Could Reggie be losing the heisman?: An eight-month probe uncovers evidence that Reggie Bush and his family appear to have accepted improper benefits from prospective agents while at USC.
posted by jojomfd1 to football at 10:59 PM - 45 comments
Stupid to yank his trophy from him, when OJ and Ricky Williams still have theirs.
posted by Bonkers at 01:37 AM on September 15
I don't recall O.J., or Ricky, being accused of breaking NCAA rules, and if they were, nothing came out of it. It was just a matter of time before this dam broke, judging by the details Yahoo disclosed months ago.
posted by mjkredliner at 02:05 AM on September 15
Yank the trophies from OJ and Williams? C'mon. They didn't break the NCAA's by-laws. Just the laws that govern society.
posted by forrestv at 02:08 AM on September 15
Wasn't OJ found not guilty? And Ricky......well....
posted by kcfan4life at 05:59 AM on September 15
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 06:32 AM on September 15
OJ and Williams might have broke the law (well OJ was found innocent regardless of if he did it or not). However what Bush did would have made him ineligible. Not only might he have to give the Heisman back but USC could be have to retroactively forfeit the games he played in which would also strip them of their national title in 2004.
posted by T.C. at 06:51 AM on September 15
Can't help but comment on the temptation of money in college football. Agents are so eager to sign these prospects and they seem willing to ignore the NCAA rules. I'm sure its very hard for a poor player to ignore the money being put in front of them. If only the players were compensated for their skills other than tuition, room, and board. Then they might not have to be tempted by the unscrupulous agent. Tuition, room and board is hardly a fair exchange for the revenue they help generate, in my humble opinion. Its a very harsh lesson to be stripped of the trophy and to forfeit all the games but one that has to be implemented. I am not well versed on the rules agents must obey. Are they to be punished as well?
posted by panteeze at 07:37 AM on September 15
Take his trophy and lets not bitch because someone else didn't get sanctioned. Break the rules pay the price. Get real.
posted by T$PORT4lawschool at 08:06 AM on September 15
The real question is, if they take his trophy back, do they then give it to the runner up from last year or would there just be no winner???
posted by Debo270 at 08:32 AM on September 15
For all of us who contributed in one way or another to the Abolish the NCAA debate, this is exactly why the NCAA must continue to exist. It is also the reason why the NCAA has to get a hell of a lot better at enforcing its rules. The kid at Clemson (see the link) is suffering because of slime like those who attached themselves to Reggie Bush.
posted by Howard_T at 08:51 AM on September 15
Alright, say he loses the trophy. Then who would the Heisman winner be? I vote for Vince Young.
posted by 1964joe at 09:03 AM on September 15
Like I asked earlier: if they take his trophy back, do they then give it to the runner up from last year or would there just be no winner???
posted by Debo270 at 09:09 AM on September 15
We so need a Flag Comment button.
posted by Mr Bismarck at 09:10 AM on September 15
I agree. Take his trophy and give it to Vince Young. Young was a one man team and I believe deserved the Heisman anyway. Doesn't anyone find it ironic ,that whenever a program becomes dominant, they are rocked constantly with scandilous acts. Miami, Free Shoes University (FSU), University Show the Cash(USC). I don't know who does a better job of turning their head and playing DUMB! Pete Carroll or Bobby Bowden?
posted by phillygator at 09:33 AM on September 15
What I don't get is why take away the Heisman trophy? All the dealings according to the article and the yoohoo investigations revolve around LaMar Griffin, both Michael Michaels and Lloyd Lake who pitched the initial idea of forming a sports agency and using Bush as the anchor client in October of 2004. A house in San Diego that Reggies mom and stepdad failed to pay rent on for some seven months all to try and start a new sports/entertainment agency. I truely doubt Reggie had any clue of the financial dealings going on around him. Other than a nice Chevy SS he got to drive around town in.
posted by Folkways at 09:51 AM on September 15
Who knew Yahoo had crack investigative reporters? Bush should contract yahoo to find Bin Ladin. The one thing I don't like about the way this is set up, there's no consequence to the player. I doubt he cares much about a trophy. Maybe they could have NCAA athletes sign some sort of contract whereby if they're found guilty of accepting money, a significant monetary fine will be applied. Hit em where it hurts, the pocketbook, and maybe it would prevent a little of the cheating.
posted by Bill Lumbergh at 10:02 AM on September 15
My guess would be that he'll be allowed to keep the Heisman, but USC will be heavily sanctioned for all this. There's no excuse for a program that big to just turn it's back on what was going on, someone had to know what was happening. They probably didn't want to risk making him mad and having him leave early, but of course after his junior year it was obvious he wasn't staying anyway. Pucker up, SC, here it comes..................
