FanDuel - WFBC

December 11, 2005

Red Sox contact Clemens about 2006 season: I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.

posted by wfrazerjr to baseball at 09:15 PM - 77 comments

I really hope the Red Sox sign him. We're going to be bombarded with Yankees/Red Sox regardless. It's going to be hilarious seeing how Red Sox fans justify his existence. I wonder how many people will disavow their allegiance to the Sox because of the signing? I'm particularly excited to see how Bill Simmons responds. God, so much good will come from this signing.

posted by panoptican at 09:26 PM on December 11

It's going to be hilarious seeing how Red Sox fans justify his existence. I wonder how many people will disavow their allegiance to the Sox because of the signing? Justify his existence? Why? I can't control who they sign. How 'bout this. I'll continue to root for the red sox while continuing to dislike roger clemens. Am I suppose to root against the sox because they sign him?

posted by justgary at 10:00 PM on December 11

I hate the red sox, but the time is right for "The Rocket" to return to Boston. Look forward to watching it.

posted by ELWAY_FAN at 10:04 PM on December 11

It'd be nice to see Clemens in a RedSox uniform again, but keep in mind, didn't he keep playing in Houston only so he could be closer to his family? See his CHILDREN as they were growing up? I think this is the end of the road for Roger, HOF induction in 5 years as a first ballot and "One of the Best to Ever Play the Game!"

posted by valaric at 10:05 PM on December 11

Reply to panoptican.....You said it dude! The Sox signing Grandpa Clemens will make a much more interestingly hilarious topic to watch than him bowing out, er gracefully??? and retiring, huh. Peace

posted by chrisly13 at 10:05 PM on December 11

According to the Globe, some close to Clemens think that if he wants to pitch again, he'll return to Houston on May 1, so he can monitor the progress of his son, Koby Clemens, a catcher in the organization. OK I personally think he should leave his son alone to his own career and retire. You know you are an old baseball player when your son plays for the same organization. Hang it up and give it to the next generation.

posted by skydivemom at 10:12 PM on December 11

Right on, he was totally faultering last season with that outrageous ERA and should just end it and retire before he makes a mockery out of his once glorious career and pitching stats. /sarcasm Whatever he decides to do, it seems pretty clear he's still got it and if he wants to pitch again, wherever, he'll still be one of the best. I'm astonished by newbie stupidity.

posted by jerseygirl at 10:12 PM on December 11

OK I personally think he should leave his son alone to his own career and retire. You know you are an old baseball player when your son plays for the same organization. Hang it up and give it to the next generation. Are you going to stop working once your kids get their first job? Better yet, are you going to let age dictate what you can and cannot do, if you are still good at your job, able bodied, willing to work, love what you do and are taking home a good bank? ...then why does the opposite of that apply to Clemens?

posted by jerseygirl at 10:16 PM on December 11

If he wants to stay playing because he just wants to keep an eye on his son then yes I think he should leave his son alone and retire. I am not going to stay in a job I want to retire from just to hold my kids hand. There comes a point where you have to let them go and stop holding their hands. If he just wants to keep playing then it shouldn't matter where he plays as long as somebody wants him. All the things I have read about him lately seem to lean toward how he plays in the World Baseball Championship is what is going to determine whether he will retire or not. Also he seems to be glad that he doesn't have to play for an entire season with the Astros by not being able to sign with them till May 1. This just doesn't sound like a guy who is confident he can still do it, so yes I think he should retire.

posted by skydivemom at 10:33 PM on December 11

i saw this coming you can even check it when i posted it on december 7th it sounded like he was happy for being offered the job but who know wat will happen next

posted by barry from h-town at 10:35 PM on December 11

i hate the redsock and i think that roger clemens should go to a team that is not one of the powerhouses like the yankees or the redsocks. that is why i was happy when he joined the Astros because they were not a power house team. I hope he joins a team that wont buy him out or he should just retire. Maybe he should join the giants?

posted by NickNoodle at 10:35 PM on December 11

if you are still good at your job, able bodied The 'abled bodied' part is in question at this point. Another year, who knows.

posted by justgary at 11:20 PM on December 11

"Are you going to stop working once your kids get their first job?" do you stay at the job you are at so that you can monitor your child coming up through the organization?

