this is off the subject Michael Vick. but there was a situation that happened about 25 miles from where I live. There was a guy that was murdered at his home. when law enforcements and investigators arrived they found that he had about 250 pit bulls on his property. They were chained up like you see them all time, some of them chained with weights, there were treadmills, but a lot of them also were in poor shape as well. when they search inside his house they found all kinds of evidence showing he was selling the dogs all over the country and breeding the dogs as well. so this goes to show another dangerous side of the business. I can find the link, but i wouldn't be able to post because i havent posted enough on here
urall cloolis, You may want to dig deeper and get the whole story next time.Wikepedia only shows part of the story. Michael's family situation was something less than ideal. His mother, Brenda Vick, was 16 when she became pregnant with him. His father, Michael Boddie, was just a year older. Already the parents of a girl, Christina, they did not marry for another five yearsat which point two more children, Marcus and Courtney, had arrived. Boddie was away more often than he was home during his children's formative years. After spending 2 1/2 years in the Army, he bounced from one job to another. Eventually he found steady work in the Newport News shipyards as a sandblaster and spray-painter. His days started early and ended after dark. The responsibility of raising Michael and his siblings fell to Brenda. She became their savior. In fact, all the kids chose to use her last name. With help from her parents, Brenda ran a tight ship. The family lived in the Ridley Circle housing project on the city's east side. She kept the cramped three-bedroom apartment immaculate. Brenda worked at a KMart, spending every spare dollar she earned on the kids. It sounds like their a little bit happier with thier mother, his dad was around to make babies, ...and to throw footballs. Sounds great. Again I could be wrong. yerfatma As far as the "circles" that I refer to are people who come from poor urban and rural backgrounds who cannot seem to give up or get rid of people who don't care about thier welfare when they become ultra rich, primarily athletes,not black, brown or white. I could've said that perhaps. I guess you only think blacks have dogfighting rings. Sorry you feel that way. My assumption only. ESPN only did a major story when they had an inside guy to talk to, AFTER the story broke. I have seen smaller stories in the past, but nothing of any real substance at this level. Just like steroids, snitching,etc, no one wants to expose or out our HEROS! or make them mad and not get the HOT SEAT interview. You can't tell me that this wasn't out their earlier. Vick has a long history of questionable activity, and when an organization signs someone like this to such a monster contract, it should be examined a little further than the average person. Besides, he isn't that good as a QB anyway. You may want to check out your own hang ups before you assume what someone else thinks.
As to the question of what "circles" would get involved with dog fighting, keep in mind that this, and similar "blood" sports were, and still are, popular in many places. Dog fighting, cock fights( don't go there), bull fights, all feature brutal treatment, and killing of animals. All are still legal, or at least tolerated in many parts of the world. Now, us enlightend folks tend to view it harshly, as we prefer to get our thrills watching two humans beat the crap out each other, with the popularity of the Ultimate Fighting League as evidence of this. True, one of the contestants isn't killed, and we can presume that they both had a choice of whether to compete or not. I, for one, have no time for sports where the brutality is the whole point of the sport. I would hope that the league bans him for life. If they do not, he will be back.
Some pretty serious hate. I'm sorry, but I just can't see how this is the most despicable act ever. It's a little overkill. It's not even close to the most despicable act ever, but it's pretty psychotic and very sadistic. Animal fighting of any stripe (and yes, chickens are less cutesy and lovey than dogs) serves only one purpose: bloodlust and half-assed machismo-laden one-upsmanship. There is no single other purpose to breed, 'train'(abuse), and fight an animal. Of course it's not up there with rape or child abuse or anything of that stripe, but it does present a very twisted perception of what's acceptable and what is entertaining, and any therapist/psychologist worth the paper on their wall will tell you that it sets an extremely disturbing precedent for what an individual taking part in such an activity could eventually do and think that it's not abnormal. There's no excuse for breeding dogs (or any animal for that matter) only to play God and decide which of them are worth keeping to play Russian Roulette with and which just don't make the cut and therefore deserve a swift bullet to the brain or much, much worse. I've known pits that were used as bait dogs in fighting rings. These pits were fortunate enough to get saved and have enough trust in either people and (somehow) other dogs to where they could go on with their lives. The vast majority don't. And that's a fucking shame, because Pit Bulls and other Bully breeds were the most common household dogs in the early 20th century, long before Labs or Goldens were even developed. I don't wish Vick harm for what he's done, mainly because it wouldn't do any good. My only hope is that this will lead to federal and local law enforcement agencies cracking down harder on the practice. I'd hope Vick, if he truly was involved in the direct torture (both mentally and physically) of dogs would get his due process, serve an appropriate sentence in Capital P Prison, and never make a single dollar off of his physical ability. But I fear the fact that those that likely had a larger hand in the program are going to get lighter sentences for selling Vick out, which is a shame. I also fear this will trigger a manhunt for bully-breed-based legislation. I hope that doesn't happen, since it's based on absolute bullshit and local-media hype. Yeah, I'm a cutesy-wootsie doggie lover of many stripes, so I'm a bit sensitive to this. I won't try to make some moral analogy about dogs killed :: children diddled, but it's pretty effing bad. I don't want the kind of person that could murder a dog in cold blood living on my street or on my fantasy squad. May he get the help he needs and try again at life, but his time of using athletic ability to earn a paycheck has, at least in my mind, run it's course. Fair enough?
