FanDuel - WFBC

June 15, 2006

When Ozzie tells you to plunk, you plunk...or get plunked: In the White Sox vs. Rangers game yesterday, rookie reliever Sean Tracey got yanked after what looked like a failed plunk attempt on Hank Blalock (who grounded out.) Tracey, who got called up to replace the injured Cliff Politte, got an earful from manager Ozzie Guillen, then demoted back to Triple A. Does Tracey deserve sympathy or did he get what he deserved?

posted by forrestv to baseball at 07:32 AM - 109 comments

I love Ozzie Guillen the person, but the second that team goes south, he's going to get axed and rightfully so. That Old School shit is fine if you want to play that way, but don't shake some rookie's confidence because he didn't hit a major league star. All he managed to do was get Blalock out. If this rookie was demoted solely because of not hitting a guy, that's silly and the GM needs to stop being best friends with Ozzie and make sensible decisions. However, too much goes into the management of mid-season bullpens to know if that was the reason or not. The article is light on those details and I'm not a White Sox fan, so I have no idea.

posted by yerfatma at 07:46 AM on June 15

Not sure what to make of this. My first thought is that this is kind of a rough spot in which to place a rookie. The kid looked like he was crying. I guess one could say that this was just Ozzie being Ozzie!

posted by daddisamm at 07:49 AM on June 15

I'm sick of AL pitchers throwing at batters intentionally anyways. The only way this stupid crap will stop is if a team has one of their own pitchers take a ball in the ear when he's standing in the box, something that obviously will never happen in the AL. Ozzie brings in a guy he basically has no use for, at this particular time, and tells him to throw at Blalock? I long for the days of baseball past when all pitchers batted, they could throw inside, and they policed themselves when it came to plunking batters. Players today are way too sensitive about the situation, and any inside pitch is liable to start a huge brawl or controversy.

posted by dyams at 07:57 AM on June 15

If that was Ozzie's way of sparking his team, he did a bad job. Piss-poor managing if you use a rookie who will not be missed by the team if he gets suspended for a retaliation pitch. I feel bad for Tracey. What a way to boost your confidence by calling you up just to plunk somebody and not for your pitching.

posted by wingnut4life at 08:10 AM on June 15

Even if Guillen didn't make the kid cry, I'd still feel bad for Tracey. The kid only got to pitch about four total innings and there's still a few days left before Politte comes off the DL. Then again, Tracey had to have known he wasn't going to stay in the bullpen long, so he should have earned some points and plunked Blalock. The fact that he couldn't nail him...well, if his location was that bad, maybe he wasn't ready to play with the big boys.

posted by forrestv at 08:30 AM on June 15

I'm sick of AL pitchers throwing at batters intentionally anyways. Clearly, as a Yankee fan, you are very angry at Randy Johnson this morning.

posted by jerseygirl at 08:35 AM on June 15

I believe that kid did not deserve the berating he received for Ozzy in the dugout. But as with any job in the world, he was asked to do something from his boss - albeit may be frowned upon by most, it is part of baseball and has been for 100 years - and he still did not accomplish the mission. What I do not understand is how any pitcher who has made it to the show, and cannot plunk a 6 foot tall man standing 60 feet away. If you make it to the majors, you should have very good control. He deserved to get his ass chewed out, just not in the dugout on live TV.

posted by GoHorns at 09:05 AM on June 15

I'm no Sox fan, but Guillen's shit is getting a little tiresome. There's old school and then there's bullying. How could you respect that as a player? A public beatdown - where's the professionalism? However, as long as the Sox keep winning, I fail to see how anyone can touch Ozzie. I think Kenny Williams is the real MVP of that team and Ozzie is starting to get a little too side-show.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 09:25 AM on June 15

The American League where a pitcher can be warned for coming up and in on a batter. Just like in Little League!!!!!! Long live the National League .the inside fastball and the brush back

posted by tommygator at 09:25 AM on June 15

Wow...man, I have a feeling that if the Sox can't make it to the playoffs, Ozzie gets axed. (They currently lead the Wild Card, but that spot has been going to Boston for like the past 5-6 years anyways). Man, that's gonna kill that kid's confidence...I tell you, he did a fine job of getting Blaylock out (that's a good Major League hitter right there) and he gets sent down. Guillien is too emotional...get your head into the game man. I hope I don't sound too preachy.

