Bud says no celebration for Barry: when (or if?) he breaks Ruth's record. It's fine with me if he never steps foot on a diamond again.
posted by GoBirds to baseball at 05:01 PM - 63 comments
Delightful by Selig.
posted by MassNole at 05:03 PM on April 27
It's fine with me if he never steps foot on a diamond again. Yeah, I can't wait for Selig to leave.
posted by chicobangs at 05:10 PM on April 27
Selig didn't say anything about "stepping foot on the diamond". That's the poster's quote. I can't believe I'm sticking up for Selig, but there you go.
posted by pauleye at 05:18 PM on April 27
I was kidding. Sorry my snark wasn't obvious. (Don't defend Selig unnecessarily; you know he's not worth it.) But to be honest, if Bonds gets #714 (or #715) at home, I hope there's still some kind of celebration. They don't have to stop the game, but as far as I care, a healthy curtain call for such an achievement, regardless of the surrounding drama, is entirely justified.
posted by chicobangs at 05:26 PM on April 27
I hope he does get it at home. On the road it's going to be ugly, and it's not going to be good for mlb, no matter what anyone thinks of bonds.
posted by justgary at 05:30 PM on April 27
it doesnt matter where he breaks it im going to celebrate it
posted by fingers at 05:33 PM on April 27
(insert bonds insult here)
posted by ninjavshippo at 05:36 PM on April 27
I hope it happens in Philly. The way the Phil's pitcher's are playing, it probably will. He will be drowned in boos, I think. Although we are very tough on "villianous" opponents, we did give Mario Lemieux a very long ovation upon his 1st retirement. I was actually proud of the crowd at that Flyers game.
posted by pauleye at 05:44 PM on April 27
Selig's point is that it's Aaron's record. Ruth hasn't had the record for 30 some odd years. Bonds will simply surpass Babe's personal best. Such an iconic mark it was until Aaron that it deserves some attention - we're talking about it & the fans will react - it doesn't seem that Selig would object to the Giants celebrating. He just doesn't feel obligated to have the MLB represented or hand out a plaque. I agree.
posted by knuckleballer at 05:55 PM on April 27
for once, I agree with Selig - when Bonds passes Ruth, that puts him in second place on the all time list. There's never usually a celebration for a guy getting second place, why would there be one now?
posted by Toxteth O'Grady at 06:08 PM on April 27
I recall there was a moment to signify Bonds' passing of Willie Mays. Selig's an ass. And I hope Barry does it at home too. And I hope that I'm there to enjoy it.
posted by fenriq at 06:08 PM on April 27
Obviously we've ran threw about every critiscism and support you can have for Bonds, but I think that he should get at least a moment. Allegations aside, he will be breaking the most hallowed record in baseball, something that has not happened very often. Toxeth, second place in this case is very different than in most cases. For one, Babe Ruth is a legend and another, it is immensely difficult to get to even 600 home runs. To pass 715 is an immense achievement and should be recognized.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 06:17 PM on April 27
I'm just happy the Ruth heirs will be spared the infamy of having to be present as Bonds steals a record honestly gained by others.
posted by irunfromclones at 06:22 PM on April 27
Me too Pauleye, proud of the Flyers fans that night that is. Betcha if Bonds does it in Philly they throw the ball back. Wonder how much that bad boy would be worth?
posted by GoBirds at 06:27 PM on April 27
Toxeth Where is st louis sandi when I need a definition?
posted by Termite at 06:35 PM on April 27
Two things: 1) It may not be the record anymore, but 714 is still a mythical number. People who know next to nothing about baseball know the significance of that number. 2) The precedent was set when he passed 660 and they stopped the game. Nothing, in a legal or even a MLB rules sense, has changed since then. That's the case for doing something.
posted by chicobangs at 06:40 PM on April 27
Ruth's "record" is no longer a record. He is surpassing Ruth, not breaking a record. Was there a cake with dancing girls when Rose laced hit 3772 to pass Aaron for second place on the hits list? No. A curtain call, and a standing ovation, especially if it is a meaningful, game changing homer would not be unreasonable, though, and I think that even those fans who are as skeptical of Barry as myself will even grant him that, regardless of what ballpark it is done in.
