skeet, just stop. For the love of asterisks and CAPS and parenthesis and quotation marks, please just stop.
Bishop, my word, get a grip. The Vick thing became a Federal case because the Commonwealth Attorney for Surry County, Gerald Poindexter, had a search warrant in hand backed by a great deal of solid information, and chose to let the warrant expire rather than execute it. Poindexter is African American. Not only did he not move on Mike Vick, he was also the one that started hollering out the race card when the Feds took over after he chose to do nothing about Vick. BTW, it wasn't the FBI with guns blazing that moved in on this poor, unfortunate high profile black athlete. It was the Department of Agriculture. Mr Poindexter, you seem to be spineless, clueless, a poor imitation of Jesse and Al, and low on professional ethics. Maybe you were even trying to cut a brother some slack by looking the other way. For your meritorious conduct, you have been chosen to receive an exclusive, all-expenses paid double bunking with Mike Nifong. Rich McKay and Arthur Blank of the Falcons, if you have brains in your heads, you have known for a while that things were not right with your star player. For allowing Mike Vick to be himself in his own special way without apparently conducting any sort of investigation of your own into his conduct, for steadfastly supporting and enabling him through his travails, for being in such denial that you traded your #2 QB while local and national law enforcement officials were becoming very interested in your main guy, and for being on a European vacation this week as the heavy shit was being handed down by the grand jury when any executive with a clue would have been at home and on the case, trying to figure out where this bad scene was headed - for all your negligence, dereliction of duty, and lack of resolve or initiative, you have been chose to be triple-bunked with Myles Brand. (For those who don't remember, he was Bob Knight's boss at Indiana who didn't have the balls or brains to fire Knight despite having an overwhelming amount of just cause.) Mr. Blank, if you can't bring yourself to get Vick gone, you know what they say at Home Depot: "You can do it. We can help". Commissioner Goodell, when is that press conference going to get started?
- dangerously walking on eggshells here as this post is about a business decision and not race - Hey who else saw those scathing headlines about Matt Schaub the other day? What? You didn't? Maybe it was worth the gamble to keep one of the most exciting field presences in a long time behind center but... I would have thrown my eggs in with the more modestly talented and less allegation prone QB. Well maybe not in fantasy football where there are no negative points assigned for dog fighting and animal cruelty indictments.
gradys_kitchen..... I think you have some scrambled eggs in your basket!
Skeet0311, you're not helping. There is a way to say what you're trying to get across without using explosive words.
Bishop... After reading your weirdest rant yet, I feel I must ask: do you condone, and/or participate in, dogfighting? From this link, you can clearly see the preferred methods of euthenasia for cats and dogs: Dogs and Cats Preferred methods Barbiturates By far the most acceptable technique for euthanasia of dogs and cats is i.v. administration of sodium pentobarbital at a dose of 150 mg/kg, with almost immediate unconsciousness followed by respiratory depression. Inhalant anesthetics Halothane or isoflurane may be used as an acceptable means of euthanasia. Exposure should be maintained for at least one minute after apparent clinical death (cessation of respiration). Vital signs should be checked for at least five minutes after exposure to ensure that unintended recovery does not occur. You'll note that nowhere in there does it recommend tossing the dog in a bathtub with a hair dryer in it, or holding it underwater until it drowned, or beating it to death, or grabbing it by its hind legs and swinging it like a baseball bat against the ground until it dies. Guess who else tortured animals? Jeffrey Dahmer. Ted Bundy. Ed Gein. John Wayne Gacy. All white guys, and all sick fucks. Hope that makes you feel better. When you rant and rave about Steve Foley, or Pacman Jones, or Ron Artest, or anybody else, depite your occasional over-the-top hyperbole, I can see where you're coming from, and appreciate your point. Here, however, you've gone off the deep end. Comparing euthanizing Barbaro with torturing dogs is the most half-assed leap of logic I've ever seen. This isn't a fake water bottle with an "unknown particulate" inside. This is barbaric and inhumane. Big difference. To the people saying that Michael Vick should be tortured, mauled by dogs, have his nuts chopped off, etc., you're incorrect. He should have his day in court, and if he's convicted beyond reasonable doubt, should suffer the legally accepted punishment for his crimes. Disband the lynch mob and leave it to the authorities. Get a fucking clue people. Physician, heal thyself.
