I'm with Howard. I hate all forms of forced shows of fake patriotism. Patriotism is teaching your kids about the Constitution, not memorizing the pledge of allegiance. Patriotism is participating in your country's elections not participating in the National Anthem. The flag, the anthem, the pledge of allegiance are not our country. They are a flag, a song, and a saying, and that's it.
Barack Obama may be forced to denounce Josh Howard, but I can't imagine any other black person caring one whit.
"Could anyone out there in spofi land explain to me why there would be a causal relationship between not "celebrating" the national anthem and being black?"
Slavery was covered (not outlawed) several times in the constitution. First, in the enumeration clause, Slaves were counted as 3/5's of a person (Northerners wanted them counted as mules or horses. Southerners wanted them counted as "whole people").
In article 1, section 9, congress is expressly limited from prohibiting the importation of slaves until 1808.
And there's the Fugitive Slave clause in which the laws of one state do not excuse a person from service or labor in another state. In other words, if a slave escapes, he must be returned to his owner.
This is not ancient history. It's the single most important document in U.S. history.
Slavery existed until 143 years ago. The civil rights act was only passed 44 years ago. And I think most of us agree that racism, in some form or another, still exists.
This is NOT to say I agree with Howard. Or the way he said it. In fact, it's kind of ironic that he chooses to say this when an African American man is running for President, a watershed moment in race relations in the U.S.
But there is a clear history of racism in this country. Howard does come off like a bonehead. But that doesn't mean that what he says has absolutely no merit.
Wow, this thread isn't going the way I expected when I opened it. I figured a few people would be praising Howard for standing up for what he believes in (which I doubt he even knows what he believes in), and few people calling for his head, and the rest just kinda shaking their head. But, a surprisingly and IMHO disappointingly large number of people are actually siding with him and using this as an opportunity to
The flag, national anthem, and pledge of allegiance are not just objects as some of you would like us to believe - they are representations of what it means to be an American - just like voting, Free Speech, and learning our history. I'm not happy with several things about this country, but I damn well am not going to disparage a significant sign of respect for this country to demonstrate that. I don't like everything that my parents have ever done, but they're by-in-large vary good people, so I don't walk up to people who are giving their parents a hug and tell them "you fuckin' wimp - my parents should just leave me the hell alone."
It's a matter of respect. If you don't want to participate then don't. And, if you feel so negatively toward this country as to go to the extra step, then you truly should find another place to reside, and don't hold it against me if I have a few choice words for you on the way out.
Crap - did I miss the "preview comment" button or something? sorry.
Anyway, meant to add to the middle of my rant :
I'm with Howard. I hate all forms of forced shows of fake patriotism.
Exsqueeze me, but who the F are you to tell me that my patriotism is fake? I love folks that are confident enough in their omnipotence to instruct me on what is and is not patriotic. I agree with the Constitution and voting points you make, but don't tell me that because I happen to value the pledge of allegiance and national anthem, that I'm fake. something I think rcade said that these things are meaningless if they are compelled. I agree to an extent - I don't do those things because I am forced (has someone in this group had a gun put to their head to sing?) - I do these things because I personally value them. If you want to me explain to me why you don't participate, that's fine, but don't consider me a lemming because I choose to do so.
And cjets, you've missed some earlier points. There are things that this country should be ashamed of, and still should to this day. But, the national anthem, other than having been written a long time ago, is not mentioned in any part of your dissertation and the song makes no reference in support of slavery or anything else that is "less than great" about this country.
I value and would argue to the ends of the earth for your (not pointing at anyone in this thread, other than Josh Howard) free speech ... and my free speech, which I'll choose to use to turn around and point out why you're being a jackass for being so disrespectful (again, don't sing if you don't want, I won't say anything, but don't go out of your way to bash it, either).
"the national anthem, other than having been written a long time ago, is not mentioned in any part of your dissertation and the song makes no reference in support of slavery or anything else that is "less than great" about this country."
The National Anthem represents our country. If someone wanted to take a principled stand against the treatment of Blacks in the U.S. and chose not to sing the National Anthem, that's their right.
