FanDuel - WFBC

October 11, 2005

Angels down yankees: 5-3, who will now take on White Sox for the American League Championship.

posted by justgary to baseball at 12:19 AM - 140 comments

Though they played better, the yankees reminded me a lot of the red sox. A flawed team waiting for the 3 run homer that never came. 331 million just doesn't buy what it use to.

posted by justgary at 12:22 AM on October 11

The Curse strikes again!

posted by Joey Michaels at 02:40 AM on October 11

I expect "The Boss" to clean up the pitching situation over the off-season and the Yanks will be ready to dominate next year - best line-up in baseball.

posted by Bill Lumbergh at 06:12 AM on October 11

The Curse strikes again! Wanker. Didn't have the pitching, left too many on base, squandered too many opportunities...simple as that.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:01 AM on October 11

AHHHHHH.....horses..t here go again next watsh for all the st george atiques and has beens to compilment all the ones he already has i thought he was supposed to be a smart business man

posted by FrankySP at 07:04 AM on October 11

Every time the Yankees are knocked out, I feel elation followed quickly by disappointment that I'll have to wait another year for them to be knocked out of the playoffs again. I'm surprised they didn't reach the Series. If the era of Yankees domination didn't end with the Marlins World Series, it's definitely over now.

posted by rcade at 07:05 AM on October 11

The yankees will sign some more washed up ex-superstar pithcers, a couple of high dollar outfielders way past their prime, and they will make an early exit again next year. With the exception of A-rod, they havent impressed me with any of their aquisitions. They need to start young again.

posted by scottyooooo at 07:21 AM on October 11

Shef played far better than A Rod in this series.

posted by Bill Lumbergh at 07:27 AM on October 11

I think 300 million next year will get it done.

posted by Turbo at 07:59 AM on October 11

Only $300 mil? Are you SURE???? I hear Manny may want a trade again......

posted by sinisterfoot at 08:06 AM on October 11

I wasn't too confident going into the game with Mussina vs. Colon, but when Colon left injured I saw a moment of hope. Then they manage to let me down scoring just 1 run, having 2 on and no outs with a cold pitcher coming in. But then Torre blew it big time. Why let 5 runs score before switching pitchers, they had a bunch of arms available? It's not like there was a 3-run homer breaking the game open , just slow torture 1 run at a time. As soon as the game was tied at 2 they should of had Randy Johnson warming up, you could see Mussina was struggling. And the Cano interference call really broke the Yanks hopes.

posted by evil empire at 08:19 AM on October 11

A World Series without the Yankees or the Red Sox, My prayers have been answered!

posted by daddisamm at 08:42 AM on October 11

Well, I really like watching the Yankees lose. Doesn't that make you Yankee fans proud? I mean, your franchise is so hated, so despised that it brings out the fans! Just nice to know really. So, now what? Does George lose it and go out and sign another 2-3 arms and a new left-fielder and centre fielder? Does he fire Cashman and Torre? How much of a reaction can we expect? Right now for instance is he sacrificing some of the lower functionaries to his pagan God? How many years does Randy have left? - One? Mussina? Will Shawn Chacon be the opening day starter?

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:46 AM on October 11

remember, they will still have kevin brown next year....haha

posted by scottyooooo at 08:53 AM on October 11

Well, I really like watching the Yankees lose. Doesn't that make you Yankee fans proud? I mean, your franchise is so hated, so despised that it brings out the fans! I don't think it's the Yankees fans that are looking bad right now, Weedy -- it's the fans of other teams having a field day of pure petty spitefulness over the Yankees' losing. I was over this loss at, what, 11:30 last night -- sounds like it's gonna be haunting some other people for a lot longer. Yourself, maybe? As for what'll happen next year, who knows, but if you want to make an accurate prediction I think you'll have to stop having acid flashbacks to the '70s, when King George really ruled. It won't go down that way.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:02 AM on October 11

remember, they will still have kevin brown next year....haha You got some kind of insider knowledge, scotty? Brown is a free agent as of this morning.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:04 AM on October 11

Well, I really like watching the Yankees lose. Doesn't that make you Yankee fans proud? I mean, your franchise is so hated, so despised that it brings out the fans! Just nice to know really. Yes Weedy, it does make me feel proud. If the Yanks lost, and nobody gave a s#!t, that would indicate they are just another run-of-the-mill team. That their losing can excite so many non-Yankee fans is truely a tribute. I am VERY PROUD.

posted by drevl at 09:08 AM on October 11

I come to praise the Yankees, not to bury them. (Not that I'll stop y'all from throwing dirt on the grave.) Every year they don't win this is another year in the slow fadeout that was the small-d dynasty they'd assembled at the end of the last decade. I agree that $200 million and A-Rod shouldn't have sputtered out like this, but the facts remain: baseball is an inexact science, and the core of the Yankees has been in slow decline for years. Bernie Williams is 37 going on 60, Mariano Rivera is only going to become more and more vincible, and it's very possible that Chien Ming Wang could be the opening day starter next year. Which wouldn't be the worst thing for the future of the Yankees. Let all the old rich guys go, keep Jeter and, oh, Matsui just to keep the kids honest, sign one or two free agents (Torii Hunter, anyone?), and build the next generation of champions. They'd still win 85 games next year, and they'd contend again the year after that. I hope they don't do this. I doubt they will.

posted by chicobangs at 09:09 AM on October 11

They have to get younger at some point, don't they? I can't understand how their farm system isn't better, considering the kind of money they can throw at it.

posted by rcade at 09:11 AM on October 11

I can't understand how their farm system isn't better, considering the kind of money they can throw at it. I'm not too sure I understand this minor league thing. The starting 2nd baseman (Womack) stunk, so theYankees went to their minor leagues and called up Cano. I got no gripes with him. Two starters (Brown and Pavano) went on the DL so the Yankees again went to their minor leagues. They called up Small and Wang. I got no gripes with either of them. So what's this minor league crap all about?

posted by drevl at 09:28 AM on October 11

Their farm system, as far as I've seen, is middle-of-the-pack, which ought to keep them competitive, inasmuch as they'll have prospects to trade, as they invariably do. Seeing as though they seem to have pitching to move, anyone want to step up with some hypothetical trades they might make to winnow down the pitching staff, or is a given that they'll just open the checkbook again. Who are the top free-agent pitchers this offseason?

posted by ajaffe at 09:33 AM on October 11

I was over this loss at, what, 11:30 last night ... And you wonder why some people loathe the Yankees? I'm not over 1996.