Beaverboard, I think you need to get a grip. Prosecutors let search warrants expire all the time for thousands of different procedural reasons. Implying that Poindexter did it because he was black to give another black man a break is just racist. I would have thrown my eggs in with the more modestly talented and less allegation prone QB. Yeah, I bet the wish they held on to Schaub now. Maybe they will try to get Culpepper. Harrington in Miami was the same as Harrington in Detroit. He is not the answer.
Sorry Jerseygirl, but, that was the way I was taught. Guess I'll have to start a post on hanging my teacher.
Also, for all of you thinking of interesting and blood thirsty ways of punishing vick using the very dogs he 'may' have tortured, here is my suggestion: https://secure.hsus.org/01/
makeadonation?
qp_source=gabam3
I think one other thing to think about is if Vick is thrown out of the NFL, he is no Joe Montana, Brady or Manning....At best, he is an excitng player who disappoints. If you were a GM, would you trade picks or players for him?? Next year if Atlanta drafts the kid from Louisville, and they will try with Petrino, there is a real potential for excitment. What "real" football fan would want Vick as his/her QB to win a Super Bowl. Not me and I bet not you.
Sorry Jerseygirl, but, that was the way I was taught. Guess I'll have to start a post on hanging my teacher. Comment icon posted by skeet0311 at 9:53 AM CDT on July 18 Yeah, only if it is sports related, you will.
Vick is screwed. A couple of things: 1. While an indictment doesn't mean guilty and other big name athletes have escaped conviction, those points ignore the key under-lying fact here: this is a federal indictment. The old adage about how one can indict a ham sandwich is a comment on the indicting process. It is not a comment on the likelihood of conviction. If this was state court (where OJ and Ray, etc were tried), the indictment would be less important and the prosecutors vastly less talented. But this is federal court. Federal prosecutors don't proceed with indictments until they know they will get a conviction. The conviction rate is above 95% of those who are indicted. Given that the indictment included the testimony of at least four cooperating witnesses that federal prosecutor thought was strong enough to bring before the grand jury, coupled with the fact that one or more of the other three guys will likely roll on Vick as he is the main target, that 95% conviction rate is probably up towards the 99.5% conviction rate. And he is in the rocket docket in federal court in Richmond, so the defense won't be able to use delay tactics to build a defense or drag it out. And everything about federal court is worse for him: more competent prosecutors, stricter judges, more prosecution-friendly procedural rules, more prosecution-friendly jury pools, and on and on. In short, this indictment means a whole hell of a lot. There is at least a 95% chance he is convicted. 2. The federal law he was charged under falls under the RICO statute. That this is under federal law and not state law further increases the likelihood of jail time.. Whereas the state case would be whether he broke the dog fighting statute, under Federal Law, the issue is gambling on an illegal activity. Suddenly, the same act which would just be dog-fighting under state law, becomes racketeering, gambling, mail fraud, income tax invasion, criminal acts across state lines, involvement in a racketeer influenced corrupt organization, and a host of other federal crimes that all up the ante. Because he is being charged with conspiracy as well and being charged under racketeering statutes, he can be criminally liable for anything that was done by his co-conspirators or this organization run out of his property. 3. Do not rule out the possibility of further indictments against him. _____ This guy is hosed. Whether he plays football again is the least of his concerns. He is facing a near certainty of jail fines and enormous fines.
Sorry Jerseygirl, but, that was the way I was taught. Guess I'll have to start a post on hanging my teacher. How about you try playing by the rules of this site instead? 0 for 5...
To further what dios said.
dios, thanks for that. When I mentioned the indicting a ham sandwich, it was more in the long-since-dashed hopes of pouring a little water on things. Unfortunately, it looks like the water was followed by a bit of electricity in-thread. Of all the things my father ever taught me, one of the most valuable was: "If you commit a crime, don't cross state lines doing it." Yes, yes he did.
Can we all just get along! This has nothing to do with black athletes or white athelets, Dahmer or Manson. Vick made a dumb ass decision period. Guilty or not; this will effect the income and image of the Falcons and the NFL. It's all about the MONEY people. How the hell do you own property and not have a clue whats happening on it ? If that is the case, he should serve time just for being that ignorant. If you call yourself a professional then be that on all levels. BACK TO THE MONEY. If innocent; does anyone really believe that Falcon fans and players are going to rally around a QB that just does'nt seem to have what it takes to get them to the next level? (Not) How many animal activist are Falcon fans? How many tickets will sell just to see Vick play now? Watch those number 7 jerseys start to pile up. How many parents are going to actually run out and get litte jimmy (or susie) a Vick jersey now? BOTTOM LINE you f... with the image of the league, you f... with the image of my team, that f.... with the money; so f... you Michael Vick.