posted by chemwizBsquared at 09:28 AM on June 15

Let me get on that band wagon. I think Ozzie acted like an idiot. You don't go off on any major leaguer like that in a public setting. The kid's ego is probably a little low anyways, being a rookie and all. If Guillen had to make his point so badly, he should have called the kid in the clubhouse or tunnel to bitch at him.

posted by Desert Dog at 09:40 AM on June 15

Hey people this ani't Little league here. If Tracey, cant take a n ass rippin from his coach maybe he should stay down for a while longer. These are multi-million dollar franchises, they are paying you for PERFORMANCE, not your ego. Anybody seen what some of these guy's make lately?Someone needs to put a boot in their ass on a daily basis, because most of these guy's are'nt mature enough to dicipline themselves. Second place is only the first place LOSER!

posted by volfire at 10:02 AM on June 15

I pity your children. I also imagine you were beat up a lot by your dad.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 10:05 AM on June 15

Heck, I just yanked a pitcher from a game cause he would not check the runner at second base as I requested of him (runner went on to steal 3rd). He is teaching the kid discipline, and if what he wants is for him to hit a batter, then he has to do it! Now, to speculate on the reasons is of no sense, since you have to be there and actually know what went on to have a factual opinion and not a subjective one! Find out the real why? Then, you can criticize all you want.

posted by zippinglou at 10:15 AM on June 15

Here's a good entry from the SouthSideSox blog about the game. And from the MLB reporter:

"Guillen offered up an interesting explanation of the situation after his team's first loss in this four-game series, pointing out that Tracey is one of the organization's prospects and was not intended to be used in mop-up situations. But a source close to the situation confirmed Tracey had been reassigned to Triple-A Charlotte after the game, backed up by his nearly empty locker. Tracey declined comment, but a second source said apparently he was sent in to do a particular job. It's the sort of responsibility managers can't really talk about without hearing from the league office."
That isn't the first time Ozzie has dealt with Tracey. I'm willing to bet this doesn't affect the kid's career at all. Players get dressed down by managers all the time. This wasn't Jackson vs Martin.

posted by ?! at 10:15 AM on June 15

If someone pays me the kind of money, Jeter,A-rod ,Clemens, Johnson, Konerko, or any other baseball player makes then I'll DO as I'm TOLD, by my boss. If I don't want to do that I'll start looking for a new job. This is there job after all. If your boss tells you to do something and you don't, does he not have the right to fire you? This is the problem with professional sports players, they expect to much and give to little. They forgot what it's like to have to EARN a spot on a team, or EARN someones respect. 20$ buys a shitty seat in any stadium, I pay them they don't pay me.

posted by volfire at 10:16 AM on June 15

If a team hits one of my MVPs, not once but twice, you need to protect! That's baseball, and that's the lesson Guillen taught the young kid. I's not old school baseball mentality, it's just baseball mentality.

posted by zippinglou at 10:22 AM on June 15

Oh, well, that changes everything. I didn't realize this first-time-up-to-the show prospect was already making A-Rod money. Thanks for that info, volfire.

posted by chicobangs at 10:28 AM on June 15

Sure, go ahead and drill the guy in the head and ruin his career because some asshole coach told you to. Beanballs should be dealt with accordingly, suspensions and fines. Large ones. When you are dealing with a persons livelyhood, it should be taken seriously. Yeah, yeah, I know the percentages of peoples career being ended by a beanball are extremely low, but the possibility increases when that person is intentionally being thrown at.

posted by Desert Dog at 10:28 AM on June 15

No and he never will if he does'nt do what he's told to. Whether it was the right call or not he still didn't do what they are paying him for, period. Whether to throw at someone for payback, or if telling someone to hit the batter, is an entirely different subject. If you can't do what youcan, that's the way life goes, cry on your way home.

posted by volfire at 10:41 AM on June 15

Desert Dog makes a good point. If a pitcher is intentionally throwing at somebody it makes for a very dangerous situation. Those situations can lead to injurys and the end of careers. Players who refuse to listen to their coach and don't throw a beanball should be applauded. EARNING respect is not throwing at players, as respect is not other players strongly disliking you.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 10:43 AM on June 15

