I'm on a sports discussion board. One where most do not take the time nor effort to spell-check or preview their posts to find errors or mistakes before hitting the 'post' command. I neither claimed that only pros could critique pros, nor assigned rights to anyone, I only stated the fact that those who are critiquing (yes, the spelling IS correct) a person should be sure of their facts before doing so, and a vast majority are neglect in this regard, especially in view of as many as queue here. In regard to music, facts remain facts. Eminem is tone-deaf, but still makes millions annually, but not from the likes of my pocketbook. But this doesn't take a degree to estimate, just a modicum of taste. Words do not create music, but millions of below-80 IQ people think it does, so he succeeds, yet an intelligent musician like Roger Bobo makes a fraction of his income with 293 times the talent. As far as Tie Domi goes, he was well above average in his day. If Tie could keep performing as he did at 33 today, he'd still be lacing his blades. Clemens has shown he can still perform MOST DAYS at a well-above-professional acumen, and if he has a bad day or two, nobody here should try to SINK his attempt unless they can show they themselves are a better judge of his talent than his prospective paycheck-writer.
One where most do not take the time nor effort to spell-check or preview their posts to find errors or mistakes Are you talking about other people? I only stated the fact that those who are critiquing (yes, the spelling IS correct) a person should be sure of their facts before doing so, and a vast majority are neglect in this regard No, you clearly implied we Vast Unwashed should keep out mouths shut. Also, you used the wrong form of "neglect": this entry only shows entries for noun and verb usage. Eminem is tone-deaf Source, please. But this doesn't take a degree to estimate, just a modicum of taste. At which point you've descended into our world of opinions instead of your Towers of Light and Fact. Hi, welcome to our hovel. As far as Tie Domi goes, he was well above average in his day. Grum's comment (as I understood it) meant, "Tie Domi has never been much of an offensive force and has had to rely on his physical play to make it in the NHL, but he could obviously rack up 10 goals a game in anyone's local rec league." When was Domi "well above average" and by what measure? nobody here should try to SINK his attempt unless they can show they themselves are a better judge of his talent than his prospective paycheck-writer. Who is trying to do what now? All we're doing is talking and I've yet to hear about a comment of mine that got a player fired. Also, I'm a better judge of talent than a number of GMs I've seen in baseball in the last 20 years. Plenty of us may be. You can get all fired up about that, but why could it not be true?
u tel him yerfamta
Oh, mrhockey is just pissed because he doesn't agree with most people's assessment of Clemens. The whole 'you don't deserve to have your opinion respected because you don't play the game' arguement is a popular choice when confronted with such. Although, I do feel at times that there is an unbalanced/unfair assessment of Clemens in some regards for being a 'hired gun', or disloyal, or what have you. I mean, the Sox basically decided not to resign him, he bailed on the Jays - but really how many of you care about that, went to the Yanks for a few years and then went home. At no point did he ever demand a trade, ignore a contractual agreement or not show up for work. He was a free agent everytime - and to top it all off, he's played for four teams in twenty years - the one that drafted him, the one that offered him the most money, the biggest one in sports and the one in his hometown. That's really not that bad; certainly by comparison to some others. And really, he's done nothing buy bring the goods, too... Except for maybe (maybe) that last season in Boston (and his season was still good). Frankly, at times I think the hate shot at Clemens is unfair.
Now gary, I want you notice how peaceful I've been through all this Clemens-ness. Hopefully, through the last round of out-of-order comments, I've purged myself of personalizing and getting defensive for at least a year. Carry on...
Frankly, at times I think the hate shot at Clemens is unfair. I agree. People get down on the Rocket and for what, his little incident with Piazza? Roger has but together one of the most impressive pitching resumes ever and he still can't catch a fucking break. I was a little pissed at the way he left the yanks but if you have a chance to move home and raise your family were you want to and can still do what you love, well then by all means go for it. That being said, Roger is still a huge a gamble, especially for the kind of money he would command on the free agent market. Anything longer than a year is a bad investment. At his age he could suddenly fall off to never return again.
... I only stated the fact that those who are critiquing (yes, the spelling IS correct) a person should be sure of their facts before doing so ... Roger Clemens is a great pitcher, but he's also a huge dick. I'm pretty sure that's a fact.
"When he immediately turned his career around in Toronto ... Then he forced a trade to the then-dynastic Yankees..." It's probably true that Clemens forced a trade out of Toronto. But Jays fans have never really held that against him the way they were angry at Alomar for quitting, or Al "the ingrate" "mr. blister" Leiter for turning his back on Paul Beeston. Clemens came to Toronto with the understanding that he wanted to compete for a World Series, and that's the pitch Beeston sold him. Clemens then did everything he could for Toronto, but the Jays couldn't hold up their end of the bargain, and it was mutually decided that the handshake agreement between Clemens and Beeston (by then, the former-Pres) had to be honoured. After all, it was certainly true that at the time, everybody thought Clemens was at the and of his career, and that he deserved to pitch for a competitive team. So Roger left Toronto, if not with the fans blessing, then at least with their understanding. There was no bitterness. That's the reason why I don't think it's completely insane to think of the idea of Clemens in a Jays uniform again, simply because his experience there was almost entirely positive. He pitched fantastic, his employers honoured their word and granted him his wish.