posted by mjkredliner at 06:45 PM on April 27
The precedent was set when he passed 660 and they stopped the game. Nothing, in a legal or even a MLB rules sense, has changed since then. That's the case for doing something. Agreed, but what if he hits it on the road? I think that's the problem. Stopping play, letting bonds say a few words, those types of things could be disastrous on the road.
posted by justgary at 06:47 PM on April 27
ignore the trolls, y'all. When was there cake and dancing girls? I missed that milestone. They should do that as often as possible. I might even start going to games again if there's cake & dancing girls.
posted by chicobangs at 06:51 PM on April 27
I wonder if McGuire played long enough and passed Ruth would Selig be there.
posted by doggstarr at 07:53 PM on April 27
"We don't celebrate anybody the second or third time in." I think that comment tells the whole story. He's passing someone for second not first all-time. WHEN he hits 715 give him the curtain call, go wild, ect. IF he pass Aaron give him the accolades he deserves. This record is tainted, only time will tell how BB is going to go down.
posted by HATER 187 at 07:53 PM on April 27
C'mon guys lets not needle old Barry too much now
posted by markhjohn at 08:11 PM on April 27
The record Ruth actually holds is in career home runs is the AL record, with 708. But Bonds has never hit a homerun in the American League, and he's hit very few against the American League.
posted by spira at 08:21 PM on April 27
We celebrate every 300 game winner, and every 3000 hit guy. Why not show a little respect. At the end of the day he still hit every one of those balls out of the park. If he juiced when it wasn't tested for so what, if he passes every test now what has he done wrong? 714 just shows how much respect the world still has for babe. Too bad Griffey never did juice or cream or whatever, he could have had iron ankles and hit a lot of homeruns..... That was a joke.
posted by BigSpizznizzle at 08:40 PM on April 27
I agree with BigSpizz, show a little respect. After all, the guy is 40-41 years old now and will be out of the game very soon. Personally I don't care for the guy, but he is a very good all-around player. Or at least used to be...........
posted by wdminott at 09:37 PM on April 27
Was that joke OK'ed by the Anti Troll Committee and Panel for Analogous Humor, BigSpizznizzle?
posted by mjkredliner at 09:57 PM on April 27
I'm not saying don't show respect. Let him take a curtain call, something like that, sure; just don't make more of it than it is - second place on the list. If his body were to hold up long enough for him to pass Aaron, that's when you stop games and give speeches.
posted by Toxteth O'Grady at 10:21 PM on April 27
as Bonds steals a record honestly gained by others. I have a feeling that we could pump you full of twice the amount of juice that Bonds may have taken and you couldn't hit a hefty bag full of nickels if you swung a ladder at it. Here is the only problem I have. Cal Ripken jr. Never missed a game for I don't know how many years in a row and nobody finds that suspicious? Bret Farve is considered and iron man after he has admitted using pain killers (narcotics), which give you an obvious edge in a contact sport. No problem there. Bonds never tests positive for steroids ( like Palmeiro did) and he is "stealing records". If Bonds uses roids then so did Mcguire and no one has/had a problem with him riding around the stadium in a car with Roger M's family present celebrating what he did. If Bonds never tested positive for steroids why are his records tainted? Farve has been popping percocet for Lord knows how long, any record he ends up with won't be "tainted". If Juice helps you hit homers, why isn't every competitor in the Mr. Olympia leading the league in jacks. Arnold S. (obvious juicer) wins a few Olympia titles, becomes a big american movie star, you buy your kid action figures that are built just like him, he transcends the sport of bodybuilding, and gets rewarded with political office (and he is not even an american). But Bonds can't get a shoutout for hitting more home runs then the best baseball player ever? A blind man facing a brick wall in the dark could see that there is something wrong with that IMHO.
posted by Bishop at 10:46 PM on April 27
If Bonds uses roids then so did Mcguire and no one has/had a problem with him riding around the stadium in a car with Roger M's family present celebrating what he did. I agree with you bishop, it seems to be a double standard based on what we know now versus what we knew then and lets not forget about Sosa, who incidentily fell off the face of the earth. No matter what public opion says he has not been found guilty of anything.Personally as a Giant fan, I would like him to just go away, God only knows what kind of team they could buy with his salary freed up>
posted by jknemo at 10:59 PM on April 27
If Bonds uses roids then so did Mcguire and no one has/had a problem with him riding around the stadium in a car with Roger M's family present celebrating what he did. In all fairness, those were different times. Not comparable. McGuire's legacy is ruined in many people's eyes. He just deals with it by going into hiding.