posted by 15yroldkid at 11:38 PM on December 11

He was there before his kid was in the organization. He made a point to be there before, because it was convenient. It's one thing if he's tailing Koby/Kody/whomever around from team to team. It's another if he wants to stay in Houston because it's comfortable, convenient, etc.

posted by jerseygirl at 12:05 AM on December 12

I think Roger has earned the right to pitch wherever he wants. He had another amazing year last year, and who knows, maybe another cy young again this year in a Red Sox uniform. I am sure that he will probably be enshrined in a Yankees hat, but I still respect the Rocket and what he did for the Red Sox when he played here. If it wasn't for Dan Douquet, who knows, maybe he would have been enshrined as a Red Sox.

posted by grabofsky74 at 12:17 AM on December 12

I could have sworn this guy retired a few years ago. Maybe I'm thinking of someone else.

posted by dyams at 07:14 AM on December 12

I could have sworn this guy retired a few years ago. Maybe I'm thinking of someone else. Wait... and someone commented about Red Sox fans changing their tune on Clemens?

posted by jerseygirl at 07:18 AM on December 12

I really hope the Red Sox sign him. ... It's going to be hilarious seeing how Red Sox fans justify his existence. I think it would be hysterical seeing Sox fans suddnely embrace him once again after going in their minds from "hero" (as a Sox) to "washed-up nobody" (Blue Jays) to "uber-villain" (in pinstripes) to a "non-factor" (as a ~gasp~ National Leaguer) and now he goes back to "hero" ?! Too funny. Truthfully, I really don't see Roger leaving Texas, but hey, stranger things have happened...

posted by MAYANKEE at 07:28 AM on December 12

keep in mind, didn't he keep playing in Houston only so he could be closer to his family? See his CHILDREN as they were growing up? So...he's seen them. Time to move on.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:28 AM on December 12

"do you stay at the job you are at so that you can monitor your child coming up through the organization?" Unless you've got a job with spectators that comment makes no sense.

posted by arrmatey at 08:24 AM on December 12

I'll wait till the Rocket actually signs some place. It will be neat to see him pitch again, esepcially if he maintains the quality. Until then, it will be a media circus. Every burp coming from Roger will be reported. Wake me up in March!

posted by daddisamm at 08:47 AM on December 12

BIG F------G WHOOP!!!!!!!!

posted by FrankySP at 09:08 AM on December 12

Really? A Red Sox? Well I guess stranger things have happened. And anyone who thinks that every warm Red Sox fan on the planet won't cheer their guts out for this is crazy. Who wouldn't want the Rocket? My money is on him pitching for Houston or New York, though. I think he's quite pleased that the Red Sox are inquiring, but has little intention of ever going back to the team that called him washed up ten years ago.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 09:36 AM on December 12

Blue Jays should get on the phone and talk to Roger. He left the team on very good terms -- namely, the handshake deal with former Pres. Paul Beeston. He pitched amazing his two seasons in Toronto -- Cy Young's both years, and led the AL in pitchers Triple Crown stats (wins, strikeouts, e.r.a.) both years. The Jays allowed him to leave to win World Series, which he did. Now that the Jays are rebuilding and willing to spend, he'd make a great ace behind Doc Halladay.

posted by the red terror at 11:16 AM on December 12

As nice as a Halladay-Clemens-Burnett punch sounds, I can't see it happening. Jays pitching is already good enough for them to not need bother with the sort of price tag that Clemens would command. Also, the people with whom Clemens was on good terms in '97 are all gone. New owner, new president, and a new GM who may not see Roger as his kind of guy: Ricciardi has built this team with an eye for "empty stadium'' players -- guys who would show up for a game if there were nobody in the stands, no cameras and no money on the line, and play hard to win. The club's two best players, pitcher Roy Halladay and centerfielder Vernon Wells, set a quiet, hard-working tone. There are no oversized egos, no entourages, no cliques. (Tom Verducci)

posted by DrJohnEvans at 11:26 AM on December 12

Whatever he decides to do, it seems pretty clear he's still got it and if he wants to pitch again, wherever, he'll still be one of the best. I'm not so certain of that. One of these years, if he keeps coming back, time is going to kick his ass. It would be interesting to see how the Rocket handled a Willie Mays-like final season. He's great when he's great, but when he loses his stuff due to injury or some other reason, he doesn't strike me as much of a "keep me in coach" type.

