September 17, 2007

Yanks' Shelley Duncan Crushes Poor Child's Hopes, Dreams, Future, Then Laughs And Sacrifices A Black Goat To The Dark Lords : Okay, maybe it wasn't that bad.

read story | posted by The_Black_Hand to Baseball at 5:07 PM CDT (143 comments total)

Poor Duncan. I guess he will learn the hard way that joking about the Yankees-Red Sox rivalry is strictly prohibited.

posted by bperk at 5:18 PM CDT on September 17

Like on Sportsfilter?

posted by owlhouse at 5:59 PM CDT on September 17

either the Bambino is rolling over in his grave laughing his butt off...or Ted Williams is to do the same wanting to tear that ass clown a new one.

posted by french-connection at 6:05 PM CDT on September 17

If we were talking about an older fan, I would have no problem with this. In fact, if it turns out that Duncan signed this thinking it was for an older fan, I'd have no problem with this.

But a ten year old? I don't think any player from any team should sign something saying the home team sucks for a child fan of that home team. That's just lame.

posted by Joey Michaels at 6:07 PM CDT on September 17

Not being a Yankee or Red Sox fan all I can say is big deal. I know its a huge rivalry, one of the biggest in American sports, but in my opinion it is expected. I am not sure why everyone is making a big deal out of it, its not like the kid never heard the word before.

posted by buckeyeno1 at 6:17 PM CDT on September 17

How often do you think the kid says "The Yankees suck!" to his friends?

I get the feeling that the parents are making this a bigger deal than the kid.

In less than 10 years, he'll be bragging and showing off that ball to all of his friends.

(which will inevitably be followed by "Who the #%@* is Shelley Duncan?")

posted by grum@work at 6:43 PM CDT on September 17

I guess he will learn the hard way that joking about the Yankees-Red Sox rivalry is strictly prohibited.
posted by bperk

You would have a point if he wasn't 10. No, it's not that big a deal, but a parent shouldn't have to worry what's going to be written on an autograph. Just bad judgment on Duncan's part.

its not like the kid never heard the word before.
posted by buckeyeno1

How often do you think the kid says "The Yankees suck!" to his friends?
posted by grum@work

Lazy excuses. The first doesn't even deserve a response. The second, well, you don't know, do you. For all the "yankees suck" chants at fenway I promise you there's kids not allowed to do it.

It's a 10 year old. Sign your name, be happy someone wants the autograph of Shelley Duncan, and leave the ad libs for the 40 year old drunk guy who's been on your case all game. It's not too much to ask.

posted by justgary at 7:00 PM CDT on September 17

Aw, that kid is going to love that autograph a few years from now. Ten times better than "All the best!", or "Stay in school!". In the meantime, I'm sure the kid will live.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 7:25 PM CDT on September 17

In the meantime, I'm sure the kid will live.

He could have written "Your mom is a whore, Shelley Duncan" and he would have lived. And it would have even been more memorable. Yes, I know, a ridiculous example. But "he'll live" seems to be an equally ridiculous and meaningless excuse.

posted by justgary at 7:48 PM CDT on September 17

Oh, come on. This isn't Derek Jeter signing this kid's face with a sharpie, for god's sake. It's Shelley Duncan, on a piece of paper, in a notebook.

Shelley Duncan. A 27-year-old rookie. Which means there are probably a couple of people who've posted in this very thread who can play as well as ... Shelley Duncan.

This kid's parents are attention whoring him out. As long as everyone involved is cool with that, I guess, ehh, whatever. Tempest. Teapot.

Shelley Duncan. Who? Not Joe Dimaggio. Not Whitey Ford. Shelley Duncan.

posted by chicobangs at 7:52 PM CDT on September 17

Shelley Duncan sucks!

Signed, JameyG

OK I feel better about this now.

posted by Folkways at 8:38 PM CDT on September 17

I quess if you had to grow up with a handle like SHELLEY you would pick on
ten year olds to.

posted by thatch at 8:39 PM CDT on September 17

From the article:

Griffin’s mother, Karen, blasted the Yankees slugger’s bad manners.

“This is someone who wears the Yankee uniform and is on the payroll and should be setting an example for 10-year-olds,” she said.