posted by rcade at 09:39 AM on October 11

The Yankees farm system used to be splendid. The very existence of Columbus was enough to strike fear into Major League hearts. It's my gut feeling that the farm system created the Yankee dynasty, and going with a "buy, don't build" strategy in recent decades has eroded the farm system and slowly undermined the Yankees' main source of strength. I think the farm system would be the ideal way to "get younger", but you have to be development-minded to do that, and I don't know if that mindset exists in the Yankee organization. The worst thing about a lot of money is that it leads you to believe that you can buy solutions, which is sort of like believing that if I put a Formula 1 engine in my Toyota Tercel, I can win at Monaco.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:39 AM on October 11

That's funny, yesterday they asked what we thought the Yanks pitching staff would look like next season. I had completely forgot Pavano exsisted, he was gone so long on the DL.

posted by evil empire at 09:43 AM on October 11

having a field day of pure petty spitefulness Sounds like you're describing your own verdict of Clemens there, lbb. Surely you've never been called a hypocrite.

posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 09:47 AM on October 11

During a Yankee game this season they were talking about the farm system. They said look to the AA club for the hot prospects and AAA is now mostly for older players who won't get much more than a taste of the big league.

posted by evil empire at 09:49 AM on October 11

They asked? That was me! The thing that gets me about the Yanks is that they have the potential to retool in a smart way and never seem to realize it. They have a roster that should allow cover for a newbie to work through growing pains (Cano was awful early on, and look how well he turned out), but they rarely seem to have the patience...

posted by ajaffe at 09:50 AM on October 11

Those who mentioned above about the people who HATE the Yankees always having the most to say about them is dead-on correct. You really never get much Yankee gloating or boasting unless it's the frustration of reading the stupid things the haters write causing them to respond. Anyone who knows sports at all or has played competitive sports at a high level know that money doesn't play the game. Money doesn't hit the ball or field the long drives when your teammate is crashing into you. Talent on any given day will win games, not just talent that signed a piece of paper with a lot of numbers on it. This $200 million issue is getting so old. I say it every time, the Yanks haven't won the Series since the year 2000, so what's everyone griping about? OTHER TEAMS ARE WINNING. THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT!! The Yanks not moving on may mean a nail-biting final between the Astros and Angels. Oh, boy! Ratings should skyrocket for that one! I'm sure the posts after EVERY SINGLE game will really bring out some emotion, too. When the haters come off their Yankee-loss high, I'm not sure what they'll turn to to get that fix they need.

posted by dyams at 09:51 AM on October 11

When the haters come off their Yankee-loss high, I'm not sure what they'll turn to to get that fix they need. Football season, and a refreshing round of Patriots-hatin'? ;-)

posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:57 AM on October 11

SAY WHAT YOU WILL ABOUT YANKS FANS BUT AT LEAST WE ARE A PASSONIATE BREED. IT'S ABOUT THE ONLY THING WE HAVE IN COMMON WITH RED SOX FANS AND THE ONLY THING. TOO MANY TIMES ON THIS BOARD I SEE PEOPLE SAY I ROOT FOR THE A'S AND THE O'S AND THE CARDS. F THAT NOISE I AM OF THE PHILOSOPHY YOU PICK A SIDE AND START SWINGING. I WENT THROUGH THE ROUGH YEARS AS A KID AND THEY FINALLY TURNED IT AROUND. AM I SUPPOSED TO FEEL GUILTY BECAUSE THE CLUB I LIKE HAPPENS TO MAKE MONEY SO THEY CAN SPEND MONEY. I LOVE THIS TEAM BECAUSE THEY EMBODY NEW YORK WHERE I WAS BORN, RAISED AND STILL LIVE. ARE THERE FAIR WEATHER YANKS FANS, SURE. HOW BO SOX FANS "CAME OUT" LAST YEAR. DON'T GET DOWN ON A GENUINE FAN BECAUSE OF FRONT RUNNERS. WAS I UPSET AFTER THIS LOSS TO THE HALOS, SURE, BUT YOU CAN'T WIN 'EM ALL AND THERE IS ALWAYS NEXT YEAR.

posted by HATER 187 at 09:57 AM on October 11

I APOLIGZE FOR MY POOR SPELLING AND AWFUL TYPING SKILLS

posted by HATER 187 at 09:58 AM on October 11

chico, Torii Hunter isn't a free agent, but i wouldn't mind if they could find a way to get him. their farm system isn't dead, but there really isn't anyone i can think of that's close to major league ready next year. they do have some promising young players in the minors (Matt DeSalvo, Kevin Thompson, Eric Duncan, Philip Hughes). after the rookie performances of Cano and Wang i would hope that they will think twice before shipping out top prospects for a quick fix. as l_b_b pointed out, it was the farm system that was the backbone of the '96-'01 teams. but that farm system was kept intact by Stick Michael, while George was suspended from the game. he made sure that Williams, Jeter, Mo, Pettitte and Posada weren't traded for aging superstars. ajaffe, here's a list of free agents after this season. i'm going to take a shot in the dark and say that with Bengie Molina on the market, Posada may be on his way out. George likes to pick up players that have beat him in the post season.

posted by goddam at 10:00 AM on October 11

They have to get younger at some point, don't they? I can't understand how their farm system isn't better, considering the kind of money they can throw at it. Is it me or are we forgetting there is a draft in baseball. Let's see why the Yankees farm system isn't the greatest could it be because we get lower draft picks because we finish so much further ahead then other teams that our draft picks are always lower. There are two silver linings in this season fellow yankee fans. Kevin Brown is history thank god and Robinson Cano looks like he will be a superstar sometime in the near future. I would say wait till next year except I don't want to risk sounding like a redsox fan.

posted by jtrluva at 10:00 AM on October 11

To put this very simply neither the red sox nor the yankees did anything to allow them to advance to the next round. Both teams lacked the dominant pitcher/pitchers and neither team could get a clutch hit from some of the so-called best players in the game. So in my not-so humble opinion they are right where there should be, on the outside looking in.

posted by pasdpildoc at 10:09 AM on October 11

You really never get much Yankee gloating or boasting unless it's the frustration of reading the stupid things the haters write causing them to respond. Last Friday night called. They want you to check the bullshit that was being spewed around here.

posted by jerseygirl at 10:10 AM on October 11

Oh lbb - you can't get too offended at the thought of the fans of the have-nots gleefully relishing the defeat of the haves. I mean, you try being a Blue Jay or Devil Ray fan in the modern AL East. We'll never, NEVER have the Yankee advantage. But isn't that a good thing if you're a Yankee fan? The ire? Means your team is worthy of hatred. That's a good thing. No sympathy for the devil, not here, anyway.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 10:10 AM on October 11

Thanks, goddam. I think the Mets might make a big play for Molina as well, but given their history with these things, I'm not hopeful...

posted by ajaffe at 10:16 AM on October 11

it's time for the Yankees to trade A-Rod for a bunch of youngsters, and offer to pay half his salary to boot. The Yankees need to rebuild with youth. I'm sick and tired of this 80's flashback, next they'll be signing steve kemp and Ed Whitson. A-Rod has failed two years in a row to step up in the playoffs, he's no Scott Brosius. Gaudy numbers during the season do not impress me.

