tyree won the MVP award for his first touchdown and his amazing, hand-and-helmet catch on third and long... Almost, anyway. Here is my theory on Eli winning MVP: His name was the easiest to spell. Congratulations to the Giants' defense for holding the NFL's highest scoring offense to a pathetic 14 points. I highly enjoyed seeing Brady's perfect little world come crashing around his ears, made even better by the little "Why me?" faces he was making for most of the second half. Must have been because his girlfriend was watching…
posted by Goyoucolts at 10:03 AM on February 04
I think coaches should be able to challenge calls the refs make, but not calls they don't. Otherwise they could challenge holding not being called on every play. I think Belichick getting clarification on whether he could is testament to how the whole challenge process is built on shaky ground. There are clearly more rules to determine what can and cannot be challenged than anyone can keep straight. I highly enjoyed seeing Brady's perfect little world... Can I get Vegas over/under action on unnecessary schadenfruede comments?
posted by YukonGold at 10:05 AM on February 04
"I think coaches should be able to challenge calls the refs make, but not calls they don't. Otherwise they could challenge holding not being called on every play." You can't challenge holding calls or non calls. Regardless, by every play you mean three plays, at which point they run out of challenges. "I think Belichick getting clarification on whether he could" As I understood it, Belichick was getting clarification about whether being in mid-air but still on (above) the green part of the field counts as on the field. Once the ref's confirmed that being in mid air still counts, he threw his flag. I hope knowing that you can challenge 12 men on the field is common knowledge among head coaches.
posted by Mr Bismarck at 10:08 AM on February 04
It was with great trepidation that this Pats fan opened this thread today. My fears were eased when I saw that the tone was one of congratulations to the Giants rather than mockery of the Patriots. May I add my congratulations to New York for their excellent game plan and courageous execution of same. One of the things about the Giants defense that caught my notice was the delayed rush up the middle. It accounted for a number of the hits on Brady, and even when blocked, it still deprived him of the ability to step forward and throw the deep ball. I'm surprised that New England's coaches didn't foresee this and figure out a counter move. There were a number of other calls on defense that I found strange, especially the all-out blitzing on the last drive. My personal feelings are of deep disappointment. I'm old enough to have lived for the years of Red Sox futility; having had elevated hopes in the few years when they got close, only to be denied. Now it seems to be the Patriots turn in the barrel. I can only think that if the records of the 2 teams had been reversed, that is the Giants at 18 - 0 and Pats at 13 - 6, and the outcome had been the same, Pats fans would have felt really good about their team having played so well and come so close. Alas, the reality is painful. I talked to my son last night, and only half-jokingly told him that his 4th floor dorm window is too low to jump from to kill himself, but too high to avoid injury. He would be better off just to grin and bear the anguish.
posted by Howard_T at 10:17 AM on February 04
The Patriots' being 14-point favorites was ridiculous. The December game was very close, the Giants played better in the playoffs than they did in that game, and the Patriots played worse. Where was Randy Moss in the playoffs?
posted by kirkaracha at 10:21 AM on February 04
You think this thread isn't mocking the Patriots, Howard? I'm going to disagree.
posted by jerseygirl at 10:22 AM on February 04
10 points after 3 quarters of play? That isn't very entertaining. I'm with several of those above. A game doesn't have to have a lot of points to be exciting or entertaining. I'm using the score to indicate a lack of offense. With a lack of offense, you have less chance for lead changes. While the 4th quarter was lead-change-a-riffic, by only having one lead change in the first three quarters is what I meant by not "entertaining". I don't mind a titanic defensive struggle, but it wasn't like the defenses were making goalline stands or end-zone interceptions. I'm old enough to have lived for the years of Red Sox futility; having had elevated hopes in the few years when they got close, only to be denied. Now it seems to be the Patriots turn in the barrel. Only small offense intended with the comment, but give me a break. Three SuperBowls in the last 7 years is not something you can compare to the lean years of the Red Sox and close-but-no-cigar futility. Sure, immortality with a perfect record would have been nice, but it isn't the same pain as "1975, 1986, 2003" for the Red Sox. Where was Randy Moss in the playoffs? From what I heard, being buried alive by double coverage. There is a reason that Welker set the SuperBowl record for receptions, and after that happened, Moss was finally left with single coverage in the end zone for the touchdown.
posted by grum@work at 10:23 AM on February 04
Another thing I realized after this game: since University of Phoenix Stadium opened and began hosting significant neutral site football games last season, the heavy underdog is 4-0. Boise State over Oklahoma Florida over Ohio State West Virginia over Oklahoma Giants over Patriots Not saying those events are related, but at least an interesting coincidence.
posted by bender at 10:24 AM on February 04
10 points after 3 quarters of play? That isn't very entertaining. It is for people who appreciate defensive struggles (just like some people prefer 1-0 pitchers duals to 10-8 slugfests). I happen to prefer them like this actually. I definitely prefer pitchers' duels to slugfests. However, more often than not, in the NFL, that score after 3 quarters is less indicative of sterling defense and more indicative of the supreme offensive conservatism on the part of the coaching staff that's ruled the league for the past few years—the "any offensive play that doesn't result in a turnover is a victory" attitude. This tends to results in offensives getting more conservative as the game stays close, because not giving up points becomes the primary goal. So for the average NFL game, I wouldn't necessarily assume a 7-3 score to be a defensive spectacle. That said, this wasn't the average NFL game, and the Patriots were a team that ran against that conservative grain this year, so I don't think that assumption would apply this time. As for me, I only managed to catch the last quarter of the game on the radio while on the road, and it was a pretty damn entertaining quarter. When BB was walking on the field at the end, it was to get to TC. He hugged him, congratulated him and moved on. Not sure what the fuss is. The radio commentator I was listening to noted that BB walked off the sideline with a second left on the clock, but explicitly noted that he was headed across the field to congratulate TC.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 10:24 AM on February 04
I'm using the score to indicate a lack of offense. With a lack of offense, you have less chance for lead changes. While the 4th quarter was lead-change-a-riffic, by only having one lead change in the first three quarters is what I meant by not "entertaining". I don't mind a titanic defensive struggle, but it wasn't like the defenses were making goalline stands or end-zone interceptions. I didn't see two lackluster offenses but rather two outstanding defenses. Your last examples are not necessarily indicative of a "titanic defensive struggle" but rather defenses making big plays when they need them. The defenses were so good last night that those opportunities were practically non-existent. I think we're going to just have to agree to disagree here.
posted by bender at 10:30 AM on February 04
Petty was the best halftime act ever. I don't know. Last year's act was pretty hot. (that was my 3000th comment? jeezus.)
posted by chicobangs at 10:57 AM on February 04
I thought the entire game was entertaining. I couldn't believe that New York's D-line kept getting to Brady. We've seen Brady get knocked on his ass more than a few times this year, but his line always seemed to protect him when it mattered most. Even when he was getting the ball out there was a guy coming in at the same time. And I really didn't think Eli could engineer a ballsy game winning drive with 2 minutes left in the superbowl. That really surprised me.
posted by curlyelk at 11:02 AM on February 04
I tend to think the whole gleeful celebrations of the '72 Dolphins are pretty lame, but I saw this video/ad linked elsewhere and thought it was kind of funny.
posted by holden at 11:10 AM on February 04
Perfectville is funny, yes, but I'd be quite happy to see the 72 Dolphins choke on their champagne next year. Seriously guys, you were first. Isn't that enough?
posted by Mr Bismarck at 11:20 AM on February 04
Had the Patriots won it would have been nice to see Mercury Morris and boys take one on the chin. It seems Morris has his entire identity wrapped up in the perfect season 35 years ago.
posted by curlyelk at 11:23 AM on February 04
Just a thought. Maybe next year it will be an Eli/Payton Superbowl. Now that would be somthing. I just don't think it could be a Kitna/Payton game. Good bye Matt. Thank you Giants for a great game. Sorry Pats that you didn't succeed in the perfect season. Everyone will start again in August. Now let's go racin'!!!!!
posted by coach at 11:40 AM on February 04
This team went to the SB with Tiki. If last years Giants would have got the QB play of THIS years Giants, they could have won the SB too. The difference in the Giants this year isn't "addition by subtraction" by losing Tiki....It's the performance of their QB down the stretch (which they didn't have the past few years) Tiki was a negative influence in the Giants locker room last year. He was a divisive force who didn't believe in the Coach and let the rest of the team know it. Oh...and he also announced his retirement mid-season. True, Eli's play was considerably better this year. But the Giants as a team were much less dysfunctional without that loudmouth. I think it made a big difference down the stretch and in the playoffs. Tiki did do them one favor. By badmouthing both Eli and the coach this year, he gave the team something to rally around. Make that loudmouth asshole eat his words. Also, the 2000 team was much different that this team. I believe only Strahan and Amani Toomer remain from that 2000 team.
posted by cjets at 11:47 AM on February 04
You think this thread isn't mocking the Patriots, Howard? I'm going to disagree. Save for a few knucklehead comments and the anti-belichick sentiment it's been pretty above it all. I'll admit I have a hard time with any of that. Being a Giant fan and having an overwhelming number of friends be rooting for "the other guys" was tough. Anyone who wants to make comments of that ilk is disrespecting the game that was. In my seat I was resigned to losing - prepped myself for it all week, was gonna be no big deal. Sitting on the other side it's shock, pure shock. Foregone conclusions don't exist in football. There is no next game. You can't win 4 in a row and battle back from elimination. You have 35 seconds. They may have only scored 31 points combined but I think it was the greatest football game I ever watched.
posted by YukonGold at 12:16 PM on February 04
Dude, prince opened with Queen. I admit, the symbolled one was pretty rockin, but he wasn't no Petty. They managed to create a tripped out concert experience at the sanitized Superbowl. Impressive.
posted by garfield at 12:17 PM on February 04
I must admit, I had AB-SO-LUTE-LY ZERO confidence in Eli when he came out for that final scoring drive, and after he missed Burress on that first 3rd down and got the Dumb Eli look on his face, I figured it was flat-out over. That last Giants drive was amazing to watch, but I don't think Eli deserves nearly the credit he's receiving. The play where he escapes everybody on the Pats' defense was incredible, but if not for a standout play by Tyree, that ball goes two feet above his head. I think the Giants' wide receivers saved Eli's bacon all through the second half, if there could be multiple MVP awards, I'd give 'em to to everybody who caught a ball, and Ahmad Bradshaw, who I thought did a spectacular job for a rookie, in the biggest game of the year. I'm happy to see Strahan and Toomer get their rings, and the Dolphins fan in me is happy that the legacy is intact, but I'm about tired of The Class of 1972 acting like such arrogant, childish pricks. Cut it out, you old farts, you're embarrassing yourselves! Congrats to the Pats and their fans on a spectacular 18-win season (only done 3 times in the NFL, I believe); during the regular season, your boys played professional football at a level very few have been able to attain, or sustain, for that matter. And, congratulations to the Giants and their fans. What an underdog story, and what a great way to end the NFL season. Let's play two!
posted by The_Black_Hand at 12:24 PM on February 04
I like Petty, but his halftime performance was a dud and might even have been lip-synched according to some reviews. I don't think it came close to what Prince did in one of the hardest venues to perform well. As an aside, one of the hottest search terms on Google this morning was "how old is Tom Petty". Ouch.
posted by rcade at 12:28 PM on February 04
My play or lack of a play was the dropped interception by Samuel during that last two minutes. He makes the INT and the game is over. The second play was the Manning escape from the three Pats defensive players. If another defender would have come in and laid a hit on him while he was in their grasp he would have gotten an unnecessary roughness penalty. Thats my perspective. All of that didn't happen so congrats to the Giants.
posted by Ironhead at 12:33 PM on February 04
I'd be shocked if he lip synched. He was behind on the lyrics for a bit of the first song. The anthem on the otherhand was way over mastered to be live. And maybe I'm old, or appreciate a lack of dancers or medleys, or prefer the tightness of Petty, but Prince last year pales in my mind. Or maybe its because Petty is underrated in general and Prince is overrated.