I personally would not agree with them. But I would not think that their claim is completely without merit either.
By the way, L.L., dissertation? I'm flattered.
Exsqueeze me, but who the F are you to tell me that my patriotism is fake?
I don't think I said any such thing. I was making a statement about whether it is even a show of patriotism to stand for the Anthem. If Howard stood up for the flag and thought about what he was having for dinner, is he patriotic? Is he less so for not bothering with the pretense? Does it matter that he stands for it more than a hundred times year? If he votes, he is more patriotic in my book than slightly less than half of Americans who don't bother - whether he stands for the Anthem or not.
I don't like when people use patriotism as a weapon. I don't like when people decide that they get to test everyone else for patriotism or set up thresholds that people must meet before they are patriotic. You can choose to express your love of this country through song if you so choose. I'd just appreciate the same respect for Americans who choose to express that some other way.
What do you mean, "I don't think I said any such thing"? I copied "fake patriotism" from your post.
Regardless, funny enough, I'm fairly close to your and cjets' sentiments, but you just seem to be carrying it to an extreme that I disagree with.
If all we were talking about was "chose not to sing the National Anthem, that's their right.
I personally would not agree with them. But I would not think that their claim is completely without merit either." or "whether he stands for the Anthem or not. ... I'd just appreciate the same respect for Americans who choose to express that some other way.", I'd be done talking and I'd actually defend that stance. But Howard didn't simply choose not to sing - he chose to go the extra step of foul-mouthingly disrespect the anthem. THAT'S the part of this that some people here seem to be praising him for and is what I take exception.
Again, don't say the Pledge or sing the Anthem - fine. Live and let live.
Badmouth the flag, Pledge or Anthem simply as something you think is stupid - fine (freedom of speech). But "live and let live" no longer applies. My freedom of speech now kicks in and you're going to hear about how wrong I think you are.
Why does it matter what Josh Howard says? Does this fall under that whole "athletes are role models" thing again? He can feel free to say whatever he wants...he just has to be prepared for the inevitable backlash from something like this. He obviously doesn't care what you think, so why should we care what he thinks?
'he chose to go the extra step of foul-mouthingly disrespect the anthem. THAT'S the part of this that some people here seem to be praising him for and is what I take exception.'
I did say he was a bonehead in my first post. When I talk about someone taking a principled stand, I am NOT talking about Howard.
But the general notion that a black man may have issues with the U.S., and, as a result, chooses not to stand for the Anthem, is not without merit.
And yes, you're absolutely right. Just as he has the first amendment right to disrespect the anthem, you have that same right to tell him how wrong he is.
Cuz that's kind of why we spend time on SpoFi. We kill some time talking about what athletes in the news do and say.
And cjets, point taken. What I was trying to get at was that Howard sounded like a dumbass for not getting into his meaning. If he had looked into the camera and said "I don't respect the national anthem of a country which has treated Afircan-Americans so poorly throughout its history," I would certainly respect that. I just don't feel he made any sort of causal connection, nor do I feel he was implicitly trying to say that. I just think he was being a shit-talking dummy who thought he was clever in gurning on a song that many hold dear.
"I just think he was being a shit-talking dummy who thought he was clever in gurning on a song that many hold dear."
Yeah, I'd pretty much agree with that as well.
I'd like to see the anthem, the flag and the pledge being used a lot more thoughtfully than they currently are. The way things are now, I don't think there's a lot of cause for complaint if people talk, scratch their heads, fail to take off their hats, wonder if coach is finally gonna put 'em in, think about what's for dinner, or grumble about what bullshit this is.
I'm torn, lbb.
Part of me says that acknowledging those things are such simple and brief ways of acknowledging our respect for what we have as individuals and as a country, then why not.
But, I definitely see the logic that overuse reduces their impact - maybe even generates apathy or even mild forms of contempt.
Understand where you're coming from, lL. My comment is part of a larger wish, of course, that we are a little more thoughtful about our patriotism -- not thoughtful as in considerate, but literally thought-full. I also think that there's a very real danger that "acknowledging our respect for what we have" has turned into "refusing to acknowledge that some of us still don't have". That doesn't make a country stronger -- rather the opposite.