posted by jbou at 10:17 AM on October 11

A World Series without the Yankees or the Red Sox, My prayers have been answered! posted by daddisamm Yep, it's good to finally see a series without boston, huh? I mean, it's about time someone else got a chance. When was the last time the sox weren't in the series? 1970,71,72,73,74,76,77,78,79,80,81,82,83,84,85,87,88,89,90,91,92,93,94,95,96,97,98,99,00,01,02,03. What were the odds?

posted by justgary at 10:17 AM on October 11

A-Rod has failed two years in a row to step up in the playoffs, he's no Scott Brosius. Boy, don't that speak volumes.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 10:40 AM on October 11

Torii Hunter isn't a free agent, but i wouldn't mind if they could find a way to get him. Please don't take Torii...

posted by chris2sy at 10:44 AM on October 11

The level of lack of understanding about the game of baseball in this thread is very high. A-Rod sucks. Right, well, he'll be the MVP this year. BTW, his OBP for the series was something like .500. For a shitty hitter, they sure seem to pitch around him alot... Fire Torre. How about manager of the year, with the injuries and rotation turmoil this year. Mussina sucked last night? Few hard hit balls in that 2 inning rally. 3 Ks in 2 innings. Sure, pull him... Washed up ex-superstars, yeah, like Sheffield (.291/34 and Arod .321/48) Randy Johnson 17-8 BTW 7 pitchers with more wins in all of MLB Bad Yankee farm? How about Cano - The Rookie of the Year and Aaron Small, winning his first 10 decisions, and Bubba Crosby, who by the way hit about .280 this year. Tori Hunter hit .269. Hunter is marginally better, if you discount his highlight reel catches. Here's the deal, the Yankees did not lose because they suck, they lost because the Halos played better at a couple of key spots. Period. Stop listening to talk radio, watch the game, understand the game.

posted by sfts2 at 10:47 AM on October 11

that site i linked to has Ramon Hernandez pegged as going to the Mets. but if they don't get him i could see Omar making a play for Molina. jbou, like every other Yankee fan, i'm disappointed in ARod's post-season performance this year. but without him, i don't hink they Yankees are even in the playoffs. and as far as last year, he carried that team through the alds. no one stepped up during those last 4 games, it wasn't just him. on preview, chris2sy, from what i've heard it's the twins that don't want to keep him.

posted by goddam at 10:48 AM on October 11

uh, i meant "think" not "hink"

posted by goddam at 10:49 AM on October 11

You really never get much Yankee gloating or boasting ... Were you here the last two years for the Yankees/Sox series? No one taunts like a Yankees fan in an up year. Not even a Cowboys or Lakers fan. ... a nail-biting final between the Astros and Angels. Oh, boy! Ratings should skyrocket for that one! That's a boast! You couldn't even make it through a single comment without one.

posted by rcade at 10:51 AM on October 11

I'd wanna see how Torii Hunter comes back from that bad injury before trading for him. ESPN's site says Hunter has put his house up for sale thinking he will be traded.

posted by evil empire at 10:51 AM on October 11

sfts2, while i agree with many of your sentiments, you can't compare Bubba and Torii on batting average alone. Bubba only had 98 at bats this year and his numbers benefited from a hot september. i mean, i like Bubba as a 4th outfielder, but i think Hunter would be a good fit for the Yankees (provided, like evil said, he can come back from that injury.)

posted by goddam at 11:00 AM on October 11

Fire Torre. How about manager of the year? How about no. Ozzie Guillen. Bad Yankee farm? How about Cano - The Rookie of the Year Over Huston Street? LOL.

posted by jerseygirl at 11:07 AM on October 11

Let's see why the Yankees farm system isn't the greatest could it be because we get lower draft picks because we finish so much further ahead then other teams that our draft picks are always lower. Please. Because every overall #1 is a sure-fire All Star, right? The farm system isn't that great right now mainly for the reasons mentioned above, trading away young talent to win now. That's one of the two functions of a good minor league system. Other than that, I think it's probably just been forgotten about during the last decade of success. There was some mention of next year's possible Yankee rotation here. Torii Hunter seems to be available as his name has come up re: multiple teams.

posted by yerfatma at 11:10 AM on October 11

Oh wait, the Yankees still have Bubba Crosby? They're all set then.

posted by yerfatma at 11:11 AM on October 11

Thuh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh Yankees lose! And if we are going to talk about Yankee curses, don't bother with the piddly ARod one. The real curse is Don Mattingly.

  • Yankees win World Series in 1978.
  • Don Mattingly drafted by Yankees in 1979.
  • Yankees go for their longest stretch without a World Series win since they won their first one in 1923 (1979-1995, 17 seasons). Don Mattingly is part of the franchise for that entire time.
  • Yankees win the World Series in 1996, the year after Mattingly retires.
  • Worst moment in Yankee playoffs history occurs in 2004 as they blow a 3-0 series lead to the Red Sox. Who joined the team as batting coach in 2004? Don Mattingly.
  • Yankees fail to make the ALCS in 2005. Don Mattingly is still the batting coach.
By the way, the Yankees got HOSED on that call by the umpire at 1B. He wasn't making an attempt to block the throw by running right down the line. I might cheer against the Yankees (being a Blue Jays fan) but I knew they got screwed on that one. A positive about the Yankees being out of the playoffs is that McCarver can stop aurally fellating Derek Jeter every time he comes up to bat. Bad Yankee farm? How about Cano - The Rookie of the Year Over Huston Street? LOL. Don't forget the votes that Wang might steal from Cano. And throw in Chacin and Gomes as potential ROY candidates. Please. Because every overall #1 is a sure-fire All Star, right? The farm system isn't that great right now mainly for the reasons mentioned above, trading away young talent to win now. That's one of the two functions of a good minor league system. Other than that, I think it's probably just been forgotten about during the last decade of success. There was some mention of next year's possible Yankee rotation here. Bill James did a comparison of #1 overall picks vs #10 overall picks over the past X number of years. He valued them on career win shares, and #1 picks produce quality major league players 4 times as often as #10 picks. (for the details, you can read it in "The New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract").

posted by grum@work at 11:16 AM on October 11

My question with Hunter is why don't the Twins want to keep him. Is there something they know that everyone else doesn't? Also how old is he? What I am most concerned with right now is whether or not Joe is coming back. I think he did a wonderful job this year however he looks like it had a bigger toll on him this year. He looks as though he has aged greatly during the season. I mean it's understandable with everything he had to deal with but I wonder if he even wants to come back. Is that why winning the division was so special, is that why this loss hurts more than last year (Torre said that). He has seemed much more emotional this year. I wonder if he has finally had enough of George's shit and is planning on leaving the yanks?