posted by garfield at 12:51 PM on February 04
If another defender would have come in and laid a hit on him while he was in their grasp he would have gotten an unnecessary roughness penalty. Thats my perspective I couldn't disagree more. If the hit was legal, not helmet to helmet and not at his knees, I don't see the refs throwing a flag on the play. You play through the whistle, or at least you're supposed to. It wasn't as though there were several Patriots players prepared to hit him and suddenly made the decision not to for fear of being penalized. He got out of the grasp of the defenders and threw long. Terrific play by Manning, spectacular catch by Tyree.
posted by ampto11 at 12:56 PM on February 04
If another defender would have come in and laid a hit on him while he was in their grasp he would have gotten an unnecessary roughness penalty. The refs would have to blow the whistle first and call the play dead (invoke "in the grasp") in order for an unnecessary roughness penalty to occur. Like ampto11 said, there was no one bearing down on Manning so there was no need to make the "in the grasp" call.
posted by goddam at 01:22 PM on February 04
That wacky play by Eli Manning reminded me of another guy who wore number 10 and played quarterback for the Giants, Fran Tarkenton. 10 points after 3 quarters of play? That isn't very entertaining. The Patriots averaged 36.8 points per game this season, setting the all-time record for points scored, and were 14-point favorites. The Giants' defense was great, but even during the game it was difficult to think they'd be able to hold the Patriots to two touchdowns over the entire game, and the Giants needed to score somehow, some way. It was dramatic. I don't think it came close to what Prince did in one of the hardest venues to perform well. In the rain.
posted by kirkaracha at 01:35 PM on February 04
Belichick's leaving the field before the game was officially over shows that he's nothing but a classless ass. The key to the game was the Giants defensive line. They beat on the league's best ever offense (statistically at least) and shut them down. Plaxico's 17 point prediction that caused Brady to scoff looks pretty prophetic right now.
posted by Shotput at 01:41 PM on February 04
TBH: That last Giants drive was amazing to watch, but I don't think Eli deserves nearly the credit he's receiving. The play where he escapes everybody on the Pats' defense was incredible, but if not for a standout play by Tyree, that ball goes two feet above his head. I think the Giants' wide receivers saved Eli's bacon all through the second half, if there could be multiple MVP awards, I'd give 'em to to everybody who caught a ball, and Ahmad Bradshaw, who I thought did a spectacular job for a rookie, in the biggest game of the year. What you said. That was a desperation pass and an amazing catch. Tyree richly deserves the job security he should have following this Superbowl. Not that I want to take anything away from the Giants' play -- I thought there was a lot of skill, focus, determination and talent on display by the G-men, and a pronounced absence of stupid mistakes. It was a well-earned win. I'm at a loss to explain what happened with the Pats -- it seemed like the o-line, which has received such praise this year, was ordinary (at best) in a game that really called on them to be a whole lot better. I'd call that the single biggest factor.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 01:46 PM on February 04
but I don't think Eli deserves nearly the credit he's receiving. The play where he escapes everybody on the Pats' defense was incredible, but if not for a standout play by Tyree, that ball goes two feet above his head. That was a desperation pass and an amazing catch. Doesn't deserve the credit? Desperation pass? That's what unbelievable plays are made of...desperation. If Manning doesn't escape the throw never happens. If Manning hits him in the numbers David Tyree doesn't use his helmet to fend off Harrison and make his catch. Is it possible to just accept it for what it is? They both deserve credit and the MVP process is clearly screwed up.
posted by YukonGold at 02:06 PM on February 04
Belichick's leaving the field before the game was officially over shows that he's nothing but a classless ass. Yeah, he went and hugged TC with 1 second left on the clock... Of course, one could say that dumping the Gatorade on TC with time left on the clock is a bit presumptuous too, right?
posted by jerseygirl at 02:10 PM on February 04
Uh, no. For 3 quarters, it was a bit of a snoozer. -grum@work I'll be the lone guy in your corner grum. I was reading about what a great superbowl it was on other sites but dismissed it as the clueless opinion of fans that only watch the superbowl. But after this thread it's clear I'm in the minority. Maybe it's because I didn't have a strong rooting interest, but the first three quarters were brutal. Going into the 4th I thought to myself 'yet another letdown of a superbowl'. And I still hold that opinion. I think it was a mediocre game saved by the bigger story (david and goliath), a great ending, and the low bar of excitement set by other superbowls. Other thoughts- - What happened to Randy Moss during the playoffs? Obviously every team wanted to take him away. But wow did he vanish. - Eli as MVP is a mistake. It should have gone to the giant defensive line. - Other than the yankees I don't think I've ever seen a team get as much hatred as the patriots from anyone not their fan. I know there were reasons behind both (salary, cheating) but damn do people love to hate success. - For all the talk of the patriots choking they were within one play several times of taking hold of the game. And if not for the miraculous Eli escape and throw in the 4th quarter the patriots are probably celebrating 19-0. A lot of luck goes into 18-0. They were outplayed by the giants, but also ran out of luck. but challenging such a minute thing regarding a player who had no impact in the play was so bush league that it killed their karma. One, calling it bush league is a joke. Two, karma, really? Are you sure it wasn't brady forgetting to wear his favorite socks? Or maybe a witch doctor put a curse on moss? As an aside, one of the hottest search terms on Google this morning was "how old is Tom Petty". Ouch. Which is funny, because as soon as he appeared on stage I looked his age up online. I'm a tom petty fan, but I have to disagree with garfield. I thought he was decent, but pretty damn boring. I thought prince last year, and I hate on prince a lot, was off the chart better. Lastly from the NY Daily News: And it’s especially sweet as a Yankee fan to know that Red Sox Nation went to bed in tears last night. Mmm, smell the class.
posted by justgary at 02:12 PM on February 04
Red Sox fans != Patriots fans, NY Daily News.
posted by jerseygirl at 02:17 PM on February 04
And it’s especially sweet as a Yankee fan to know that Red Sox Nation went to bed in tears last night. I went to sleep in a big bed with my wife. Also, the Patrick Roy line about having all those rings stuck in various ears.
posted by yerfatma at 02:26 PM on February 04
I read the NY Times myself. I'm interested in everyone's opinion on this. If the Patriots won, they would have been widely regarded as the best team ever. It's a moot point now but by that logic, does this mean the '72 Dolphins are the best team of all time because they went undefeated? I would answer that with a resounding no. I would suggest the '85 Bears or the Niners of the 80's (1984 in particular). I just find it interesting that many people thought 19-0 would have conferred "greatest Team of all time" status but you don't ever hear that about the 1972 dolphins.
posted by cjets at 02:30 PM on February 04
I would answer that with a resounding no. I would suggest the '85 Bears or the Niners of the 80's (1984 in particular). I always thought the consensus on the best Niners team of the 80's was 1989.
posted by holden at 02:33 PM on February 04
One thing's clear: no-one does the sore winner act better than certain sections of NYC and environs. My perspective? Somewhat over-rated team loses perfect record to somewhat lucky bastard team. It does confirm my belief that league and knockout tournaments are best kept apart.
posted by etagloh at 02:34 PM on February 04
I always thought the consensus on the best Niners team of the 80's was 1989. Yup. I googled it and realized that I got the Super Bowl scores reversed. 55-10 against Denver. That's pretty impressive. I'll change my vote to '89.
posted by cjets at 02:41 PM on February 04
He was a divisive force who didn't believe in the Coach and let the rest of the team know it. He told the owner when he left that they should keep Coughlin. He must have believed in him somewhat. Fact is, Tiki has been 100% spot on with all his comments regarding the Giants. He's only issue is he's honest. My play or lack of a play was the dropped interception by Samuel during that last two minutes He wasn't coming down inbounds anyways (both his feet hit out even though he didn't have the ball) The refs would have to blow the whistle first and call the play dead (invoke "in the grasp") in order for an unnecessary roughness penalty to occur. The sad part is, that is probably one of the greatest plays in SB history and it very well could not have happened if the refs had called in the grasp with the strictness they do 90% of the time. I've seen that whistle blown a lot quicker for guys a lot less "wrapped up".
posted by bdaddy at 03:03 PM on February 04
Sorry, Yukon. Didn't mean to offend you, but the truth is the truth. Eli made a boneheaded throw, and you'll never in a million years convince me that he threw it two feet over Tyree's head on purpose, to allow Tyree to use his helmet to shield the ball from Harrison. Never. You'll notice, though, I did say this: The play where he escapes everybody on the Pats' defense was incredible, before I said this: but if not for a standout play by Tyree, that ball goes two feet above his head. I stand by my statement. Eli let fly with a bevy of wounded quail last night, and could have been intercepted at least three times, including one on the right sideline by Asante Samuels during the Giants' last drive that would have sealed the game if he'd been able to bring it down in bounds. Eli's performance was gutly as hell last night, no doubt about it, and he elevated his standings in many fans' eyes, mine included, but he still hasn't shown that he can thread the needle and be accurate when the pressure's on. He better be taking his receivers out for steak dinners every Friday night for the rest of his life, because they sure saved his ass last night. Of course, he's a Superbowl Champion now, so God love 'im. Well done to the Giants.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 03:30 PM on February 04
What's with the PC view of class as it pertains to not letting the Pats have exactly what they deserve? Have we forgotton so quickly these topics? We are perfect. We are the greatest ever. Bow down to the kings of sport. Cheer for us, we are perfect. All of the above were within the last 30 days. This is my favorite. Brady had a game for the ages yesterday, and that 26-28 could easily have been 28-28: his only incompletions were on-the-money drops (that Welker drop that would have kept the drive going was so frustrating!). If he has that kind of patience next week... it'll be a massacre. The Patriots have so many options, you simply can't cover them all, and the only weak link is if Brady can't find them. But when the offensive line gives him some extra time, and he "takes what the defense gives", he looks damn good. lbb: (Brady set another record in yesterday's game, btw -- a 92.9 completion percentage, highest for a quarterback in any NFL game, regular season or postseason.) There were at least three records, however inconsequential- highest completion percentage, and along with that most consecutive completions in the playoffs (16, before his first of two incompletions), and I think they flashed up something about most home wins/winning percentage in the playoffs; I believe he's undefeated at home, or had the most wins at home, or something. Harrison also extended/set a record for most consecutive playoff games with an INT, at 4. Really, at this point- with the Colts out of it- those not fans of San Diego, Green Bay, Dallas, or New York should be rooting for the Patriots: this is a once-in-a-lifetime chance to see perfection. As someone said earlier, if you go into the 9th with your team being beaten by a perfect game... you start rooting for a perfect game, even if it's the Yankees. Oh, and highest QB rating in playoff history (141.4). Odd that it wasn't "perfect" as a QB rating, because you can't imagine a better game, but I guess his yards-per-pass was too low. posted by Hal Incandenza at 4:00 PM CST on January 13 Just think if any other NFL team goes undefeated next year AND wins the SB. The Pats would go from potentially the greatest team ever to Mark Mcgwire in 1 year. A once in a life time chance to see perfection? Trademarking 19-0? This team and some of it's fans were just asking to lose. Classy?
posted by Prophite at 03:31 PM on February 04
would suggest the '85 Bears... I've always been of the opinion the 85 Bears were better than undefeated Dolphins, however if the Patriots would have won, my opinion would have had to changed. They put up some impressive numbers this year and I probably enjoy this year of football more than any other, with exception of Chiefs and Rams going to Super Bowl.
posted by Nakeman at 03:32 PM on February 04
I'm missing your point, prophite. What did the Pats fan that upset you so much? The links you posted don't seem bad to me. Were the Pats fan not supposed to be happy about their team doing so well? Where they not supposed to hope for a perfect season? How is that not classy? The reality is that the Pats were perfect until yesterday. And, really, I don't know how you can be any kind of judge of classiness with a comment dredging up old posts when Pats fans were happy with their team's success.