This statement was made by a member of a fan base that has a proud tradition of wearing t-shirts pointing out that their most storied rival fellate, both generically and in certain specific pairings that particularly appeal to those with an eighth grade humor. When someone wearing a B on their ballcap gets all high-horsey about how "someone who wears the Yankee uniform" should be setting a good example, it just busts my irony meter all to hell and gone. They fellate, lady, as your fellow fans keep telling us. What'd ya expect?

posted by lil_brown_bat at 8:47 PM CDT on September 17

"Your mom is a whore, Shelley Duncan" and he would have lived.

Yes, but "Red Sox Suck" and "Your Mom is a whore" are a little different, no? When I say the kid will live, I mean it in the pejorative. When I say the kid is going to love that autograph a few years from now, I mean that literally. It's a cool autograph.

Quoth Homer: "Wow. Whitey Ford was hitting on MY wife."

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 8:58 PM CDT on September 17

I'm with Weedy.

I like to be outraged as much as anybody, but how offensive can the word "sucks" be to any 10-year-old who attends a Red Sox-Yankees game in either city? I took my son, slightly older, to a Jags game Sunday where the drunk fans right behind us kept cussing at players, passing fans, and fate. It was the highlight of the game for him.

Kids love profanity. Even mild stuff like "sucks."

posted by rcade at 9:08 PM CDT on September 17

Parents who would take their children to Fenway and then complain about this ...well, they sucks.

posted by wfrazerjr at 9:28 PM CDT on September 17

He could have written "Your mom is a whore, Shelley Duncan" and he would have lived.

Is the kid's mom a whore? Inquiring minds want to know and by the way.... the Red Sox do suck. At least he didn't lie to the kid.

posted by budman13 at 9:32 PM CDT on September 17

Is the kid's mom a whore?

She might be a media whore. She had them over to the house. That picture wasn't taken at Fenway.

It certainly wasn't a very classy act, and Shelley's going to hear about it, and probably find a dent in his next check. He's an extremely ebullient kid and it doesn't surprise me that he'd find something like that funny on the spur of the moment. And, in that environment, it's a pretty innocuous gag -- extending on Frazer's observation, you can't avoid hearing that sentiment chanted, both ways in both stadiums, even in a broadcast of the game.

Karen Whitman sucks.

posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 10:04 PM CDT on September 17

I thought we'd agreed on "intakes air sharply." And I was reading these posts with my kid on my knee. You guys suck..I mean..oh shit!

posted by tahoemoj at 3:38 AM CDT on September 18

Although, fellate, nice!

posted by tahoemoj at 3:39 AM CDT on September 18

This statement was made by a member of a fan base that has a proud tradition of wearing t-shirts pointing out that their most storied rival fellate, both generically and in certain specific pairings that particularly appeal to those with an eighth grade humor.

And I'm sure you know specifically that the kid's mom is one of those people, right? Thank God the fan base of your team doesn't do that. Big sigh of relief, eh?

Fer chrissake, it was a joke, a funny story that I felt lent some lightheartedness to what is often a bitter rivalry. Have some freakin' fun, willya?

posted by The_Black_Hand at 4:24 AM CDT on September 18

If I was the kid, I would start an online poll about whether I should send it to Cooperstown as is, with an "*" or send it to space.

posted by Joey Michaels at 4:37 AM CDT on September 18

And I'm sure you know specifically that the kid's mom is one of those people, right? Thank God the fan base of your team doesn't do that. Big sigh of relief, eh?

The point was not about the relative classiness of various team's fan bases. I lived two blocks from Fenway for a number of years, and I got to see the the kind of sentiments commonly expressed by the Fenway faithful on a daily basis. Being a member of said fan base doesn't mean that the kid's mom bellows, "JETER SUCKS A ROD!!!" whenever she goes to a game with her tender young boy beside her, but it does pretty much guarantee that she's heard such expressions. More importantly, she's heard many other expressions of how the Yankees are the great evil, low-class, spitters on sidewalks, etc. With that as a background, it seems just a wee bit disingenuous for her to get huffy about how Duncan "wears the Yankee uniform" and therefore should be setting a better example for kids.