posted by jtrluva at 11:19 AM on October 11

Bad Yankee farm? How about Cano - The Rookie of the Year and Aaron Small, winning his first 10 decisions, and Bubba Crosby, who by the way hit about .280 this year. Aaron Small isn't a product of your farm system. He's got 7 years major league experience, and has been with Florida and Atlanta. It's one thing to say you plucked him out of the draft and groomed him. The Yankees didn't. He was being stored in AAA Columbus. Bubba Crosby, same thing. Not a product of your farm system. From Los Angeles. Not the same thing as farm system products. Er... you know you didn't grow the vegetables in your fridge, right?

posted by jerseygirl at 11:19 AM on October 11

What was with Bubba starting every game ? He rode the bench most of the year and suddenly he's in the line up like he'll be some kind of savior. Sheffield had a hammy yet played every game in the field. Why not use Bernie in the field and stick others in the dh ? I don't know but it seems weird to me .

posted by evil empire at 11:20 AM on October 11

Why not use Bernie in the field Did that really just happen? Someone pinch me and prove I'm not dreaming the contents of this thread.

posted by YukonGold at 11:38 AM on October 11

Everyone bitches every year the Braves are eliminated,but they're always there BECAUSE they have the best farm system in the majors bar none.... The Yankees lost and really are fortunate to have made it as far as they did.. You can kiss Torre good-bye and thats been a fact for quite some time. Ever since the Devil Rays beat them that first set.. Sweet Lou will return and as much as I hate the Yankees,he'll have them playing up to their potential next year.

posted by maclmn at 11:40 AM on October 11

By the way, the Yankees got HOSED on that call by the umpire at 1B. He wasn't making an attempt to block the throw by running right down the line. Mike at baseball toaster has a funny post about that today. you obviously can't blame the loss on that, but Joe West always seems to be involved with questionable calls. evil, i had no problem starting Bubba. last night's debacle notwithstanding, he's the best fielding CF on the team. there were no other options for DH. and don't say Sierra. he's a pinch hitter at best. and Giambi hits better at 1B so putting Tino there and having Jason DH isn't a good option (except when Wang is pitching and they need a sure glove at first.) i'd rather have a hole at the end of the batting order with Bubba than a hole in center field. besides, he had 2 hits yesterday plus an RBI. i think joe did a good with the lineup for the series, (although i was never crazy about ARod batting second. would've like to have seen Giambi there followed by Sheff and ARod). it wasn't Torre's fault that they missed so many opportunities.

posted by goddam at 11:41 AM on October 11

Because Bernie runs like me in center field nowadays. There was plenty of video of him surrounding balls rather than going afer them down the stretch. This loss made me a happy man because now all the bad guys have exited the playoffs. As Weedy said, if you're in Toronto and looking up at two teams spending double or triple what you are spending, it's gratifying to see them fail in the postseason. It gives us peons hope that maybe one day they might actually both collapse in the regular season and we'll have a legitimate chance. That or the US economy will completely collapse.

posted by wfrazerjr at 11:43 AM on October 11

#1 picks produce quality major league players 4 times as often as #10 picks Fair enough. My larger point was that baseball and hockey drafts are crapshoots in a way basketball and football are not. Draft position in the main MLB draft doesn't have the importance of a decent scouting system. Someone pinch me and prove I'm not dreaming the contents of this thread. If one of the commenters turns out to be Brian Cashman, don't wake me.

posted by yerfatma at 11:44 AM on October 11

A lot of people seem to be talking of Small like he was a Yankee product. Don't get me wrong it's an unbelievable story, but give the Yankees credit for getting incredibly lucky and give him credit for stepping up. I'm not keeping close tabs on the Yankee farm system, but of all those kids they traded over the last 5 years have any of them enjoyed success? btw, that's a question, not a dig.

posted by YukonGold at 11:45 AM on October 11

Here's the deal, the Yankees did not lose because they suck, they lost because the Halos played better at a couple of key spots. Period. Well put. As much as I dislike the Yankees (and it isn't hate. I'm just too much of a socialist at heart to like a team who dominates through bankroll) they can't have "sucked" because they made quite far into the post season. They fought back in the regular season after being, what, 8 games or so back of Baltimore and/or Boston? They never gave up after having a few losing streaks, and they won the division despite having injuries and a few players (Johnson, for one) not finishing the year quite as strong as might be expected. But they didn't suck. That's like saying the Eagles suck for making it to so many NFC championships in a row and eventually the Super Bowl, but never "winning it all." Or saying the Bills sucked in the early 90s. Or that Dan Marino sucked because he never won a Super Bowl. goddam is right. And the salt on the open wounds of the Yank's fans is tacky. The only team that sucks is the Baltimore Ravens. Well, and [your team].

posted by scully at 11:54 AM on October 11

Aaron Small isn't a product of your farm system. ... Bubba Crosby, same thing. You misunderstand. The rest of the Major Leagues is the Yankees farm system.

posted by rcade at 11:56 AM on October 11

goddam is right. And the salt on the open wounds of the Yank's fans is tacky. It's tacky, but you guys still do it. You do it to the Yankees fans and you do it to the Sox fans. Even the non-asshole ones.

posted by jerseygirl at 11:57 AM on October 11

figured id see YANKMEE fans sulking..i love it. tired of hearing now that YANKMEE fans are saying "i dont care they lost..as long as BOSTON isnt in it now" whats up with that? typical answer from a bandwaggon fan that 85% of YANKMEE fans are. if you asked a so-called fan "WHO gave up the homerun to BUCKY DENT in the AL EAST GAME in 1978?" they dont even know what im talking about. and i know for a fact that no YANKMEE fan will watch the PLAYOFFS or WORLD SERIES this year because their team is not in it....aaah too bad! ever notice at YANKMEE STADIUM when the YANKMEES are losing..all the fans leave the ballpark in like the 7th inning or so! your all spoiled, and like i said 85% of you so-called fans dont know anything about the game, and you like to blame certain players or the manager or front office. have a nice winter YANKMEE fans, since you all are crying, and wont watch the remaining post season..while the rest of us REAL BASEBALL FANS will love every minute of this post season, and can enjoy it...without YANKMEE fans around. oK fans..WHO YOU GONNA BLAME NOW.... and since your team didnt make the post season, i guess next year you will be fans of WHOever wins the world series this year...typical YANKMEE fans

posted by no band waggon at 12:00 PM on October 11

I couldn't have timed that better.

posted by jerseygirl at 12:03 PM on October 11

I can't believe someone just spent 5 minutes writing that...

posted by cl at 12:03 PM on October 11

Band Waggon sir, you are a tool. Anybody who uses a YANKMEE joke over 9 times in a single post is a total idiot. Right now you're sitting around in your Zuba pants, looking at your not-so-big pectorals through your black mesh shirt.