posted by bperk at 03:39 PM on February 04
What's with the PC view of class as it pertains to not letting the Pats have exactly what they deserve? Because karma is a bitch.
posted by goddam at 03:39 PM on February 04
posted by kirkaracha at 03:45 PM on February 04
What's with the PC view of class as it pertains to not letting the Pats have exactly what they deserve? Have we forgotton so quickly these topics? -prophite If you can't see the difference between what I quoted and the comments that you quoted then I don't know what to tell you. If you think this: Really, at this point- with the Colts out of it- those not fans of San Diego, Green Bay, Dallas, or New York should be rooting for the Patriots: this is a once-in-a-lifetime chance to see perfection. equals this: And it’s especially sweet as a Yankee fan to know that Red Sox Nation went to bed in tears last night. then you don't understand what you're reading. One is admiring a team, the other is simply enjoying and living vicariously through the pain of another fan base. Though I find that childish, bitter and classless, others might not. But your comparison is nonsense. On preview, why didn't I recognize that tone? You should change it up once in a while Bishop
posted by justgary at 03:47 PM on February 04
but I don't think Eli deserves nearly the credit he's receiving. The play where he escapes everybody on the Pats' defense was incredible, but if not for a standout play by Tyree, that ball goes two feet above his head. When he got out of that sack and let loose I expected to see a receiver with no defenders around. It was kind of a broken play at that point and the way he chucked the ball it just seemed like he saw someone get free. They pan over to the receiver and three Pats are swarming him. It should have been an interception or an incomplete and he got bailed out. But Eli does deserve credit for his gutsy play last night. And its fitting that his receivers bailed him out a few times because those same receivers have had a reputation for dropping a lot of balls...this year even.
posted by curlyelk at 03:56 PM on February 04
Sorry, Yukon. Didn't mean to offend you, but the truth is the truth. I guess I was trying to point out that in someways the boneheaded-ness of it all lends to the greatness. What could he do to not throw it up? 3rd and 5, 1:15 remaining, I've just escaped converging defenders, one of whom had hold of my jersey. Tyree is in tight coverage but those guys I just got away from are coming back. GET RID OF IT!!!! Terrible throw, please catch it. Shit that's gonna get picked. Oh shit he caught it on his helmet. TIMEOUT! I don't think that has room enough to say he doesn't deserve the credit he gets. but he still hasn't shown that he can thread the needle and be accurate when the pressure's on. The first touchdown pass to Tyree. Defender in pursuit and another coming towards the ball. Aikman pointed out the difficulty immediately.
posted by YukonGold at 03:59 PM on February 04
And it’s especially sweet as a Yankee fan to know that Red Sox Nation went to bed in tears last night. Give the Pats their due. Hell of a football team and only 3 points short of perfect season. I'm of the opinion, if they made a run within the final seconds, and kicked a field score to tie, they would have won the game. The Pats should be proud of what they accomplished. Belichick, however I'm not giving a free pass until the investigation concludes over the alledged taping of Rams before Super Bowl XXXVI. Boy, I hope this is not true. I'll be crushed all over again at the Rams loss.
posted by Nakeman at 04:08 PM on February 04
For me, the quality of the game was in the first and fourth quarters, which were enough to rate it among the most entertaining Super Bowls ever. Eli Manning and the Giants began with the longest opening drive in bowl history, sending a message to the Pats, and then Brady responded with a quick demoralizing touchdown in response. In the fourth, the lead changed hands three times with touchdowns, including two that ended within the final two minutes, and there were few penalties. Brady finally found his big-play receiver, and Manning-to-Tyree gave the game a signature play that will be remembered forever. Hard to top that.
posted by rcade at 04:17 PM on February 04
The first touchdown pass to Tyree. Defender in pursuit and another coming towards the ball. Aikman pointed out the difficulty immediately. I believe Aikman said something to the effect that if it was off by inches in either direction, that it would have been intercepted. I think Manning deserves all the credit he is getting. It was not a perfect game but he drove them on two long drives in the 4th quarter for TDs. On the first drive, the TD pass to Tyree (as well as the pass to the back up tight end, Boss) were great passes. On the second drive, he led the team 83 yards in the last two minutes of the game to score the winning TD. Even the pass to Tyree, given the circumstances, was a good play. If he throws that ball low, it's probably picked off. He throws it high, gives Tyree a chance to make a play and Tyree makes a phenomemal play. And if Manning doesn't fight his way out of the sack, it's probably 4th and 10. Again, two long 4th quarter TD drives to win the game. That seems to be a hugely clutch MVP type performance (I'm not taking anything away from the D-line, but if you're gonna single out one player, I'd single out Manning).
posted by cjets at 04:18 PM on February 04
Carl is gonna be happy. Carl is somewhat pleased.
posted by goddam at 04:26 PM on February 04
I just watched the fourth quarter (I live in Europe and didn't to stay up watch the game live) after knowing that Manning was voted MVP. All I can say is WTF? He must be the luckiest guy in the world. That last drive he threw two balls that really should have been intercepted. He nearly fumbled the ball when he ran out of the pocket. Toomer made an amazing shoestring catch on another pass that he threw short and granted he showed a lot of desire in getting away from the pass rush on the helmet catch, but Christ! he threw that ball wild into quadruple coverage!! The receiver made an amazing catch, but damn, that play was more luck than anything else. The only sharp pass he threw was the touchdown pass. Everything else just seemed like luck and near turnovers. This is an objective viewing by someone who is not a fan of either team, and doesn't even really follow the NFL anymore. No way is manning the MVP. The defense should have gotten it.
posted by sic at 05:07 PM on February 04
Have we forgotton so quickly these topics? We are perfect. We are the greatest ever. Bow down to the kings of sport. Cheer for us, we are perfect. #1 was a game thread and nowhere does "We are perfect" appear in the post. Even Hal's "more inside" bit seems a fair distance from gloating. #2 is Chuck Klosterman's rumination on perfection, a terrific link and about what it means to be imperfect. Fantastic example. #3 is a crap link and 50% of the comments are you making some meaningless jibe at the post and the Pats. #4 is a game thread posted by a Jaguars fan. Grind that ax.
posted by yerfatma at 05:17 PM on February 04
Some reactions to the Super Bowl... The fourth quarter was very entertaining but the most exciting thing that happened in between the Patriots first touchdown and the fourth quarter was Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers which isn't saying much. Tom Brady was not good at all, in large part due to the pressure. However, he still has more rings than all the Mannings combined. Incredible job by the Giants. Manning wasn't spectacular but he got the job. He wasn't the MVP though. I'd have given it to someone from the Giants' defensive line. I didn't see Bill Belichick's actions as unsportsmanlike. He gave his congratulations to Tom Coughlin. There really wasn't a need for him to stick around while 22 players assembled for a game-ending kneel down.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 05:41 PM on February 04
Good for Eli. Although the game was seriously overrated, again, it wasn't very interesting at all. The commercials I thought were very bad, oh the big hype machine gets us again....
posted by aMAIZEd Mark at 05:42 PM on February 04
Eli received the MVP b/c he's the quarterback and that's just how it is. If the Patriots had won, Brady would have been MVP even though the majority of his passes travel 5 yards and Welker had the game of his life. Several posters and commentators have no idea what "class" means. Humility, biting your tongue instead of lashing out, not feeling the need to brag about how special you are - these are some element of "class".
posted by whitedog65 at 05:54 PM on February 04
I'm a Pats fan sitting in the PHX airport (the world's friendliest airport! with free wifi!) waiting for my flight back to ... y'know ... work. Some additional comments: I've seen Petty a dozen times -- I went to UF -- and this was the best concert of his I've seen. I can't say it was the best SB concert ever, because I thought the Stones put on a great show a while back, but it was pretty damn awesome. And, no, I can tell you for certain he was not lip-synching. Throughout the halftime show there was a teenaged girl standing in the aisle next to me who had one responsibility: Shine a very large light at the ceiling of the stadium in random patterns. There were at least five other people doing this at other spots in the stadium. It was pretty funny. A few gabillion dollars spent on marketing and advertising and whatnot, and here's a girl getting paid $14.75 to stand in the aisle and shine a flashlight for a while. It seemed like the whole stadium was rooting for the upset for the whole game. The Giants won the game. It's hard to believe, but it's true. I'm pretty bitter, but I'm not even going to go into a rant about how it was really that "the Patriots lost the game". The Giants won. The fat, drunk, loud, obnoxious New Yorker who sat next to me on the bus ride back to the hotel after the game was, I feel, my punishment for trying to defend Bellicheck's scoring assaults earlier in the year. The Wendy's in the D terminal in PHX has nine employees on the clock and still manages to provide embarrassingly bad service. Apple put postcards inside the seat cushions with an iTunes code you could use to download highlights of the game. Slick marketing.
posted by GatorDavid at 06:35 PM on February 04
whitedog65: If the Patriots had won, Brady would have been MVP even though the majority of his passes travel 5 yards and Welker had the game of his life.
posted by hincandenza at 07:08 PM on February 04
Welker definitely would have been MVP.
posted by jerseygirl at 07:22 PM on February 04
I enjoyed the game, and though I was really just rooting for the offense (okay, part of me was rooting against perfection) the defensive play by both teams was really something. I think the Giants won because they played tough, gutsy games when they needed to. I think they were helped out in both the NFC game and the Superbowl by a few external factors: being the underdog suited their team psyche very well; the visiting bench heater "malfunction" at Green Bay kept them angry and ready to play all game long; the insulting Vegas line for the SB and the hubris of the Patriots' trademarking "19-0" provided a little more fire, especially for the defense, and especially for a team that played better as the season, and then the playoffs, progressed. I live in New York, and think NYC sports fans are more or less like fans from anywhere else, except many of them have the feeling, endemic among New Yorkers, that their city, their lives, and their sports teams are somehow exceptional, and that they're entitled to respect, if not success, because New York is a special city that confers on its denizens some special badge of honor. They're wrong, but nowadays everyone puts so much lip service into showing other teams and their fans how humble in victory or defeat they can be that they forget that it's about bragging rights, and that it's perfectly sportsmanlike to say, "Nice game. Now, fuck you, Giants, and the horse you rode in on. I'm glad you beat the Patriots, because I loathe perfection -- rooting for the Pats to go 19-0 is like rooting for the school bully to kick your own ass -- and also they're an AFL team, and we all know what that signifies. But now that you have the trophy, you're the target now. Enjoy it while it lasts; you earned it, now I hope you lose every game next year, or at least the ones against the Redskins. Congratulations, Giants, you helped remind this country that striving for perfection can be trumped by hard work and a little luck. Nice job, now go to hell." I loved the halftime show, but was disappointed at one song Tom Petty left off his set list: "Even the Losers..." ...get lucky sometimes.
posted by Hugh Janus at 07:38 PM on February 04
I think the Patriots were licking themselves over the 4th and 13 in the 3rd qtr.
posted by rockstar2001 at 07:42 PM on February 04
Call me crazy, but I still say they are arguably the best single-season team in history. Had they won yesterday, it would have been inarguable; now it's at least arguable. Sorry Hal. You're crazy. At best, they're the 43rd best team in history. You need to win the Super Bowl to even be in the conversation. All 42 superbowl winners deserve to be ranked ahead of them. And, as I mentioned earlier, why is it inarguable that a 19-0 Pats team would be the best ever? Do you consider the 1972 Dolphins the best ever because they were 17-0? The Pats were the best single season Passing Offense of all time. I'll give you that. But the Giants found a way to stop that.
posted by cjets at 07:48 PM on February 04
I think the Patriots were licking themselves over the 4th and 13 in the 3rd qtr. Licking themselves?
posted by jerseygirl at 07:59 PM on February 04
If they could do that, they'd never have left the team hotel.
posted by yerfatma at 08:02 PM on February 04
Licking themselves? Because they can?
posted by YukonGold at 08:07 PM on February 04
Tom Brady is a very flexible man.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 08:17 PM on February 04
If they could do that, they'd never have left the team hotel. That's it! That's why they lost!