posted by justgary at 11:56 PM on April 27
If people think Bonds didn't juice becaue nobody found him guilty then I hope their principles are the same=example: there may still be WMD's in Iraq, OJ didn't kill anybody or Robert Blake didn't do anything either. Good night.
posted by T$PORT4lawschool at 12:19 AM on April 28
I'm just happy the Ruth heirs will be spared the infamy of having to be present as Bonds steals a record honestly gained by others. Just for the record, Babe Ruth used to cheat. "Ruth was caught using a trick bat in a game in August, 1923." "Ruth tested the limits of the rules constantly; this was what made him who he was. He refused to be ordinary; he refused to accept that the rules applied to him, until it was clear that they did." (The New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract)
posted by grum@work at 12:29 AM on April 28
Blake Guilty. O.J, we all know but he is a free man, wmd's much too sensitive for a sports filter.
posted by BigSpizznizzle at 12:36 AM on April 28
T$SPORT4lawschool, all those examples are outside the realm of this site.
posted by chicobangs at 12:50 AM on April 28
Ah, I'm comfortable with an acknowledgement. Actually, when the time comes I feel that it will be conspicuous by its absence. However, at the same time, I do agree that 716 is no longer the record, and doesn't deserve the red carpet treatment.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 07:37 AM on April 28
Q: What does baseball have planned for Bonds' upcoming mark of 2749 games played? Selig: Nothing. Headline: MLB Snubbing Bonds' Achievements Q. Mr. Selig, will you be in attendance when Bonds gets his 78th triple? Selig: Uh, probably not. Headline: Selig To Turn His Back on Bonds Feat Q. Bud, is 711 more or less than 714. Selig: I think less. Headline: Selig: Bonds Doesn't Measure Up To Ruth
posted by BullpenPro at 07:58 AM on April 28
T$SPORT4lawschool, all those examples are outside the realm of this site And they're obviously still not teaching that whole "innocent until proven guilty", "beyond reasonable doubt" or "trial by a jury of his peers" thing wherever he's studying law, either.
posted by owlhouse at 07:58 AM on April 28
Probably learning the legal system from the inside, given his usual take on it.
posted by yerfatma at 08:31 AM on April 28
The record Ruth actually holds is in career home runs is the AL record, with 708. But Bonds has never hit a homerun in the American League, and he's hit very few against the American League. ruth also has the most career home runs hit by a lefthander. so bonds would be breaking a record that ruth currently holds.
posted by goddam at 08:35 AM on April 28
The precedent was set when he passed 660 and they stopped the game. Nothing, in a legal or even a MLB rules sense, has changed since then. That's the case for doing something. Although I sort-of agree with the previous comment in the same post (about 714 being a mythical number) - I couldn't disagree with this more. Using 661 as justification for demanding a celebration of 715 is a major stretch. When Bonds hit 600 and 661: - he did it in his home park - to pass arguably the greatest player to ever play on the same team - to pass his godfather Particularly the last 2 are pretty distinct issues. For example, I don't remember anything major for Pete Rose when he passed Aaron for 2nd on the all-time hits lits ... and I didn't expect anything to be held in his honor. If it happens at SBC, have at it San Fran, do whatever you want for one of your own players. If it happens on the road, kudos to the fans if they decide to give him an ovation. But, I think it's entirely acceptable and appropriate for MLB not to officially organize something. And, frankly, to demand something from MLB - seems to be supported only by a desire to stick it to MLB because someone doesn't like the ways Bonds has been "treated".
posted by littleLebowski at 09:40 AM on April 28
T$SPORT4lawschool, all those examples are outside the realm of this site And they're obviously still not teaching that whole "innocent until proven guilty", "beyond reasonable doubt" or "trial by a jury of his peers" thing wherever he's studying law, either. Owlhouse it is obvious by your rhetoric you know nothing about the law or what tests there are for guilt. Aknowledge what I wrote, not what you see on some TV court show.