posted by eccsport78 at 10:13 AM on September 15
Bush should contract yahoo to find Bin Laden. Us USC haters are just glad that Al Gore allows Yahoo to use that internet thingy he invented.
posted by mjkredliner at 10:41 AM on September 15
Take that trophy away from him.
posted by tim at 11:18 AM on September 15
Take the trophy away from him,they took Jim Thorps medals.
posted by rfg3rd at 11:26 AM on September 15
Does anyone really care about this? It's too little, too late.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 11:33 AM on September 15
Reggie Bush is going to be a terror on the NFL regardless whether he has a Heisman or not. I agree, that yes, if he did anything wrong, the rules are the rules. But do people actually think that #25 is going to care about some trophy while he's getting paid beyond his wildest imagination. The kid is a stud, point blank. What he does on the field as a professional football player and what he did as a college athlete are two different things and he's now only going to concern himself with the life of a pro. Granted, the trophy should stay with Reggie until all of the facts are taken account for and all signs point to him having knowledge of money exchanging hands, but the information being given are from people with hidden agendas. Former this and former that, people are just upset that Reggie has decided to go with another agent and they're not getting paid. Plain & simple! People always have a purpose when it comes to the almighty dollar, especially when it comes down to a talent like Reggie Bush. Does anyone remember the incident that happened to Lebron James before he got into the NBA? It's deja vu all over again- Thank Yogi Bear for that one.
posted by BornIcon at 11:51 AM on September 15
Take the trophy away from him,they took Jim Thorps medals. /desperately awaits final line of broken haiku
posted by yerfatma at 11:58 AM on September 15
Take the trophy away from him,they took Jim Thorps medals. Two different theys. Not to mention they gave Jim Thorps [sic] medals back. And OJ & Ricky don't belong in this thread either. They didn't do what Reggie did. So to that point, what did Reggie do? And what purpose would be served by taking his Heisman away now? I say let him keep it, and make the rules against this stuff clearer and more enforceable (before these trophies are handed out) next time. Nothing that went down here made him gain more yards or score more touchdowns. This smacks of cutting off his nose to spite his face, and there's way, way, way too much of that in sports already. Punishments are often deserved, and if someone did something that affected their performance on the field of play (see Landis, Floyd), then this discussion becomes pertinent. But even if Reggie Bush did break this rule, it didn't change any of his on-field accomplishments, and taking his Heisman away seems to me to be way too ex-post-facto, arbitrary and not a little bit vindictive.
posted by chicobangs at 12:05 PM on September 15
I agree with chico. I think it is a little over the top to take someone's award away more than a year later. On another note, USC informed the parents of the rules. They signed a form acknowledging that they were informed. If USC is penalized for this, then universities are going to be asked to find out where all the parents of all the athletes live and work and whether they deserve the salary they make and can afford the houses they live in. It seems highly invasive. How is an 18-22 year old kid supposed to stop his parents from getting money and benefits from others? Or is he just supposed to turn them in to the NCAA and destroy his future eligibility?
posted by bperk at 12:24 PM on September 15
Remember, this was not an alumnus giving money to Bush and his family, this was an agent. Reggie and his family are not stupid, they knew what they were doing was against NCAA rules, let them live with their, and the NCAA's, decision.
posted by mjkredliner at 12:33 PM on September 15
I don't remember what Ricky Williams suposedly did, but O.J. lost his trophy to the State of CA. I think Reggie new what was going on, he is young, but not stupid.
posted by bo_fan at 12:56 PM on September 15
The NCAA is a little insane. as a former D-1 football player, I had the chance to see all of these rules and in reality, the NC double assholes could bust 90% of the football players in the country for some rules violations. I could have lost my eligibility for filling out a college basketball pull for the big dance. if anyone is interested go here http://www.ncaa.org/library/rules/2006/2006_football_rules.pdf you can read the 253 page NCAA football guidelines. How many players drafted this year do you think had families getting $$$ from agents to sign their kid. I will bet its well over half of the first round guys. I know someone from a local High School who was drafted in the 6th round this year. I know his family and their financial backround. I will bet that mom, dad, and player didn't pay for the Lincoln Navigators they were all driving out of pocket. Reggie is just the biggest name this year so he is the biggest target.
posted by Debo270 at 01:07 PM on September 15
On another note, USC informed the parents of the rules. They signed a form acknowledging that they were informed. If USC is penalized for this, then universities are going to be asked to find out where all the parents of all the athletes live and work and whether they deserve the salary they make and can afford the houses they live in. It seems highly invasive. I don't see how the parents have any legal authority in this matter. College atheletes over the age of 18 are legal consenting adults. The actions of the parent should have no consequence on the athelete. It seems absurd to me that Reggie's parents actions can affect him in this situation.