posted by lil_brown_bat at 08:18 PM on February 04
I think the Patriots were licking themselves over the 4th and 13 in the 3rd qtr. So, if I say the Patriots suck, am I the one that get's in trouble? I would like to add that this in no way should reflect on rockstar 2001's ability to spell and/or locate keys on his keyboard. Especially if he meant to say that. Then I think an explanation is in order. Keyboards intake air sharply.
posted by THX-1138 at 08:29 PM on February 04
I'm happy for the Giants, I honestly didn't think they could do it. Eli Manning had one hell of a game, the Giants defense had Brady pressured the whole time, and the Patriots just seemed out of sync the entire game just to top it off.
posted by TelamarketersBeware at 08:34 PM on February 04
So, does anyone still think it was a bad idea for the Giants to actually play against the Patriots in that last regular season game? I'm guessing they learned some things from that game that they wouldn't have learned with Eli, Plaxico, Strahan, etc. on the bench.
posted by fabulon7 at 08:44 PM on February 04
Now wait just a dang second...... I don't think Eli deserves nearly the credit he's receiving. The play where he escapes everybody on the Pats' defense was incredible, but if not for a standout play by Tyree, that ball goes two feet above his head. I think the Giants' wide receivers saved Eli's bacon all through the second half I was unsure of Eli during most of the regular season HOWEVER, was he not the QB victim of "the most dropped passes in the NFL" all season??? Ok he got some help but damn he made some great throws too. The kid WANTED the ball with 2 minutes left and the game on the line, he DID throw a sweet TD pass Plax to win the biggest game in the world with seconds left. Was not, Joe Montanas pass destined for the bleachers when Clark snatched the pass and victory from the Cowboys in the NFC Championship game??? Come on guys, It's time to let go... He's not Peyton (he readily admits that) but he led his team to one of the biggest upsets in Superbowl history. As a question, how long did Peyton play before he won his first Superbowl? I love Plax, but him and Toomer drop alot of balls, certainly its no Harrison/Wayne combo like his brother has. To that effect, the O-line, up until the playoffs hasnt exactly been perfect and afforded him time to sit back and watch the for a break in coverage. I belive guts and heart are more important than raw talent and as a lifelong Giants fan I hope Eli retires as a G-Man. That kid was having fun playing and that is something you dont see everyday on the proffessional gridiron. There were ALOT of Giants that could have gotten MVP and I would have been OK with it but Eli got the nod, he deserves it and we shouldnt detract from his accomplishment to raise someone elses. Had the giants lost, we wouldnt be blaming the D-line, we would place it squarely on Eli. I think Eli has finally found his stride. Even if he struggles later on I will remember what he did here and as a GIANTS fan, I thank him for that. On another note I forgot to congratulate the Patriots and their fans on a great season. As a Yankee fan I hate (but respect) the Red Sox but certainly not "Boston" The Pats are a class act and did something truely incredible. They had a great season and should be proud. I have always hated that the "loser" of the Superbowl is seen as a "failure". The entire AFC "failed" to do what the Pats did and I would hardly consider that failure material.
posted by firecop at 09:49 PM on February 04
Hey! Look what I wrote on January 21:
I'm rooting for the Pats, but only a fool would underestimate the Giants at this point. They have been on fire for a month now. Two weeks rest, on the road, and the underdog position again? They're the team to beat in the Superbowl, I think. It is going to be an extremely close game, I imagine, and The Patriots are going to need their entire bag of tricks if they're going to beat them. Comment icon posted at 5:00 AM CST on January 21
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:02 PM on February 04
Tom Brady was not good at all, in large part due to the pressure. COM (29) ATT (48) YRDS (266) COM% (60.4%) LNG (19) TD (1) INT (0) RAT (82.5) While i'll be the first to admit that Brady didn't have the greatest game ever, by his or most anybody's standards, lets not go too far and say that he "was not good at all." Given the fact that Tuck, Strahan and company were drilling him half of the time he dropped back, i think that he actually played great. How many QB's who take a beating like that still complete 60% of their passes, throw no picks, and lead a lead drive to (temporarily) take the lead? Not many i would guess. If you look at the #'s and consider them in light of the pressure he faced, i think Brady was great. Almost every other quarterback would have given the game away with the beating Brady took. He, however, actually kept them in it and gave them a chance to win.
posted by brainofdtrain at 11:08 PM on February 04
So, does anyone still think it was a bad idea for the Giants to actually play against the Patriots in that last regular season game? As I recall, most people saw it as a good call at the time. As they moved on into the playoffs, people called it a better and better call. It's been considered a good idea for some time now.
posted by jmd82 at 11:14 PM on February 04
one of the biggest upsets in Superbowl history. I can't speak for the rest of the world, but here in NY there was a strong belief that the Giants not only could but would beat the Pats. They played the Pats tough in the last game of the regular season and swept through the NFC with little trouble. The Pats had a few rough playoff matches and didn't look as good as they did earlier in the season. What the Giants did to win was no surprise, the D-Line dominated, they got to Brady and negated the already weak Pats running game and Eli made timely completions to one of the most underrated WR corps in the NFL. My biggest gripe was that a defensive player didn't win the MVP.
posted by HATER 187 at 11:39 PM on February 04
If you look at the #'s and consider them in light of the pressure he faced, i think Brady was great. Almost every other quarterback would have given the game away with the beating Brady took. He, however, actually kept them in it and gave them a chance to win. Agree. To me Brady's defining moment as a great quarterback didn't come on a scoring drive, but on that last failed drive. Two plays jump out at me: First he put a tremendous bomb right on Randy Moss' hands but the Giants defensive backs played amazing defense to break it up. Moss barely had to break stride, the ball was right there. Second, when he got sacked, I mean just hammered near the end there, his first thought was to call a time out. Presence of mind. Time has almost completely run out, he just received a sledgehammer to the chest, he's lying on his back with 75,000 screaming fans and he still has the presence of mind to immediately call a time out from the ground. That is a quarterback. Congratulations to the Giants, they played an amazing game, especially the defense, and they beat a great team and a great quarterback. Also strongly agree that a defensive player should have won the MVP.
posted by sic at 04:21 AM on February 05
They played the Pats tough in the last game of the regular season and swept through the NFC with little trouble. With little trouble? They held off a last-minute drive by Dallas to win 21-17 and beat Green Bay in OT.
posted by rcade at 05:02 AM on February 05
Come on guys, It's time to let go... Time to let what go, exactly? My right to discuss sports as I see fit, becuase it upsets you? Guess what? I still don't think Eli deserves all the credit, or the MVP, and I'm going to continue thinking that, no matter what you say. I watched him launch crappy passes most of the night, and get bailed out by his teammates. Your team won the Superbowl; be happy with that, and quit complaining because not everybody is in love with Big Blue like you are. That's how sports works. Your post is like an Ode to Eli Manning, complete with a mash of everybody's favorite cliches (he's having fun out there!); you like the guy, I get it, but if you can't maintain at least a little bit of objectivity, you're going to go crazy around here. Congrats on the win.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 05:05 AM on February 05
rcade I must admit I am seeing things through blue tinted shades. To me it seemed like manifest destiny for the Giants to do what they did. I never found myself fretting over the outcome those games so I guess I should say my spectating experience was effortless.
posted by HATER 187 at 07:38 AM on February 05
#1 TBH, that was not directed solely at you ("guys" was plural so I thought that was clear). There are plenty of posts beating up on on Eli. How did I attempt to prohibit "your right to discuss sports"? I thought thats what we were doing? #2 So since my team won, I should shut up and color? Bullshit! I also have a right to discuss sports here as I see fit as well, and I happen to disagree with those who seem to think that Eli Sucked his way to a superbowl ring. I was one of his biggest critics during the season, I wasnt sure he was going to find his way in the NFL, but if NOT throwing an interception in the Entire playoffs (Brady threw 3 in the Championship game alone) doesnt get you at least some measure of respect as a passer then I dont know what will. #3 How is my post "complaining"? I attemted to rebutt the posts made critisizing Eli. I think I made some valid points too. His teamates that "bailed him out" as you say LED THE LEAGUE IN DROPPED PASSES. Maybe its about time they gave him some help. Maybe its YOU who need to stay objective around here. I was absolutely not upset when I wrote my post I just didnt agree with some of the opinions out there. Guys should be used to that by now.. #4 I've never written an "Ode" before so I was unaware that using one cliched tearm was the measure by which odes were written but since I know now I will practice and write some more. Look TBH, I dont know who your "team" is but there were alot of crappy written, inflammatory threads out there on both sides of this game but I re-read mine and I still dont think mine was one of em.
posted by firecop at 07:53 AM on February 05
54-40 or fight.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:56 AM on February 05
You would make the Polk administration proud l_l_b.
posted by HATER 187 at 08:37 AM on February 05
First he put a tremendous bomb right on Randy Moss' hands but the Giants defensive backs played amazing defense to break it up. Moss barely had to break stride, the ball was right there. I disagree. The ball was under thrown and Moss had to slow down to try to catch it as he was already past the defenders. Aikman mentioned this as well (not that I'm criticizing Brady on that throw as I don't think there are many QB's who could have thrown it further...he just ran out of arm strength, it wasn't an accuracy issue). The sad part on that play was everybody knew he was going to throw it up for grabs for Moss, 2 guys were on Moss knowing he was going to go deep and going to get the ball, and all that said Moss STILL ran right past both of them and had at least 2 steps on them (and had Brady been able to throw it 80 yards could have had 4 or 5 steps on them and the winning TD).
posted by bdaddy at 08:39 AM on February 05
I happen to disagree with those who seem to think that Eli Sucked his way to a superbowl ring. I think you're fighting with people who don't exist, at least not in this thread. I don't think Manning sucked, but I also don't think he was the MVP, and that particular pass was a ruptured duck. It succeeded due to some luck and another player's skill -- subtract that skill, and you've got millions of viewers screaming that the pass never should have been thrown.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 08:45 AM on February 05
I happen to disagree with those who seem to think that Eli Sucked his way to a superbowl ring Be fair. That was never said. Not even close. For me personally I was trying to discuss the context of the play vs. the execution. TBH never said he sucked, just that the play (where most of the credit is derived) itself wasn't finely executed. btw, I watched the last three drives again last night. I read on one Pats blog that they had 7 chances to intercept Eli on his drive. That's a little inflated but there were definitely three and when it happened Merriweather's last shot at it didn't scare me nearly as much as it did last night. Eli was definitely slinging it around. On second viewing Steve Smith's first down (last one) was probably the finest of the drive. I was one of his biggest critics during the season Yeah, you're obviously a Giants fan. That's not an exclusive opinion. As a question, how long did Peyton play before he won his first Superbowl? Irrelevant. How many supermodels did Tom Brady date before he won his first? So, does anyone still think it was a bad idea for the Giants to actually play against the Patriots in that last regular season game? There was someone? The Giants weren't barnstorming the NFL prior to that game, they certainly didn't need a week off to reflect. Brandon Jacobs and Plaxico were probably the only viable candidates due to injury.
posted by YukonGold at 08:55 AM on February 05
It succeeded due to some luck and another player's skill -- subtract that skill, and you've got millions of viewers screaming that the pass never should have been thrown. I watched it live and didn't have the ability to see the outcome yet I wasn't screaming don't throw it. I realize I was cheering for Eli, but he's not winning the game with out throwing up that "ruptured duck". He threw it, it was caught. End of story. Credit where credit is due in my mind. The MVP discussion is trivial. Fans only had 8 options in their text messaging options and I believe that plays into the decision. Justin Tuck and David Tyree were not options.
posted by YukonGold at 08:59 AM on February 05
Before the game was even played I just assumed if the Giants won Manning would come away with the MVP, almost regardless of how he played. He would have had to have thrown five interceptions (and Jacobs or Bradshaw would have had to have scored 3 times and rushed for 150 yards) to not get it. He's a Manning, for god's sake, the media darlings of the league. The league (and advertisers) want his face on commercials, going to Disney World, holding the trophy, etc.