Some pretty serious hate. I'm sorry, but I just can't see how this is the most despicable act ever. It's a little overkill. Not sure if this is directed at me, I said deplorable, not most dispicable act ever. I am an animal lover sure and think that Vick deserves to be punished for his actions but I am in no way calling for an eye for an eye type of justice in this case. Dogfighting and animal cruelty are felonies in Virginia, with animal cruelty charges holding penalties of up to five years in jail for each animal killed. Law makers in VA find these crimes pretty serious to warrent such stiff penalties. firecop I meant he didn't seem overly cruel before the whole dog fighting thing.
I was just browsing thru these posting and came across yerfatma's post that accused patsman73 of dancing around what he really wanted to say. basically calling him a racist. Why is it that every time a black athlete or better yet a black person in general is caught doing something wrong its never their fault, it's always about some white person trying to hold them down. From what I gather this act of brutallity is not condoned by pepole of all races. Making that statement when it is obviously not true shows that until we stop using the race card we are setting up our next generation to continue using this as an excuse to bad behavior. Listen I am not nieve to the fact that there are racist acts every single day but I also know that every time a black person gets caught do somthing wrong racism is not the reason. How can our country get past racism when every time something happens the race card is played. The reason Vick is in this situation is because he made bad decision, he killed dogs, he bet on dog fights, not because of anything anybody else did. Its time for him to stand up and take responsability and its time for us to stop using the race card,stop making excuses for bad behavior. If we dont then our kids and thier kids will continue down the same path usng this as an excuse for there bad behavior. As a father thats something I dread my kids having to deal with.
Why is it that every time a black athlete or better yet a black person in general is caught doing something wrong its never their fault posted by bigpoppav Did you actually read what yerfatma wrote? Can you please point me out where he said it wasn't his fault because he's black? You can't, because he didn't. Were you waiting for someone to bring race into it regardless of context so you could give us that speech? Because it had nothing to do with what was said, I'm guessing yes.
You may want to check out your own hang ups before you assume what someone else thinks. Where was the fallout when Bryant Gumble makes remarks about the winter olympics and the lack of true (black) athletes. Oh Ya, he gets the gig on the NFL network for Thursday night games. Rush makes a "True" statement about McNabb NOT winning anything and getting high profile endorsments. He gets the boot. Michael Irvin smokes crack, he gets vacation. Ozzie Guillen makes homophobic remarks, says "Sorry" nothing happens. Sorry if I completely misunderstood what you meant by "circles". What did you mean?
Aside from that, I haven't heard race bandied around in the media or by Vick or his lawyers. Oddly enough, it's an issue which, aside from here and probably countless other blogs on the subject, has been largely absent.
I can't help but think that before everything is said and done, that the IRS will be on Vick yet too. Let's hope that the lier has started to grow up a bit through all this, and doesn't give the sentencing judge the BIRD when he's sentenced! I had to laugh on last saturday morning I heard something on ESPN. Someone had sent a bunch of Vick's jersy's to a human shelter in Atlanta, with a note "You can use these to clean up the kennels". Poetic justice I thought. What bothers me about his lieing about all this is that how can you put any trust in him as your QB any more. QB is a position that leads the team. Having said that, he shows no real good "lead by example", qualities now. I personal would just rather not see him in the NFL anymore. Maybe now the Falcons can move on now. Sadly all of this will come back to BITE him when it comes ballet time for the hall of fame.
robi8259, I don't think it will BITE him when it comes to ballet time for HOF since he was not even close to getting there in the first place.