I pity your children. I also imagine you were beat up a lot by your dad. What the fuck does that mean?

posted by wfrazerjr at 10:44 AM on June 15

I don't mind the protection of your players, and I can see why Ozzie wanted Tracey to hit Blalock. But after he couldn't hit him, my first reaction was to laugh. He tried twice to hit him, and on the third pitch he threw it inside again and Blalock grounded out. I kind of expected Ozzie to laugh about it. Apparently, he wasn't in a joking mood.

posted by sublime4390116 at 10:45 AM on June 15

Unfortunately a player who does'nt listen to their coach, and coaches who can't get their players to do as their told, find themselveles on the un-employment line. I don't think anyones clapping for them there!

posted by volfire at 10:50 AM on June 15

Heck, I just yanked a pitcher from a game cause he would not check the runner at second base as I requested of him (runner went on to steal 3rd). well, you probably did the right thing... but did you follow it up with a berating/send down for it? i also agree w/ dyams that throwing at batters in the AL is pretty weak, when you never have to face the music for it yourself.

posted by ninjavshippo at 10:53 AM on June 15

I just don't think a pitcher should try to intentionally hit a batter because his coach told him to do so. I don't have a problem with throwing up and in to get a guy off the plate. People get hit by pitches all the time. It's part of baseball. But trying to drill someone on purpose is chicken shit. I guess I'll just stay on the porch. WOOF! (in my best chihuahua impersonation).

posted by Desert Dog at 10:57 AM on June 15

Unfortunately a player who does'nt listen to their coach, and coaches who can't get their players to do as their told, find themselveles on the un-employment line. I don't think anyones clapping for them there! posted by volfire at 10:50 AM CDT on June 15 Thank god you commented it again, I didn't get your point the first 82 times you made it... over and over... and over... and over.

posted by jerseygirl at 11:01 AM on June 15

What the fuck does that mean? Just a knee-jerk reaction to the bullshit posteuring about second place being first loser and how we should all do the stupid things that we're told to do and ignore the completely unacceptable behaviour of a public dressing down, because Tracey got the player out but didn't hit him like his manager told him to. I find that kind of fall in line thinking to be basically straight outta the school of people who find free thinking to be dangerous. Whatever, delete it. This really isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Hell, some people find that kind of assholism (Ozzie's, not mine) to be 'refreshing'. I also fail to see how this becomes acceptable now that we know that Tracey is a bonus baby. He's now not worthy of his dignity? He sold that?

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 11:06 AM on June 15

I'm not advocating hitting someone with a 100 MPH fastball in the head, you can hit a batter and not hurt him. Have we not seen someone with a strong arm intentionally try and hurt someone? My kids in Little league get hit all the time , by a kid throwing his hardest. It is an accident. I agree that another player should not try and take somebody else out, I'M not advocating that. But doing what your'e told to is rudamentary sports, right or wrong. And I also did'nt make the rules for the Americam and National League. Stop using me as a poster child for my opinion. Discipline is the basis of all stports. If you don't have that how do you know if your player will NOT hit the batter when you tell him to do so?

posted by volfire at 11:07 AM on June 15

I'd like to hear comments from one of the players in the dugout like Thome. Not Pierzinsky as I already know his. But somebody who is a stand up ball player

posted by timdawg at 11:19 AM on June 15

Why is A.J. not a stand up ball player?

posted by volfire at 11:25 AM on June 15

But doing what your'e told to is rudamentary sports, right or wrong. Firends, let me tell you about another grioup of hate mongers who were just following orders...They were called nazis and they almost wiped an entire race of people of the face of the planet.

posted by HATER 187 at 11:25 AM on June 15

I agree with dyams, let the pitchers hit. GET RID OF THE DH, DAMMIT !!

posted by wdminott at 11:31 AM on June 15

And . . . scene.

posted by Skot at 11:31 AM on June 15

Firends, let me tell you about another grioup of hate mongers who were just following orders...They were called nazis and they almost wiped an entire race of people of the face of the planet. Great. Now my laptop is going to smell like coffee forever.

posted by jerseygirl at 11:35 AM on June 15

Whoa, Hater's throwing in nazi references. That's either completely ridiculous or that's some deep shit. Far out, man.

