The interllect in this thread is staggering.
Grumm, . You were talking "pure hitter " You can't include walks as a hit . Last I knew you need to swing a bat to hit , you don't to get a walk . So throw the walk stat out . So we can't include home runs (the single greatest achievement by a batter) and we can't include drawing a walk/getting on base (a sign of a good batting eye). You know, once you take away Gretzky's goals and assists, he really wasn't that good of a hockey player. Dont even bother with grum, he loves defending bonds for some reason. As soon as i told him bonds admitted using steriods, i felt like i could feel a part of him dying. Actually, the only time I've felt like a part of me was dying (during a sporting event) was when Norwood went wide-right in 1991, and the Leafs got knocked out of the playoffs by the Kings back in 1993. As for Bonds and steroids, the reason I "defend" him (if you can call it that) is that I despise the very weak arguments put up by some "accusers". "Look at how big he is!" "You can't have a jump in HR like that without being on steroids!" The honest truth of how I feel about Bonds? I think Bonds used a performance-enhancing drug during the off-season between 1999 and 2000. I don't believe he used steroids per se, but was given something by his trainer to help recover from the injuries in the 1999 season (when he only was able to play 103 games). I don't think he took them to get "bigger and stronger", but to help him train in the off-season to recover from those injuries. After recovering from the injuries much quicker, he went and had another great season (one of his best, but not beyond his capabilities). What he took at the time is unclear, but it was definitely not against any rules in MLB at the time (since their weren't any). The 2001 season (73 HR) was a result of maintaining the same training system (including using the same drugs he used to recover from the previous injuries). However, since he didn't have any injuries at the time, it probably gave him a boost in power. After the 2001 season, I believe that he stopped taking the supplements that were provided to him by his trainer (since the HR number sent up a warning signal). He might have been informed (at that time) by his trainer that what he was taking was "suspect". His following seasons (2002-2004) were the result of his astounding batting eye and fear from the pitchers/managers to even challenge him. You'll notice that he dropped back down to 143/130/147 games played (after 153 in 2001), suggesting that his age/injuries were affecting him. There. That's my assumption. Can it be proved? Probably not. That's why I don't trumpet it from the towers every time a thread about Bonds comes up. I believe in facts, not in suppositions.
Also Bonds has more intentional walks then anyone in history , so that doesnt exactly tell me he has a superior eye for getting walks. That's why they score intentional walks separately. You know, once you take away Gretzky's goals and assists, he really wasn't that good of a hockey player. 577 career penalty minutes, baby!
Lil Brown Bat ...... i havn't missed many Yankee games since '76 so yes im well aware of Mickey Rivers and his bizarre stance . Grum ... All I can say is you listen to any old ballplayers talk "pure hitters" and they would not include home runs and walks ..... If your talking All Around Best at getting on base then yes Bonds is up there , the numbers show that , but the phrase pure hitter is taken out of context here . mbd1 , interllect ? i assume you hit the r by mistake , lol its always a scream when someone screws up typing a word while trying to put others down .
listen to any old ballplayers talk "pure hitters" and they would not include home runs and walks Name these players. Aaron, Ruth, Williams? Who the fuck are you talking about? It's just annoying at this point: I can accept there are people as ignorant as you, but it pains me they're able to plug electrical equipment into a wall without harming themselves.
I disagree , the phrase pure hitter indeed has the word HITTER in it , a form of the word HIT meaning to strike something . We are not talking On Base Percentage which would include walks , we are talking about hitting . Three words: Ted Fucking Williams. By most accounts the greatest pure hitter who ever lived. Aw hell, here's a few more for you: Babe Ruth. Lou Gehrig. Mickey Mantle. Hank Aaron. Take a look at their stats. Notice anything? Like that they all took a LOT of walks?