Black Power, Vick was set up? How so?
Uh, apoch, it's just bishop spewing crap.
I would also like to see the thread play out because the problem with the first thread was the apologists who said "wait and see", "innocent til proven guilty", etc. Now that their man has plead guilty and ADMITTED he TORTURED and EXECUTED DOGS I would like to see if they'll even show up here. How do you get from "wait and see" if the allegations are true to someone being an apologist for dog torturing? Show up and say what? Now, we know and Vick did a terrible thing. Is that vindication for those who railed against him while they were just allegations? Anyway, I guess I am in the minority (or an apologist) because I hope Vick does his time, gets some therapy, and gets an opportunity to get his life together again. I keep thinking that people are revered for playing brutal games like football, but then we have these expectations that that brutality will never seep out off the field. I'm sure lots of people have no problem with that, but I can see how they can get confused. Additionally, I don't enjoy watching any activity whose purpose is one living being inflicting harm on another one, that includes dogfighting, ultimate fighting, boxing, violent nature shows, etc. It's pretty much all the same in my mind and I expect enjoyment of those things are all based on the same sort of instincts.
Ufez (re: Weedy's comment about "some pretty serious hate"): Of course it's not up there with rape or child abuse or anything of that stripe Of course, but I think Weedy has a point. It had struck me that the several threads about Vick and dogs had prompted some expressions of outrage that -- my subjective impression -- seemed both more frequent and more extreme than what we see here in the case of "rape or child abuse or anything of that stripe". That's totally unscientific, and I could be wrong about that, but it does seem to me that folks here are a little more blase about violence against humans, and quite a bit more shocked, angered and vengeful at violence against animals. tommytrump: Uh, apoch, it's just bishop spewing crap. Somehow I don't think so, but that's just my opinion. Just doesn't read like Bishop to me.
I wish that Samuel quote read "Reason Mother Fucker! Do you use it?!"
I'm with lbb, that's so far from Bishop as to be amusing.
Somehow I don't think so, but that's just my opinion. Just doesn't read like Bishop to me. I agree. Bishop has some strong opinions and is very vocal about them but that doesn't seem like him at all.
Sadly all of this will come back to BITE him when it comes ballet time for the hall of fame. Let's just hope we don't have to see Peter King or any of the other hall voters in a tutu when its ballet time for the Hall of Fame. firecop -- thanks for the pointer on federal sentencing.
I don't care if it's Bishop or not. I'm curious as to why, and how, he thinks Vick was set up.
apoch: the commenter is probably being facetious at best and a troll at worst. Set phasers on ignore.
Somehow I don't think so, but that's just my opinion. Just doesn't read like Bishop to me. Off topic but just to get this out of the way, that is bishop. After he was banned Bishop starting sending disturbing emails littered with racist and homophobic slurs. After the first I just had them bounced to another dummy account for safe keeping. It's very easy even without seeing his IP to know when he creates a new account. I banned Aces Full and obviously he got upset. But those who believe he was a passionate guy fighting the good fight with the tendency to go overboard couldn't be more wrong. You're seriously wasting your time with him.
Wow. Cool. Spoken as a fan of entropy and people going off the deep end.
Can you just say what you mean? If you want to talk about why black people are awful, by all means, go ahead. I do hope that was a joke. People are not perfect. We all make mistakes and what Mike Vick did is no different. I was one that said, "We should wait and see" and we have done just that and now know that he took part in what was being said. Does that make him an evil person? No. Was what he did, wrong and illegal? Yes. Now, if he admits his guilt and does his time (which I don't think will be more than 18 months), should he get on with his life or should he be ostracized? Should he be able to go back to playing football or will the public act like they're living the perfect life and have never done anything wrong in their lives before? I love dogs but living in New Jersey, I've heard of dogfighting years before any of this transpired even though I never even thought of taking any part in it, and as everyone may know, Jersey isn't even close to being considered, 'down south'. This isn't necessarily a 'black' problem, this is more of a 'society' problem and the sooner we realize that, the sooner we can all have more positive dialog instead of acting as if this only happens in urban areas.
Can you just say what you mean? If you want to talk about why black people are awful, by all means, go ahead. I do hope that was a joke. I'll try to be more obvious from here on out.
[T]his place should be called KKKfilter. Crackers. Oh man, I hate when there are some really incendiary remarks put up and they get deleted before I get a chance to see them. Who wants to be Sportsfilter's white Jesse Jackson?
