posted by mbd1 to baseball at 10:54 PM - 85 comments
You know, that's why you don't announce your "Play(er) of the game" moment until the game is over! I'm sure Lance Berkman will enjoy knowing that FOX chose his home run as the play of the game... BTW, am I the only one that's getting tired of hearing how wonderfully scrappy David Eckstein is? Can someone tell me the last time the announcers used the words "scrappy" or "hard working" or "giving it his all" when describing a non-white player?
posted by grum@work at 10:59 PM on October 17
Hats off, especially to eckstein. I think barbara bush could have yanked that slider pujols got.
posted by catfish at 10:59 PM on October 17
My stomach dropped when they announced player of the game. C'mon grum that at bat by eck was pretty clutch.
posted by catfish at 11:01 PM on October 17
When I saw him hit that HR, and how high and fast it was leaving the ballpark, I half-expected it to shatter a light stand and rain sparks down on the field. C'mon grum that at bat by eck was pretty clutch. Oh, it was clutch. And you can say that. But they don't need to keep going on and on about how he plays every game like it's the most important game of his life, and how he never gives up and how he's always trying his hardest. Because, you know, no one else could possibly play that way too.
posted by grum@work at 11:02 PM on October 17
posted by DrJohnEvans at 11:04 PM on October 17
Yeah I guess I filter that stuff out, well that & volume is off 95% of the time.
posted by catfish at 11:04 PM on October 17
I don't think that the ball has come down yet. Gravity be damned when Pujols gets it in his wheelhouse.
posted by NoMich at 11:06 PM on October 17
Why on earth did Pujols get a pitch that he could hit out of the park with two outs in the top of the ninth? What did Eckstein do that was so scrappy?
posted by kirkaracha at 11:07 PM on October 17
Heh. You said Pujols. I actually shut the game off once the 8th inning started, because I figured, you know, Houston's bullpen wouldn't give it up. I wish I hadn't shut it off.
posted by rocketman at 11:08 PM on October 17
Wow. I dropped the remote when I said that when it happened. I was all ready to turn off the TV and make plans for Saturday. Now I have to make plans for Wednesday too. Interesting note: while watching the game in HD, it broadcasts in full 5.1 surround sound. As the ball was leaving the park, I could hear a distinct fan in one of my rear speakers going "Noooooooooooo! Noooooooooooo!" over and over again. Why on earth did Pujols get a pitch that he could hit out of the park with two outs in the top of the ninth? What did Eckstein do that was so scrappy? The slider didn't, uh, slide. It just hung there like a T-ball. Eckstein got a hit with two outs and two strikes. And then he scrappily ran to first base. Then he scrappily took second base on catcher indifference (not a stolen base). Then he scrappily rounded third and scored on the home run. Then he gave out a bunch of scrappy high-fives.
posted by grum@work at 11:10 PM on October 17
I wish I hadn't shut it off. Ouch. I've trained myself to hang in to watch the end of ANY baseball game (that has meaning). Even if it looks like an obvious finish (like game 7 in the ALCS last year), I won't turn away. Just. In. Case.
posted by grum@work at 11:12 PM on October 17
I actually shut the game off once the 8th inning started, because I figured, you know, Houston's bullpen wouldn't give it up. I did that in Game 6 of the 1993 World Series, after Philadelphia churned out five runs in the seventh inning to take the lead. I have since learned my lesson.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 11:13 PM on October 17
Albert Pujols. Say it with me M.V.P. I know that they post season "doesn't count", but...........
posted by imanage at 11:17 PM on October 17
Okay grum, you gotta be tired of hearing "Lights Out" Lidge too. (Which had a double meaning tonight thanks to Pujols' monster homerun.) The FOX NLCS announcers (and the guy with the goofy noise meter reader) pretty much repeated everything they said about each player from the two previous games, so hopefully the Cards will make it to the WS and you can hear the A Team (Joe Buck, etc) come up with some new adjectives to describe the Eck factor. I'm lovin' that they helped turn the tide my announcing the player of the game just a tad early, to coincide with the Astros eight inning victory celebration, also.
posted by cardsfan at 11:20 PM on October 17
If Eckstein choked up any higher on that bat he'd hit himself in the scrappy junk swinging.