posted by Bill Lumbergh at 12:04 PM on October 11

cl, that's not counting taking the time to choose a misspelled username and signing up.

posted by dusted at 12:06 PM on October 11

jerseygirl: Considering *I* made the comment, and *I* don't rub salt in wounds, I'd appreciate it if you don't include me. I may not like the Yankees, but I have nothing against their fans, or Red Sox fans for that matter. Boston's kinda my adopted team since I moved to VT. Please don't use my words to insinuate something that I didn't do. Thanks. BTW, my wife would leave our anniversary dinner if Johnny Damon came up to bat in the middle of our dining experience ;) [On preview, I will give you that there are wankers like no band waggon [sic], but for the most part folks were doing ok. The thread, unfortunatally, seem created to stir the hornets nest.]

posted by scully at 12:06 PM on October 11

jerseygirl: Considering *I* made the comment, and *I* don't rub salt in wounds, I'd appreciate it if you don't include me. I may not like the Yankees, but I have nothing against their fans, or Red Sox fans for that matter. Boston's kinda my adopted team since I moved to VT. Please don't use my words to insinuate something that I didn't do. Thanks. "You guys" as the general Sportsfilter board, and you know thats what I meant, dude. And truly, there are far, far more of you who partake in it, than don't. For the record everyone! I didn't mean Terrapin specifically!! ok? :)

posted by jerseygirl at 12:10 PM on October 11

but of all those kids they traded over the last 5 years have any of them enjoyed success? Yukon, i present to you the Claussen Pickle. and it's companion piece on Braves prospects.

posted by goddam at 12:11 PM on October 11

Sorry, that last comment wasn't fair to justgary. I didn't mean to make it sound like the post was written maliciously, just it's sportsnewsfilterish.

posted by scully at 12:15 PM on October 11

so bill answer the question i asked..without looking it up who gave up the HR...mr fan!

posted by no band waggon at 12:15 PM on October 11

thanks, jerseygirl :)

posted by scully at 12:17 PM on October 11

times up!!!! typical

posted by no band waggon at 12:17 PM on October 11

Good! The Angels are a real team and wanted it more. The Yankees are a motley assortment of overpaid all-stars with no cohesion. They didn't deserve to win the AL East. And the World Series is going to be interesting at the very least. Now I'm just going to root against the Astros (sorry but Roger Clemens is a first class ass even if he is one of the best pitchers in the history of the game). Cards and Angels, Cards and White Sox, either would be fine. My money's on the Cards.

posted by fenriq at 12:17 PM on October 11

Ironically, had Bernie been in CF last night, Sheffield probably catches that ball.

posted by ajaffe at 12:21 PM on October 11

YANKMEES It's amazing how a month in junior high will expand your vocabulary, isn't it? times up!!!! Who made you the timekeeper-slash-hall monitor, li'l boy?

posted by lil_brown_bat at 12:23 PM on October 11

I'm thinking no band waggon (sic) is Mike Torrez.

posted by cl at 12:23 PM on October 11

Fair enough. My larger point was that baseball and hockey drafts are crapshoots in a way basketball and football are not. Draft position in the main MLB draft doesn't have the importance of a decent scouting system. I agree entirely. In general, the baseball (and hockey) drafts (because they are so deep) seems just as likely to produce a late-round star (Mike Piazza) as a #1 bum (Brien Taylor). But if you consistantly pick #1 (or close to it), you are more likely to produce quality players. I'm not keeping close tabs on the Yankee farm system, but of all those kids they traded over the last 5 years have any of them enjoyed success? Here are the most recent big-name trades and the players sent the other way. Some are prospects, some are players previously acquired in other trades. Nevertheless, they had them in their system and traded them away. (I've highlighted the good players with bold, the serviceable players with italics)

  • 1998 - Yankees get Chuck Knoblauch for Brian Buchanan, Christian Guzman, Eric Milton.
  • 1999 - Yankees get Roger Clemens for Homer Bush, Graeme Lloyd, David Wells.
  • 2000 - Yankees get David Justice for Rickey Ledee, Jake Westbrook, Zach Day.
  • 2002 - Yankees get Raul Mondesi for Scott Wiggins.
  • 2002 - Yankees get Jeff Weaver for Ted Lilly, John-Ford Griffin, Jason Arnold.
  • 2003 - Yankees get Aaron Boone for Brandon Claussen, Charlie Manning.
  • 2003 - Yankees get Armando Benitez for Jason Anderson, Anderson Garcia, Ryan Bicondoa.
  • 2004 - Yankees get Kevin Brown for Jeff Weaver, Yhency Brazoban, Brandon Weeden.
  • 2004 - Yankees get Alex Rodriguez for Alfonso Soriano and Joaquin Arias.
  • 2004 - Yankees get Javier Vazquez for Nick Johnson, Juan Rivera, Randy Choate.
  • 2004 - Yankees get Esteban Loaiza for Jose Contreras.
  • 2005 - Yankees get Randy Johnson for Javier Vazquez, Brad Halsey, Dioner Navarro
  • 2005 - Yankees get Shawn Chacon for Eduardo Sierra, Ramon Ramirez.
The rest of their main acquisitions were either free agent pickups (Giambi, for example), waiver-wire grabs (Leiter) or minor league signings (Cano). I'm pretty sure they'd like to have Nick Johnson, Yhency Brazoban, Dioner Navarro, Jake Westbrook and Zach Day back...

posted by grum@work at 12:34 PM on October 11

Sorry, that last comment wasn't fair to justgary. I didn't mean to make it sound like the post was written maliciously, just it's sportsnewsfilterish. That surprises me. I was actually going for the opposite. Make it as dry as possible, simply a link to the game for discussion. And yes it is kind of newsfilterish, but 5 minutes after the game great links are hard to find, and yet it needs to be here. And if no one else puts it here, I do, and would have regardless if the yankees or angels would have won. By the way, the Yankees got HOSED on that call by the umpire at 1B. I'm surprised torre didn't make more noise on that call. I've seen far worse not called.

posted by justgary at 12:41 PM on October 11

... a nail-biting final between the Astros and Angels. Oh, boy! Ratings should skyrocket for that one! That's a boast! You couldn't even make it through a single comment without one. No, that wasn't a boast. This was only a way of saying Yankee haters will probably miss the Yankees being in upcoming playoff games more than many Yankee fans. I think you probably were able to pick up on the idea of the emotion the Yankees losing seems to invoke. People seem to really thrive emotionally on that. Where are they going to release that hatred now? On the Astros? The White Sox? And another thing. Molina to the Mets? It's not like the Mets to overpay for a player who has a dominating playoff run.

posted by dyams at 12:41 PM on October 11

It's not like the Mets to overpay for a player who has a dominating playoff run Carlos Beltran?