Howard's an idiot and it's his right to prove it. The American flag, Pledge and National Anthem should be respected but that's a personal choice. Many times I stood in the crease and sang along with "Oh Canada" yet luckily I'm not Canadian. Maybe Howard would have been happier if they had played "Lift Ev'ry Voice and Sing" which is considered by some to be the "Black National Anthem". that's one that I won't stand up for because I find it to be a sad comentary on everything that Dr. King preached and stood for. I'm a rare conservative that believes that burning the American flag in protest is the highest form of free political speech. The 1st admendment does give us freedom of speech but it was placed in the Bill of Rights to make sure political speech was protected. Just try yelling fire in a theater or "BOMB" at airport security. To address what some one brought up about blacks not being considered a complete person in the constitution, that had very little to do with slavery itself. That's there because the slave states didn't want to give the slaves any rights but they wanted them to count as full persons for the purpose of being able to count them when it came time to assigning the number of delegates that the slave states could send to the congress. The free states wouldn't go for that so you have the partial person clause. Yup, America's a bully and to that I say...bully. I'm proud to be an American and I don't mind standing at a football game or anywhere that they choose to play it.
lL, I said something about fake patriotism, I didn't say anything about your patriotism.
I wouldn't really characterize my position as extreme, but I fundamentally disagree that showing respect for the Anthem is the same as (or as worthwhile as) showing respect for this country. And, further that showing respect for patriotism on display (Anthem, Pledge) is the same as being patriotic. Patriotism should never be used as a bludgeon to get people to submit to something, even if that something is the Anthem or the Pledge. Patriotism, like faith, need not be on display to be real and true.
budman13:
Maybe Howard would have been happier if they had played "Lift Ev'ry Voice and Sing" which is considered by some to be the "Black National Anthem". that's one that I won't stand up for because I find it to be a sad comentary on everything that Dr. King preached and stood for.
Since "Lift Ev'ry Voice and Sing" was written 29 years before Dr. King was born, I don't see how it can be a commentary of whatever emotional flavor on anything he did.
Wow... this is the FIRST time a big-mouthed black athlete has disrespected the country that has enabled him to live in luxury.
WTG JOSH! Now we all know you're not only a racist, but a complete idiot.
Also, I'm just wondering if you "celebrate" the millions of dollars you're paid for playing a game in this country?
The fact is, this country doesn't NEED you. If you were to disappear and head back to "The Mother Land", not a soul would miss you or your perpetual antagonisms and provocations. (Better get a Dictionary - I'm sure, with your limited vocabulary, you'll need it)
By the way, please take Obama with you.
lbb, The song itself whether it be "Lift Ev'ry Voice" or "Another Saturday Night" by Sam Cook is not the point that I was making. The point is that for a song to be designated as "the black national anthem" is contrary to the doctrine of unity that Dr. King preached. Maybe I'll start playing the rap group Two Live Jews and their song, "Oy It's So Hummid" during the high holy days as my Jewish National anthem. Too many men and women of all races have died for this country's freedoms to be so devisive.
"If you were to disappear and head back to "The Mother Land", not a soul would miss you or your perpetual antagonisms and provocations. By the way, please take Obama with you."
Wow, did you just tell two American citizens to go back to Africa? Maybe you should go back to that spot under the bridge you call home, Troll.
And, by the way, please take McCain, his hundred years war, failing economy, flip flops on every issue, lies and his disastrously unqualified VP with you as well.
By the way, Mods, please feel free to delete my politicsfilter post as long as you delete the troll's post as well.
Remember YYM's always sage advice regarding feeding the trolls. That one'll flame out on his own,
oops, my bad.
Another dumb jock saying something dumb. He should go play in the europe league if he hates it here so much. FOAD you idiot
instead of urallcloolis,it should be u cant read this.I never said WE were slaves.and just as I said,I voiced my opinion and some asshole wants me to get the fuck out of the country.I love this place.you know what some dummy is going to say,and they say it anyway.