posted by panteeze at 02:03 PM on September 15
Let prospective first rounders, and their families, accept bribes, and let the other 355,600 student athletes languish under the rules? No, I think they can conform to the same rules as everyone else, if not, they do not deserve to compete for the same honors as the ones that do play by the rules.
posted by mjkredliner at 02:37 PM on September 15
Arrest the agents for bribery. Ban them from further contact with college kids.
posted by grampsw at 02:50 PM on September 15
Us USC haters are just glad that Al Gore allows Yahoo to use that internet thingy he invented. Lame.
posted by Venicemenace at 05:28 PM on September 15
posted by irunfromclones at 06:04 PM on September 15
Picking up on chicobangs, a hypothesis: bankrolling is to NCAA sport what doping is to professional cycling. Meaning, if you want to dig there, it's going to get very very ugly.
posted by etagloh at 09:04 PM on September 15
I agree with Debo in so far as the NCAA rules are absurd and unless you're a lawyer no one can fully understand all of them (and I say that as a former walk-on D-1 track athlete, last place up and down the east coast). That said, I think that its reasonable to assume if an agent gives you a car than you are breaking the rules, and if you knowingly break the rules deal with it. He doesn't have anywhere near the problems that some people have
posted by kyrilmitch_76 at 09:08 PM on September 15
Reggie isn't the biggest name of the year, he's not even the biggest name in his sport.
posted by ryemonster at 09:53 PM on September 15
You know, the Heisman is neat and all, but it's just another award. Media representatives and former awardees vote on a winner and not the public (though I don't think anyone but homers would argue that Bush wasn't the best college player last season.) If we were so inclined, we here at SpoFi could pitch in and award Bush our own award, maybe a Costanza trophy? What do you think?
posted by forrestv at 11:54 PM on September 15
I think the agent's should have some type of consequence for their actions also. Their allowed to just waye money in front of these kids eyes until one of them takes it and then the kid loses his education????
posted by LaKeR4LiFe at 11:54 AM on September 16
...a hypothesis: bankrolling is to NCAA sport what doping is to professional cycling. Meaning, if you want to dig there, it's going to get very very ugly. I suspect this is very true, and one of these years someone will do that spadework. This could easily be for next year's slow-sports-news-cycle what steroids & PEDs have been for '05 & '06.
posted by chicobangs at 12:06 PM on September 16
Lame. Yeah. So was the joke I was mocking.
posted by mjkredliner at 05:06 PM on September 16
And, of course, you had to mock it, since it said something about George Bush. You do realize, you're not in the Secret Service, you don't have to protect the guy.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 01:01 PM on September 17
He needs no protection, everything will be just fine, TBH.
posted by mjkredliner at 05:44 PM on September 17
All right, will someone please take a moment from crucifying Reggie Bush and explain, what, on the grand scale of morality and humanity, Reggie Bush did wrong? I used the examples of OJ (not convicted, but found liable in civil court, which is not exactly a measure of innocence) and Ricky Williams (sidenote-Ricky was kicked out of football for a year for smoking weed, albeit on his third offense. Jamal Lewis got four games away for TRAFFICKING drugs. Explain that for me). Reggie Bush used the system to support his family and make money. Fine, so be it. The system uses Reggie Bush to make money, but makes it so that Reggie can't reciprocate. The notion of amateurism in today's day and age of megaprograms and sports running schools is idiotic. So Reggie Bush violated some stupid rules designed to maintain his amateur status? How, on principle, is it different from, say Jeff Samardzija (sp?) getting paid $250000 for a boxing match against a bum? And how is that last action realistically different from Jeremy Bloom getting paid for endorsements from a career outside of college football? They aren't. I have long ago refused to fall into the NCAA's line about the need to retain an ideal of amteurism to maintain the spirit of the sport (a sport which the NCAA, a nonprofit organization, is free to make large amounts of money off of). Amateurism is dead and should be pushed away to change the situation to reflect the realities of the world.
posted by Bonkers at 03:21 PM on September 18
Bloom was declared ineligible for college football as a result of accepting endorsements and Tom Zbikowski's boxing match resulted in prize money, which is legal under the NCAA's rules. I have no problem with these kids being able to earn a living from college ball though, especially as it seems to be getting more and more tv time.
posted by Mr Bismarck at 03:33 PM on September 18
The notion of amateurism in today's day and age of megaprograms and sports running schools is idiotic. Well, why not do away with the notion of the competitors being 'students'? Sure, the alumni bankroll the programs, but if you're going to sacrifice the facade of amateurism, why not make the whole 'getting a degree' thing optional? I'm playing devil's advocate here, but like I said: if you're going to start digging from the top down, you're going to be forced to confront what's in the hole.
posted by etagloh at 01:48 AM on September 19
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