posted by Bill Lumbergh at 12:53 PM on October 11

Well, with the Yankees out, I'm still hoping to see some more good stuff, 'specially from them White Sox...but I'll be honest, I dunno how often I'm gonna stay up for the end of the games that start at eight. Getting to sleep at a decent hour is looking real attractive right now.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 01:12 PM on October 11

It's not like the Mets to overpay for a player who has a dominating playoff run Carlos Beltran? That's what I meant. I didn't think I needed to spell it out.

posted by dyams at 01:15 PM on October 11

Statement by George M. Steinbrenner, Principal Owner, New York Yankees "I congratulate the Angels and their manager on the great job they've done. Our team played hard, but we let our fans down. Our fans are the greatest in the world and I want to thank them for their amazing support throughout the season. We will do better." I wonder how long it will take to see if he will lose it and clean house.

posted by jtrluva at 01:17 PM on October 11

I wonder how long it will take to see if he will lose it and clean house. Forever, jtrluva -- because if he lived to be 200, people would still be watching for this.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 01:31 PM on October 11

I dunno how often I'm gonna stay up for the end of the games that start at eight. If Bud Selig and his pals are expecting me to stay up 'til 2 this year, I've got an unfortunate suprise for them. Start the games at a reasonable hour and give the finger to the folks on the West Coast. What happened between me having to rush home from school to see Roger and his Ninja Turtle shoeleaces get thrown out of a game in the ALCS and now?

posted by yerfatma at 01:36 PM on October 11

It's really interesting when you see the full list of who their trades involved. I was thinking primarily about Yankee farm products and looking at those, obviously Westbrook and Day are at the head of the class. But in the last three years they haven't really let someone slip away (other than established big leaguers in high profile transactions)

posted by YukonGold at 01:52 PM on October 11

yerfatma: you probably cut school in '78 same as me, right?

posted by lil_brown_bat at 02:11 PM on October 11

I've highlighted the good players with bold Um, I think you made a mistake. Eric Milton's name should not be in bold.

posted by rocketman at 02:11 PM on October 11

Start the games at a reasonable hour and give the finger to the folks on the West Coast. Couldn't agree more, these games are way too late. Does this make good business sense? Don't they lose $ when everybody back East goes to sleep?

posted by Bill Lumbergh at 02:19 PM on October 11

All I know is the last two nights I have been up late tonight I could care less about baseball I'm going to sleep early. I may keep an ear on the Astros just cause I still love pettite but other than that the rest of this season is going to be a snooze fest.

posted by jtrluva at 02:29 PM on October 11

If only Cardinals/Padres game three had gone 18 innings. That would have been a sweet 4am finish on the East Coast.

posted by YukonGold at 02:39 PM on October 11

you probably cut school in '78 same as me, right? Pre-school was a half-day affair, so no hooky was required.

posted by yerfatma at 03:28 PM on October 11

I think they should alternate the start times to better suit east coast and west coast fans. That way I don't miss all the games because they start while I'm still at work and you all on the east coast don't have to stay up until 2 am all the time (its good to do it every once in a while).

posted by fenriq at 03:57 PM on October 11

I am starting to know how Atlanta fans feel. We get excited when we make the playoffs, but we're not so disappointed when we lose in the playoffs, because it's happened so many times. Time to regroup with some youth, and see if we can get Jeter one more ring before he retires. Oh, and maybe one more before Von Steingrabber croaks.

posted by frank924 at 04:08 PM on October 11

You know, for a NYY-are-eliminated thread with going on a hundred posts, I was expecting a bit more fairweather trolling and counter-gnashing-of-teeth. Not that there's been none (the word YANKMEES wasn't tired or overused until ten words later, when whassiswaggon said it again, and I realized it was a request, not a taunt), but I've avoided this thread for a while expecting the worst, and it's not as bad as I'd feared. The time-zone argument has no mutually agreeable answer. You can't move the games back past about 6:30 before rush hour screws with attendance, and neither coast has a monopoly on whining about it. Fans will suck it up, casual watchers will watch what they can and then pass out, and SportsCenter picks up the pieces. sic transit gloria monkey.

posted by chicobangs at 04:11 PM on October 11

I guess all sports junkies don't think alike. i have spent many nights here on the West Coast wishing I lived on the East Coast so that I would have games to watch in the middle of the night, instead of crappy reruns and old movies. I think that's a perfect situation, the teams you care about play in primetime and if there is a game worth watching you can stay up for it, or if you are up anyways there is a game on.

posted by bigrobbieb at 05:07 PM on October 11

I gotta say I am mostly impressed with the class the Yankee players displayed in the Post Game interviews I've listened to so far, nothing as outragous as the moronic comment by Tim Wakefield after they got booted. I am not a Yankee fan at all but some of my Yankee Fan friends have had a pretty hard day getting ribbed at work. I love Baseball and MLB Playoff Baseball (no matter who is playing) is by far my favorite. Above Playoff NFL Football or even March Madness. Being a lifelong Cub Fan has taught me to enjoy the game of Playoff Baseball for what it is because I usually haven't had my team in it. Should be some excellent Baseball in the ALCS and NLCS to watch.

posted by skydivedad at 05:50 PM on October 11

What did Wakefield say?

posted by jojomfd1 at 06:02 PM on October 11

And when you tell us what he said, get a link. Thanks

posted by jerseygirl at 06:16 PM on October 11

I was merely referring to Wakefields postgame comment that sometimes the best team doesn't win It depends on luck. Sounds like sour grapes to me. Implying Boston had the better team. Getting swept in 3 games makes that unlikely in my opinion and I like the Boston Red Sox.

posted by skydivedad at 07:34 PM on October 11

Wakefield's comments here. He didn't say anything out of line.

posted by jbou at 07:39 PM on October 11

Reading the Wakefield comments, he really seems pretty humble. Doesn't seem obnoxious at all. Maybe he sounded obnoxious when he said them live. I don't know.

posted by Joey Michaels at 07:54 PM on October 11

I disagree when you call yourself the better team after getting swept 3 games I'd call that pretty arrogant. It sure sounded that way when I saw the interview. Sour Grapes are never humble and your excuses for his behavior rings pretty hollow to me.

posted by skydivedad at 07:58 PM on October 11

Well, wakefield's not the first to say that anything can happen in a 5 game series. And he's right, in a short series it's often the hot team that takes it. I didn't see him saying the white sox didn't deserve it. Seemed to just be more disappointed in him and his teammate's effort. I was also to say the least. And I won't bother to link to it (it's easy to find) but arod said almost the same exact thing today. Something along the line that he still thinks the yankees are the better team, and I have no problem with that comment either.