It had struck me that the several threads about Vick and dogs had prompted some expressions of outrage that -- my subjective impression -- seemed both more frequent and more extreme than what we see here in the case of "rape or child abuse or anything of that stripe". That's totally unscientific, and I could be wrong about that, but it does seem to me that folks here are a little more blase about violence against humans, and quite a bit more shocked, angered and vengeful at violence against animals. Sure, there's been an awful lot of knee-jerk "lock him up with a dozen randy Rottweilers" trollish comments, but such is the case on SpoFi (and a lot of other internet places) today. But when was the last time an athlete of Vick's status copped to committing such a heinous crime? When was the last time an athlete plea bargained into association with rape or child abuse? I certainly don't have the widest sports-memory, but nothing springs to mind. Besides, the moral relativism card doesn't fit into play here. The man has admitted that he was involved with some seriously disturbing practices, things that a psychologically sound person wouldn't dream of doing. Is my hope that he no longer make a dollar on the football field or in commercials ever again going too far?
THX, sorry this post is late, but as a convicted felon (assuming he pleads guilty and serves time as expected at this point), securing a visa to Canada is gonna be out of the question for a few years, so rule out a future career in the CFL. Also, there was a helluva flak with the other CFL team owners when Toronto signed Ricky Williams, so I don't see anyone there even considering making a suggestion. I think Matt Millen is the only GM with the nerve to even bring up the suggestion of signing Vick and not getting fired on the spot. There's one other alternative, though. Does the Arena Bowl halftime show include "wardrobe malfunctions"?
Ufez: Sure, there's been an awful lot of knee-jerk "lock him up with a dozen randy Rottweilers" trollish comments, but such is the case on SpoFi (and a lot of other internet places) today. Maybe, but more than a few of those were from folks whom I don't consider trolls. Again, subjective impression only. But when was the last time an athlete of Vick's status copped to committing such a heinous crime? When was the last time an athlete plea bargained into association with rape or child abuse? I certainly don't have the widest sports-memory, but nothing springs to mind. Not sure how a plea bargain enters into it -- is conviction enough? Seems like a lot of people, not just on SpoFi, are having the "feed him to the dogs" reaction to Michael Vick...but I don't recall quite the same public response to Mike Tyson post-conviction. Au contraire, in that case there were more than a few "bitch deserved it" responses. Besides, the moral relativism card doesn't fit into play here. "Moral relativism card"? What, is everything a "card' nowadays? People aren't playing some kind of card when they wonder how the graphic nature of the anger directed at Vick compares to the ho-hum attitude with which some crimes against humans have been greeted. It strikes me as weird and a little disturbing. I'm not playing some card when I say that. The man has admitted that he was involved with some seriously disturbing practices, things that a psychologically sound person wouldn't dream of doing. Is my hope that he no longer make a dollar on the football field or in commercials ever again going too far? No, it isn't. See, it isn't about relativism of any kind, nor about some New Bedford defense. There's a difference between hot-air emotional reactions ("I hope they get a pack of poodles to gnaw his nuts off!") and consequences. What you're talking about are consequences. I'm talking about the differences in emotional reactions. Two different things.
But when was the last time an athlete of Vick's status copped to committing such a heinous crime? Rae Carruth, though I'd say his crime was more heinous. I think part of the strength of the anti-Vick reaction is that he was still held in high esteem by a lot of NFL fans prior to these allegations. Personally, I thought Vick's transgressions were more comedic than awful prior to this -- especially the Ron Mexico stuff. Now, though, I won't be upset if the guy has thrown his last pass.
On a football note: The Trade: Doesn't it seem that the Chargers' deal for Tomlinson is even more impressive? Poor Bobby Petrino. This could be the worse job in the NFL right now. A star player is lost and the media spotlight on the team is going to be intense. I expect Blank to go after some of Vick's signing bonus. Are these ever successful? I know it was with Ricky Williams (but he had Master P working on his contract so I'm not sure that it counts).
bperk, I think Master P only did his first contract with the Saints -- wasn't it renegotiated at some point before Williams got to Miami? Meanwhile, as far as football penalties to Vick go, Goodell doesn't have to do a thing until Vick's out of prison -- he will probably wait to suspend him until then...
As far as Petrino's job being tough, I think he's got an automatic scapegoat now if he loses 12 games. "It's Vick's fault." he'll say.