posted by rcade at 11:36 AM on December 12

The Jays? Don't have $20 million and a better than average shot at the postseason. Not a chance.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 11:41 AM on December 12

One of these years, if he keeps coming back, time is going to kick his ass. Well, yeah, eventually everyone will be right and he'll be too old. How long have they been saying it, though? Getting it right eventually really isn't all that impressive. He lead the league in ERA last year; giving him a shot really makes sense, doesn't it? Not 18 mil sense, mind you, but some sense.

posted by dfleming at 12:23 PM on December 12

I think it would be hysterical seeing Sox fans suddnely embrace him once again after going in their minds from "hero" (as a Sox) to "washed-up nobody" (Blue Jays) to "uber-villain" (in pinstripes) to a "non-factor" (as a ~gasp~ National Leaguer) and now he goes back to "hero" ?! Too funny. Because if he goes back to the yankees, you'd boo him out of the park, right? And anyone who thinks that every warm Red Sox fan on the planet won't cheer their guts out for this is crazy. Who wouldn't want the Rocket? Oh weedy, speak for yourself. I'm praying they don't sign him. This all reminds me of the seinfeld joke about fans really rooting for a uniform. I would cringe every time he took the mound and feel dirty after every start. Not only because roger (in my opinion) is a grade A tool, but we've already got one 40ish pitcher we're depending on, and if wells comes back that makes two. Wakefield is around 40. The sox want a staff with four 40 year olds behind beckett? On what planet is this a good idea? I agree withi rcade. He's gonna break down one year. He broke down at the end of this year. I'd rather the sox go with youth. I doubt roger's gonna come back to the sox anyway. I think he's just enjoying the attention. The sox already won their first. His chance to be a god in boston is over. My bet, if he leaves, is him going back to the yankees, hoping to win another WS and going into the hall in a yankees Kap.

posted by justgary at 12:45 PM on December 12

The Red Sox have made a couple of boneheaded moves in the last couple of months. The loss of Theo Epstein is going to be much more damaging - in the long run - to the organization than the negative fan reaction that signing Clemens would no doubt engender. That being said, it would be somehow wonderfully ironic for the Sox to release Clemens as washed up a decade ago, watch him win more Cy Youngs, and then rehire him when he was truly washed up. One positive thing - A Red Sox v Yankees series with The Big Unit v The Rocket has a nice "twilight of the gods" ring to it.

posted by Joey Michaels at 12:52 PM on December 12

I'd really appreciate the Red Sox ownership letting this go on for a couple days, then calling a press conference to say, in essence: Image hosted by Photobucket.com

posted by wfrazerjr at 01:29 PM on December 12

Alright justgary - I wanna see you sitting on your hands if he signs and wins 22 games with a 2.96 ERA and takes the Sox to the promised land. No cheering - not a peep. Although, I think none of this actually becomes an issue. I don't see how you can worry too much about Wakefield - he's a knuckleballer - 40 is the prime of his career. He has five or six years left by comparison to his knuclkling peers. Clemens may just break down, this is true - but if I'm a wealthy team on the brink of (another) championship - I take that shot. He was the best pitcher in the bigs last year (maybe not the most valuable - but he was the best).

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:31 PM on December 12

I believe the Rocket will return for probably his last season. If he stays only this year in BOS, to chance of another ring. If he stays longer, maybe. However, being a member of Red Sox Nation, hooray for the Rocket.

posted by Joe88 at 02:21 PM on December 12

Because if he goes back to the yankees, you'd boo him out of the park, right? Klemens has too much arrogance to get booed out of any park no matter what the volume...but if the Yankees sign him, hell if they even offer for him, I'll throw up in my mouth.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 02:49 PM on December 12

This is incredable. Go from posting to posting and you find out: Manny can't field Damon can't throw Clemens washed out at the end of last season Jeter has no range Nomar is a has been and these are just current and ex Yanks and Bosox. Go around the majors and I think I could find a team of SpoFi criticized players that could beat the 27 Yanks - well, maybe not quite. But I'd probably have one that could win a world series.

posted by drevl at 03:22 PM on December 12

No, you'd have a baseball team built from the highest-paid players in the game, a collection of all-stars and egos that would suffocate each other, a team that couldn't get its act together and win. You'd have the 2005 Yankees plus spare parts.