posted by smithnyiu at 11:24 PM on October 17
The only thing going through my mind when Eckstein hit that single on a 1-2 count was how the Astros killed the Phillies that way in September. Wagner had 2 strikes on Biggio with 2 gone, and I've never heard a stadium full of maniacs quiet down so quickly as when that home run left the yard.
posted by cl at 11:28 PM on October 17
Overlooked was Isr pitching 2 innings without giving up a hit. Sometimes he gets a little shakey in those situations
posted by kevin.mcclelland at 11:30 PM on October 17
BRAD LIDGE,....HMM....GUESS HE AIN'T SO BAD A$$ AFTER ALL. OK. EVERYBODY MAKES A MISTAKE BUT I'M JUST GLAD THAT sT.lOUIS GETS ANOTHER SHOT. HAD TO BE DEVESTATING FOR ASTROS FANS TO BE 1 OUT AWAY....... BTW,.... CAN YOU SAY 'MOMENTUM SWING?'
posted by basseuphoria at 11:35 PM on October 17
Yeah kevin Iz pitched a great 8th but the stros looked like they had given up after the blast. Hate to see them lose that way but I don't think many picked them to beat the cards four straight.
posted by catfish at 11:47 PM on October 17
The last thing Houston wanted was to give St Louis their second air. Watch the birds take it all the way now!
posted by zippinglou at 11:53 PM on October 17
I was at a sports bar here in Dallas that had a strong Astros fanbase tonight. Chanting, drinking, acting like they won the World Series at any given strike call. That said, I was giving sideglances to both this game and the MNF game while playing darts with my friends. The louder the 'Stros fans got, the more irritated I was. All I can say is, I closed out my game of cricket with three consecutive 18's, and, literally, 5 seconds later, Pujols closed that game with his three run homer. My face needs to be on SportsCenter. *More realistically, I'm stoked for the Cards, if for no other reason than there will be at least one more game at Busch, and I have the utmost respect for Cards fans. That, and Houston is an evil dirty nasty city.
posted by Ufez Jones at 11:55 PM on October 17
the fat lady threw out her voice on this one
posted by kevin.mcclelland at 12:02 AM on October 18
yep all of those gun lovin Texans were blasting the Cardinals right out of the sky. However one Redbird got through and dumped a big one on them
posted by kevin.mcclelland at 12:07 AM on October 18
And the look (in slow mo) on Clemens' face as Pujol's blast became a very small dot in the Houston night. So sweet. ...and Houston is an evil dirty nasty city. Seconded.
posted by smithnyiu at 12:21 AM on October 18
Ufez, smithnyiu, thank you for reinforcing my totally irrational distaste for the Astros. Really. I mean it. I'll buy you a beer next time you're in Toronto.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 12:23 AM on October 18
I thought you could see berkman's home run coming from a mile away. He had hit carpenter hard, carpenter was starting to hang his breaking stuff, lefty/right...etc. I would have made a move. In the ninth I make edmonds beat me. When pujols came up I turned to the (newly) baseball fan next to me and explained how good pujols is, that he might just hit it out of the stadium, and he basically did. I thought the astros were celebrating a little too much with a 2 run lead, only in the seventh, and facing a good team. Curtain calls? Get a few more outs then run around the entire stadium. Watching clemens and pettitte witness the home run was priceless. Awesome. Wednesday should be great. BTW, am I the only one that's getting tired of hearing how wonderfully scrappy David Eckstein is? I always thought 'scrappy' meant the opposite of our very own rentaria. ;)
posted by justgary at 12:23 AM on October 18
I have been watching the NL series with only one eye but it seems as if every time Pujols comes to bat he smacks the stuffing out of the ball. Even his singles to left are scorched. He's got this Dick Allen clothesline screamer thing going that gives you goose bumps. I'm starting to root for the Cards to come here this weekend for the Series just to see what the White Sox pitchers can do with him. After cowering, of course. Nice catch on "scrappy," grum. The world never tires of complimenting the average-sized white guy. I bet if I wore eyeblack my editor might call me scrappy. Or at least "heady."
posted by Brett at 12:42 AM on October 18
If Eckstein choked up any higher on that bat he'd hit himself in the scrappy junk swinging. That made me cackle.