I haven't seen such a windfall of craziness since the Lawrence Phillips or Art Schlichter debacles. Shows how athletes are coddled and allowed to cheat their way through life. But, you eventually reap what you sow.... As I have read some of the bickering that is on this site and I am amazed at how people treat this as such a "small" issue - like the one that said "it was only dog fighting". I don't think it was simply dog fighting, but the inhumane way in which he, along with others, killed the losing dogs that enraged the activists. I think he is knee deep in the whole thing. They have a 19 page indictment on him and another indictment the Feds were going to file if he didn't plead guilty. It involved charges under the RICO laws and he would have faced possibly 20-25 years for that if convicted. And, he would have been convicted as he had at least 7 of his "friends" that were belly-up on him. The RICO charges would have been much worse than what he is facing now. If he were to deserve any sympathy from the public, it would be for the stupidity he was displaying prior to this happening. Flipping off the home crowd, a bottle that had a compartment for his pot, and then lying to the commissioner about this whole thing. If he had admitted first, he would have gotten off lightly, but he could end up serving the full 5 years. The fact that he bankrolled the activities and was the money man, that only puts him in more trouble with the Feds and the NFL. I seriously doubt that he will ever play in the NFL again. He is not a great QB anyway. He is a very gifted athlete and a very elusive runner. But, he isn't ever going to be a prototypical pocket passer. His best bet is in the CFL.
His best bet is in the CFL. Explain please? He's a convicted felon. He's going to have a hell of a time crossing the Canadian border. Canadians read the newpapers and watch the news just as much as Americans. CFL teams are not about to risk offending their ticket buyers for a short term fix on the field. I know as a fan that attends 1 or 2 games a year in Toronto that I would never buy another Argonaut ticket if they signed him.
Too bad they just remade The Longest Yard.
Too bad they just remade The Longest Yard Michael Vick/ Adam Sandler Who is worse for America? Or is that more of a locker room debate?
His best bet is in the CFL. Explain please? He's a convicted felon. He's going to have a hell of a time crossing the Canadian border. Another famous, troubled athlete with lots of talent was given a permit to play in the CFL despite a criminal record, Lawrence Phillips.
People aren't playing some kind of card when they wonder how the graphic nature of the anger directed at Vick compares to the ho-hum attitude with which some crimes against humans have been greeted. It strikes me as weird and a little disturbing. You're not alone in that thinking. Rae Carruth attempted to murder his pregnant wife. Laurence Phillips dragged a woman down several flights of stairs and banged her head against a mailbox repeatedly. Christian Peter raped 2 women. Leonard Little killed a wife and mother. These guys served little if any time, had numerous opportunites to play again in the NFL, and were mere blips on the screen as far as media coverage regarding their "atrocities" I think you're right on the money wondering why "folks here are a little more blase about violence against humans, and quite a bit more shocked, angered and vengeful at violence against animals"
edit: Sorry...I guess Rae Carruth didn't fit in that very well as he's gone for good
I think the problem with the stories mentioned above is the average person on the street has no idea who Leonard Little is. These things happened and they weren't news to those people. The same people hear "Michael Vick!" and they are suddenly interested because he is way more of a household name. Mothers who don't know anything about football have their kids begging to buy Vick jerseys or Vick shoes or Vick this or Vick that. Because of this, more of America (and the world) was interested in hearing the story. Instead of feeling the Vick story got too much attention (well, maybe a little), I think it's a case of those stories not getting enough. News outlets aren't to blame here. They reported more on these I bet than when some Joe Blow did the same things. As fans, I think it's our fault for allowing these teams to make these kinds of concessions. PETA and other animal rights will most likely do all they can to make any team wanting Vick, when and if he is allowed to play again, feel the pressure. This is what should be done in those cases above (except for the Carruth case obviously as no action will ever be necessary there). St. Louis should have felt more heat for holding onto Little. I didn't know much about the Christian Peter story, just some vague facts, but after reading up on it, this is exactly what happened when New England drafted him (although he was only ever charged and convicted with one rape ... not to say the other didn't happen). They ended up severing all ties to him and he ended up playing for the Giants and other teams. Maybe he turned his life around, who knows, but maybe these teams should've felt more pressure to not allow him the opportunity. And please don't confuse this with the right to earn a living as I feel playing in the NFL is a privilege, not a right. He would have been free to dig ditches to earn a living.
Put him into the ring with a couple of the dogs he trained, that would be his trial. Grampsw
please don't sign your comments.