posted by rocketman at 03:33 PM on December 12

Manny can't field Damon can't throw Clemens washed out at the end of last season Jeter has no range Nomar is a has been Well... Manny is a bad fielder. Damon doesn't have a good arm. Clemens was injured, but not necessarily "washed out" at the end of the playoffs. Jeter's range was bad for a long time, but he's gotten better. Nomar may be a "has-been", but we'd need to see an injury-free season to be sure. It still doesn't mean that they can't play great baseball. Manny, Damon and Jeter are still great hitters. Clemens and Nomar could easily come back into form if they aren't injured. Commenting on their negatives doesn't reflect on their positives. If I say that Babe Ruth was a terrible baserunner (sub 50% sb success rate in seasons where CS was recorded) , it doesn't mean that that I think he was a bad player overall.

posted by grum@work at 03:54 PM on December 12

That guy's flabby ass wave will give me nightmares, wfrazerjr. Please don't do that again without an advisory.

posted by rcade at 04:05 PM on December 12

I might lose my dinner because of that caucus.

posted by Joe88 at 04:11 PM on December 12

Thanks for the band name, rcade. "Ladies and gentleman, put your hands together for ... FLABBY ASS WAVE!!!"

posted by wfrazerjr at 04:26 PM on December 12

Are all of yall dumbasses. Im from Houston and know all about what the deal is about Roger Clemens. First yall think that the only reason he wants to play in Houston is so he can keep a eye on his kids. That is not the reason you out of towners. He wanted to play for Houston three years ago so him and Andy Pettitte can take there hometown team and their two close friends Jeff Bagwell and Craig Biggio to the first World Series in Astros history and possibly win it. Thats the main reason not to keep a eye on his kids. Another thing, i hate how they say he is going to the red sox or the yankees. i would be shocked if he did the only place he said he would play when he came out of retirement was Houston, for the reason i just told you about. So Boston and Yankee fans stop dreaming that the most winningist pitcher on the planet is coming back to play for your team. Because on May 1 he is going to sign again with the Houston Astros because he would have a month off from baseball and be still 100% for the World Series. Thats whats good about not offering arbitration to Clemens. HOUSTON ASTROS WORLD SERIES CHAMPS IN 2007!!!!!

posted by sportsking at 05:08 PM on December 12

That's why you're the King. Thanks for the insider info. Got any more dirt?

posted by yerfatma at 05:16 PM on December 12

Yerfatma, that was a priceless retort. I'm still smarting from this: I think it would be hysterical seeing Sox fans suddnely embrace him once again after going in their minds from "hero" (as a Sox) to "washed-up nobody" (Blue Jays) to "uber-villain" (in pinstripes) to a "non-factor" (as a ~gasp~ National Leaguer) and now he goes back to "hero" ?! Too funny. MaYankee, you're way off. When Clemens was wooed by the Blue Jays, he was fat and out of shape and had been largely ineffective for a few seasons. It was ownership that wrote him off, though, and failed to resign him. Fan reaction was decidedly ambivalent. When he immediately turned his career around in Toronto, and immediately turned his back on the Sox fans (no "Thanks for the memories"), some people were annoyed with him for not having kickstarted the comeback a few years earlier (when he was the highest paid player in the game), but doubtful that anyone considered him washed up (2 Cy Youngs). Then he forced a trade to the then-dynastic Yankees and declared his Yankee love to anyone who would listen. Yeah, people got pissed. How would you have reacted if Paulie O'Neill had done the same thing in reverse? I still remember NYY fans up in arms when we signed David Cone. When Rocket reneged on his "retirement" to go to Houston, I remember the airwaves filled with complaining Yankee fans. Most Sox fans found it funny to see NYY fans so upset, and we were happy that we could appreciate our once-favorite pitcher in a neutral context. Yeah, most Sox fans would love to have Roger back. And yeah, we weren't big fans of the Rocket when he was in pinstripes. But to suggest that Red Sox fans immediately love or hate players based on what uni they wear is simplistic and off-base. Apparently you missed the welcome that Orlando Cabrera (now a member of the rival Angels) recieved at his first game back in Boston.

posted by Venicemenace at 05:31 PM on December 12

Are all of yall dumbasses Yes we are. Flabby waving dumbasses.