posted by dyams at 09:01 AM on February 05
Call me crazy, but I still say they are arguably the best single-season team in history. I have to agree with Hal. This team can still be considered at the top of the list. Maybe not THE top, but close to it. At best, they're the 43rd best team in history. You need to win the Super Bowl to even be in the conversation. All 42 superbowl winners deserve to be ranked ahead of them. Winning a Super Bowl 20 years ago doesn't make you better than the team that lost the Super Bowl this year. Easy enough to point out the fallacy in that thinking. Tiger Woods isn't taken off the greatest golfer list after losing a major. On Sunday, one of the great teams got beat by a very good team. This is how sports works. Sometimes the underdog wins. It's why many of us watch. The better team doesn't always win. Only 3 teams have ever won 18 games in one season. How can that not make them at least nearly as good as those two teams (85 Bears and 84 49ers)? I'm a 49er fan by the way and still think those two teams of the 80's are the best ever but I see the argument for these Patriots.
posted by Ricardo at 09:16 AM on February 05
As some one who has not watched the Patriots all year on TV, I live in Bangkok, (but did get up at 4:30 am to be in a bar by 5:30 to get a seat), I have to ask: After reading all the records they set this year, it seemed to me the Pats were way to conservative from the start. I thought they would take shots down field from their first posession and go for the knock out early. Their play calling was so conservative I don't think they ever gave themselves a chance before all hell broke loose with the Giants front 7. And after the interception, a screen and 2 runs.....I would have bet the farm they would go deep then. Does anyone who watched them play this year agree or was this a typical mix of plays that was sucessful for them during the year? I grant the Giants' defense changed the whole game once they got going but I still think the Pats never really gave their offense a chance to get the Giants back on their heels. Comments?
posted by gfinsf at 09:20 AM on February 05
Also I have to say if anyone questions Tom Brady's toughness they need a reality check. The strip of his arm when he was throwing that one pass in slow motion (was watching the ESPN feed) looked like his arm was going to be broken. If he was bitching on the sidelines good for him, I never saw quit in his eyes. He got beaten up badly but was there in the end. He's a winner and yesterday will not take that away.
posted by gfinsf at 09:34 AM on February 05
It's not an option to go down field if your QB keeps getting knocked down before the receivers get down field. How many plays did Brady get before getting knocked on his butt? Quick short passes force teams out of blitzing, long passes when the defence is blitzing will get the QB sacked.
posted by Familyman at 09:39 AM on February 05
I don't know what a "ruptured duck" is, but I thought that the pass Eli threw had a fair bit of zip on it. The biggest issue with it was that it sailed a little bit and was over Tyree's head. Here's the video. There's a great breakdown of that play by a Giants fan in this discussion at Football Outsiders.
posted by holden at 09:52 AM on February 05
I don't see how the Patriots deserve mention among the best teams of all-time. The Giants were the No. 5 seed in the NFC and the lowest-ranked wild card team to ever reach a Super Bowl. I think we'll remember these Pats as a team that dominated the regular season but lost a step in the playoffs. You can't lose to a big underdog in the biggest game and still stake a claim to immortality. Regarding Brady's bomb to Moss, I disagree with Aikman's take. It took a great defensive play to keep that pass out of Moss' hands.
posted by rcade at 10:00 AM on February 05
Their play calling was so conservative I don't think they ever gave themselves a chance before all hell broke loose I have to agree with Familyman. There was one point, think it was early in the second half, where Moss made eye contact with Brady and shifted his eyes in a way that suggested (to my amateur suspicions), "Going deep". I got all fired up for the .7 seconds after the snap before the Giants sacked Brady as he was about to let fly. That rush was relentless. The one thing I might wonder is why they didn't go to more 2 and 3 TE sets like they did earlier in the playoffs. The offense looked like shit. I'm guessing a bit of that is Brady's injury (he looked similarly bad with the over and underthrows against SD), but the bulk of the credit goes to the Giants' D. On preview: it looked during the game like Aikman had it exactly right; Moss slowed down and the DBs caught up to him. If that pass was 10 yards further down the field, I think Moss could have caught up. I know the DBs could not have.
posted by yerfatma at 10:05 AM on February 05
I don't see how the Patriots deserve mention among the best teams of all-time. While we're at it...can Batman beat up Superman? (edit: Brady and Moss are among a number of players who will not be going to Hawaii)
posted by lil_brown_bat at 10:12 AM on February 05
(edit: Brady and Moss are among a number of players who will not be going to Hawaii) The Pro Bowl game is a contest that should go away once and for all. I like pro football as much as the next guy, but after the playoffs and Super Bowl I have never had any desire at all to watch the game. More and more players, especially from Super Bowl teams, choose not to go, so it's a rush to fill the rosters with replacements. It really involves paying the guys to party in Hawaii, go through the motions for four quarters (save for a few decent hits), and that's it. I can't help but wonder what the reception would be for the game if it was held on the mainland. Have it in Philly or Baltimore and see how many players opt out!
posted by dyams at 10:31 AM on February 05
The Giants were the No. 5 seed in the NFC and the lowest-ranked wild card team to ever reach a Super Bowl This was after a 10-6 season in which they lost to Dallas twice, Green Bay, Minnesota, Washington and New England. Those "6" teams (counting Dallas twice) had a combined record of 72-24, the bulk of which came from the 8-8 Vikings and the 9-7 Redskins. Just because they were a wildcard team, doesn't mean they were a bad team. They lost to mostly top quality opponents and other than the Ravens, gave the Patriots the biggest worry in the regular season. Plus, they were the five seed because two lesser teams (Seahawks and Bucs) won their division. The Bucs did it with a worse record and the Seahawks only tied the Giants record despite being in a MUCH weaker conference (and let me point out again, I root for one of those crappy teams). And despite the beating that Brady took all night, he still managed an 82 passer rating.
posted by Ricardo at 10:37 AM on February 05
Brady's QBR of 82 is lower than all but three of his regular season games in 2007. His average was the ungodly 117.2! I think the two biggest numbers in the bowl were 5 sacks and that 82.5 QBR. If the Giants don't get to Brady, it's not even a close game.
posted by rcade at 10:44 AM on February 05
The Pro Bowl game is a contest that should go away once and for all. Seconded. I stopped being interested around 11. It's great from a Saturday Morning Cartoon perspective: "What if we had to assemble one football team to play for the future of Earth?" Once you get past that age, it stops being interesting.
posted by yerfatma at 10:49 AM on February 05
Call me crazy, but I still say they are arguably the best single-season team in history. Ok, you're crazy. You are not a championship team unless you win the championship game. And non-championship teams do not qualify for consideration for the pantheon. The Pats had a great season, but you gotta bring home the bacon. And Superman would totally kick Batman's ass.
posted by psmealey at 10:57 AM on February 05
I don't see how the Patriots deserve mention among the best teams of all-time. The Giants were the No. 5 seed in the NFC and the lowest-ranked wild card team to ever reach a Super Bowl. I don't see the number 5 seed as a big deal. The giants got hot at the right time. The cowboys, the number one seed, looked awful down the stretch. The seeds at playoff time are basically meaningless. As far as one of the best of all time, you can't put them in the mix, but how can they not be logically? If the patriots win that game they're certainly in the running for the best of all time, right? So the difference between being the best of all time and not even being considered is a play where the guy catches the football on his head? Come on. The patriots simply did not play well in their last game. But the idea that they're not a great team, that they were over-rated when the difference may well have been a play that wouldn't be duplicated in a hundred years is ludicrous.
posted by justgary at 11:00 AM on February 05
As far as one of the best of all time, you can't put them in the mix, but how can they not be logically? If the patriots win that game they're certainly in the running for the best of all time, right? So the difference between being the best of all time and not even being considered is a play where the guy catches the football on his head? Come on. The patriots simply did not play well in their last game. But the idea that they're not a great team, that they were over-rated when the difference may well have been a play that wouldn't be duplicated in a hundred years is ludicrous. I tend to think these things even out over time. Would we be discussing the Patriots as the best team if A.J. Feeley didn't decide to throw deep on Asante Samuel when the Eagles were ahead and had the momentum in Week 12? Or if Baltimore had not called a timeout on fourth down in Week 13? Teams get lucky to win sometimes and have bad luck to lose; unfortunately for the Patriots, the other team was the beneficiary of a "lucky" play in the biggest game that mattered. I personally think the Patriots season was historic and that they are likely the best regular season team of all-time and in the top 5 teams of all-time. But from Week 12 onward (including into the playoffs), they were not consistently dominating teams the way they were earlier in the season. Contrast that with, say, the 1985 Bears, who won their three playoff games 21-0, 24-0 and 46-10. For better or worse, armchair historians and MMQBs overemphasize how a team finishes.
posted by holden at 11:16 AM on February 05
The patriots simply did not play well in their last game. I think that's a tough idea for some people to come to grips with. One team wins and one team loses in sports (except in hockey, which still irks me). Saying the Patriots are overrated because they lost this game is overly simplistic. Everyone gets so wrapped up in "point spreads" and "favorites" that they seem to ignore the idea any team that finds itself in the Super Bowl should be able to logically win the game. That being said I do think losing the championship takes them out of the "Greatest" conversation, but I'll never say they're not a hell of a team.
posted by dyams at 11:22 AM on February 05
Or if Baltimore had not called a timeout on fourth down in Week 13? How quickly we forget that Balmer won that game.
posted by yerfatma at 11:29 AM on February 05
Come on. The patriots simply did not play well in their last game. Defensively, they were just a sharp as the Giants, and offensively, they looked great on their first offensive possession as well as their final drive. I don't think you can say that they did not play well, they did play well against a very tough and committed team. The Giants just played a little bit better when it counted.
posted by psmealey at 11:33 AM on February 05
Tiger Woods isn't taken off the greatest golfer list after losing a major. Only 3 teams have ever won 18 games in one season. How can that not make them at least nearly as good as those two teams (85 Bears and 84 49ers)? Because they didn't win the Super Bowl. As far as the Tiger Woods reference, it's a different sport with 4 "super bowls" in each season. If, by the Woods reference, you mean sustained excellence, I can't really argue with them being called the team of the decade. But that doesn't make this 2007 team one of the best of all time. As far as one of the best of all time, you can't put them in the mix, but how can they not be logically? If the patriots win that game they're certainly in the running for the best of all time, right? So the difference between being the best of all time and not even being considered is a play where the guy catches the football on his head? When you say that the difference in the whole game was that catch, you do a disservice to the great game the Giants played. The defense held them to 14 points with 5 sacks. Manning had a QB rating of 140.5 in the 4th quarter with two long TD drives. And the Giants had bad breaks of their own. The bobbled pass by Smith that led to the INT. Manning's overthrow of Burress. Manning choosing to throw to Burress when he had a wide open Toomer. The Giants outplayed the Patriots and deserved the win. I think the Patriots are a great team and not overrated. But if you want respect for the Pats, you should show the same respect for the Giants and the game they played. As for the catch itself, described by some on this site as "lucky" and the pass itself a "ruptured duck," I would have to disagree. This was not the immaculate reception. Manning threw the ball right to Tyree. He didn't have to move his feet, just elevate. It went a little high but not too high for Tyree to get both hands on it. It was a great play and evokes memories of Montana to Clark, if anything. I don't recall anyone calling them lucky.
posted by cjets at 11:49 AM on February 05
I think that's a tough idea for some people to come to grips with. One team wins and one team loses in sports (except in hockey, which still irks me). Huh? There are no more ties in hockey. Football/soccer still has ties (except in the playoffs).
posted by grum@work at 11:58 AM on February 05
But that doesn't make this 2007 team one of the best of all time. Well, they are ONE of the best of all time. They smiply can't claim to be THE best of all time. But in the same fashion, I don't believe that the '72 Dolphins are THE best of all time, but they are allowed to be part of the discussion.