Oh yeah! A Mike Vick thread I somehow missed. Without reading the comments I will predict that all of the following have taken place: a) It has been suggested that Vick's genetalia be chewed off by a dog b) Someone has bizzarely eluded to horse racing as being as cruel as dog fighting c) Racial epitaphs have been traded, knowingly or unknowingly d) "You just don't understand thug life" e) Someone other than Vick is at fault, most notably society, Roger Goodell and the media f) Atlanta fans reminded about how screwed they are with the injury to DJ Shockley Now to start reading in reverse to see if my career change to TV Psychic is not too far fetched.
I always thought Vick was a great athlete and a lousy QB. It doesn't matter how well you throw the ball or run around on the field without the real qualities of a great QB, leadership, good judgement, and a certain level of intelligence you can't be called a great quarterback. Vick will have to face the legal consequences of his actions, but his behavior has exposed him for all that he lacks. If he is ever able to return to the NFL it won't be as Quarterback (which is by nature a leadership role) it will be as player in another position. He certainly has the physical abilities. I only wish someone can explain to me how you can be gifted with all this talent, rewarded with outrageous money and celebrity status, and still be this stupid. Was this guy even thinking for a second? The most shocking thing is what it says about him as a person. Let face it, he didn't do it for the money, and he didn't do it for his wonderfull friends who are so quick to roll on him. The real point is he did not do it out of the goodness of his heart, it was the badness of his heart. He did it because he enjoyed the sadistic pleasure of watching dogs kill each other and for the fun of murdering a helpless dog on occaision. That in a nutshell is why normal people are so upset. Fighting dogs may be an acceptable sport in some societies. Even putting a dog down humanely can be forgiven, but when someone wants to drown, electrocute or just slam a dog to its death, it goes beyond any excuse. These crimes were not crimes of passion or necessity, it's clear he has a sadistic streak and the torture, mutilation, and killing of animals is how most serial mass murderers begin their career. If it weren't for his athletic ability, what kind of contribution to society do you think Michael Vick would be making?
Now to start reading in reverse to see if my career change to TV Psychic is not too far fetched. Aaaah, so you hit a couple of softballs. Don't quit yer day job!
I only wish someone can explain to me how you can be gifted with all this talent, rewarded with outrageous money and celebrity status, and still be this stupid. Seriously? I'll give it a try. No one's perfect. Everyone makes mistakes. Athletic talent does not translate into good decisionmaking skills. People who are talented can still be really nasty.
Seriously? I'll give it a try. No one's perfect. Everyone makes mistakes. Athletic talent does not translate into good decisionmaking skills. People who are talented can still be really nasty. ...and money, privilege and popularity are multipliers: both your good impulses and your bad impulses have more far-reaching effects when you've got the wherewithal to act on them and the visibility to be noticed.
Yeah, I would say, as suggested upthread, if you spent your entire teens and early 20s being told you were awesome and could do no wrong by fawning adults, you might start to believe it.
I have been trying to come up with a way to say exactly what the last two post said, only bperk and lbb said it 50 times better than I could have. Well said.
I don't know how often "upthread" is used so I may sound like a huckleberry here, but good use of words.
Another famous, troubled athlete with lots of talent was given a permit to play in the CFL despite a criminal record, Lawrence Phillips. I know Phillips had a criminal record, but were any of the offences felonies? I can find no information indicating that they were.
Seriously? I'll give it a try. No one's perfect. Everyone makes mistakes. Athletic talent does not translate into good decisionmaking skills. Wow that explains why Atlanta never had a chance with Vick as a quarterback. He could run and he could throw but he just had bad decision making skills. This could be a real red flag for all those teams who are looking for a QB. Make a note, good decision making skills a must! Gee when I said this stuff about Vick way before this dog fighting scandal, I was accused of racism, it turns out his lousy decision making skills were noticable to me on the field way before they were confirmed off the field.
To the Canadian that said they wouldn't let him play in the CFL because they watch the news too. Lawrence Phillips played and he was convicted of assault and battery and a few other counts. To suggest that the Canadian owners won't want to offend the ticket buyers by signing someone like that is outrageous. Get real. Talent that isn't good enough to play in the NFL traditionally travel North. As for the stuff on Ray Carruth, he is serving life for the murder of his pregnant wife and won't be playing again. Maybe on a prison team. As for the others, I don't know much about them and could care less. Apparently, they are not being paid 130 million and throwing it away for stupidity.