posted by dusted at 01:37 AM on October 18
The homerun didn't surprise me so much- the sad part was watching Lidge walk Edmonds just before Pujols came up. With two outs, why walk Edmonds to bring up Pujols as the possible winning run? A 3-1 count, the next pitch is a foot inside. Seems like the better move is to groove it over the plate, possibly miss low or high or just put it down the middle and hope for the best: worst case scenario is a tie if Edmonds jacks it, best case scenario is Edmonds getting himself out on an overswing for a pop fly or ground out. Then at least in a tie game, you might walk Pujols to face someone else. But walking a batter to bring the potential winning run to the plate?! That's.. unfathomable. If Lidge threw that pitch inside intentionally, he should have been off that mound instantly for poor judgment; if he threw it unintentionally, likewise because obviously he couldn't find the plate with a compass and a map.
posted by hincandenza at 01:40 AM on October 18
Thanks for the scrappy explanation, grum.
posted by kirkaracha at 01:44 AM on October 18
no more dissing eckstein. hes a stud. and pujols is the man. no doubt MVP. Cards in 7, we aint bringing down the house without another World Series. I also think that chone figgins is a scrappy player. Andruw WHO? ALBERT FOR PRESIDENT. OH AND LIDGE, WHOS YOUR DADDY!
posted by tcardsfan1 at 01:48 AM on October 18
I, for one, am extremely glad that St. Louis won this game. I hope it goes the full 7 games, and the seventh game is a 15 inning affair where both teams use every pitcher they have. Keep beating up on each other fellas. WE'RE WAITING FOR YA!!! Go White Sox
posted by Shoalbaby at 05:37 AM on October 18
I've always thought of David Eckstein as The Little Shortstop Who Could.
posted by rocketman at 06:43 AM on October 18
His dad's a scrappy Republican politician in Florida, and his nickname is "Whitey."
posted by cl at 07:28 AM on October 18
Steve Levy just called Eckstein "scrappy" again on SportsCenter. Eck must have an endorsement deal with the word "scrappy."
posted by The_Black_Hand at 07:36 AM on October 18
Granted Pujul's is a class act, however St Louis fans you're still down 3-2. Let's see you talk smack in the next few days.
posted by Richard j Garcia at 07:57 AM on October 18
Phil "Scrapiron" Garner must be pissed at scrappy Eckstein.
posted by drevl at 08:00 AM on October 18
My wife was asleep. Ninth inning, two runs down, nobody on base. I was ready to go to bed. Then a little guy on my shoulder started negotiating a deal with me: if Eckstein gets on, I twist myself a fat nightcap and wait for some magical fireworks display. Edmonds takes the walk and I'm puffing . . . all of a sudden Brad Lidge is possessed by a demon called Donnie Moore. Pujols yanked that ball -- I was holding my breath and pinching myself -- this can't be real -- it was like a pitching coach grooved a pitch in a homerun contest. If there's not a fence stopping that ball, it's a 500+ foot shot. Yee-har!! Hadta roll another one to celebrate!! It will be fascinating to see what sort of resolve the Astros have to pull themselves together with a lead and their collars tightening...
posted by the red terror at 08:12 AM on October 18
I think that this rivalry could be great for baseball. I think that everytime these teams meet it will be a great game to watch. But, it will only be that great if it doesn't turn into a red sox/yankees thing where people actually fight, stab, throw batteries, hurl insults, and make utter jack asses of themselves over something they really have nothing to do with. Now, I've been a baseball fan for about 25 years and I just don't want this series tainted by idiotic insults by people who never played, or haven't watched until they're team does something good. The cards are still down in the series 3-2, and they're facing Roy Oswald, and if necessary, Roger Clemens. They are great at home in big games so I think it is going to a great game or games.
posted by tb_mitchell at 08:17 AM on October 18
Scrappy: a little white shortstop from the South. See: The Greatest Slump of All Time
posted by Amateur at 08:19 AM on October 18
Eckstein not average sized, well undersized. But he IS a nutcase based upon what I read about him in '02. Eats the same thing every day, drives a 20 yo car, lives in a cheap apartment with his mom. If you read Schlegel's column on mlb.com, you'll think he won the game. BTW, that tater land yet? I couldn't agree more than if you question pitching to Pujols in that situation. Brain-fart. He's the NL Big Papi. Why not walk him and get to a .200 ps hitter in Sanders? I guess a single ties the game, but still, Pujols is a .368 ps hitter.