posted by jerseygirl at 06:14 PM on December 12

Astros World Series Champs in 2007? What's gonna happen in 06?

posted by jenny at 06:37 PM on December 12

a collection of all-stars and egos that would suffocate each other, a team that couldn't get its act together and win. Oh, you mean the always grumbeling Jeter, that malcontent Nomar, and the pain in the ass Damon. Get your act together, rocketman. More respected teammates than these guys are hard to come by.

posted by drevl at 07:18 PM on December 12

What's gonna happen in 06? You have a good point there jenny. Im sorry i missed typed it, you understand dont you since the 7 is right next to the 6.

posted by sportsking at 07:55 PM on December 12

Yes yerfatma, i do have some more dirt regarding the astros, dont really know if your interested. There are some rumors about possibly trading Pitcher Brandon Backe and Chad Qualls to the Phillies for Bobby Abreau (hopefully i spelled his last name right). I think that would be a bad trade for us because Brandom Backe and Chad Qualls are getting better as they play and they just started to. Some more dirt is that the Astros will posibly sign former Left Fielder Reggie Sanders from the St. Louis Cardinals. Thats about it, the Astros arn't really that active lately. I still remember something about what Roger Clemens said around July about coming back for a third season, he said that if Catcher Brad Ausmus is not going to be catching for him next season he will not come back, right now Brad Ausmus is a free agent. I dont think that will be the reason if he doesnt come back. I say dont bring back Brad Ausmus, he cant hit but he is the best defensive catches. He has a better chance on getting cancer on gameday than letting a ball pass him and go in the backstop. I think defense is overated, but somebody needs to tell that to the Astros for not wanting to get bats and staying with Brad Ausmus and Adam Everett because they are excellent defensive players. Well not a lot of dirt mixing with the Astros, but have a some more texans dirt. If you dont care just stop reading this because its the rest of the comment. Just today the texans signed former Falcons head coach Dan Reeves as a guide for the francise. This shows how Charley Casserly cant do his damn job right and needs some one to tell him what would be the right decision to make. Another thing is that i am almost 100% sure that the texans will get the #1 pick and draft Reggie Bush, if you dont think so you should have seen the end of the texans v. titans game sunday, they are playing to lose so they can get Reggie Bush (its kind of bad when you see on sportscenter how they go to the race for reggie bush first before they get to the playoff teams and how they did that week). Anyways if your still reading this gives me a gut feeling since i am the SPORTSKING that USC head coach Pete Carrol will come to the NFL and coach the Houston Texans with them giving a big paycheck only because Reggie Bush will be drafted by them. Now if my gut feeling isnt right i got another option, the next head coach is... listen up... the offensive coordinater from the Denver Broncos. Sounds crazy but your also going to think so again when i say this, the Houston Texans will not fire Dom Capers, they will only demote him to Defensive Coordinator. Well thats enough dirt for today, i guess i will call it a wrap. Goodnight everyone hope you understand what i just said about all that.

posted by sportsking at 08:18 PM on December 12

Alright justgary - I wanna see you sitting on your hands if he signs and wins 22 games with a 2.96 ERA and takes the Sox to the promised land. No cheering - not a peep. There's middle ground there weedy. I would cheer each and every victory because it's a team game and i want the sox to win. I won't be cheering for clemens, and if it's my call, I won't have to worry about it. Klemens has too much arrogance to get booed out of any park no matter what the volume...but if the Yankees sign him, hell if they even offer for him, I'll throw up in my mouth. It's a rare breed indeed that can bring yankee and red sox fans together. ;)

posted by justgary at 09:50 PM on December 12

OK, so the Astros win it all in 2006. Who will win in 2007?

posted by Joe88 at 11:08 PM on December 12

Arrogance is not just for multi-million dollar players. There is enough of it posting here to give nearly any sports fan the dry-heaves. Until any of you that have the balls to criticize Roger Clemens can do better than he in even a minor league franchise, my suggestion would be to shut the f*** up and watch. Amend that to say, if you have even coached a minor league team of any sort to the level he has played at for over two decades, shut it up and watch. It astounds those of us who have played sports as a professional (albeit not at Clemens' level) the arrogance of some who have never even laced up a pair of skates or shoes within 300 yards of a pro arena or field to critique those who have.