Vick's NFL career over? Keep dreaming. Famous athletes have done worse and still received a second (or more) chance. Vick will apologize, pay a fine, and be picked up by some desperate team willing to take a chance. Unfortunately, many people will cry "forgiveness", but it's really a lack of accountability. As long as you say you're sorry it's okay to screw up.
I wanna see some of those racial epitaphs that were eluded to.
I believe that as I suspected, Vick can't go to Canada with a federal conviction on his record. Little issue of crossing international borders and all. There is quite a difference in this regard compared to the standard criminal or civil case. Vick's charges are federal and with them, carry the weight of the U.S. government. While Lawrence Phillips' crimes were undoubtedly heinous, legally, if I'm not mistaken, they don't keep him from travelling. Of course, I don't actually know from nothin'.
To the Canadian that said they wouldn't let him play in the CFL because they watch the news too. Lawrence Phillips played and he was convicted of assault and battery and a few other counts. To suggest that the Canadian owners won't want to offend the ticket buyers by signing someone like that is outrageous. Get real. Talent that isn't good enough to play in the NFL traditionally travel North. As for the stuff on Rae Carruth, he is serving life for the murder of his pregnant wife and won't be playing again. Maybe on a prison team. Get real? Okay rook, I'll get real. Where did anyone in any thread (let alone me) indicate that Michael Vick isn't good enough to play in the NFL. His problem is going to be that after spending the next 12-18 months in a federal prison, in all probability he will be under suspension from the NFL. If that in fact is the case, he will be ineligible to play in the CFL, even if he were to be allowed into the country. Michael Vick has pleaded guilty to a felony, similar to what we in Canada call an indictable offence. This is much more serious than a misdemeanor, or what we call a summary offence. We Canadians tend to frown on allowing felons as Americans call them, into our country. Rae Carruth is not serving life, he is serving 18-24 years. He'll be 44 when eligible for parole. To me that is not life imprisonment, and no, he probably won't be playing professional football again. The woman he murdered (Cherica Adams) was not his wife, but a woman he had been dating. Is that real enough for ya Mickster? You are correct about one thing. Most of Canada is north of most of the U.S.A.
I wanna see some of those racial epitaphs that were eluded to. "Beneath these mountains lies the remains of the White Race, to lame to live."
I wanna see some of those racial epitaphs that were eluded to. Well, I know there was some confusion about a "cracker" reference on Sylvester Graham's tombstone. Said confusion undoubtedly came about due to excessive lack of mastery of the ol' domain, there.
Yeah tommytrump, you sit up there and enjoy your CFL and the quality of your football. Go Winnepeg!!! I know that most of our players that enjoyed a stellar career in college that can't play at the next level here, will opt to go to Canada. I am not going to dispute laws in your fine country as to whether or not they are a "summary offense"? Don't even know what the hell that is. But, you go on and think what you want. As for Ray, I might have mistaken whether she was his wife (Cherica Adams) or girlfriend. Been awhile back. I really believe that is a minor issue in the bigger picture. Another words, who really gives a damn. He killed her. MURDER. Why pick at little details when the bigger issues are she is dead. And, whether it is life or not, you might be right, but I believe it was a life sentence. Usually murder is. What is your point anyway? You just got an itch to scratch? I don't remember pulling your chain. I did state the fact that the CFL did open their arms to Lawrence Phillips and it seems to have hit a nerve with you. Truth hurt? So, what is the matter with you - too real for you too? He did play there did he not?
Couldn't help but notice that's a big ol' chin you got there, Mickster. Or, to put it another way: telling someone to "get real" is rude and dismissive. Sometimes it's called for, but even when it is, you shouldn't act all surprised if you say "get real" to someone and they take exception to being treated as if they were a slow-witted child.
Yes, well dogfighting is bad, m'kay. I don't think anyone is trying to suggest otherwise. It's cruel and brutal. Everyone agrees. Did Vick drown the dogs himself? Was he actually doing any of the actual literal horrible shit? Or was he paying for it all and other sociopaths doing it? I think there's a bit of a difference in light of such outrage. He's a dick, for sure, but he's hardly the anti-christ. He's the money, from what I can tell. Plus, I just think it's a combination of inflating factors. Everyone gets to take the popular position and scream about the decline of society (like there is a legion of dogfighters out there waiting to sick their dogs on you - they just need a leader) and yummy celebrity driven/public funded interest groups jumping on the opportunity like a, well, dog on a bone, and it makes a lot more noise than my rational brain suggests it should. He was financing a dogfighting ring. In Spain, something similar gets you a sword and the wickedest outfit going. ... And Laurence Phillips sucked in the CFL.