posted by Desert Dog at 11:35 AM on June 15

SPORTS dude S P O R T S. The Nazi's never killed anyone with a Football, Baseball , Basketball, Vollyball, birdie, tenniss ball, Bocce ball, bowling ball, etc.etc.

posted by volfire at 11:36 AM on June 15

I Forgot Soccerball.

posted by volfire at 11:38 AM on June 15

Why is A.J. not a stand up ball player? Because when he got hit in the balls and was crouched over at home plate, the team trainer came over to ask him if he was okay (which is what he is supposed to do). A.J. responded by hitting HIM in the nuts. Pierzynski has been a dickhead for a long time. Just read all the comments from the Twins and Giants players after those teams got rid of him.

posted by grum@work at 11:47 AM on June 15

Nazis killed my uncle with a curling stone.

posted by ?! at 11:48 AM on June 15

Volfire read Grum's remark. Also I got my wish for wanting to hear one of the players talk. Podsednick just did a spot on ESPN 1000 here in chicago and had a "no comment" and "I'm not at liberty to say." That humors me

posted by timdawg at 11:51 AM on June 15

SPORTS dude S P O R T S. The Nazi's never killed anyone with a Football, Baseball , Basketball, Vollyball, birdie, tenniss ball, Bocce ball, bowling ball, etc.etc. I give up, try and bring a little levity to a quickly decling thread and this is the thanks I get. Oh well, at least I got a laugh out of JG.

posted by HATER 187 at 11:53 AM on June 15

Any enemy of Dr. Jones is no friend of mine. If it helps, I was right there with you H187.

posted by ninjavshippo at 11:55 AM on June 15

So when A.J hit the wrestler with home plate that was fake too? God, I hate TV! Sorry abouyt forgeting the curling stone.

posted by volfire at 12:02 PM on June 15

I just refuse to believe there are people out there who haven't seen K. Smith's masterpiece.

posted by HATER 187 at 12:02 PM on June 15

All the people saying he doesn't have to do what his boss tells must of never had a boss them selves. If you do a half assed job of what you were told to do, you deserve to get told about it. If your a parent and tell you kid to take the trash out to the curb, and they leave it in the front yard are you just going to say its ok and go do it yourself?

posted by StlFan at 12:02 PM on June 15

Of course, you have to do what your boss tells you to do unless they tell you to do something wrong. Then you don't do it. Call it naive or whatever, but that's what being principled is about. I think that taking the position that Tracey should have done what Guillen told him is full of problems. The fact that Guillen knows better than to say that is why Tracey got berated and that the players do not wish to comment should tell you what Guillen did was wrong.

posted by bperk at 12:09 PM on June 15

Bingo bperk

posted by timdawg at 12:12 PM on June 15

Clearly, as a Yankee fan, you are very angry at Randy Johnson this morning. I wouldn't say angry, but I do think it was a stupid thing to do. It gets back to what I said about today's players being too sensitive and overreacting. Johnson was throwing a great game, something he hasn't done too frequently as of late, and he goes and does this. It overshadowed a really good performance.

posted by dyams at 12:27 PM on June 15

Can someone tell me why, after Ozzie replaced Tracey with Montero, he did not have Montero plunk one of the Rangers? I don't even mean immediately since the next few batters after Blalock are not considered the "stars" of the team. After all, Texas scored twice more in the next inning. And, Matthews had hit a homerun also and I think came up to bat again later in the game. I think, if I was a manager looking to send a message that my team was going to retaliate by hitting a batter, I would just keep bringing in the bullpen pitchers until one of them did get the job done. I think Ozzie was more concerned about himself than Tracey. Let Tracey get suspended for several games, while Ozzie only gets tossed. But after his tirade, Ozzie could not order someone else to finish the job without putting himself at risk. ChickenshXX!

posted by graymatters at 12:31 PM on June 15

Hitting a batter is just part of baseball has been for 100 years. You hit my batter I hit yours thats the way it goes. ANY major league player understands that. I don't mean hitting someone in the head or trying to hurt them, that's different from just plunking someone with a pitch. it's part of the game and the kid should have done it if he was told to. The only issue I have is that the ass chewing should have been done behind closed doors. I don't chew out my employees in front of other employees and Ozzie shouldn't either.