Oh, and I'm having plenty of fun, and I expect Duncan was too. The mom, on the other hand, she's deadly serious, yup.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 7:34 AM CDT on September 18

I was so confused when I first read this story a couple days ago. For some reason, I couldn't differentiate between Shelley Duncan and Sandy Duncan. I was seriously confused for a good 2 minutes trying to figure out why Peter Pan was siding with the Yankees.

I apologize if this wasn't serious enough or was too light-hearted of an anecdote.

posted by jerseygirl at 7:34 AM CDT on September 18

More importantly, she's heard many other expressions of how the Yankees are the great evil, low-class, spitters on sidewalks,

Those bastards!

posted by tommytrump at 8:24 AM CDT on September 18

I don't really like the trend in parenting that encourages parents to try to correct other people's behavior. If you, as a parent, don't like the sentiment or the word, then you certainly could have used this as a teachable moment for your kid. You don't make a big deal and misconstrue something and teach your child that this person failed as a role model and all that. All she did was to reinforce to her child that athletes are and should be role models. It's just lazy parenting. Duncan does not have to set an example for your child, that's your job.

posted by bperk at 8:58 AM CDT on September 18

Amen Bperk, As a teacher, i couldnt agree with you more.

Lazy ass parents suck

posted by Debo270 at 9:17 AM CDT on September 18

Since this lady is making this such a big deal, I'll bet that she tries to sue. She'll probably say that the kid now has nightmares and wakes up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat screaming, "But the Red SoxDON'T suck, dammit!! Mommy!!"

Lighten up lady! Everyone knows that anybody wearing paraphernalia of a division rival in a series, especially in a Yankees/Red Sox series, has heard more vile language than the word SUCKS.

posted by BornIcon at 9:47 AM CDT on September 18

It doesn't sound like anything 10-12 years of therapy can't fix. DAMN you Shelley Duncan

posted by Debo270 at 9:50 AM CDT on September 18

That's a ginormous leap in logic, even for you, BI. Bravo.

posted by jerseygirl at 10:06 AM CDT on September 18

I'm obviously on the wrong side of this issue, so I'll recap and then run. As I said before, it's not a big deal. I actually find it funny (partly because it comes from a player on a team that likes to pride itself on being the classy alternative to the red sox). The kids not going to be scarred, I would have laughed at it, most kids would laugh at it, it certainly doesn't speak to Duncan's character, and after this I doubt it will ever happen again.

That said, I don't care if kids hear worse, or use worse, or love profanity, or that fenway crowds chant "yankees suck", or that he'll "live", or that in 10 years he'll treasure it, or that his mom is a media whore, or that Duncan is a "ebullient" kid or merely classless, or any other assumption, it was still a bad idea. It was then, and it is now. I don't care if she's a horrible mom, or a lazy mom, or mom of the year. None of that has anything to do with the fact that you should be able to allow your 10 year old to get an autograph without having to worry what lame attempt at humor a player is going to add.

I find the term 'evil empire' funny and inoffensive yet we've had discussions on the appropriateness of that term previously, and the hypocrisy of now saying get over it amusing.

This statement was made by a member of a fan base that has a proud tradition of wearing t-shirts pointing out that their most storied rival fellate

If that statement came from anyone but you miss bat I would try and explain that your sweeping generalization, like most, is unfair to a large percentage of the group you're attacking. I'd explain that I come from a long line of red sox fans (grand parents, parents, etc.) that looked down upon even booing of opposing players. That we don't fit into your stereotyping. That I know a LOT of sox fans but not one that would wear such a shirt. But I know from previous comments that you have serious issues with red sox fans and that in your mind we all have 'jeter swallows' t-shirts on and pray A-rod breaks his leg while Yankee fans cheer for their team while hoping Sox fans have a swell time at the stadium. So I'll pass and simply acknowledge that at least this post gave you another chance to lash out on a pet topic.

posted by justgary at 10:06 AM CDT on September 18

So I'll pass and simply acknowledge that at least this post gave you another chance to lash out on a pet topic.