Yeah tommytrump, you sit up there and enjoy your CFL and the quality of your football. Go Winnepeg!!! I do enjoy the CFL, and the quality of football played in the league is terrific. The CFL and NFL are 2 different games. They require different talents. I enjoy both games. The CFL is a more exciting game, with more action, while the NFL is more structured and precise. It's Winnipeg. However, I am a Toronto Argonaut fan. Ottawa Rough Riders in my youth, but the franchise no longer exists, so I adopted my hometown club as my new team. I am not going to dispute laws in your fine country as to whether or not they are a "summary offense"? Don't even know what the hell that is. But, you go on and think what you want. That's why I explained it to you, that a summary offence is like a misdemeanor. It is an offence that is less severe than a felony, or as we call them, an indictable offence. As for Ray, I might have mistaken whether she was his wife (Cherica Adams) or girlfriend. Been awhile back. I really believe that is a minor issue in the bigger picture. Another words, who really gives a damn. He killed her. MURDER. Why pick at little details when the bigger issues are she is dead. And, whether it is life or not, you might be right, but I believe it was a life sentence. Usually murder is. Whatever you do, don't let the facts get in the way of a good story. Rae Carruth was not convicted of murder. He was convicted on 3 counts though. Those being: 1. Conspiracy to commit murder 2. Shooting into an occupied vehicle 3. Using an instrument to destroy an unborn child. He didn't kill her. His co-conspirators killed her. He was not sentenced to life. He was given a sentence of 18 to 24 years of which he must serve 18 years and 11 months before being eligible for parole. What is your point anyway? You just got an itch to scratch? My point is to be as accurate as possible and deal in realities, not presumptions. No. I don't remember pulling your chain. I don't have a chain for you to pull. I did state the fact that the CFL did open their arms to Lawrence Phillips and it seems to have hit a nerve with you. Truth hurt? I never said that Lawrence Phillips didn't play in the CFL. My position on that was that I believe he was never convicted of a felony, but of less serious crimes, and as a result would not have had the same restrictions on entering Canada placed on him that someone with a felony record would. So, what is the matter with you - too real for you too? He did play there did he not? What do you think is the matter with me? How could what you write be too real? There were too many falsehoods in your statements for that to be true. Yes, Phillips played in Canada. If you want some educational reading on criminals in professional football I recommend you pick up a copy of Don Yaeger's book: "Pros and Cons: The Criminals Who Play in the NFL.
In Spain, something similar gets you a sword and the wickedest outfit going. 
Tito Santana agrees!
Here in da Big D,the radio chatter ESPN etc was a brief nod to how aweful Vicks crime is and then the usual patter about what his sentence might be and that he SHOULD be barred from ever taking a snap again.Fuck the football career. In my world he could do whatever after rehabilitation which would include psychological torture (ie letting him believe he would be subjected to the same treatment and mercy he showed to the dogs,getting the third degree by good cop badcop investigators and so forth.This would continue until he underwent a catharsis of self understanding.Then maybe he could be considered fit to live in our society.
The woman he murdered (Cherica Adams) was not his wife, but a woman he had been dating. He didn't kill her. His co-conspirators killed her. I'm confused.
This isn't a forum to attack one another for a simple opinion, just a forum. If you don't like to play, go home. posted by Mickster He's not attacking you. He was responding to what you wrote. That's what we do here. It's a community blog. You don't have to respond, of course. In fact, it you're just going to respond with a stream of insults, it would be for the better if you didn't. you obviously have too much time on your hands and couldn't care less of what you think of my opinions There is a difference between being thought of as a fool, and opening your mouth and proving it. You prove my point. Get a life and stick to the topics.
The woman he murdered (Cherica Adams) was not his wife, but a woman he had been dating. He didn't kill her. His co-conspirators killed her. I'm confused. He did not do the actual killing. He stopped his vehicle in front of hers, his partners in crime pulled their car up next to hers and did the shooting. He was the catalyst and his actions led to her death. As a result he was convicted on the charges outlined above. However, he was not the trigger man. He was responsible for her death, but he did not commit the act of killing her. He was charged with, but acquitted of 1st degree murder.
I am checking out and won't come back to see your ten page report Well thank goodness THAT guys gone. Could you believe what he was wearing? I have more important thing to do. One wouldn't want to try to do too much at once anyway.