posted by mrhockey at 11:34 PM on December 12

It astounds those of us who have played sports as a professional (albeit not at Clemens' level) the arrogance of some who have never even laced up a pair of skates or shoes within 300 yards of a pro arena or field to critique those who have. Playing a sport at a professional does not give a person exclusive rights to criticize other players' performances. I can say a certain player played "poorly", but I'm not talking about it in absolute terms, but in relative terms to the league they are in or the previous performances they have shown. You'd have to be a fool to think that a player in the major leagues is anything but one of the top 3% of competitors in their own sport. Tie Domi may be a "poor" player compared to skilled players in the league, but he'd be a superstar compared to average schmoes. But that's not the comparison that fans/critics make. It's how they have done this game/season, compared to either their league or their own previous game/season.

posted by grum@work at 12:04 AM on December 13

Jeter has no range? What a jackass!

posted by CountDracula58 at 12:18 AM on December 13

It astounds those of us who have played sports as a professional (albeit not at Clemens' level) the arrogance of some who have never even laced up a pair of skates or shoes within 300 yards of a pro arena or field to critique those who have. Are you kidding me? So you can't judge a good movie from a bad one unless you've directed one? And you can't pick out good music from bad music unless you're a professional musician? You can't judge good writing from bad unless you're a published author? While I agree that it helps if you've actually played a sport to discuss it, claiming that only those who've played professionally have a right (and ability) to critique players and teams is, well, arrogant, not to mention wrong. Not to mention that if it bothers you, you might want to check out the website you're currently on. Where exactly do you think you are?

posted by justgary at 01:02 AM on December 13

I'm on a sports discussion board. One where most do not take the time nor effort to spell-check or preview their posts to find errors or mistakes before hitting the 'post' command. I neither claimed that only pros could critique pros, nor assigned rights to anyone, I only stated the fact that those who are critiquing (yes, the spelling IS correct) a person should be sure of their facts before doing so, and a vast majority are neglect in this regard, especially in view of as many as queue here. In regard to music, facts remain facts. Eminem is tone-deaf, but still makes millions annually, but not from the likes of my pocketbook. But this doesn't take a degree to estimate, just a modicum of taste. Words do not create music, but millions of below-80 IQ people think it does, so he succeeds, yet an intelligent musician like Roger Bobo makes a fraction of his income with 293 times the talent. As far as Tie Domi goes, he was well above average in his day. If Tie could keep performing as he did at 33 today, he'd still be lacing his blades. Clemens has shown he can still perform MOST DAYS at a well-above-professional acumen, and if he has a bad day or two, nobody here should try to SINK his attempt unless they can show they themselves are a better judge of his talent than his prospective paycheck-writer.

posted by mrhockey at 01:29 AM on December 13

One where most do not take the time nor effort to spell-check or preview their posts to find errors or mistakes Are you talking about other people? I only stated the fact that those who are critiquing (yes, the spelling IS correct) a person should be sure of their facts before doing so, and a vast majority are neglect in this regard No, you clearly implied we Vast Unwashed should keep out mouths shut. Also, you used the wrong form of "neglect": this entry only shows entries for noun and verb usage. Eminem is tone-deaf Source, please. But this doesn't take a degree to estimate, just a modicum of taste. At which point you've descended into our world of opinions instead of your Towers of Light and Fact. Hi, welcome to our hovel. As far as Tie Domi goes, he was well above average in his day. Grum's comment (as I understood it) meant, "Tie Domi has never been much of an offensive force and has had to rely on his physical play to make it in the NHL, but he could obviously rack up 10 goals a game in anyone's local rec league." When was Domi "well above average" and by what measure? nobody here should try to SINK his attempt unless they can show they themselves are a better judge of his talent than his prospective paycheck-writer. Who is trying to do what now? All we're doing is talking and I've yet to hear about a comment of mine that got a player fired. Also, I'm a better judge of talent than a number of GMs I've seen in baseball in the last 20 years. Plenty of us may be. You can get all fired up about that, but why could it not be true?