"What I was trying to get at was that Howard sounded like a dumbass for not getting into his meaning. If he had looked into the camera and said "I don't respect the national anthem of a country which has treated Afircan-Americans so poorly throughout its history," I would certainly respect that."
It's quite obvious that little Joshy doesn't have the mental capacity to think of something that deep.
Stick to hoops ass-hat.
BTW, has anyone figured out what he said about Obama at the end of this little fit.
If you were to disappear and head back to "The Mother Land", not a soul would miss you...By the way, please take Obama with you
Glenn, with comments like yours that's laced with racial undertones, I can now see why Josh Howard doesn't care to show his patriotism.
There's no need for the racist remarks. If you have something intelligent to add to discussion, feel free to do so but don't you dare share your ignorant rants with the rest of us. Go burn a cross on your own damn lawn!!
to rcade and etagloh...I shouldn't have worded my last post the way I did. Certainly America is far better than any dictatorship in terms of the amount of nationalistic behaviors that are expected of us, that is a given. I should have added that it is really quite difficult to find any developed country that has lower expectations than the US. I've traveled fairly extensively over the past 30 years, and i have family on three continents. In every country I have visited they play their anthems at all events, and everyone is respectful. I don't think the Howard type of behavior would be accepted as well as it was here in most European countries. Ironically, it's our very freedoms which allow him to be a total ass.
Lastly, and please keep in mind that is not meant to be racist, just factual. I find it odd that Howard thinks the American flag is tainted because we used to allow slavery. As a black man I would think that he'd embrace America because we learned from our mistakes and have worked to make this a place where people of all colors can succeed, not perfect yet, but better. If one studies the slavery trade, it appears that most of Africa still utilizes slavery, in fact, there are more slaves today than there ever were in any point in history. Every race, and probably every country has experienced slavery in some form in history.
(BTW, I verified my points with several sites, not just Wiki)
Have a great day, and I hope this great country of ours treats all of you well today!
I find it odd that Howard thinks the American flag is tainted because we used to allow slavery.
I would expect that history is less of an issue than how black people are still being treated in this country. You only have to take a look at this thread to see a glimpse of the kind of thinking that Howard has to deal with everyday of his life. There is just so much material here that reinforces Howard's view rather than weakens it.
lbb, The song itself whether it be "Lift Ev'ry Voice" or "Another Saturday Night" by Sam Cook is not the point that I was making. The point is that for a song to be designated as "the black national anthem" is contrary to the doctrine of unity that Dr. King preached.
But you were trying to make the point by referencing a certain song, so no, it's not irrelevant which song or (as I pointed out) when it was written. You talk about the doctrine of unity that Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. preached in the 50s and 60s, and then you cite the "Negro National Anthem" as an example of going against that -- but "Lift Every Voice" was written in 1900, at a time when African-Americans were subject to extensive de jure and de facto segregation that had the effect of preventing them from being a part of this country except as purely subservient, second-class citizens. Given that African-Americans were prevented from participating fully as citizens, the creation of a separate "national anthem" made total sense. Its use as an example erodes rather than supports your point.
BTW, "unity" was not Dr. King's only message, just the only one that a lot of people "remember" today, because they believe it's appropriate to use it to stifle any dissent. Got a problem with the state of race relations in the US today? Well then you're just making Dr. King spin in his grave, aren't you, because he preached unity and you're a big old...big old...dis-unity-er!
Dear Glenn,
I work for a national organization that deals everyday with a lot of AA children. Everyday I go to work thinking I can make a difference today. Today I can touch somebody's life and make it a little bit better. Some people need hope. And a lot of overpaid athletes (not Josh Howard)offer that hope and most do a lot of good things in their communities. I have never met and AA family that has a sense that they are better than anyone else. So I ask you in all seriousness what are you doing to make it better? Have you ever volunteered your time? You should it's very rewarding. Perhaps if you understood the problems or saw it for yourself you wouldn't have such a strong opinion. If that doesn't interest you, I am sorry.
To use a Cliche I believe in: If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem.