posted by sfts2 at 08:23 AM on October 18
And BTW, every major city is dirty for the most part! New York, Boston, Chicago, LA, and even St. Louis has it's dirty secrets, I'm sure. Houston is no exception! I thinks it's funny how playoff baseball brings out this kinda hatred, especially if you've never been outside the city limits of your little home town. So, let's sit back, pop a top, and enjoy the ride.
posted by tb_mitchell at 08:30 AM on October 18
Great game, even if it felt like a kick in the stomach. I don't know why baseball brings out the superstitious in me...not saying the "W" word(s), not liking it when Berkman was announced player of the game, etc. To top it off, I get a call from a friend who was in a bar in Houston after the 7th telling me there's only 6 more outs to the big one; I swear I felt my stomach drop. Then he went on about how Lidge would close it out in the 9th and I told him the Cardinals had actually hit Lidge better than the other relievers in this series. I know Garner has to go with works, obviously. Didn't the announcers keep telling how Lidge was 17 jillion and one with a lead going into the 9th, with the one loss being against the Cubs in the last Friday of the regular season? Anyway, it's a great series and deserves one more game. Just one I tell ya. One.
posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 08:36 AM on October 18
And BTW, every major city is dirty for the most part! New York, Boston, Chicago, LA, and even St. Louis has it's dirty secrets, I'm sure. And Dallas too. I was born and raised there and I doubt too many of the white boys that post here will hang out around the Fair Park area anytime soon. Without zoning laws, parts of Houston look bad, especially if you're only seeing the areas coming in from both airports. There's also some really nice areas and more pro athletes per capita make Houston their homes than any city in the country. But what really makes Houston great is the people and unless you've lived there, you have no clue.
posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 08:43 AM on October 18
Albert Poohole's brings it back to Busch. WOW. I hear ya Shoalbaby.
posted by HOE.O.K. at 08:44 AM on October 18
I thought you could see berkman's home run coming from a mile away. He had hit carpenter hard, carpenter was starting to hang his breaking stuff, lefty/right...etc. I would have made a move. I dunno, justgary. I thought Carpenter's stuff was okay. He'd certainly left some breaking balls hanging throughout the game, but I don't think that was one of them. It was a good pitch, down and away, and Berkman just managed to bloop it into the short porch.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 09:02 AM on October 18
Pujols can be summed up in one phrase: "The MAN, the MYTH, the LEGEND." Not only is he the greatest hitter in the game right now, not only does he have the potential to be the greatest hitter to ever play the game, he is also a wonderful person who does alot for the community. So I say again "the MAN, the MYTH, the LEGEND"
posted by mcstan13 at 09:04 AM on October 18
I'm a transplanted St. Louisan and huge Cardinals fans, so when Edmonds walks, I turned to my wife and said, "There's no freaking way Houston pitches to Pujols. They throw him four pitches low and outside and work to Sanders." I don't think I've ever been so surprised in my life as I was when that slider hung up. I didn't yell, I didn't cry ... I just jumped out of my chair and said, "My God, that's gone." Both Brad Lidge and Phil Garner gotta lotta 'splainin' to do. Oh, and for God's sake, why weren't the announcers a little more outraged about Pettitte's obvious balk to pick off Eckstein earlier in the game? At least David got a chance to slide into second scrappily.
posted by wfrazerjr at 09:09 AM on October 18
Both Brad Lidge and Phil Garner gotta lotta 'splainin' to do. This from the Houston Chronicle: Not long after Astros manager Phil Garner visited the mound to tell Lidge he could walk the All-Star, Pujols ripped a hanging slider to give the Cardinals a come-from-behind 5-4 victory in Game 5 of the National League Championship Series. "We didn't have to give in to him; make your pitches. (It) doesn't matter if we walk him," Garner said when asked what he told Lidge on the mound. "He made a bad pitch."
posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 09:17 AM on October 18
Say what you want about Ekstien, but I give him alot of the credit for last night--he kept the game going when he was down to his last stike! Albert hit the bomb, but david lit the fuze!