posted by yerfatma at 06:24 AM on December 13

u tel him yerfamta

posted by grabofsky74 at 08:16 AM on December 13

Oh, mrhockey is just pissed because he doesn't agree with most people's assessment of Clemens. The whole 'you don't deserve to have your opinion respected because you don't play the game' arguement is a popular choice when confronted with such. Although, I do feel at times that there is an unbalanced/unfair assessment of Clemens in some regards for being a 'hired gun', or disloyal, or what have you. I mean, the Sox basically decided not to resign him, he bailed on the Jays - but really how many of you care about that, went to the Yanks for a few years and then went home. At no point did he ever demand a trade, ignore a contractual agreement or not show up for work. He was a free agent everytime - and to top it all off, he's played for four teams in twenty years - the one that drafted him, the one that offered him the most money, the biggest one in sports and the one in his hometown. That's really not that bad; certainly by comparison to some others. And really, he's done nothing buy bring the goods, too... Except for maybe (maybe) that last season in Boston (and his season was still good). Frankly, at times I think the hate shot at Clemens is unfair.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:47 AM on December 13

Now gary, I want you notice how peaceful I've been through all this Clemens-ness. Hopefully, through the last round of out-of-order comments, I've purged myself of personalizing and getting defensive for at least a year. Carry on...

posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 10:24 AM on December 13

Frankly, at times I think the hate shot at Clemens is unfair. I agree. People get down on the Rocket and for what, his little incident with Piazza? Roger has but together one of the most impressive pitching resumes ever and he still can't catch a fucking break. I was a little pissed at the way he left the yanks but if you have a chance to move home and raise your family were you want to and can still do what you love, well then by all means go for it. That being said, Roger is still a huge a gamble, especially for the kind of money he would command on the free agent market. Anything longer than a year is a bad investment. At his age he could suddenly fall off to never return again.

posted by HATER 187 at 10:41 AM on December 13

... I only stated the fact that those who are critiquing (yes, the spelling IS correct) a person should be sure of their facts before doing so ... Roger Clemens is a great pitcher, but he's also a huge dick. I'm pretty sure that's a fact.

posted by wfrazerjr at 11:58 AM on December 13

"When he immediately turned his career around in Toronto ... Then he forced a trade to the then-dynastic Yankees..." It's probably true that Clemens forced a trade out of Toronto. But Jays fans have never really held that against him the way they were angry at Alomar for quitting, or Al "the ingrate" "mr. blister" Leiter for turning his back on Paul Beeston. Clemens came to Toronto with the understanding that he wanted to compete for a World Series, and that's the pitch Beeston sold him. Clemens then did everything he could for Toronto, but the Jays couldn't hold up their end of the bargain, and it was mutually decided that the handshake agreement between Clemens and Beeston (by then, the former-Pres) had to be honoured. After all, it was certainly true that at the time, everybody thought Clemens was at the and of his career, and that he deserved to pitch for a competitive team. So Roger left Toronto, if not with the fans blessing, then at least with their understanding. There was no bitterness. That's the reason why I don't think it's completely insane to think of the idea of Clemens in a Jays uniform again, simply because his experience there was almost entirely positive. He pitched fantastic, his employers honoured their word and granted him his wish.

posted by the red terror at 12:18 PM on December 13

That's the reason why I don't think it's completely insane to think of the idea of Clemens in a Jays uniform again, simply because his experience there was almost entirely positive. He pitched fantastic, his employers honoured their word and granted him his wish. Right, but what the hell does he want now? What's he after -- to make as much money as he can? To win a ring? To play in his hometown? Let him lay it out on the table, be honest about his motivations, and maybe there's an organization that will find that works with what they're after. If he tries to have his cake and eat it too, to hell with him.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 12:46 PM on December 13

If he tries to have his cake and eat it too, to hell with him. Miz bat, in all the places he's ever been, he's never done anything else.

posted by chicobangs at 02:18 PM on December 13

Miz bat, in all the places he's ever been, he's never done anything else. Mr. Chico, that's called the benefit of the doubt. I was feeling uncharacteristically magnanimous ;-)

posted by lil_brown_bat at 05:17 PM on December 13

Right, but what the hell does he want now? What's he after -- to make as much money as he can? To win a ring? To play in his hometown? Let him lay it out on the table, be honest about his motivations, and maybe there's an organization that will find that works with what they're after. If he tries to have his cake and eat it too, to hell with him. The man loves the game of baseball, obviously enough to debate playing another season. Those motivations are obvious. Money, rings, hometown, whatever, they all depend on that. And that main motivation, really, should be all any successful team needs to make a run at him.