That's the reason why I don't think it's completely insane to think of the idea of Clemens in a Jays uniform again, simply because his experience there was almost entirely positive. He pitched fantastic, his employers honoured their word and granted him his wish. Right, but what the hell does he want now? What's he after -- to make as much money as he can? To win a ring? To play in his hometown? Let him lay it out on the table, be honest about his motivations, and maybe there's an organization that will find that works with what they're after. If he tries to have his cake and eat it too, to hell with him.
If he tries to have his cake and eat it too, to hell with him. Miz bat, in all the places he's ever been, he's never done anything else.
Miz bat, in all the places he's ever been, he's never done anything else. Mr. Chico, that's called the benefit of the doubt. I was feeling uncharacteristically magnanimous ;-)
Right, but what the hell does he want now? What's he after -- to make as much money as he can? To win a ring? To play in his hometown? Let him lay it out on the table, be honest about his motivations, and maybe there's an organization that will find that works with what they're after. If he tries to have his cake and eat it too, to hell with him. The man loves the game of baseball, obviously enough to debate playing another season. Those motivations are obvious. Money, rings, hometown, whatever, they all depend on that. And that main motivation, really, should be all any successful team needs to make a run at him.
I have no idea what his motivation is. But I remember what Alfred Hitchcock used to answer when actresses asked him when he was directing a scene, Hitch, what's my motivation? "Your paycheque."
The man loves the game of baseball, obviously enough to debate playing another season. Those motivations are obvious. Money, rings, hometown, whatever, they all depend on that. And that main motivation, really, should be all any successful team needs to make a run at him. dfleming, I'm willing to drink two sixpacks and suspend my disbelief and accept that Clemens is all about love of baseball...in which case, why does he even need to play in the majors? He doesn't, if that's all that matters. If it's one or more of the other things, my point is, he can't have 'em all. So which is it?
Playing for the love of baseball? See: Henderson, Rickey.
Roger Clemens is a baseball pitcher, period. That's all he knows, that's all he'll ever do. It's got to be unsettling for him (or any really successful athlete) to come to the end of the road, especially if they're still having much of that same success. He likes the life, attention, competition, etc. being a pro athlete allows him. He can say he wants to be near his family, it's for the love of baseball, it's not about the money, blah, blah, blah, but I really believe it's wanting to keep doing what he's been doing practically his whole life for as long as he can possibly do it. Going from his lifestyle to one of retirement at a fairly young age is a daunting transition.
I don't think Clemens has much to be worried about after baseball, Dyams. I mean, c'mon ... look at this incredibly classy stuff his wife is selling!
At no point did he ever demand a trade, ignore a contractual agreement or not show up for work. He was a free agent everytime - and to top it all off, he's played for four teams in twenty years - the one that drafted him, the one that offered him the most money, the biggest one in sports and the one in his hometown. That's really not that bad; certainly by comparison to some others. Well, that's certainly the cliffnotes version. I won't bore anyone with another rant, but that paragraph could easily be tore to pieces. It's half the truth. And really, he's done nothing buy bring the goods, too... Now gary, I want you notice how peaceful I've been through all this Clemens-ness. Hopefully, through the last round of out-of-order comments, I've purged myself of personalizing and getting defensive for at least a year. Heh. See, you miss my complements for clemens. He's going to go down as probably the greatest pitcher of all time. But even if I like clemens I don't think he's a good fit. Four forty year olds on the staff...not good. look at this incredibly classy stuff his wife is selling! That alone should be reason enough to keep him out of the hall. What the hell is it?
That alone should be reason enough to keep him out of the hall. What the hell is it? The best I can figure is that it's a "rocket", with the cone painted like an American flag, and the body is a signed baseball from Roger. In truth, it may be the best/worst ornament I've ever seen.
look at this incredibly classy stuff his wife is selling! That explains his wanting to move far away from Texas again. His wife's obviously doing too much acid!
The best I can figure is that it's a "rocket", with the cone painted like an American flag, and the body is a signed baseball from Roger. Thanks grum. I can sleep a little better at night now.
If Tie could keep performing as he did at 33 today, he'd still be lacing his blades. So what, he now plays hockey without skates? the Houston Texans will not fire Dom Capers, they will only demote him to Defensive Coordinator Not holding my breath waiting for that to happen. Sorry, Your Majesty. As far as Clemens, I side with justgary. When Rahjah was in Boston, I was usually grateful to have him, but every once in a while, he did something stupid which hurt the team. Other than that, I never liked him much. Granted, I don't know the man personally, and can only go on what is presented by and about him, but I just don't like him much, and at this point in his career, I would have a hard time welcoming him back to Boston with open arms, especially for the money it would cost the team.
What the hell is it? A little something Debbie keeps close to her on nights when Roger's on the road.