Ironically, you and Josh Howard have a lot in common. You don't appreciate the things that make this country wonderful. You both have the right to say what you want, you both exercised that right. Right or wrong you both get to say what your belief's are with the only consequence being a rebuttal from the opposition. It's really a great country!
Dear adammcd,
Since my previous post was removed, I tend to disagree with your statement that we "both have the right to say what we want"...
It seems to me that, unless one is in agreement with the general line of thought that the only prejudice shown in this country is exhibited by white people, the result is the usual barrage of being labeled a racist.
However, to compare me to Josh Howard is a real stretch...
I'm far from being a pampered, overpaid, "in yo face" person who disrespects the country that has provided me with a lavish lifestyle.
It's admirable that you've spent time volunteering with AA (African-American) families, but the contempt for whites shown daily in their "music", rantings and collective hatred for white people, dissuades me from even the consideration of contributing my time and effort to do anything for people who somehow feel entitled to the hypocrisy of hating me solely because I'm white...
The topic being "Josh Howard Disrespects the National Anthem", I stand by my previous comments.
If Josh cannot appreciate the country, and people (of ALL races) who have propelled him to his current "status", than to hell with him.
Perhaps he'd benefit from a tour of Africa, where, ironically, the slave trade is still a burgeoning commerce.
To tackle this whole controversy from a different angle, smithers brought to my attention that Mark Cuban has got some fires burning of his own as a result of posting emails he got in response to Howard's episode.
Wow, Spitztengle, those emails were terrible. I'm glad Cuban posted them though. Those people (and our very own Glenn) should not be allowed to hide their hatefulness with anonymity.
bperk...are you saying that black people are being treated worse in this country than in Africa?
Given that they still allow slavery, I'd take what they get here anyday.
Also, I'm not exactly sure what it is that Howard, and his $millions are dealing with every day of his life. I'd think most would take his situation in life over their own plights. I'm sure 99.9% of those in Africa would.
He has choices, with his money, he could go live in just about any country he wants. I hope he stays as I want him spending those millions in our economy!
now, if your point is that Howard was speaking for the masses of poor black people that being held down by "the man", that's a different story. I don't think he was speaking as such.
Hey Josh Howard, YOU'RE JUST AN ASSHOLE! If you don't respect the National Anthem or our flag leave. We don't like you anyway. Why don't you try and go play in the Congo. I'm sure the Rebels would love your little black ass there. You are just another black man with a big ass chip on your shoulder and we're sick of it. You are one of the ones that are bringing down the USA so just split. You won't be missed.
Just read the link to Cuban's blog. Man, that ought to cause some issues in some people's lives.
A few of the fools threw down racist garbage, and then listed their work email addresses! Using company time to rant on blogs usually isn't a great idea.
One interesting fact I learned by reading further down on Cuban's site is that he acknowledges that the money he made by selling broadcast.com was "found" money as opposed to "earned" money. He equates found money as money one comes into due to luck not hard work. I don't care for the man much, but big of him to admit that.
dviking, why on earth would you think I was talking about Africa? I said this country. What does Africa have to do with anything anyway? Are you suggesting that Africa should be a permanent point of reference for any black people in America? So long as it is better than Africa, there should be no complaining, right. I hope you see the problems with this line of thinking. Black people have been here longer than the vast majority of white people who emigrated later. Howard's roots probably go back further than the Kennedys, yet people still persist in talking about Africa. It just needs to stop. His right as an American is to criticize America. It doesn't make him less American to criticize America.
Howard is dealing with racism every day of his life. Look at this thread where he is called uneducated despite his degree from WFU. Look at how grateful he is supposed to be that there is a free market like he was given the gift of millions of dollars and didn't earn a damn thing. Look at all the racist freakin' commentary on this thread (wanting to send him to Africa, etc.). Look at spitz's link where Cuban posted emails from people about Howard. It is bigotry that he deals with everyday. Being rich does not make it disappear. It only makes people discount it.
Black people do not have a spokesperson to speak for all black people. It isn't Howard, it isn't Obama, it isn't Jesse Jackson, it isn't Sharpton. Howard speaks for himself, the exact same as you speak for yourself, and I speak for myself. He is not a representative of all black people. There is no such thing.