posted by dfleming at 05:36 PM on December 13

I have no idea what his motivation is. But I remember what Alfred Hitchcock used to answer when actresses asked him when he was directing a scene, Hitch, what's my motivation? "Your paycheque."

posted by the red terror at 06:02 PM on December 13

The man loves the game of baseball, obviously enough to debate playing another season. Those motivations are obvious. Money, rings, hometown, whatever, they all depend on that. And that main motivation, really, should be all any successful team needs to make a run at him. dfleming, I'm willing to drink two sixpacks and suspend my disbelief and accept that Clemens is all about love of baseball...in which case, why does he even need to play in the majors? He doesn't, if that's all that matters. If it's one or more of the other things, my point is, he can't have 'em all. So which is it?

posted by lil_brown_bat at 06:35 PM on December 13

Playing for the love of baseball? See: Henderson, Rickey.

posted by grum@work at 11:54 PM on December 13

Roger Clemens is a baseball pitcher, period. That's all he knows, that's all he'll ever do. It's got to be unsettling for him (or any really successful athlete) to come to the end of the road, especially if they're still having much of that same success. He likes the life, attention, competition, etc. being a pro athlete allows him. He can say he wants to be near his family, it's for the love of baseball, it's not about the money, blah, blah, blah, but I really believe it's wanting to keep doing what he's been doing practically his whole life for as long as he can possibly do it. Going from his lifestyle to one of retirement at a fairly young age is a daunting transition.

posted by dyams at 08:49 AM on December 14

I don't think Clemens has much to be worried about after baseball, Dyams. I mean, c'mon ... look at this incredibly classy stuff his wife is selling!

posted by wfrazerjr at 10:58 AM on December 14

At no point did he ever demand a trade, ignore a contractual agreement or not show up for work. He was a free agent everytime - and to top it all off, he's played for four teams in twenty years - the one that drafted him, the one that offered him the most money, the biggest one in sports and the one in his hometown. That's really not that bad; certainly by comparison to some others. Well, that's certainly the cliffnotes version. I won't bore anyone with another rant, but that paragraph could easily be tore to pieces. It's half the truth. And really, he's done nothing buy bring the goods, too... Now gary, I want you notice how peaceful I've been through all this Clemens-ness. Hopefully, through the last round of out-of-order comments, I've purged myself of personalizing and getting defensive for at least a year. Heh. See, you miss my complements for clemens. He's going to go down as probably the greatest pitcher of all time. But even if I like clemens I don't think he's a good fit. Four forty year olds on the staff...not good. look at this incredibly classy stuff his wife is selling! That alone should be reason enough to keep him out of the hall. What the hell is it?

posted by justgary at 12:18 PM on December 14

That alone should be reason enough to keep him out of the hall. What the hell is it? The best I can figure is that it's a "rocket", with the cone painted like an American flag, and the body is a signed baseball from Roger. In truth, it may be the best/worst ornament I've ever seen.

posted by grum@work at 03:50 PM on December 14

look at this incredibly classy stuff his wife is selling! That explains his wanting to move far away from Texas again. His wife's obviously doing too much acid!

posted by dyams at 05:52 PM on December 14

The best I can figure is that it's a "rocket", with the cone painted like an American flag, and the body is a signed baseball from Roger. Thanks grum. I can sleep a little better at night now.

posted by justgary at 06:54 PM on December 15

If Tie could keep performing as he did at 33 today, he'd still be lacing his blades. So what, he now plays hockey without skates? the Houston Texans will not fire Dom Capers, they will only demote him to Defensive Coordinator Not holding my breath waiting for that to happen. Sorry, Your Majesty. As far as Clemens, I side with justgary. When Rahjah was in Boston, I was usually grateful to have him, but every once in a while, he did something stupid which hurt the team. Other than that, I never liked him much. Granted, I don't know the man personally, and can only go on what is presented by and about him, but I just don't like him much, and at this point in his career, I would have a hard time welcoming him back to Boston with open arms, especially for the money it would cost the team.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 10:24 AM on December 17

What the hell is it? A little something Debbie keeps close to her on nights when Roger's on the road.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 10:25 AM on December 17

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