posted by T.C. at 12:45 PM on June 15

Current HBP totals by team, to date this year: 1. Washington Nationals 36 1. Florida Marlins 36 3. St. Louis Cardinals 32 3. Tampa Bay Devil Rays 32 5. Pittsburgh Pirates 31 5. Philadelphia Phillies 31 7. Oakland Athletics 30 7. Seattle Mariners 30 9. New York Mets 28 10. Boston Red Sox 27 10. Cincinnati Reds 27 10. Detroit Tigers 27 10. Atlanta Braves 27 14. Los Angeles Angels 26 15. Colorado Rockies 25 15. Texas Rangers 25 17. Arizona Diamondbacks 24 17. Cleveland Indians 24 17. Toronto Blue Jays 24 17. Chicago White Sox 24 17. Milwaukee Brewers 24 22. Chicago Cubs 22 22. San Diego Padres 22 24. Houston Astros 21 25. Kansas City Royals 20 25. Los Angeles Dodgers 20 25. San Francisco Giants 20 28. Baltimore Orioles 19 28. Minnesota Twins 19 28. New York Yankees 19 Top three and six of the top 10 are NL teams. I'd say the prospect of getting in the batter's box isn't dissuading too many of those guys from sticking one in the ear from time to time. Also, it doesn't look to me like Guillen is a hardcore head hunter (#20). Maybe Guillen sees closer stuff in Tracey, but not closer toughness and this is his way of doing a gut check on him. May not be the best way, but if somebody had done it to Tom Gordon early on, maybe Gordon wouldn't spend the playoffs throwing up in the bullpen. Courage is a big part of being a winning player, especially for a pitcher.

posted by BullpenPro at 12:53 PM on June 15

OK I'll give it up as a Sox fan, But do you guy's watch baseball across the board? This is'nt the first team to do this. And I thought Montero sucked. he could'nt hit anything as far as I'm concerned. But we are the World champions trying to protect the TITLE. The Yanks, or BoSox or anyone else thru the ages never tried to defend their title? WTF? If your some guy called up to play in the big game for the WORLD CHAMPS, do'nt you think you would do what the coach told you to, right or wrong????? This has NOTHING to do with ethics, it's about the MONEY! Losers don't make money, period. Look at what the Dodgers, and the Padre's have done with their organizations. How about the Royal's? Who did they lose because of poor performance? Why is it OK for a coach to get fired for poor peformance(Team wise) But he can't yell at the players for the same thing? I don't get it

posted by volfire at 12:54 PM on June 15

Excelent post BULLPEN! I should have thought of it earlier!Especially with the top 6 of the top 10 being NATIONAL LEAGUE! Paybacks are a bitch ,lose the DH!

posted by volfire at 01:00 PM on June 15

You want to take one of the few unfounded shots at the dodgers? Then you're going to rankle my panties. Losers don't make money, period. The dodger reams of recent years have been awful (except for this year). Nevertheless, they still outdrew a lot better teams and made a lot more money. i don't really understand your point, if there is one. is it that if you have the balls to retaliate by dotting the other team's best player, you'll win more games?

posted by ninjavshippo at 01:07 PM on June 15

great post bullpen

posted by T.C. at 01:07 PM on June 15

OK I can't resist "There's no crying in Baseball!!!"

posted by T.C. at 01:09 PM on June 15

But we are the World champions trying to protect the TITLE.... This has NOTHING to do with ethics, it's about the MONEY! Good god, way to overdramatize it. I get coffee in the morning, but I don't proclaim myself a liberator of oppressed coffee beans by doing so. and the other thing, earlier for you it was about ethics. The ethics of not doing what you were told by your boss. I know this because you said it a million times. Now, suddenly, its not about ethics and its about money. also, good post, BPP.

posted by jerseygirl at 01:16 PM on June 15

Sorry, the numbers I quoted were wrong. Should read "8 of the top 12 are NL teams." And the White Sox are #17th -- a little below middle of the pack -- even if they are the 20th team listed. It's the ties that screwed me up. There are no ties in baseball. And, volfire, I think you may have missed my point. The DH is clearly not fostering more confidence in AL pitchers who don't have to face retribution in the batter's box. If you use these numbers as a reasonable sample (which you can't, really -- it's not even half a season) then you could argue that the DH does more to discourage hit batters than encourage them.