I chose Africa as an example since the Black people of the USA insist on being called African-American. Why can't they just be Americans? I'm an Italian but I am an American. My ancestors have been her longer than the African-Americans and they built this country. Do we get a break? I am voicing by opinion - that's what this country is all about.
If Josh Howard wants to reveal himself publicly as a total idiot, that's his right. To me it is an unthinking and misplaced gesture of anger. I have nothing more to say on this.
What I do have to say relates to the manner in which the National Anthem is treated at most sporting events, particularly those with a national audience. What set me off was the Monday night game at Dallas. The announcer said something to the effect of, "Please rise for the singing of our National Anthem. Our featured ENTERTAINER (emphasis mine) tonight is ...". Right there I threw a grade A nutty. The National Anthem is a patriotic song. It is not entertainment, to be butchered by some low-talent over-egoed wannabe star. Play it properly. Get a good marching band, small orchestra, or classically trained voice to perform it. Those in attendance should stand, uncovered, with the right hand over the heart. If someone doesn't care to do this, so be it. It is his choice. Maybe some day he'll figure it out. In the meantime, please tell the producers of these events to recognize that the National Anthem is not just another song.
OK, that's my screed for the day (or month, I hope). I apologise for causing offense, but I just had to vent my feelings on this.
On preview, the same holds true for any venue in the US performing "Oh Canada". It's way too good an anthem to be messed up.
dman is wrong,and right.all Black people of the USA dont insist on being called African-American.I for 1 hate that term.I was born here.so were my parents,grand parents,and so on.unless one of your parents was born here,and one wasnt:you are not a hyphenated american.I get so tired of people with their"if you dont like how it is here,go live somewhere thats worse" comment.just because some things are better here doesnt make it great all the time.I bet people who cant walk dont think it's great that they can still use their hands.I bet they would much rather have full use of their bodies.and to mr baddasse,unless you were fighting against bush and his asshole click,you werent fighting for my freedom.he is the one trying to take away my rights.NOT ANYONE IN AFGHANISTAN,OR IRAQ,OR BOSNIA,THE #1 ENEMY OF US CITIZEN'S RIGHTS HAS BEEN IN THE WHITE HOUSE FOR THE LAST 8 YEARS(2 IF SUBTRACT HIS VACATIONS.I RESPECT ANY SOLDIER WHO PUTS HIS LIFE ON THE LINE,NO DOUBT.BUT LETS GET REAL HERE,HIS WHOLE GAME WAS A LIE.
bperk, I said what I did since you referenced a line from my prior post in which I outlined how I find it hard to understand how Howard could say he won't celebrate the American anthem due to the flag standing for slavery, when slavery is abolished here, but not in his native Africa. Seems to me that he ought to celebrate the fact that we have moved to correct this horrible behavior. I never said he was a spokesperson for anyone except himself, which makes his statement even more confusing as he has a great life here, with financial success beyond most people's dreams.
As I stated, if he had somehow said he was saying what he did to draw attention to the plight of poor blacks that are discriminated against I'd be fine, however, I do not think he speaks for anyone except himself.
As to Howard being called uneducated by someone else, I did not say that, however, I do agree with johnnyballsack in that just because someone has a degree doesn't mean that he learned anything.
As to the racism Howard "puts up with an a daily basis"...do you really think he's reading this stuff? I don't.
dviking, I'll say this one more time since you missed it last time. Howard is not African nor is he a native African. He is an American. Stop referencing Africa. It's offensive. How many hundreds of years do black people need to live in America before they become Americans in your book?
bperk, maybe you take Howard's rant differently than I do. I feel that if one is going to criticize America for slavery, one ought to know what they are talking about. He does not.
If you want to accept his rants as free speech, you're welcome to that. I accept that, however I do not condone it.
Either work to make things better, or become part of the problem.
To say, while the anthem is playing, "I don't celebrate that shit, because I'm black" in reference to slavery is misguided.