posted by grum@work at 12:00 PM on February 05
I can't really argue with them being called the team of the decade. I don't think anyone can. I fully expect them to do better than 12-4 next year and again go deep in the playoffs. As for claims of being "overrated" or "chokers", those are ridiculous. Given all this team has achieved in the past few years, particularly in view of how much parity there is in the league now (compared with the Packers in the 60s and Steelers in the 70s). The Patriots of this era certainly deserve a mention alongside the greatest evar. Just questioning the greatness of the single season team that fails to win the big one.
posted by psmealey at 12:05 PM on February 05
Huh? There are no more ties in hockey. (Kind of off-topic, but...) I think the shootout system, after three periods and an overtime end in a tie, is a ridiculous way to determine a winner. Ties have been done away with in the standings, but ending a game this way is kind of like baseball, after one extra inning, going to a home run derby to determine a winner. They should play the game until a winner is determined in regular play.
posted by dyams at 12:14 PM on February 05
I have always been an outspoken proponent for letting games end as draws (except baseball, however, that would be sacrilege). The hockey shootout is always unsatisfying, NFL sudden death seems wrong sometimes, soccer shootouts are an abomination before God and the NCAA college football shootout is a freakshow, it's exciting as hell, but you might as well flip a coin to decide who wins. To my mind, look, you left it all out on the field after 60 minutes of play, and the score is tied it's a tie. Sometimes that's how it goes.
posted by psmealey at 12:20 PM on February 05
(Kind of off-topic, but...) If keeps this alive for another 100 comments have at it. Also, if lbb wants to go down the fight road... it's Cougar vs. Bear
posted by YukonGold at 12:30 PM on February 05
can Batman beat up Superman? Well in Frank Miller's The Dark Night Returns Bats does get the upper hand on Superman (granted with a little help from Oliver Queen a.k.a. Green arrow, who ironically enough fires a green kryptonite arrow at Superhombre) while wearing a super powered battle armour. Although Bruce Wayne "dies" of heart attack (to fake his own death so he can the social injustices perpetrated by the corrupt authorities) he clearly has Superman at his mercy. I hope that helped answer your question Ms. Bats.
posted by HATER 187 at 12:46 PM on February 05
can Batman beat up Superman? The real question should be, "Is Lois Lane hotter than Spiderman's girlfriend?"
posted by Howard_T at 12:52 PM on February 05
In Superman: Red Son, Batman gets pretty close. Well worth a read. Superman is raised as a Communist hero and Batman is a local terrorist. On preview: no, Howard, Lois Lane is a rag and not even in the same discussion as MJ. I don't know how you can come in here making spurious claims about female comic book characters' attractiveness without some hard data* to back it up. *Geek crotches do not qualify.
posted by yerfatma at 12:52 PM on February 05
And the thread spirals further out of control.
posted by brainofdtrain at 01:13 PM on February 05
In Superman: Red Son, Batman gets pretty close. Well worth a read. Superman is raised as a Communist hero and Batman is a local terrorist. A great read, but Miller put the issue to rest in the Dark Knight Returns. Both are effectively outside of "canon" and even the loosest interpretation of continuity, but it was friggin' AWESOME! And, for my money, if we are talking Superman Elseworlds stories nothing tops the nightmare fuel quality of the Elseworlds 80 Page Giant. Baby Kal-El in a microwave. Suckling a cow? I also agree with you on Lois v. MJ. Though I'd rather not talk about it, its a sensitive subject.
posted by lilnemo at 01:16 PM on February 05
And the thread spirals further out of control. Imagine what it will look like at the 300 post mark.
posted by dyams at 01:23 PM on February 05
I've had a thing for maryjane for fifteen years now.
posted by garfield at 01:38 PM on February 05
Dude, the guy on the Cialis ad says you should call the Doctor after four hours.
posted by Mr Bismarck at 01:56 PM on February 05
At the 300 post mark, we'll probably be dining in hell...
posted by hincandenza at 02:37 PM on February 05
Defensively, they were just a sharp as the Giants, and offensively, they looked great on their first offensive possession as well as their final drive. Both defenses played well, yes. But the giants were going against one of the greatest offenses of all time with a quarterback many consider one of if not the best of all time. So saying the New England defense played as well as New York's is true if you take out those details. I don't think you can say that they did not play well, they did play well against a very tough and committed team. The Giants just played a little bit better when it counted. I'm not saying New England played a terrible game. But I don't think they played well. Give credit to the giant offensive line. That doesn't mean blame can't be put on the Patriot defensive line. When you say that the difference in the whole game was that catch, you do a disservice to the great game the Giants played. No I'm not. I'm saying that play could have gone either way. It was a pivotal play and had a huge mark on the game. I'll bet 9 out of every 10 times (and that's being generous) that ball falls to the ground. That's not taking anything away from the giants. That's simply the truth. It was a close game that could have gone either way. That play went the giants way. If it had gone the patriots way I'd say the same thing. So my point, with the game so close, and such a decisive play, it's nonsense to call the patriots over-rated when they were so close to a win and 19-0. This was not the immaculate reception. Manning threw the ball right to Tyree. He didn't have to move his feet, just elevate. It went a little high but not too high for Tyree to get both hands on it. It was a great play and evokes memories of Montana to Clark, if anything. I don't recall anyone calling them lucky. Because there wasn't a single thing lucky about it that play. No, sunday's play wasn't the immaculate reception, but it wasn't montana to clark either. It was somewhere in between. This might be where we agree to disagree, because I can't fathom how you can look at those two plays and not see how one might be considered slighly more lucky than the other.
posted by justgary at 02:39 PM on February 05
At the 300 post mark, we'll probably be dining in hell... ...or we'll start building a great wall using the Patriots as mortar. Or was it Persians?
posted by BoKnows at 02:40 PM on February 05
So my point, with the game so close, and such a decisive play, it's nonsense to call the patriots over-rated when they were so close to a win and 19-0. I would agree with that especially because I never called them overrated. I just said that they're not one of the best ever because they didn't win the Super Bowl. This might be where we agree to disagree, because I can't fathom how you can look at those two plays and not see how one might be considered slighly more lucky than the other. If what you're saying is that Manning to Tyree was slighty more lucky than Montana to Clark, I guess I can buy that. What I have an issue with is the characterization that this was more luck than skill. Let's talk about what this catch wasn't. It wasn't a tipped ball. It wasn't caught with one hand. It wasn't caught with any other part of his body. To review (again): Manning breaks away from what seemed to be a sure sack. He spots Tyree and delivers a 40 yard strike to him, albeit slightly higher than he would have liked. Tyree elevated and caught the ball with two hands. It was only after the initial catch that he held the ball against his head to ensure the reception. Of course, there's some luck involved. But there's also a tremendous amount of skill involved on the part of both players. Does he drop it 9 out of 10 times? I would argue that but I don't have to. They made the play when they needed to with a minute to go in the Super Bowl. That's my definition of clutch, not luck. /And now back to Superman v. Batman (or was that MJ v. Susan Storm?)
posted by cjets at 03:17 PM on February 05
I've taken this topic to the streets so I can continue to participate. From our office mongoloid:
Kryptonite or not, Supes has to get close enough to Bats for it to work. Supes goes into orbit, shoots his fuckin' lazer eyes, hits Batman's explosive caplets on his belt, and BAT-A-BOOM!!! Bat Soup. It's that simple. Bat Man doesn't stand a chance. In fact, fuck Bat Man. Thor vs. Superman!
posted by YukonGold at 03:32 PM on February 05
(or was that MJ v. Susan Storm?) It's on now:
On on the topic of the hottest piece of comic ass, Sue's hot, but who wants to go after a dude name Mr.Fantastic? Namor can't compete w/ that, and he knows that, and that's why he's always tryin' to invade the main land.
posted by YukonGold at 03:36 PM on February 05
I've had a thing for maryjane for fifteen years now. Me too, but I just put the pipe down one day and it's like the whole world came alive, man! On a side note: I absolutely love the fact that on the best sports related site I know of, geeks rule the day. But thanks for keepin' it real, Mr. justgary.
posted by THX-1138 at 03:47 PM on February 05
Sue's hot, but who wants to go after a dude name Mr.Fantastic? Plus, he's got that stretchy thing goin' on. That's a bit much to match up against. Guy can alter his junk depending on her mood. Now, that's what I call ribbed for her pleasure.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 03:55 PM on February 05
If the patriots win that game they're certainly in the running for the best of all time, right? When they lost, the Pats changed from "one of the greatest teams of all time" to "one of the greatest teams of all time to lose a Super Bowl." So the difference between being the best of all time and not even being considered is a play where the guy catches the football on his head? Yep. As someone who lives in an alternate universe where Dallas' drive after The Catch didn't fall short in 1981 and Danny White is justly remembered as one of the great QBs of his era, I can understand the sentiment that one lousy pass shouldn't separate the 2007 Pats from their immortality. But that's why they play the games.
posted by rcade at 04:02 PM on February 05
Guy can alter his junk depending on her mood. Now, that's what I call ribbed for her pleasure. What about THE THING? Let's just say he's permanently ready for action. And, by the way, the on-screen version of Sue Storm (Jessica Alba) defeats all comers.
posted by cjets at 04:06 PM on February 05
Interesting choice of phrasing. However, if The Thing were any sort of stud, he wouldn't have needed to wait for a blind girl to wander into his universe.
posted by yerfatma at 04:16 PM on February 05
Well, I finally have internet access so I am finally able to post my thoughts on this game. Bear in mind, I am a die hard Pats fan how has followed the team religiously since 1985 1. Congrats to the Giants for pulling off one of the greatest upsets in sports history. Even though I told anyone who would listen that the G-men worried me, I still believed Brady & the bouys would pull it out. 2. This Super Bowl is exactly what a football game should have been: bone crushing defense, intriguing offense, non stop edge of your seat action. Anyone who equates high scoring with greatness is not a true football fan because they don't truly appreciate all facets of the game. 3. My son went to bed crying because the Pats lost. I went in there and told him that the Pats didn't lose, the Giants just won. They out-executed the Patriots, and whoever wound up winning that game deserved to raise the Lombardi. Then I told him welcome to the agonizing disappointing reality of what being a true New England sports fan is all about. 4. the Giants' defensive scheme was genius. They figured out a way to tie up the O-Line 1-on-1 to allow a delayed pass rush get to Brady. Sheer genius. 5. I'm not making any excuses, but I do think Brady's ankle was worse than ANYBODY let on. What stuck in my mind was a comment by Buck, I think, that said that Brady tried practicing with the boot, but stopped because "it was too uncomfortable". You don't recover that quickly from a high ankle sprain, I don't care who you are. 6. Another talking head said that, towards the end of the season, it almost seemed as if the Patriots were trying to lose a game but the other teams just kept giving them back the victories. I don't believe that, but I do believe that the Pats did let the magnitude of the potential accomplishment get to them. Just look at how they looked and acted when they came out. They were too business-like and didn't seem to be enjoying themselves at all. Just a personal observation. and finally, 7. Comic book wise, MJ puts them all to shame; on screen, how come no-one is mentioning Halle Berri in tight black leather?
posted by crqri at 04:35 PM on February 05
how come no-one is mentioning Halle Berry in tight black leather? Because the film was bad enough that I tried to remove the memory of having seen it with a belt sander? I was always partial to a bit of Dark Phoenix myself. I mean sure, on a date she might order and devour the nearest star, but nobody's perfect. Not even the Pats.
posted by Mr Bismarck at 04:57 PM on February 05
Guy can alter his junk depending on her mood. Now, that's what I call ribbed for her pleasure. Maybe, but he doesn't last near as long as Anthony Stark.
posted by irunfromclones at 04:57 PM on February 05
Then I told him welcome to the agonizing disappointing reality of what being a true New England sports fan is all about. Come again? Three Super Bowl championships this decade is hardly a disappointing reality. If a true New England sports fan is also a Red Sox fan I think this decade has been the opposite of a disappointing reality.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 05:38 PM on February 05
how come no-one is mentioning Halle Berri in tight black leather? Catwoman or Storm? Actually, why am I even asking?
posted by yerfatma at 06:00 PM on February 05
Howard, Lois Lane is a rag and not even in the same discussion as MJ yerfatma, when you're my age, Lois Lane's grandmother looks pretty darn good. On the topic of luck vs great play (how did that intersperse itself into a good discussion of comic book babes?), it doesn't matter. One of the NE players said it best (and I paraphrase here because I don't remember the exact quote) by saying that if the Giants were lucky, we (the Patriots) shouldn't have let them be that close. Re Belichick leaving the field early, he said in his press conference today that he was confused about the clock. He said that he saw people running onto the field and assumed that the game was over. Can those who equate BB with the Prince of Darkness accept this for what he says it is? On edit, YYM, being a true New England sports fan means that in front of every silver lining, there's a cloud. Don't forget that the Red Sox were the dynasty team in the early 20th century, then went 86 years with only a sniff or 2. It is engrained on our psyche that success today will be followed by disaster, false hopes, suffering, and anguish.
posted by Howard_T at 07:30 PM on February 05
That is true. However, in light of recent successes I'd say a a decade or two will have to pass before lamenets can start again. Hopefully by that time the Lions will have won the Super Bowl. Or at least make the playoffs. A guy can dream right?