posted by BullpenPro at 01:16 PM on June 15

If you do a half assed job of what you were told to do, you deserve to get told about it. If your a parent and tell you kid to take the trash out to the curb, and they leave it in the front yard are you just going to say its ok and go do it yourself? Way to total apply this to a situation which is completely not applicable. And if you need to be shown why then it just ain't worth the typing.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:21 PM on June 15

You said it yourself the Dodger teams of recent years have been awful, tied for first is'n't really that bad . I know ALOT of Cub fans who could only wish for the same. Some teams like the Cubs thrive on losing, and make alot of money doing it. Take a team that has been to the series and losses their season and I bet they clean house. That was my point. The Sox are World Champs and are defending their title, If you can't step up and get the job done, they do'nt have room on the roster for you. The kid got his break and yes he didOK, but he did'nt do what he was told to do by his coach. How many other big name players and paychecks have we seen get told to go scratch, because they can't follow instructions?Call it what you want the old word was discipline. No one is going to pay you millions of dollars a year to do what the hell you feel like at the time. It doesn't work that way. This is also why we did so poorly in the WBC. Our guy's just don'y have the discipline, and make to much money. The word hungry comes to mind, not in league with the MLB, mind you.

posted by volfire at 01:22 PM on June 15

Hey Jersey try using more coffee beans next time. It might give you a little more energy. And it has alway's been about ethics, unfortunatly I don't own a baseball team.

posted by volfire at 01:32 PM on June 15

My kids in Little league get hit all the time , by a kid throwing his hardest. It is an accident. Volfire, this isnt little leaugue. Its professional baseball, not little league. And, if Ozzie didn't send him out to intentionally hit him- then why did he get so pissed? He got the batter out, and he was fuming anyways. Little league dosent have anything to do with the MLB- these are pros. *And another thing- learn how to use apostrophes*

posted by redsoxrgay at 01:34 PM on June 15

Hey Jersey try using more coffee beans next time. It might give you a little more energy. And it has alway's been about ethics, unfortunatly I don't own a baseball team. posted by volfire at 1:32 PM CDT on June 15 I don't even know what this means.

posted by jerseygirl at 01:40 PM on June 15

OK I GIVE UP.

posted by volfire at 01:41 PM on June 15

YAY!

posted by jerseygirl at 01:41 PM on June 15

The Nazi's never killed anyone with a Football, Baseball , Basketball, Vollyball, birdie, tenniss ball, Bocce ball, bowling ball, etc.etc. Because they had guns and bombs and ovens. Regardless of what Hogan's Heroes says, I think they would be willing to use any tool available to do their work. Except for teapot radios.

posted by yerfatma at 02:05 PM on June 15

GO WHITE SOX!

posted by volfire at 02:42 PM on June 15

GO COL. KLINK!

posted by HATER 187 at 02:46 PM on June 15

GO COL. KLINK'S SECRETARY!

posted by ptluigi at 02:54 PM on June 15

do'nt you think you would do what the coach told you to, right or wrong? Mein Fuhrer, I vas only following orders!

posted by irunfromclones at 03:01 PM on June 15

GO COL. KLINK'S SECRETARY! Define your terms: which Helga do you mean, #1 or #2?

posted by yerfatma at 03:07 PM on June 15

The Nazi's never killed anyone with a Football, Baseball , Basketball, Vollyball, birdie, tenniss ball, Bocce ball, bowling ball, etc.etc. Somebody help me here. What was the incident where a batter cracked a catcher over the head with his bat. I know it happened in an MLB game, and the batter got a amazingly small penalty for it, but I can't find it.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 03:14 PM on June 15

I'll plunk you and your momma for half of what they get paid.

posted by irishmic2004@sbcglobal.net at 03:18 PM on June 15

Ying Yang. I believe you're looking for Juan Marichal. He was batting for the Giants, got into an argument with John Roseboro of the Dodgers, and split his head open with the bat. $1750 fine and eight games suspension. Koufax was on the mound, Marichal later claimed that Roseboro had hit him in the ear with a return toss to the mound, and that was what had instigated the brawl.

posted by tommytrump at 03:43 PM on June 15

Nazis killed my uncle with a curling stone. Shouldn't he have been wearing a helmet?