As to my referring to Africa being offensive...wow, that's a stretch. I was merely clearly up some misconceptions regarding slavery. Sorry for the enlightment.
bperk - Since you're apparently the salt of the earth, perhaps you should reveal your own private information and not "hide behind anonymity". -I'm not stupid enough to do so. And if you want to label me because I go against the grain by speaking my true mind, knock yourself out.
The fact is, a pathetic number of black athletes have recently been involved in crimes including murder, rape, assault, firearms violations and domestic violence. Josh Howard's only crime, fortunately, is that he's dumb as a rock and doesn't understand the concept of biting the hand that feeds him.
You're other soapbox, regarding "how long do blacks have to be in this country before we consider them Americans?" is pure BS as well. -The term "African-Americans" is what they prefer to be called, to the best of my knowledge. -The reason for that being that they prefer not to, or are perhaps incapable of assimilating into society instead of blaming whites for the fact that their ancestors were sold into slavery by Africans of that time period.
It seems to me that everything is fine, as long as blacks, and other minorities are the only ones to exhibit any racial pride, but when a white man calls it as he sees it, in walks Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, the NAACP, the ACLU, etc. etc. etc...
There was a reference to Obama in the Howard video, and Obama, possibly the biggest ego in the history of mankind, attended a black seperatist church for 20 years. A church which believes that hating white people is an entitlement of blacks and not considered racism. -If you don't believe me do some research. (tucc.com)
Bottom line, I have ZERO respect for those who show me no respect, this includes those wannabe "gangstas" who make it a point to turn up their devisive rap crap, and walk around like everyone should bow down to them because they can jump high and dunk a fricking basketball. A huge number of "African-Americans", with their "in-yo-face" attitude, are creating the racism they whine about whenever it serves their purpose. So, basically, why don't you come down off your pedestal and consider that racism is by no means a one-way street.
Me thinks that perhaps a few here need to travel abroad more...visit some countries in which there is a dictatorship in power.
Sure, we play the anthem at sporting events, and grade school kids say the Pledge of Allegiance, and most companies fly the flag. This is slight compared to what happens in many countries.
Funny, because the American worhsip of the flag, the anthem, pledges in the classroom - well, yes, I do find it creepy. because it's precisely what makes America look less like the free country its founders intended.
As far as "bringing shame on the African-Americans who fought for freedom" - would those be the ones who weren't allowed to fight as first-class soldiers until after World War II?
rodgerd...exactly what country is it that doesn't play their anthem before events...I've never been there, nor heard of it.
To somehow spew about how Americans worship their flag is ridiculous. Every decent country (and most that aren't decent) have nationalistic behaviors.
Show me the country that allows whatever disrepect for their flag/anthem someone wants to show, without the slightest bit of concern.
And, please do explain how a very slight amount of worship of the flag somehow makes America not free.
Seriously, how much of your precious time is consume by the National Anthem, or "forced" flag worhsip? The average person doesn't spend a minute a week on this.
Yep, I think Howard is a complete ass, i hardly infringed on his freedoms. Yep, I'd like him to stop insinuating that the US flag is somehow tainted because like every other nation we once allowed slavery, again, I have not comprimised his freedoms.
rodgerd...exactly what country is it that doesn't play their anthem before events...I've never been there, nor heard of it.
How many countries have you attending sporting events in? Did they play their national anthem at every game?
Show me the country that allows whatever disrepect for their flag/anthem someone wants to show, without the slightest bit of concern.
What do you mean when you talk about a "country" "allow[ing]" this or that? Are you talking about some kind of federal legislation, and enforcement of same? Because, you know, we don't have that in the United States, thank God.
And, please do explain how a very slight amount of worship of the flag somehow makes America not free.
Reverence for the symbol and ignorance of the principles for which it stands, leads to behaviors that absolutely make the United States less free, in the form of threats, bullying behavior, ignorant jackass "back to Africa" remarks and the like.
Yep, I think Howard is a complete ass, i hardly infringed on his freedoms. Yep, I'd like him to stop insinuating that the US flag is somehow tainted because like every other nation we once allowed slavery
He never said the word "slavery". Why do you keep bringing it up?