Lil Brown Bat ...... i havn't missed many Yankee games since '76 so yes im well aware of Mickey Rivers and his bizarre stance . His stance was arguably bizarre, but it wasn't his stance that drew walks. So, clearly, you agree with my point, that the number of walks a batter draws is a metric -- albeit an unquantifiable one -- of a hitter's ability as perceived by pitchers, who ought to know.
i'd never get in a battle of wits with someone with an id of yer fat ma .... too deep for me . I agree with you all 100% WILLIAMS ,RUTH ,GEHRIG, MANTLE ,AARON and yes BONDS all are some of the greatest hitters and had alot of walks but this all started with grum calling bonds the greatest "pure hitter" of all time which i said if you take away his hr's he doesnt even match up with carew , gwynn and boggs, all considered pure hitters . That was just a small example , I didnt get into the older players just those closer to bonds era and all had the same years played . It's a matter of proper english and the use of the word hitter wish i can only guess isnt being grasped by all of you .
the use of the word hitter wish i can only guess isnt being grasped by all of you . Now you're just being obtuse. Part of hitting is knowing when not to swing. a matter of proper english Oh, stop, you're killing me.
ok appearantly your teachers didnt get through to you in english class , here you go ... education.yahoo.com these are definitions of the word hit/hitting .... you find anything in there to support your theory and you win .
You know, it's not like Bonds just started drawing walks after he bulked up/took the roids. Check out his early years (you know, when he looked normal) and you'll see that aside from his first couple seasons, the man always drew a lot of walks and didn't strike out an inordinate amount. I can't tell you the number of times I've seen Bonds go the other way with a two-strike pitch. He's just a damned good hitter. Is he the best ever? Oh, GOD, no. I can think of 10-20 guys right now I'd place ahead of him. But he's in the argument, at least. Finally, for God's sake, would someone please tell major-league hitters to take a strike, especially on your first trip through the order? See what the pitcher's got, make him work deeper in the count. If it worked for Ted Williams, you morons, it'll work for you.
these are definitions of the word hit/hitting .... you find anything in there to support your theory and you win . Here's a definition for you. There is no art without chaos.
I can almost hear the "old ballplayers" now: "Sorry, we'd like to let you into the club of pure hitters, but you hit too many home runs. And you have to do something about all those walks."
ok appearantly your teachers didnt get through to you in english class Well, somebody sure taught the average SpoFite more about spelling, punctuation, and diction than you seem to have absorbed...so maybe you ought to lay off criticizing others' use of the language, mmmkay? I also think it's about time that you stopped beating the "hitter" thing to death; half a dozen people have addressed your point, and you haven't responded to anything they've said except to quote a general dictionary definition that doesn't even bear you out. From the baseball-specific section of the very definition that you quote: 5. Baseball a. To execute (a base hit) successfully: hit a single. b. To bat against (a pitcher or kind of pitch) successfully: can't hit a slider. Now, don't you think that that b. definition has enough room to include drawing a walk? I'd say if you get on base, you've sure 'nuff "bat[ted] against (a pitcher or a kind of pitch) successfully". You got on base, and that was the objective; therefore, you were successful.
Man I really struggle to see how people like this think they know anything about baseball when all they do is create a bunch of meaningless stats and fail to realize bonds was just a piece of fucking shit bastard who ruined the game forever. It's this level of anger and hatred toward Bonds that I don't understand. Good god, a "piece of fucking shit bastard who ruined the game forever"!? He's just a baseball player who, like many, many of his peers, has probably taken performance enhancing drugs at some point in his career. Get over it. :)
Here's a definition for you. There is no art without chaos. thats not a definition , thats a statement . definitions are found in dictionaries not encyclopedias.
sorry i didn't put in punctuations , i'm doing a few things at the same time . diction ? what's wrong , i didn't put enough slang in my sentences for you ? i guess i should return my degree back to syracuse u .
piece of fucking shit bastard who ruined the game forever Damn that's funny. Can you picture that on his tombstone? Remember when he hit his 600th HR? He wrongfooted, one-handed, golfed an 0 and 2 changeup for an opposite field HR. Just a lazy pop fly 5 years ago. He did change his game, and that was wrong. But I don't hate the guy.
Uhm, the definition was in the link. The statement was just a comment on my perspective on the issue. I would think someone who graduated from one of the Rust Belt's finest institutions would grasp that intuitively.
i thought it was the Snow Belt
It is snow belt , I've lived in the area 41 years and have never heard it called the rust belt .