posted by tommytrump at 03:45 PM on June 15

I believe this player makes the law here: http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/godwity01.shtml

posted by ajaffe at 04:23 PM on June 15

I'll plunk you and your momma for half of what they get paid. best. comment. ever.

posted by ninjavshippo at 04:24 PM on June 15

jersey wins!!

posted by lilnemo at 05:04 PM on June 15

tommytrump: In the 40s, professional curlers were real men who didn't wear sissy helmets. It didn't matter as it was one of the SS exploding stones.

posted by ?! at 05:07 PM on June 15

I've never been able to understand why baseball hasn't done more to stomp this practice out. It's dangerous which is why intentionally throwing at someone is against the rules and can get your ass tossed...but it's still considered an "accepted practice". As a football coach, if an opposing player is constantly using flagrant face masks to tackle my guys or spearing at every opportunity, I'm going to "make my point" to every official in earshot, if you know what I mean. If they still refuse to do anything about it, you can bet I'll get it on film and the league will deal with the officials and the idiot coaching the other team. What I WON'T do is tell my players to respond in kind. The problem is that the powers that be in baseball don't mete out stiff enough punishment to discourage bean balls. There are ways to fix this, but apparently not enough people get hurt to make it worthwhile.

posted by ctal1999 at 05:10 PM on June 15

If the top 6 of the top 10 are National League teams, doesn't that mean that the pitcher batting doesn't prevent being thrown at?

posted by INOALOSER at 05:38 PM on June 15

INOALOSER- The whole point of the stats was to show that pitchers get hit because they throw at batters. So... the NL would have more Hit Battsmen then the AL- no?

posted by redsoxrgay at 06:18 PM on June 15

Ozzie Guillen is an ass. What he was asking was wrong, which is why he's too cowardly to own up to it. If it were okay he'd admit what he was trying to do. Sounds like Tracey wasn't comfortable being a punk hit man for that guy, not that he couldn't get it done. Maybe Tracey just couldn't deal with deliberately throwing at and perhaps hurting somebody. If so, then kudos to him for having a conscience.

posted by Dominica at 06:26 PM on June 15

sox, the point was that the NL should have fewer hb's because in the NL, the pitchers would hesitate to throw at someone because they'd know they would get zipped themselves in their next ab.

posted by ctal1999 at 06:30 PM on June 15

BullPenPro: Did anyone who kept those stats try to break them down to 90MPH "It got away from me" accidental HB and 75MPH "I threw it at his ass" intentional HB? Better yet: How many pitchers were HBP? and How many games were there more than one HBP?

posted by ?! at 06:35 PM on June 15

The batter's box has to be altered.They're allowed to stand too close. Many pitches aren't really that close, the batter is leaning over the plate. On the other hand, Koufax,Palmer, and many others never threw at anyone. Pedro doesn't have to bean guys, he does it cause he's just a nasty person.

posted by bob a. at 07:32 PM on June 15

GO WHITE SOX!!!!!

posted by volfire at 07:43 PM on June 15

redsoxgray, I don't know if that would be true. You would have to know how many pitchers actually were hit by pitches this season.

posted by INOALOSER at 07:55 PM on June 15

hey Volfire, you trying to get banned by acting like a newb? I mean, I'm not going to stand in your way as you're exercising your right to be Luther Campbell'd, but you've been here long enough to know better, certainly.

posted by jerseygirl at 08:06 PM on June 15

I just checked MLB stats, if I read it correctly, the most at bats by any National League pitcher so far is 38. There are a whole bunch of pitchers that have been in a number of games and as of yet have not been to the plate.

posted by INOALOSER at 08:06 PM on June 15

There are a whole bunch of pitchers that have been in a number of games and as of yet have not been to the plate. Maybe a relief pitchers but starters get their share of at bats. If a pitcher has played ten games so far and averages three at bats a game then he would have 30 total at bats. As a starting pitcher, if you bean someone there is a very good chance that the other team's pitcher can get you back for it. Edit: What do you know, comment 600. Doesn't mean a whole lot but it still makes me feel special.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 08:36 PM on June 15

I swear to God I heard "Banned in the U.S.A" just yesterday and was looking for a way to sneak it or Luther into a post. My hat's off to you, jerseygirl. Good job.

posted by forrestv at 08:39 PM on June 15

jerseygirl and volfire sittin' in a tree...SORRY. Couldn't resist. There's obviously a love connection happening there. jg puts sucka's in their PLACE!