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 07:43 PM on February 05
5. I'm not making any excuses, but I do think Brady's ankle was worse than ANYBODY let on. I think you're right. There was one play in the third quarter when the end-zone camera had him, and he just looked like he was standing all wrong. I wonder if we'll be hearing anything more about this.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 08:26 PM on February 05
So, um, I was watching on the internet streamed from China so had no English commentary or commercials. I was struck, as half-time began, with how phallic the stage that Tom Petty was on looked as it strobed white. Did anyone else see that? Crazy.
posted by geekyguy at 08:32 PM on February 05
They should play the game until a winner is determined in regular play. They do keep playing, in the playoffs. However, doing that in the regular season would be ridiculous because no one would want to watch (or play) a game that lasts for another 4 hours but only counts for 1/82nd of a season. It's not the same as baseball and extra innings because there isn't as much physical effort (except for relief pitchers) as hockey. I was struck, as half-time began, with how phallic the stage that Tom Petty was on looked as it strobed white. Did anyone else see that? Crazy. Wasn't he on the heart-shaped stage? Then it lit up with the arrow/guitar pierced it. Granted, the arrow/guitar looked phallic, but that's the standard look for that item.
posted by grum@work at 08:44 PM on February 05
I would agree with that especially because I never called them overrated. I just said that they're not one of the best ever because they didn't win the Super Bowl. True, you never did. What you said was: But if you want respect for the Pats, you should show the same respect for the Giants and the game they played. Which, not showing respect for the giants was not my point, and not anything I said. So I was trying to make my point clearer. The giants played a great game, showed no fear, and seemed to have more energy than the patriots. Saying that the game could have gone either way and hinged on an improbable play, which it did, doesn't take away from that.
posted by justgary at 12:39 AM on February 06
I did not have a dog in this fight and just wanted to see a competitive contest but with an 18-0 team playing a 13-6 team my concern was the game would not be competitive. We all agreed that if Brady took the game over and it got out of hand we would watch something else even if it were just reruns of The Brady Bunch. Not only was the game competitive - it was a giant upset. Just like Petty warned and Manning experienced - there is no easy way out - especially when you are behind, time is running out, and the other team is surrounding you with two guys grabbing your shirt and one pounding your head. And while the Patriot's pounded on Manning's head, Manning and Tyree were getting ready to use their heads to keep the Giants in the game. Somehow Manning managed to extricate himself, circle through the mob, retreat, and find Tyree who made a circus catch. Tyree only caught three passes but that is like saying Rembrandt only painted three pictures. Although Tyree's catch does not rise to the level of the Immaculate Reception, it was one of the best catches in a big game when the game was on the line. Welker's 11 grabs is a good effort for the Patriots but these efforts tend to be diminished and forgotten when they are performed on a losing team. Very few people remember the Snake scrambling 37 yards for a touchdown and giving Oakland a 7-6 lead over Pittsburgh with just over a minute remaining. That is because about one minute later Harris made the Immaculate Reception which won the game for Pittsburgh. Listening to people on ESPN slam New England claiming they were thoroughly whipped and had a failed season leaves one wondering what they were watching all year. Three points away from winning a Super Bowl and a record of 18-1 is a pretty impressive season and nobody is perfect - except of course Shula, Csonka, and the No Names.
posted by longgreenline at 02:46 AM on February 06
The Giants could have scored more points, but they kept screwing up inside the Patriots 30 in the first half. They could easily have had at least two field goals. The Giants' defense was astonishing. Late in the third quarter, the Patriots had run 41 offensive plays, 19 for 0 or negative yards. The Patriots scored on 53% of their drives during the regular season (pretty amazing); they scored on two out of nine during the Super Bowl. I think the Patriots' would have won if it had gone to overtime. The Giants D was exhausted during the Patriots scoring drive. Field position was huge. The Patriots started three drives inside their 12 and two more inside their 21. Going 80-90+ yards is tough for any offense. McQuarters fielded almost every punt, even when it would have been safer to fair catch, but it paid off and he had decent return yards.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:33 AM on February 06
The Giants were giant killers on Sunday. A lot of the what ifs I have read make me want to remind everyone that. Everybody knows Defense Wins Championships. Football is a game of inches/ The Giants led the league in sacks and pressure on the QB. Any player will tell you that the team that makes the big plays when they have to wins. Manning deserves the MVP because - In the first quarter he engineered a drive that almost took up the whole quarter resulting in a score and keeping the Pats offense on the sideline for almost a quarter. During that drive he made numerous 3rd down conversions with excellent on target passes. He played relatively mistake free. In the fourth quarter after the Pats had scored what looked like the winning touchdown, he stepped onto the field and with under two minutes left was asked to lead his team down the field and score a touchdown. Every good player dreams of this scenario. With a world of pressure he did exactly what was required. The play - the Pats did everything perfect. The applied a ton of pressure on Manning, and the had the receivers covered. Despite that Manning makes the play of the game and escapes the pressure, gets the ball off and throws it to a covered receiver but in the only place possible to avoid a interception. The receiver makes a great catch and then has to fight off the defender to hang on to the ball keeping the drive alive. Then Manning throws a perfect touch pass for a touchdown. How do you not give him the MVP. The defense as a group were great but if you are going to single out one player for the MVP it's got to be Manning. One question. How did the defense of the Giants let Moss get behind everybody with a couple of seconds left? Brady throws that ball a little sooner or 5 yards further and the Giants loose with 9 seconds on the clock. I loved the game, and I have seen every Superbowl and think this was the best. Especially since the Giants beat the Pats in exactly the same way the Pats usually beat their opponents in the close ones. Great play combined with what seems like luck, but is really just making the plays when you have to. Priceless. Now the Pats just become one of three teams to go 18-1 for a season, but of course they are the only one of those teams that managed to have their one loss in the Superbowl. The other two teams were champions. Not even close to being the best team ever. They weren't even the best team of 2007. That distinction goes to the Giants. 18 -1 is a great season if you win the Superbowl. Without the championship ... it a wait until next year choke.
posted by Atheist at 10:46 AM on February 06
Without the championship ... it a wait until next year choke. You go on and on praising the giants in every way possible and then end claiming the patriots choked? That makes absolutely no sense. Did the giants win the game? Or did the patriots let the pressure get to them and give it away? Because you can't have it both ways. One question. How did the defense of the Giants let Moss get behind everybody with a couple of seconds left? Brady throws that ball a little sooner or 5 yards further and the Giants loose with 9 seconds on the clock. And then the 'not even close (your words)' to best team ever becomes just that. Funny how that works. Not even close = 5 yards. 5 more yards and the patriots go from chokers not even close to the best of all time to become one if not the best of all time. I should have had you defend my opinion.
posted by justgary at 11:13 AM on February 06
You may have misunderstood my point or maybe I did not express it well. I believe the Patriots are a great team but not the best team ever not even close. They may have had a good argument had they won but they didn't. My point being is that they were inches away from imortality only to fall into the category of good but not nearly great. The champoinship is everything where greatness is concerned in football. Without it 18 wins are irrelivant because they didn't win when it counted most. I am no Giants fan but they earned the right to be called the best team in football for 2007. So if the Giants are the best team in 2007 where in History does that put the Pats? A good argument for the second best team of 2007 and certainly for the past 6 years they have been the most consistent winners I will reiterate Football is a game of inches and this game was inches from going either way. The Patriots were beaten physically in that game even though they played well. Saying they choked isn't meant to diminish the fact that they were beaten by a better team on that day, but lets face it. They were unbeaten during the season playing a 10-6 wild card in the Superbowl, they had the lead with under 2:00 to play and couldn't stop an offense that was rated nineth in the NFC (forget about how much weaker the NFC was considered than the AFC). Lets just say the Giants played fantastic and the Patriots who were playing for sports immortality just couldn't put the game away with it all on the line. Choke may not be a good choice of words but I just couldn't think of another one.
posted by Atheist at 12:17 PM on February 06
Did the giants win the game? Or did the patriots let the pressure get to them and give it away? Because you can't have it both ways. I don't see how these two are mutually exclusive. The Giants certainly played well and did what was needed to win, but the Patriots were supposed to win this game. New England has the all time QB, star wide receivers, clutch defense, and genius coach. By contrast, Coughlin, Manning, and others for New York have been considered highly questionable not only in seasons past but also earlier this year. I think you can say the Pats blew this one without taking anything away from the New York.
posted by curlyelk at 12:33 PM on February 06
I will reiterate Football is a game of inches and this game was inches from going either way.
posted by YukonGold at 12:34 PM on February 06
I think the issue of the Patriots greatness has to be looked at like this. Had they won the game they would have had the perfect season and by virtue of it being the longest perfect season, I think they would have gone down in history as being the best team ever. No matter how close they came to achieving this, the fact that they did not, drops them pretty far down the list. There is the 72 Dolphins that did everything possible, beat every opponent and won the Championship, nobody has ever equaled that feat so they have to have the number one slot. Two other teams have one the championship while suffering only one loss going 18-1 for the year. 85 Bears and I believe the 84 Niners. I really think the best Patriot teams are the ones that won previous Superbowls, so even those Patriot teams should be rated better than this one. I will say that this years Patriot team is probably the best team in history not to win the Superbowl. I am not sure what that counts for but it's probably true. Patriot fans are funny. If someone points out that they could have easily lost to the Ravens or Giants during the season, they are quick to point out that they didn't and winning is all that counts. So by the same criteria, the winnig championship separates the greats from the not so greats. Close does not count it only makes the defeat harder to swallow. Simply put they came close to greatness but fell short.
posted by Atheist at 12:47 PM on February 06
I think the issue of the Patriots greatness has to be looked at like this. The "issue" of the Patriots' greatness? You make it sound like the federal deficit, or voter registration laws, or racial profiling, or something like that. It's not. It's an angels-on-the-head-of-a-pin discussion topic, the sort that can never be resolved -- and it doesn't need to be. If you're thinking about it as an "issue", that's a problem right there. Then, of course, you go on to create arbitrary and elaborate sets of criteria for measuring greatness, at which point you really ought to just haul out the AD&D rulebooks and the 20-sided dice and call your pursuit what it is.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 01:49 PM on February 06
Isn't the whole point of following sports to create elaborate sets of measurements that prove your initial point? And isn't the point of this site to encourage that sort of talk?