posted by T$PORT4lawschool at 10:30 AM on April 28
Owlhouse it is obvious by your rhetoric you know nothing about the law or what tests there are for guilt. I'd say Owlhouse has exhibited reasonable knowledge on this subject, $port. You, on the other hand, have exhibited an irrational willingness to convict Bonds on circumstantial evidence, you consistently spit in the face of, or outright deny, the basic precepts of American law, you write poorly and your spelling is atrocious. I'm no lawyer, but I'm guessing that bar exam is going to be a bear.
posted by BullpenPro at 11:12 AM on April 28
Ahhhh! WTF? Who left the italics door open? What were you born in a barn or something?
posted by njsk8r20 at 11:26 AM on April 28
littleLebowski, I was merely saying that there was precedent on both sides of the ceremony/no ceremony issue, if someone felt they needed it. I was trying to illustrate that Selig had his mind made up as part of the whole authority kick he's on these days. You're right: those mitigating factors were all a part of why the "661" party went down, and you know? A lot of how these ceremonies happen is site-specific anyway. And nobody, least of all Bonds himself, is "demanding" anything from MLB. I really, really hope he does it at home, though. The hate elsewhere would be too much for maybe even a curtain call, and frankly, this is an achievement that deserves a little dap, at least.
posted by chicobangs at 11:26 AM on April 28
I'm not calling for a major game stopping celebration, but I am calling for an acknowledgement by MLB that a historic marker has been passed. That Selig publicly snubbed Bonds before he breaks Ruth's record is a pretty clear sign to me that Selig wants to use Bonds as his 'roids scapegoat to try and keep the stink of off himself. And Bud Selig just doesn't like Barry Bonds (or Pete Rose, who should, without a doubt, be in the HoF). How else could he have tried and found Bonds guilty before even the findings from his investigation?
posted by fenriq at 11:53 AM on April 28
Hey a mods there is a definite problem here. Either that or we are all being transformed into uneducated trolls. Arrrrgh!!!!!!!!
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 11:56 AM on April 28
Celebrating Bonds passing Ruth for second place is like having a junior high school graduation. What's the point.
posted by Desert Dog at 12:08 PM on April 28
chico - It just sounded like you and others (fenriq, for example) were clamoring for some kind of official hoopla, without justification, IMHO. I still don't agree with any argument I've seen that baseball owes Bonds anything for passing 714 - much like they don't owe any other player any celebration/acknolwedgement for a similar situation. And although I personally won't clap my pinkies together when Bond passes anyone, even if he hit 715 into my front yard - I don't begrudge any individual who wishes to acknolwedge it ... and, I totally agree, but only for the sake of baseball, I hope he does it in SF. Otherwise, it unfortunately wouldn't be limited to a "silent disapproval" by the local fans - I'm sure things would get ugly.
posted by littleLebowski at 01:04 PM on April 28
Its so pretty in here, it looks like a wedding invitation.
posted by jerseygirl at 01:27 PM on April 28
straighten up, y'all.
posted by gspm at 01:58 PM on April 28
I'd go so far as to hope that if he gets to 713, Felipe Alou would pull him and only play him in home games until he hits the next two. Otherwise, I'd genuinely fear for his safety.
posted by chicobangs at 02:28 PM on April 28
Maybe that's why they've been sitting him a lot early on -- to throw off the scent for a scenario like that. Good call, chicobangs.
posted by BullpenPro at 02:39 PM on April 28
chicobangs, an interesting and good thought. I see opposing managers and pitchers walking him to avoid being the guy who served up #715. Has MLB stepped up security for Bonds yet? There's only been one other throwing incident that I can remember. But there are also some crazy ass rabid mofo baseball fans out there. And, thanks gspm. I was getting cockeyed there.
posted by fenriq at 02:54 PM on April 28
I'd go so far as to hope that if he gets to 713, Felipe Alou would pull him and only play him in home games until he hits the next two. That would be a smart move. straighten up, y'all. I think everyone's up straight now.