posted by Desert Dog at 08:54 PM on June 15

I refuse to pay for a copy of the fake Star Wars just to get the original on DVD. I would, however, pay good money for a tape of George Lucas and his IP lawyer talking about suing Luther Campbell.

posted by yerfatma at 09:08 PM on June 15

I refuse to pay for a copy of the fake Star Wars just to get the original on DVD. I would, however, pay good money for a tape of George Lucas and his IP lawyer talking about suing Luther Campbell. WHAT?

posted by tommytrump at 11:27 PM on June 15

Tommytrump, quick history of rap lesson. Luther Campbell is also known as Luke, former member of 2 Live Crew. Back in the late 80's, one of his albums got banned from being sold to kids. He changed his name to Luke Skyywalker and started Luke Syywalker records. Lucas got pissed and sued for copyright infringement. The record company then became Luke Records. That's more information than you probably ever needed to know, but now that you know, I say get on out there and impress your friends!

posted by forrestv at 11:47 PM on June 15

Thanks for the useless info, forrestv, i knew who luther campbell was, but didn't know the rest of it. I guess my question was, what the hell does that comment have to do with this thread?

posted by tommytrump at 11:51 PM on June 15

Never mind, i figured it out. lol.

posted by tommytrump at 12:01 AM on June 16

GO COL. KLINK'S SECRETARY! Define your terms: which Helga do you mean, #1 or #2? posted by yerfatma at 3:07 PM CDT on June 15 #1 yer fatma, no doubt about it.:)

posted by ptluigi at 05:24 AM on June 16

What I do not understand is how any pitcher who has made it to the show, and cannot plunk a 6 foot tall man standing 60 feet away. If you make it to the majors, you should have very good control. Tell that to the Texas Rangers for their entire 35-year history. The take on Tracey is that he's a hard-thrower who likes to throw inside even though he has control problems. He hit 14 batters in the minors last year. I'm guessing he would've gladly hit Blalock, but he couldn't do it that night.

posted by rcade at 06:44 AM on June 16

Is it possible to put a filter on this blog so that I only have to read vol's same take once? I'll keep jersey she's amusing

posted by lionsfanandithurts at 10:05 AM on June 16

I did not pay lionsfan to say that.

posted by jerseygirl at 10:28 AM on June 16

GO WHITE SO.......oh, never mind. I liked BullpenPro's stats on hit batsmen, but everyone needs to remember (as I'm sure most do) that not all batters hit by a pitch are intentional. Some teams are using young, inexperienced pitchers in their rotation who are overmatched and still struggling with control. Plus, of the New York Mets' total, roughly half seem to have been thrown at Jose Guillen (what's it with throwing at batters and people name Guillen anyways?).

posted by dyams at 12:14 PM on June 16

But he's right jersey. You rock!

posted by ctal1999 at 12:27 PM on June 16

Jerseygirl I herby proclaim you Queen of the kingdom of five digit numbers. May your biting humor and rocking personality serve as a guiding hand of leadership for those still learning to write in cohearent sentances and linking to sportfilter.com.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 06:41 AM on June 17

This is'nt the first team to do this. No they are the first team whose manager openly reprimanded the pitcher for not doing it. But we are the World champions trying to protect the TITLE. The Yanks, or BoSox or anyone else thru the ages never tried to defend their title? Hitting blaylock right then was not going to make the difference in the season. If it would have, the kid actually helped out, and got an out, instead of putting him on base. All the people saying he doesn't have to do what his boss tells must of never had a boss them selves. If you do a half assed job of what you were told to do, you deserve to get told about it. If your a parent and tell you kid to take the trash out to the curb, and they leave it in the front yard are you just going to say its ok and go do it yourself? posted by StlFan at 12:02 PM CDT on June 15 Great idea until your boss tells you to go across the street and sucker punch the competition's top salesman right in the nose.

posted by jojomfd1 at 11:03 PM on June 19

oh yeah, and go jersey girl!!!

posted by jojomfd1 at 11:04 PM on June 19

Great idea until your boss tells you to go across the street and sucker punch the competition's top salesman right in the nose. You say that like it's a bad thing...

posted by The_Black_Hand at 05:22 AM on June 20

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