I've lived in the area 41 years and have never heard it called the rust belt . Well, I grew up in Schenectady and rust belt is exactly what it is. Given that you're at least 41 years old, I'm surprised you haven't heard the term before.
I think the problem is you're very narrowly defining the notion of a 'hitter'. And somehow are clinging to this idea that 'pure' hitters don't walk or hit home runs and carry a high batting average. And thirdly that these things equal being better. And you're wrong about the last bit - Batting Average is a stat that is less valuable than OBP.
i said if you take away his hr's he doesnt even match up with carew , gwynn and boggs, all considered pure hitters . But that's deliberately setting limitations in order to prove your point. The other way to play it is "Take away Carew's, Gwynn's and Bogg's singles, and none of them would compare to Bonds in terms of hitting. Take away all the singles, doubles, home runs and walks, and none of these guys would compare to this guy." Fine, I'll concede: Barry Bonds was not as good as Rod Carew, Tony Gwynn or Wade Boggs at slapping singles. If you think that's what it takes to make a "pure hitter", then there really isn't much more to talk about. It is snow belt , I've lived in the area 41 years and have never heard it called the rust belt . You are a graduate of Syracuse and you've lived there for 41 years and you've never heard the term "rust belt" (there is the definition of that phrase, found in an encyclopedia, or a generic description found in a dictionary)? I'm a bit shocked by that.
i didn't say i've never heard the term, i said i've never heard the area i live in called rust belt .
clicking on your site proves my point , western ny .... i and syracuse u. are in central ny .
I was being rude. I went to school in Rah-cha-cha and always considered Buffalo the right end of the Rust Belt. If it's not the end of the Rust Belt, it's still the end of something. And if Buffalo isn't in your definition of the Rust Belt, it's time to redefine.
From grum's link: A heavily industrialized area containing older factories, particularly those that are marginally profitable or that have been closed. I don't see anything in there about "...but not in central New York".
i and syracuse u. are in central ny oh please. anything above westchester is upstate. :-)
lil brown bat ... look at the map first of all ... everything in red is the rust belt area , now secondly read the text ...The Rust Belt, also known as the Manufacturing Belt, is an area in the northeastern and north-central United States whose economy was formerly based largely on heavy industry, manufacturing, and associated industries. This area is roughly defined as comprising the northern sections of Indiana and Ohio; the northeastern corner of Illinois; the Lower Peninsula of Michigan; the Lake Michigan shoreline of Wisconsin; western New York; at least the western half of Pennsylvania; and the northern part of West Virginia . if you can read this i think you will see it says western ny .... the area shown is around 60 miles from me and 80 miles from s.u. .
In summation, shithole 1 != shithole 2?
Actually what he's trying to say is: if (shithole_1 != shithole_2) { trace ("Pack your shit and move to Florida"); }
Diction, rust-belt, universities, etc. What was the original thread? Time to move on folks. That horse has obviously been beaten to death.
In recent years, the big city populations in the Rust Belt are decreasing. According to the 2000 U.S. Census, Detroit, Cleveland, Toledo, Buffalo, Pittsburgh and many more are some of the fastest-shrinking big cities in the US, despite attempts to revitalize their downtown areas. Buffalo's in there.
That was also from grums link
jojo , i know buffalo's in there , syracuse isn't though and that was the arguement . i live near syacuse and buffalo's 60 miles west of me 80 west of syracuse .
Uh, Cleveland's in there to - and decidedly further from Buffalo than Syracuse. Face it - you're rust belt. Look, look - I'm just going to say it. Syracuse sucks. Rust belt or not. Yeah, that's right - I'm trashing your home town annonymously on the internet! How rare. :) Just kidding - lovely town. Nice AAA ballpark; tough place to hit.
I love it here, so say what you will. You don't have to live here, I do and I chose to!! Plus it was someone else that said buffalo wasn't in the definition of the rust belt. Bonds Done For the Rest of 2005 Barry calls it done for 2005 on the advise of his doctors. Lets get back to the origingal posting
That's a great picture of Barry Bonds to save and compare his body size when he returns next season . See if there's any difference from this year to next .