posted by justgary at 06:29 PM on April 28
Has MLB stepped up security for Bonds yet? There's only been one other throwing incident that I can remember. But there are also some crazy ass rabid mofo baseball fans out there. I remember some dolt on this site making some vague threats about some group of St. Louis fans planning "something big" when Bonds came to town. His comments gave the impression that the syringe throwing incident would be small potatoes compared to what he "had planned". Sadly, the comment (and probably the moron who wrote it) have been removed from SpoFi. It originally resided in this discussion.
posted by grum@work at 08:23 PM on April 28
I remember that. Can't say I'm sad about it being missing though. Forgive me, I'm not a baseball fan (yet, but the spofites are working on me), but how often do they actually stop a game to recognize someone breaking a record? or moving up a ladder? I haven't seen that happen in the sports I follow. It's always a pregame or postgame thing. (well, except for hat tricks, but that's only to pick the hats up off the ice)
posted by njsk8r20 at 09:44 PM on April 28
Forgive me, I'm not a baseball fan (yet, but the spofites are working on me), but how often do they actually stop a game to recognize someone breaking a record? or moving up a ladder? They used to save the celebration for after the game (like Maris' 61st home run), but I think the first time I can remember them interrupting the game was when Hank Aaron passed Ruth on the all-time HR list (and was greeted by a crowd of people, including his mother). The big turning point for mid-game celebrations would be Cal Ripken's "stadium celebration lap" for passing the Iron Horse for consecutive games played. That lasted a very long time (but was in no way boring). Since then, MLB has had no problem interrupting the game to do a celebration (McGwire, Ichiro, Palmeiro, etc). I can't remember cleary, but didn't the NHL do a quick celebration when Gretzky passed Howe in the all-time points category?
posted by grum@work at 11:49 PM on April 28
grum, that lap of Cal with the never ending flash bulbs going off is one of the best memories I have of the game of baseball. It still gives me goosebumps. I remember the St. Louis fan with the plan. I hope they've reconsidered. Bonds was awesome tonight. Playing in pain or no, the man can hit.
posted by fenriq at 12:33 AM on April 29
Hey, grum, I remember that guy -- he went on in a subsequent post to proclaim the many wonderful vices you can find in Key West. Obviously, his big "sting" was a nationwide operation. Fortunately, it was not supposed to happen until September -- he should be in prison by then. And I have to be honest about the Cal thing. I'm a big baseball fan, and my brother (a big baseball and Red Sox fan, in that order) and I were both living in DC at the time, and we both had the same reaction. After months of regional media overhype and Tom Boswell basking in the glory that is Cal, the actual celebration was confectionary sugar on top of a dessert that was already too sweet. I acknowledge that Cal's achievement contributed greatly to baseball's recovery from the 1994 strike, and I'm pleased about that, but that "lap dance" was just nauseatingly long and drawn out for me. I don't think that will be a concern with Bonds, though. I don't see Barry taking laps and high-fiving the fans. Not his style.
posted by BullpenPro at 09:57 AM on April 29
Ahh, Bullpenpro, I'd been drinking all afternoon and was in the bar with a good pal. And I'd probably gotten laid the night/morning before.
posted by fenriq at 01:37 PM on April 29
but that "lap dance" was just nauseatingly long and drawn out for me. Hey, a lap dance is always better if the stripper is crying. As for Bonds passing the 714 mark I just cant see any reason for a game stoping celebration. I did actually enjoy watching Cal share his moment with the fans, even if it was a bit long.
posted by Folkways at 01:39 PM on April 29
bishop- obviously you have never read any of my other posts. I live in the Bay Area and have been a Giants fan since the season they moved into Candlestick Park. I have always felt that if MLB or the government goes after Bonds, they should also go after McGuire, Giambi, Sheffield, Palmeiro, and anyone else who might have cheated. And that goes for any athlete in any sport that uses any substance to enhance their performance. It's pure bullshit that they aren't guilty just because their particular enhancement wasn't illegal at the time. It still diminishes not only the player and their accomplishments, but the entire sport. and bishop, I have never subjected you to a personal attack, but any time you want, I'll take a ladder and knock a hefty bag of nickels between your eyes, and do it without any juice.
posted by irunfromclones at 05:32 PM on May 02
I'm free thursday at 6:45 am. Meet me at the airport in Philly?
posted by Bishop at 04:07 PM on May 06
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