posted by justgary at 07:59 PM on October 11

While praising the White Sox, Wakefield added that a short series does not always favor the better team, that luck and chances often factor into the result. I think this is what my husband (skydivedad) was referring to (and by the way we are on different computers and he doesn't know I am writing this). I do think it is a little obnoxious to imply Boston was the better team when they were swept by the White Sox. He did say that Chicago had a good team but then had to put the snide remark about how the better team doesn't always win.

posted by skydivemom at 08:02 PM on October 11

Ok about Arod's comment the Yankees were not swept by the Angels so this is a completely different circumstance. I did not actually see Arod's comment and maybe I would feel different if I had. I think there was a little luck involved with the Yankees and the Angels but that series went to 5 games, it did not end at 3.

posted by skydivemom at 08:09 PM on October 11

I don't find the remark snide. snide: Derogatory in a malicious, superior way. I don't think it was malicious, especially when it's also the truth. (not that the red sox are better, but that the best team doesn't always win) And I understand what you're saying, the red sox were swept, so it wasn't one unlucky play. But you have to take the whole quote in context, including the part about the "hot" team winning, to understand his point, which is a true one.

posted by justgary at 08:14 PM on October 11

Give credit COMPLETELY where credit is due after all the White Sox did have a better season record than Boston. I say all this with my heart on my sleeve cause I am a Cub fan whose AL team is the Boston Red Sox.

posted by skydivemom at 08:25 PM on October 11

So... again, just so I'm clear... we're arguing about nothing?

posted by jerseygirl at 08:41 PM on October 11

If you want every team that loses to say "we got beat by a better team" you're living in a dream world. It's rarely said. Wakefield isn't alone in his comments. If the white sox lose to the angels I promise you someone will say "I still feel we're the better team." It's part of being competitive, part of being confident. Hell, even in little league, if we lost a game I never thought the other team was better. In high school if we lost a game, and I don't care how badly, if someone said afterwards "well, they're simply a better team than us" we would have looked at that person like he was crazy. If you think it should never be said, fine, but wakefield wasn't trying to put the white sox down. I'm sure he's just disappointed that they didn't play better. I don't think the white sox have a problem with what he said. In fact, I don't think his comments are regarded as controversial at all.

posted by justgary at 08:44 PM on October 11

Ok - jerseygirl is right we are arguing about nothing. We do not know Wakefields heart so neither of us can make any kind of assumption about what he said. By the way there is a good game on right now and I am going to go watch it.

posted by skydivemom at 08:49 PM on October 11

We do not know Wakefields heart--skydivemom TIM IN THE COMMUNITY: Tim Wakefield is recognized throughout Major League Baseball as ranking among the most community-minded individuals in the game...the Wakefield Warriors program, which Tim created in 1998, continues to enable patients from the Franciscan Hospital for Children to watch batting practice and visit with Tim before all Tuesday home games...the patients leave Fenway with T-shirts, gifts, autographs and smiles...not only does Tim spend one-on-one time with the patients, but he has also cohosted a golf tournament on an off day to help raise necessary funds...for his dedication to improving the lives of children and their families in the Boston community, Tim was honored by the Franciscan Hospital for Children with their Community Leadership Award on May 22, 2003...Tim also generously contributes his time and financial resources to his hometown of Melbourne, FL...since Tim reached the major leagues, he has been committed to raising money and awareness for the Space Coast Early Intervention Center, a not-forprofit pre-school and therapeutic center which offers care for children with special needs as well as typically developing children...in January of 2005, Tim hosted the 14th annual Tim Wakefield Celebrity Golf Classic with proceeds benefiting the center...Tim is also actively involved as a generous contributor to Garth Brooks' Touch 'Em All Foundation...for his continued commitment to others, Wake has been nominated by the Red Sox for the Roberto Clemente Award presented by John Hancock 6 times, including each of the last 5 years in a row (1998, 2000-2004)...the award is presented annually by Major League Baseball to the player who best combines baseball skills with devoted work in the community. I'd say his heart is o.k.

posted by justgary at 08:56 PM on October 11

I did not realize that you personally sat down with Tim Wakefield so that you truely know his heart. I have not so I am not going to comment any farther.

posted by skydivemom at 09:11 PM on October 11

Hey, I can speak for myself. Although your arguements are well presented, I never said Wakefields a bad guy. I found his comments to be a bunch of Sour Grapes and so did some commentators on ESPN. I saw the interview with my own eyes. It was anything but gracious and I refuse to put Tim Wakefield on a pedistal or excuse his poor sportsmanship. If he's the Saint you seem to think he is then I imagine he wishes he'd never said them.

posted by skydivedad at 09:21 PM on October 11

Skydivemom, are you trying to be obstinate? Comment no farther, fine. Though, no, I'm not a personal friend of tim wakefield, I'd say what he's done speaks for itself. Tim Wakefield is well known for being as generous a player as you'll find in the majors. If we had more time wakefields, we'd be better off. And he's done it his whole career. It's no well kept secret. So if you want to bury your head in the sand and ignore the facts, because you know, you haven't talked to the man, be my guest. But I'd say action speaks louder than words, and wakefield's actions speak pretty loudly. Skydivedad, we'll just agree to disagree. I rarely agree with the clowns on espn anyway. But though I didn't see him make the comments, even if they were out of line, it was out of frustration I'm sure. Nothing to do with his heart. It was anything but gracious and I refuse to put Tim Wakefield on a pedistal or excuse his poor sportsmanship. If he's the Saint you seem to think he is Jesus. I didn't say he was a saint. I didn't put him on a pedistal. I'm simply showing he's a good guy. If you want to bash him, be my guest. But I'll put his work in the community against one comment anyday. You two are a tough crowd.

posted by justgary at 09:28 PM on October 11

Are skydivemom and skydivedad fighting?

posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:42 PM on October 11

No, they're a tag team it seems.

posted by justgary at 09:44 PM on October 11

Sorry I sounded arrogant just was enjoying a good discussion with justgary. I don't post much but I read everyday (several times a day) and really enjoy you guys and just wanted to get in on it. No skydivedad and me are not fighting I love him very much and I am glad he joined me on this site with his own name.

posted by skydivemom at 09:52 PM on October 11

This is going to be an awesome series between the Angels and White Sox.

posted by skydivemom at 10:07 PM on October 11

yankees yankees blah blah blah. how bout instead of "yankees fall to angels" it's "angels beat yankees". the entire sporting world does not revolve around the yankees...THANK GOD

posted by erikgreenlee at 11:38 PM on October 11

Um, I think you made a mistake. Eric Milton's name should not be in bold. I think I've been sucked in by the hype without looking at the facts. I quick check on baseball-reference.com proves that he's been below-average over his career. In my defence, I'll point out he was an All-Star in 2001.

posted by grum@work at 07:51 AM on October 12

yankees yankees blah blah blah. how bout instead of "yankees fall to angels" it's "angels beat yankees". the entire sporting world does not revolve around the yankees...THANK GOD And yet you've taken the time to drum up your first post and show that, for a moment, they were the center of yours.

posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 09:41 AM on October 12

''I think they're a real good baseball team, but I think we're better." I agree -- Tim Wakefield's a good guy, and the rest of his comments are pretty much about Chicago being a good team. But how can you not classify that statement as sour grapes? I mean, lessee ... you just lost three straight games to them and your record wasn't as good as theirs during the regular season. Maybe he's just using a definition of "better" of which I hadn't been aware. And Gary, you didn't see the interview, right? Sounds like the people who did see it, including the ESPN folks, found it petty. He may have just slipped into dick mode momentarily and forgivably, but just because he's a charitable guy doesn't mean he wasn't an ass for saying what he said.

posted by wfrazerjr at 09:43 AM on October 12

how can you not classify that statement as sour grapes? You can't, really. While I laugh every year when Hines Ward says that about the Pats, it feels different when Wake says it. Then again, he didn't introduce some crazy transitive math, like Hines did when he claimed they were better than the Pats ergo they were the real Superbowl champs.

posted by yerfatma at 10:13 AM on October 12

Was the Red Sox a better team than the Angels/Yankees/Cards last year or did they get on a hot streak?

posted by jerseygirl at 10:30 AM on October 12

And Gary, you didn't see the interview, right? If you want to call this statement: ''I think they're a real good baseball team, but I think we're better." spiteful...we'll just agree to disagree. It's cliched and harmless. Put into the context of what wakefield actually said and it becomes even more harmless. It's making something out of nothing. As far as what the espn guys said, if you want to go by that be my guest. They carry zero weight with me. Controversy equals ratings. He may have just slipped into dick mode momentarily and forgivably Whatever. I don't have much of a problem with the 'sour grapes' angle. It's the "spiteful" comment I disagree with. I just think this is a little bit of a joke. Arod says the same thing, but that's ok, because they went 5 games? It's said all the time. And as far as the boston series, they make the routine play at second and in all probability they win that game. Wakefield doesn't throw the one homerun ball (the one mentioned in the interview), and they win that game. Two plays that turned the games completely around. Two plays that could have given boston a 2-1 series lead. So if we're going with the angle that boston got killed so what the hell is wakefield talking about, I disagree. If you wanna call the man a dick and spiteful and bring his heart into it have at it. I think it was just a man who was frustrated with giving up a homerun that cost his team the game.

posted by justgary at 10:47 AM on October 12

Mea culpa on the Aaron Small thing, that was fairly stupid...I really need to listen to more talk radio, not really a huge baseball 'fan' anyway, just a baseball coach and scout and someone who appreciates the game not the 'media view.' My point about the Yankee farm system was that it is not 'in terrible shape.' How many teams promote 2 players and have them contribute to a division winning team? (Cano/Wang) It is weak at the AAA level, and recent drafts (98-02) have been sub-par. Serves me right for posting from work. People who think this might be comparing to history before the draft, where Yanks and Cards stockpiled talent, doesn't happen any more, and look at some of the Major League Players/ farm products that have succeeded elsewhere, such as Soriano, Lilly, Johnson, Milton (Yes, he is an decent pitcher slightly over .500, he's pitched for some bad teams remember). Someone who has the time should take a look at the average MLB service of Yankee draftees versus other clubs. If I could, I would almost guarantee you that it is above average. I guess if it sucked, they would have a problem making all these trades that people talk about. If they do not have good prospects, why are all the other teams interested in them? Houston Street for Rookie of the Year, thats a fucking joke. He is a relief pitcher. He had 5 wins. He pitched 78 innings. Get real. This is the type of drivel I am talking about. Starting Crosby a mistake? He hit over .325 over his last 25 games or something, he is NOT a 'hole' at the bottom of the order. Hunter over-rated in my view, lifetime average is under .270, which isn't great for an outfielder. Hunter's a better player, but I'll take Crosby at the age and for the money anyday. WS? Angels in 6 over Houston

posted by sfts2 at 11:54 AM on October 12

O.k. I looked for the interview and couldn't find it. Only found a local interview where wakefield said all the right things, you know, they deserve it, etc. etc. Just to clarify, I have no problem with saying it's sour grapes. I just disagreed with the 'spiteful' part. I understand how he feels. But we don't want our athletes to be honest. We want the disney version.

posted by justgary at 12:07 PM on October 12

He is a relief pitcher. He had 5 wins. He pitched 78 innings. he was more than just a relief pitcher, he became their closer (guess you overlooked the 23 saves). Street pitched the same amount of innings that Rivera did this year, and there's Cy Young consideration for Mo. so considering Street for ROY is not a fucking joke. while i would love to see Cano get ROY, if Huston won it i would not be upset. now, if Iguchi won it, that's a different story.

posted by goddam at 12:24 PM on October 12

Yeah but can't you be the better team and just blow it? If not, than the upper eschelon teams would never get swept in a regular season match-up by the lower eschelon teams. And you know this happens all the time. It doesn't mean Y is better than X though, does it? That was my point with the "Were the Red Sox better than any of the teams they beat to win the WS last year" query. I don't know if they were better than the Cards or any of their post-season competition. On paper, probably not, and they didn't have a better win-loss record than anyone else in the MLB...

posted by jerseygirl at 12:27 PM on October 12

I really need to listen to more talk radio No.

posted by yerfatma at 12:29 PM on October 12

how bout instead of "yankees fall to angels" it's "angels beat yankees". the entire sporting world does not revolve around the yankees...THANK GOD posted by erikgreenlee You're lucky. I started to write "yankees lose series" and not even mention the angels. You would have been superduper mad then!!!11

posted by justgary at 06:31 PM on October 12

By the way, gary, your post's wording is wrong. It leads to believe that the Yankees will now take on the White Sox, despite losing to the Angels.

posted by qbert72 at 11:43 PM on October 12

Fixed, thanks.

posted by justgary at 12:33 AM on October 13

Well that was quick. I wish we could all do this. Now your correction does remove context for the "yankees fall to angels" comments. How about "Yankees fall to Angels, who will now take on White Sox"?

posted by qbert72 at 12:43 AM on October 13

Earth to Goddam, Closers ARE relievers. Street had a great year, and will probably or maybe evolve into a dominating closer. In my opinion, he WILL NOT win ROY. Just like Mariano Rivera will not win MVP or probably even CY. Him winning ROY would be as idiotic as Ortiz winning MVP without playing defense.

posted by sfts2 at 08:38 AM on October 13

yeah, no shit sfts2. that's why i said he was "more than just a relief pitcher", which i think clearly acknowledges the fact that he is a freakin' relief pitcher. i was placing more importance on the fact that he stepped into the closer role instead of just being a mop up guy or something.

posted by goddam at 09:45 AM on October 13

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