posted by daddisamm at 09:18 AM on October 18
Oh, and for God's sake, why weren't the announcers a little more outraged about Pettitte's obvious balk to pick off Eckstein earlier in the game? That balk was ridiculous. His entire lower right leg had crossed the rubber.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 09:25 AM on October 18
Say what you want about Ekstien, but I give him alot of the credit for last night--he kept the game going when he was down to his last stike! I don't think anybody here has a problem with Eckstein's performance; just problems with the media coverage of that performance.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 09:27 AM on October 18
Eckstien's a favorite like so many others. He's terribly ungifted for a big leaguer and looks like the milkman. I don't begrudge his popularity because these brainless annoucers can't think of another word besides 'scrappy' to describe him. I want the Astros to win (I'm a big fan of ending long runs of playoff ineptitude - years of being a Leaf fan), but that home run was freaking wicked.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 09:37 AM on October 18
It looked like Lidge went to his knees in a "oh shit, that's gone" gesture before Pujols even swung at it.
posted by cl at 09:47 AM on October 18
David Eckstein is: Lil' Scrappy.
posted by chris2sy at 09:49 AM on October 18
It looked like Lidge went to his knees in a "oh shit, that's gone" gesture before Pujols even swung at it. Me, I like how Brad Ausmus made just one brief glance at the ball in play before asking the ump for a new ball.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 09:53 AM on October 18
It looked like Lidge went to his knees in a "oh shit, that's gone" gesture before Pujols even swung at it. Looking at it again on mlb.tv, he doesn't really do that. I guess it was me who did. :)
posted by cl at 10:14 AM on October 18
posted by smithnyiu at 10:41 AM on October 18
Houston is an evil dirty nasty city. Jesus, like St. Louis isn't?
posted by thewittyname at 11:07 AM on October 18
I hope when Roger pitches and loses in game 7 that we don't have to hear about his scrappy mom and her Shoeless Joe chant on her death bed. That stuff is why I don't listen to the morons in the booth. Pujols thy name is MVP. Reminded me of Niedenferer pitching to Jack Clark in '85.
posted by budman13 at 11:28 AM on October 18
The word scrappy is starting to lose all meaning to me now.
posted by grum@work at 12:02 PM on October 18
There is a lot of shit-talking going on today. I hadn't realized the Cardinals were a lock to win it now, after winning a second game. And who could be more scrappy than Scrappy Moore? (anyone who scrapped their way to playing in more than four games I guess...)
posted by chris2sy at 12:07 PM on October 18
is it just me, or does Pujols look like The Crusher?
posted by kirkaracha at 01:15 PM on October 18
Pujol's hit was amazing, but unless it inspires the Cards to get some more offense going, it doesn't mean squat! On the Houston side, "He made a bad pitch..." might go down in infamy...
posted by slackerman at 01:25 PM on October 18
I dunno, justgary. I thought Carpenter's stuff was okay. He'd certainly left some breaking balls hanging throughout the game, but I don't think that was one of them. It was a good pitch, down and away, and Berkman just managed to bloop it into the short porch. I don't know. It was a close call I admit (a few others had my thoughts also). Regular season? I leave him in. But not on the verge of being knocked out of the playoffs. If I have anything in the pen I don't stick with 'ok' stuff. I thought he was tiring. And it was a short shot to left, but he's gone that way before, so it really wasn't a surprise. But I agree it wasn't clear cut. There is a lot of shit-talking going on today. Yes there is... "It stings," said Brad Lidge, who had seen Pujols turn his 88 mph hanging slider into a comeback. "[But] we're going to win, and when that happens, it's not going to matter."
posted by justgary at 01:28 PM on October 18
Looked to me like Babs Bush was getting ready to leave with one out in the top of the inning, and Poppy made her stay. I bet he got an earful on the ride home.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 03:05 PM on October 18
I understand that the elder Bushes attend a lot of games, but my eye caught them standing there, right behind the plate, quiet and still (with the rest of the stadium going nuts), sometime during Eckstein's at-bat. It struck me how strange it would be pitching like that. Lidge and all the Houston pitchers are probably used to it, but I couldn't help wandering if they freaked him out too.
posted by cl at 03:25 PM on October 18
6pm Sportscenter just described this hit as "A swing that just might have changed baseball history." But coverage is never excessive nowadays.