I hope that I'm not throwing petrol on the fire here, but I also think that where the treatment of animals is concerned, human nature is a bit interesting. Whenever there is a human tragedy, people seem to respond with empathy for those suffering. But when an animal suffers, the reaction seems to be more vocal and outraged. As an example, when the local food bank is low on donations, which is, like, always, public reaction a bit mild. But when the animal shelter is low on pet chow, people are more inclined to get a bag of dog food and donate it. Perhaps it is the perception that animals are helpless and that we are their caretakers, whereas humans should be able to take care of themselves. Now, I'm not with PETA or anything, it's just my own observation.
Federal prosecutors don't proceed with indictments until they know they will get a conviction. The conviction rate is above 95% of those who are indicted. The 95% is true, but that's primarily because most cases never make it to trial. Defendants plea bargain rather than risk going to jail for a lengthy sentence in a federal prison in which there is no parole (and you'll serve roughly 85% of your sentance) So my best guess is still that he pleas and gets a huge fine and probation.
I hope that I'm not throwing petrol on the fire here, but I also think that where the treatment of animals is concerned, human nature is a bit interesting. True. It's also interesting that Vick plays pro football, a sport that leaves many of its players broken and shortens their lives.
It never fucking fails with this place, Black man indicted= must mention OJ, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. Pro wrestling is soap opera. Yea and the craziest mustache threads that pop up here every year are all about sports too. Then there are the Maurice Clarett threads that were 60 posts long because he jacked someone for a cell phone. Keep in mind he wasn't involved with any sport at the time and yet he found his way into several threads here at Spofi. Benoit was an athlete on juice. Just as many kids knew Chris Benoit as they do Mike Vick. His business is referred to as "sports entertainment". My point is that (as a black man) take great offense when a "High Profile" black person hurts me, my family, my black community and the whole image of the the black race by his actions, and for that he should be given the MAXIMUM sentence IF convicted for the Crime of dogfighting. He as a "HIGH PROFILE" person (if convicted) has hurt more than just a "bunch of dogs". He has hurt an entire race Get off the pipe "brother". All I want to know is, will every one show up in the 'Mike Vick found innocent' thread like they did in the "I told you the white boys from Duke were innocent thread". Will any of you support him suing the media for their part is this bullshit? I feel I must ask: do you condone, and/or participate in, dogfighting? Do you condone the circus? Zoos? Any sport involving animals? If you do, you condone animal cruelty on 1 level or another. You ever had a leg of Lamb? Take a guess at how they kill the baby sheep. Killing an animal for food is different? Yea eating it is much less cruel then burying it. Stop acting like these guys would just walk out to the kennel, randomly select a dog and set it on fire. At least none of the dogs were tied up and dragged to death because they were black. Or shot by police because they wouldn't 'do what they are told'. The accepted racism here is a fucking insult. Take a look back at the Duke thread when they were 1st indicted and see how many people were calling for them to be mauled by animals. And for all you newly found 'activists', take a look at this "sports"event that happens every year and then find the corresponding 'Spofi outrage thread'. from the article; Besides the obvious cruelty, dogs also pay a terrible price behind the scenes. Not every puppy born is a fast runner, and those who do not make the grade are usually killedby bludgeoning or drowningfor not possessing monumental stamina and speed. Guess how many Black folk compete in that event. Half of you don't even like Pitbulls. They are even banned in some neighborhoods. But when an animal suffers (at the hands of rich Black thug gang members), the reaction seems to be more vocal and outraged. fixed. Evidence? Search threads and comments for 'Spofi members against the Iditarod". White athlete on steroids kills retarded son....no story here. Black athlete "might" be involved in dogfighting...get the rope and torches, we're on our way to a 100 poster. If he is found innocent there won't even be a thread unless it's a thread full of 'I can't believe they let that coon go'.
"Unfortunately though, how often do high profile people actually do time when they break the law? Once in a blue moon maybe?" In this country the true legal punishment for the wealthy is to have their name in the paper/on the internet every day linked to a criminal case. (No, not all publicity is good.) Maybe even that doesn't hurt but to stand by as the best defense attorneys your money can buy drain your bank account certainly does.
Fuck, if I knew there was going to be a flameout, I would have brought marshmallows and skewers.