But, Mr. Pot, on you it looks good.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 10:31 AM CDT on September 18

Poor judgment on Shelly's part, but I see it as a part of the Red Sox/ Yankees rivalry.
I would expect that the IRS has already contacted the family (As it has with fans that now own milestone home run balls) demanding their cut.
I thought it was mandatory to chant "Yankees Suck", "Red Sox Suck" depending on what team you root for?
Maybe Shelly falls into the realm of dumb jock and just wrote the last thing he heard?
EBay it & take the money, use it for the required therapy because of the emotional scaring!

posted by directpressure at 10:31 AM CDT on September 18

Gary, you're right. I'm going to give it all to you. What Duncan did was utterly classless. The pursuit of autographs is a sweet and untouchable tradition in baseball that innocent children should be able to pursue without the indignity of such an offense. Duncan's actions bring shame onto the entire Yankees organization, and as a prominent representative of the team this behavior really brings into question whether the organization as a whole has any class at all. I am utterly ashamed to be a Yankees fan today and will apply immediately for membership to Red Sox Nation, hopefully in time to vote for our fine president. The Yankees are a sham of an organization, and an attempt to pursue any angle to this story that doesn't address the sheer classlessness of Duncan and the Yankees organization is to deny the real story here and to deny the degredation of the Yankee culture.

You win it all, Gary. Thanks for setting me straight.

I find the term 'evil empire' funny and inoffensive yet we've had discussions on the appropriateness of that term previously, and the hypocrisy of now saying get over it amusing.

I'm not going to readdress my argument from that thread. If you don't understand why there is no hypocrisy here then you didn't understand my argument to begin with and there's no point in rehashing it.

posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 10:45 AM CDT on September 18

Even though I hate the Yanks, Shelley Duncan might be one of my new favorite players for this hillarious move.

Any one getting all high and mighty with this situation needs to get a grip on reality and take a look at the brainwashed Red Sox Nation who chants "Yankees suck" at EVERY game over and over again, regardless of opponent. How pathetic. And moronic. Try solving THAT problem before you get on Shelley Duncan.

For Pete's sake, I was at the Pats / Chargers game, and they were chanting "Yankees suck" in the bathroom at halftime!

Time to evolve past knuckle-dragging, you vastly over-rated fans of New England. Living up here, I know first hand. NY or Chicago fans these people are most certainly NOT.

posted by BCHockey at 11:02 AM CDT on September 18

But, Mr. Pot, on you it looks good.

Why not address his point instead of him? Why not explain why some random kid and his random mom are lumped in with everyone who ever puked under your window after a game at Fenway? I realize it's the Internet and Modern Life and it's lame to think of people as individuals with feelings that result from their life experiences and not yours, but acting as though you know someone because you know one fact about them is the online equivalent of telling a homeless person, "Get a job". You don't have time, fantastic.

I know I've jumped up on this soapbox before and been rightly called out, given this is a web site set up to comment on things, but when we get a "News of the Weird"-type story like this where there aren't too many positions to take, they often turn into a race to make the most clever sweeping statement we can make to try to cap the whole thing off. And after we do that, we get the over-doers jumping on, hoping to get their bellies scratched. To wit:

I'll bet that she tries to sue. She'll probably say that the kid now has nightmares and wakes up in the middle of the night . . . Everyone knows that anybody . . .

On preview:

Living up here, I know first hand. NY or Chicago fans these people are most certainly NOT.

Right, such knuckle-draggers you came up to go to college there.

posted by yerfatma at 11:07 AM CDT on September 18

they often turn into a race to make the most clever sweeping statement we can make to try to cap the whole thing off.

Well... uh... yeah. Is anyone here not aspiring to "most clever sweeping statement?" It's a cocktail party. Sure, there's small talk and all that, but really I'm just waiting around for the most hilarious opportunity to respond with "sounds like my ex-wife."

posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 11:36 AM CDT on September 18

And after we do that, we get the over-doers jumping on, hoping to get their bellies scratched

Or we get assclowns that want to make a point by bringing other people down.