posted by yerfatma at 01:56 PM on February 06
I don't see how these two are mutually exclusive. To a degree no. But when saying one team choked you're saying they crumbled under pressure. You're taking the loss and putting it on the patriots instead of the victory on the giants. Patriot fans are funny. Well, if you're referring to me I'm not a patriots fan. But we'll agree to disagree. When listing the best teams of all time you can't include the patriots because of the super bowl loss. I'll give you that. They lost the right to that claim. And I realize that the only true way we have to measure greatness is to win or lose. Patriots lost = not great. That's fine. But looking at it in the big picture it's not nearly that simple. It reminds me of the OJ verdict. Some people will look at 'not guilty' and that's good enough for them. It's black and white. I choose to look beyond that. I can accept the not guilty verdict and still believe he did it. In this case, as I said before, the patriots can't be considered one of the greatest because they didn't prove it on the field. But that doesn't change the fact that they were one of the most dominant teams in league history. That doesn't mean that if they played the giants 10 times they wouldn't win 7. That doesn't mean they wouldn't wipe the floor with the 72 dolphins. It's just two different outlooks. I can see your side, but I have confidence in mine. Where I don't get your outlook at all is your claim that they were no where near the greatest when you admitted they were 5 yards from a perfect season. Where the victory depended on a play that could have gone either way. If they were no where near the greatest they simply wouldn't have been in that position. The Giants could have scored more points, but they kept screwing up inside the Patriots 30 in the first half. They could easily have had at least two field goals. Let's be consistent. If we're going to give credit to the giants defense give credit to the patriots. Either that or let's also subscribe the patriots' offense to 'screwing up'.
posted by justgary at 02:02 PM on February 06
Well, if you're referring to me I'm not a patriots fan. I wasn't referring to you. When listing the best teams of all time you can't include the patriots because of the super bowl loss. I'll give you that. They lost the right to that claim. And I realize that the only true way we have to measure greatness is to win or lose. Patriots lost = not great. We are in total agreement here. Where I don't get your outlook at all is your claim that they were no where near the greatest when you admitted they were 5 yards from a perfect season. Where the victory depended on a play that could have gone either way. If they were no where near the greatest they simply wouldn't have been in that position. My comment about the last Patriots possession with just seconds left, where Moss ran down the sideline and actually got behind the prevent defense of the Giants, was not to imply how close the Patriots got. I was just wondering how in that situation a guy could actually get past the defense. Of course one explaination is that he had just out run the arm of Brady and the defense let him go. In any case I was not trying to imply the Pats were far out of the game ever. All my points are directed at the fact that you can come close to becoming the greatest ever, but fail on the final step and then not be anywhere close to being considered the greatest. As close as they were to making history, in the end they failed reaching the goal of every team in the league, getting to and winning the championship. All season long when asked about their season the Pats were the first ones to say, undefeated is nice but it's all about winning the superbowl. You seem to be arguing that because they were ever so close to becoming the best they still must be considered among the best. My feeling is just because a few teams came close to beating the Pats during the season their wins were still wins as if they had dominated which is true, and just because they come close to acomplishing something remarkably great they didn't which is the same as missing it by a mile. The game could have gone either way on many plays but in the end even a close loss takes them a long way down the list. Does any remember how Tenessee finished a season, in the Superbowl one yard away from victory as time ran out. The beauty of sports is that sometimes an inch is all that separates greatness from mediocrity.
posted by Atheist at 04:03 PM on February 06
Then, of course, you go on to create arbitrary and elaborate sets of criteria for measuring greatness, at which point you really ought to just haul out the AD&D rulebooks and the 20-sided dice and call your pursuit what it is. You've just described the selection process for any sport's Hall of Fame. Your D&D analogy1 is not great; in fact, it is so far from being great that it reminds me of the 2007 New England Patriots. 1: You failed your Knowledge skill check roll. Dungeons & Dragons hasn't been known as Advanced Dungeons & Dragons since the publication of the Third Edition in 2000.
posted by rcade at 04:10 PM on February 06
My analogy is great; it's your nerdboy sensibilities that are feeling the pain of a too-well-fitting-shoe right about now.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 04:38 PM on February 06
+3 Post of Humorlessness! Swot!
posted by yerfatma at 04:52 PM on February 06
Do I really fit in here? I mean, I know nothing about comic books or D&D. How can I ever discuss a SuperBowl without that skillset? Make me feel better and let's have a Blades of Steel reference or a "electronic football game" comparison please!
posted by BoKnows at 05:22 PM on February 06
Make me feel better and let's have a Blades of Steel reference or a "electronic football game" comparison please! Bo, I had that electronic football game as a kid. Worst. Game. Ever. How about that piece of cotton that they gave you as a "football?" That usually lasted about 1 day. No wonder I slobbered all over PONG and BATTLEZONE when they first came out.
posted by cjets at 05:33 PM on February 06
No wonder I slobbered all over PONG and BATTLEZONE when they first came out. Cjets, it's a good thing that you did not slobber all over the football game. That could have burned the house down.
posted by BoKnows at 05:37 PM on February 06
I freakin' loved electric football. Me and my friends had a league and would go to each others houses to play throughout the schedule. We never actually used the big, stand-up QB, but any player and to throw passes we'd use a small piece of straw. We'd lean the front of the straw on the QBs shoulder and have to hit the receiver with the cotton ball. If we hit him, it was a completion and the game would be turned on and the player would run until stopped. If the cotton ball hit a player on the defense, it was an interception. We loved it. One guy was the Cardinals, and he was practically unbeatable. He's now a janitor at my daughter's elementary school, so I guess his dominance didn't translate into a future financial windfall.
posted by dyams at 06:05 PM on February 06
Ah, Blades of Steel, back when kitting out a team was easy: "And give me a fat defenseman so I can knock people down."
posted by yerfatma at 07:21 PM on February 06
at which point you really ought to just haul out the AD&D rulebooks and the 20-sided dice and call your pursuit what it is. A whole lotta fun?
posted by grum@work at 07:37 PM on February 06
I freakin' loved electric football. Yeah, but did you love it as much as this guy?
posted by goddam at 07:45 PM on February 06
"And give me a fat defenseman so I can knock people down." Isn't that NES Hockey with those fat bastards? Blades of Steel was part hockey, part record scratching. Takesthepass,takesthepass,takesthe,takesthe,takesthepass.
posted by YukonGold at 08:20 PM on February 06
Thanks guys and gals. I knew I could count on you to make me feel better. You got it Yukon. There it is. Blades of Steel. (zzzching) Fight!
posted by BoKnows at 08:52 PM on February 06
Yeah, you're right, it was NES Hockey that was like that. Blades of Steeel went with Double Dribble's approach, with that amazingly life-like cutscene. Plus they had the announcer yelling the game's name. That was cool.
posted by yerfatma at 06:18 AM on February 07
I freakin' loved electric football. Yeah, but did you love it as much as this guy? Although I was a lot younger than this guy, seeing that picture reminded me of how me and my friends were. I used to carry my team in a fishing tackle box, and had them all painted as LA Rams. I had the starters numbered just as the starters on the Rams, and knew what every player could do. You could also do things to adjust the brushes on bottom of the players to get them to move certain ways. We were seriously into it, but again, we were young. Girls took over as our main interest. Now I'd actually like to go back to electric football.
posted by dyams at 07:26 AM on February 07
Electric football: more fun than girls!
posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:50 AM on February 07
I wasnt into the "electronic football" thingy, but I was a BIG FAN of the first coleco-vision handheld electronic sports stuff! little red dashes and blips moving around a teeny tiny field.... I had regular footbal, head to head football (aptly named because the game was sos small you would smack heads occasionally) basketball, hockey and baseball. True to what dyams said, girls were still "icky" at that point.
posted by firecop at 08:09 AM on February 07
Electric football: more fun than girls! A LOT less expensive, too! (To clarify, I've been married quite a while, have a hefty mortgage, vehicle payments, kids, debt, etc. I honestly wouldn't trade any of it (especially the kids) but electric football represents a simpler, long-since-past time in life).
posted by dyams at 08:11 AM on February 07
the definitive commentary on the big game? http://youtube.com/watch?v=2OR9sOID8_s
posted by ajaffe at 09:20 AM on February 07
I noticed nobody dropped any money dropped in the bucket, ajaffe. Heh.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 10:53 AM on February 07
duly noted, lbb. not really a comment on the super bowl by me, but rather an opportunity to get this out there...
posted by ajaffe at 12:24 PM on February 07
Oh, I know. I just thought that it was interesting how the passerbys all seemed sort of like, "Um...Giants? Who? What?"
posted by lil_brown_bat at 01:25 PM on February 07
I'm not sure what time that was shot, but my wife was on her way into work near where the parade started and saw people all-but-passed out on the street in Giants garb at 9 a.m. or so. This gives you a good idea of the mood out there.
posted by ajaffe at 01:29 PM on February 07
300 posts is getting farther away... even with the non-sequiturs
posted by firecop at 10:53 AM on February 09
In an effort to keep this thread going, I have to say the Giants have absolutely zero chance of repeating as Super Bowl Champion. You take into consideration the usual performance of Super Bowl champs the following season, they probably won't even make the playoffs. Does anyone really thing the Giants will win their division? Over the Cowboys? If not, they're going to ride the wild card back to the big game? Face it, it's a one-year thing for the Giants. Great for them, but too bad for any of their fans expecting some sort of dynasty. The Patriots' schedule looks ridiculously easy next year, so I fully expect them to be flirting with perfection again.
posted by dyams at 08:14 PM on February 09
but too bad for any of their fans expecting some sort of dynasty Dude, their fans (myself included) are still on a high from last weekend. I don't think anyone is thinking dynasty. Some that I've talked to are think that there will be improvements, especially with Eli. But I haven't met anyone delusional enough to be talking dynasty.
posted by goddam at 12:13 AM on February 10
Wow, what a fall for LT. From kicking butt to pounding out "We kick they booty." Drugs will ruin your life. A UNC degree down the drain. Sad, so sad.
posted by gfinsf at 01:27 AM on February 10
Maybe the Giants will or maybe they won't repeat next year. It is not an easy thing to do, I will grant you that, dyams. But I could say the Patriots are about ready to crash and burn too, after the sucessful past 6-7 yrs they had. Nobody knows what next season is going to be like. Also "On and given Sunday..." not snarking on the Pats, but it seems like some just can't stand the fact that the Giansts won, or the Cowboys lost...I could go on.
posted by steelergirl at 07:00 AM on February 10
I think the Giants have a young team, that while repeating is obviously a daunting task, can likely win the NFC East. Having said that, that the NFC East has tendency to beat each other up pretty bad during the regular season. The cowboys should still be a quality team, the eagles are up and down so you cant really tell, the Skins just signed Jim Zorn as a head coach so that could go either way. This Division will be up in the air, but I dont think the Giants were as inconsistant as some may think. They played dang good ball the entire second half of the season and through the playoffs. Even without a big chip on their shoulders next season I think they will have more confidence. With rookies like Bradshaw, smith, Moss, Boss, I think the G-Men will be tough to beat. Having said that, injuries are always lurking and can change a season in the blink of an eye.
posted by firecop at 10:49 AM on February 10
Oh gfinsf, LMAO. You know, if I didnt know better I'd say they made that song up!? While my research has led me to many songs with the word "Booty" in the title, I could not identify the "We kicked they booty" song itself. :)
posted by firecop at 10:55 AM on February 10
dyams, is that absolutely zero meaning on the kelvin scale? doing my part for number 300...
posted by lil_brown_bat at 04:20 PM on February 10
Absolutely zero means no vodka left in the Absolut bottle. A true crisis. Onward to 300.
posted by Howard_T at 04:46 PM on February 10
Two hundred and seventy two and counting. That is good grammer right there. Never start a sentence with numerals.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 08:00 PM on February 10
At this point, the content of each post is unimportant. It's all for "the greater good".
posted by BoKnows at 08:24 PM on February 10
Two hundred and seventy two and counting. That is good grammer right there. Never start a sentence with numerals. That's good spelling right there. Never correct someone's grammar while misspelling a word.
posted by tommytrump at 08:55 PM on February 10
Never start a sentence with numerals. Where the hell did that rule come from? Irredisregardless, it wouldn't be a grammar rule, it'd be a style rule.
posted by yerfatma at 06:18 AM on February 11
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