Thanks JerseyGirl for reminding us of those, but when men argue, esp. a subject like this, we do it with a bit more aggression and testostereone. Our Bad. Consider the new can of worms opened.
All I want to know is, will every one show up in the 'Mike Vick found innocent' thread like they did in the "I told you the white boys from Duke were innocent thread". Will any of you support him suing the media for their part is this bullshit? What leads you to believe he is innocent? White athlete on steroids kills retarded son....no story here. That story basically played itself out...He killed himself, so no presumption of innocent or guilt, no debate to be had on the subject. Stop acting like these guys would just walk out to the kennel, randomly select a dog and set it on fire. At least none of the dogs were tied up and dragged to death because they were black. Actually eight of the dogs were killed for not being "ring worthy", not being good fighting dogs, not because they were injured. Those dogs were hanged, drowned and shot. Good try Bishop. Keep trying to dance around the issue here. Race has nothing to do with the outrage toward Vick, at least it doesn't from me. What has been said, done or acted upon that makes you feel so strongly that Vick is innocent? Will you join the outrage WHEN he is convicted or will you try to find more excuses?
Bishop...you must be from da hood. Cuz yo reazonn' is dope... Oh sorry, I forgot that I was dealing with intelligent bloggers who don't condone ingorant acts of violence whether it was on human being or a helpless tied up animal. But I guess it's Ok because it was a ghetto rich athlete with no fuckin' common sense.
If he is found innocent there won't even be a thread unless it's a thread full of 'I can't believe they let that coon go'. The regulars here would never accept a comment calling a black athlete a "coon" and I'm tired of reading that kind of smear from you. There's a minimum level of good intent you have to assume in people in order to have a civil conversation with them. You have never shown it here on SportsFilter, and I'm tired of letting it slide. Go fight your race war somewhere else.
White athlete on steroids kills retarded son....no story here. Black athlete "might" be involved in dogfighting...get the rope and torches, we're on our way to a 100 poster. You're really gonna hang your hat on that comparison? How many threads on sportsfilter have there been on the WWE? You're comparing Vick, a very popular player, playing the position, in the most popular sport in the US with a guy I had never heard of who participates in a fake sport? If this had been Peyton Manning you think the thread wouldn't be 100 comments long? Think he could electrocute dogs and people would just shrug their shoulders and say "ah, he's white, no big deal"? If he is found innocent there won't even be a thread unless it's a thread full of 'I can't believe they let that coon go'. And if said it would be deleted and the member banned. It would also come from someone who signed up that day just to troll. That's an unfair assessment and an insult to the rank and file sportsfilter member that is here every day to discuss sports. Also, what rcade said.
I explained the situation to my younger brother who has less of an interest in football than I do. He has no idea who Michael Vick let alone what color he is. His response: This Vick guy is a sick fuck. White athlete on steroids kills retarded son....no story here. As a recovering Pro Wrestling fan I wanted to post this thread but I didn't. I figured more time would be spent on a)arguing weather or not Pro Wrestling is a sport or b)the role steroids played in all of this. There is a story there but wrestling is not widely accepted as a sport so it was left out. To suggest that this story was any less tragic because Benoit was white is an insult to the memory of his wife and son. I would have brought marshmallows and skewers. I'll bring the chocolate and grahm crackers and we can make smores and cuddle over the warmth of l_l_b's recently flamed good name.
Isn't interesting how ignorance and stupidity never fails to point itself out?
I can't help but think the San Diego Chargers are breathing a collective sigh of relief, thinking back to the 2001 NFL draft, when they traded the number one pick to Atlanta, who took Vick, and "settled" for the number five pick, some guy named Tomlinson. If I have that right, I don't think it's a reach possibly ranking that the best move in recent football history.
Go fight your race war somewhere else. I don't know if that means ban-nation or not, but if it does, can you close this thread to make things fair? The thread's awful enough; the inevitable taunting would be worse.
In a previous life I was involved in a number of "high profile" cases. There was not a single one of these that did not invoke an oh shit when we learned its nature or the name of the person involved. It always meant ten times the normal amount of work, not because the person was getting a break, but because of the level of scrutiny from all directions. If it wasn't completely ironclad we wouldn't move forward. A federal indictment of this scope indicates that they are very confident of a conviction. Until he is convicted, I can't agree with the NFL suspending him. I would expect that if the Falcons ownership has one brain cell amongst them, that they make the backup QB the starter even before training camps start. Guilty or not guilty, this would be a huge distraction for not only Vick but the entire team.