posted by yerfatma at 05:02 PM on October 18
Technically, anything that happens in or around a baseball game changes baseball history.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 05:04 PM on October 18
Yerfatma, that doesn't count unless Stuart Scott yelled "BOOYAH!" at the top of his lungs.
posted by wfrazerjr at 05:37 PM on October 18
It was an amazing moment, but changing "baseball history"? PUH-leeze. ESPN is just grasping because they don't have a NY, LA or Boston team to throw into the whirling dervish of hyperbole during these playoffs now.
posted by buck at 07:00 PM on October 18
ESPN is just grasping because they don't have a NY, LA or Boston team to throw into the whirling dervish of hyperbole during these playoffs now. ESPN? Hyperbole? Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?
posted by The_Black_Hand at 09:24 PM on October 18
ESPN is just grasping because they don't have a NY, LA or Boston Oh, if it had been NY, LA or Boston it would have been even bigger. The end of the world!
posted by justgary at 11:03 PM on October 18
I guess you have to hand it to those "scrappy" ESPN broadcasters for never blowing anything out of proportion.
posted by tb_mitchell at 08:50 AM on October 19
Pujols can be summed up in one phrase: "The MAN, the MYTH, the LEGEND." St. Louis already has Stan "The Man" Musial. As the NL's best ever hitter (331 avg, 3 time MVP, 7 time batting champ, 20 time all-star) he could also be called "The Legend". It really would be something to see a Cardinal out-do Musial. Pujols may well be that man. Only time will tell. Too bad they didn't play in the same era, like Ruth and Gehrig.
posted by drevl at 08:53 AM on October 19
"Over the weekend at one of the games -- Houston and St. Louis -- one of the camera men caught former President Bush and his wife Barbara Bush kissing. Y'know, by god, you know you're at a dull game when you'd rather make out with Barbara Bush." --David Letterman
posted by the red terror at 09:16 AM on October 19
As the NL's best ever hitter . . . Willie Mays is on the line.
posted by yerfatma at 11:43 AM on October 19
As the NL's best ever hitter . . . Willie Mays is on the line. That was my first reaction as well. Then I poked around the statistics a bit and I'm not so sure anymore. OPS: Musial - .976 Mays - .941 OPS+: Musial - 159 Mays - 156 Blank Ink + Grey Ink + HOF Standards + HOF Monitor rankings: Musial - 5+3+3+2 = 13 Mays - 18+8+3+5 = 34 Even with the significant HR difference (660 - 475), Mays still had a lower SLG than Musial. They are pretty damn close as hitters, but Musial might be better. Mays, however, makes up for it in spades for his fielding (since Musial played 35% of his games at 1B) and baserunning (Mays had more than 4x as many stolen bases). Mays is definitely the better overall player. So the original statement "Musial = NL's best ever hitter" may just be true.
posted by grum@work at 12:17 PM on October 19
No arguement with Willie as all around. I was only referring to hitting. In addition to grum's stats: Batting Avg: Mays 302 Musial 331 Walks to KO's: Mays 1464/1526 Musial 1559/696 Also, Willies 338 stolen bases are impressive, but his 103 cought steelings are not.
posted by drevl at 12:40 PM on October 19
The fact Pujols is even mentioned in the same breath as Mays and Musial is scary enough for Astros fans.
posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 12:43 PM on October 19
So the original statement "Musial = NL's best ever hitter" may just be true. Yeah, I kind of blanched at it, but when I tried to think of a list of better hitters, I came up with a pretty short list. Let's give it to Stan on the basis of one stat: Hits at home: 1,815 Hits on the road: 1,815
posted by yerfatma at 02:52 PM on October 19
The AL (Ruth Gehrig, Williams and Foxx) trumps all.
posted by drevl at 03:15 PM on October 19
That Ruth Gehrig- he was one hell of a hitter, let me tell you. So huge a hitter, he took up two spots in the batting order! Powdered over 1200 homeruns over the course of his career... what a slugger! :) Just kiddin' ya, drevl!
posted by hincandenza at 07:01 PM on October 19
posted by The_Black_Hand at 03:02 PM on October 20
Did you draw that? WOW I cant even draw that good
posted by redsoxrgay at 07:02 PM on October 22
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