This whole thing reminds me of the movie 61* when a fan asks Roger Maris to put his X on the ball and when Maris wrote a big X on the ball, he was basically lambasted by the media.

posted by BornIcon at 11:41 AM CDT on September 18

It reminds me of the scene in Phantom Toolbooth where there's a dog and stuff.

posted by yerfatma at 11:47 AM CDT on September 18

I'd settle for being just the most clever sweeper.

posted by qbert72 at 11:55 AM CDT on September 18

This reminds me of that scene in Fear when Marky Mark carved a prison tattoo of "NICOLE 4 EVA!" on his chest.

posted by jerseygirl at 12:17 PM CDT on September 18

I'd settle for being just the most clever sweeper.

The dude in Breakin' ran off with that title. And not much else. You really need fingerless gloves to compete.

posted by yerfatma at 12:21 PM CDT on September 18

Why not address his point instead of him? Why not explain why some random kid and his random mom are lumped in with everyone who ever puked under your window after a game at Fenway?

Because, if that is his point, it is a strawman rather than a point. The mom in question got high-horsey, and I think that was a bit much. Seems I'm not alone in thinking so. If you disagree, that's fine; however, I also find it ironic that both justgary and you are accusing me of digging up ancient bones (hence the pot vs. kettle reference). This isn't ancient bones, it's just a data point (i.e., that I've seen plenty of Red Sox fan behavior and heard plenty of "Yankees suck!" in the vicinity of Fenway Park, and that I'm damn sure that kid did too).

posted by lil_brown_bat at 12:27 PM CDT on September 18

I think the angle here that most of you seem to be overlooking, and which might be the most pointedly obvious, is that the Red Sox may actually "suck". Conversely, it should be noted that the Yankees may "suck" as well. I put forth the notion that all parties involved do, perhaps, "suck".

I also should note that I still prefer "intakes air sharply" to either "sucks" or "fellates". "Fellates" brings to mind a visual that I like to keep quite specific to the "fellater". Otherwise the application of neural suppressors is required.

I love the look on the kid's face in the picture. "What? There's no Santa Clause?" I can see his mom coaching him to get the look just right for the press: "More anguish sweetie, let 'um see how that bad Yankee hurt your feelings."

And I was just joking about Santa. He's real.

posted by THX-1138 at 1:03 PM CDT on September 18

A Louvin Brothers fan, THX?

http://www.dustygroove.com/prip/7/6/20067i.htm

posted by ajaffe at 1:09 PM CDT on September 18

if that is his point, it is a strawman rather than a point

How is it a strawman? The logical error was yours: "This statement was made by a member of a fan base" and you continue to compound it, "I've seen plenty of Red Sox fan behavior and heard plenty of 'Yankees suck!' in the vicinity of Fenway Park, and that I'm damn sure that kid did too". Moreover, where did I attack you?

posted by yerfatma at 1:15 PM CDT on September 18

Where's the logical error?

(and I didn't say you attacked me, I said you accused me)

posted by lil_brown_bat at 1:18 PM CDT on September 18

Hasty generalization, more specifically Association fallacy when you assume the kid has been exposed to all manner of spectacle simply by being a fan of the Red Sox. We could also throw in the Misleading Vividness of the "Horror Tales of Yawkey Way" you are always happy to share. Finish the whole meal off with Proof by Example from any of those tales.

For the record, I think this is a silly story and the mother a frightfully silly person for this getting anywhere near the news media. Had I been that child, my mother would have laughed and my father would have admonished me for trawling for Yankee autographs. I've never understood the appeal of autographs from hated rivals.

posted by yerfatma at 1:26 PM CDT on September 18

I lived two blocks from Fenway for a number of years, and I got to see the the kind of sentiments commonly expressed by the Fenway faithful on a daily basis.

Careful
with
that axe
Eugene.

Thank god you don't show up in "Fenway visitors guide" results.

posted by YukonGold at 1:30 PM CDT on September 18

Word to the kid and his mom. Stop crying... that autograph is now worth something.

There is no room for this whiney excrement if you want to aimlessly whine about nonsense and waste the worlds time join the Taliban.

posted by Willyzwb4twan at 1:55 PM CDT on September 18

Hasty generalization, more specifically Association fallacy when you assume the kid has been exposed to all manner of spectacle simply by being a fan of the Red Sox.

I don't know about that. The kid wasn't just a fan, he was attending games where the Sox were playing against their biggest rival.

posted by bperk at 1:58 PM CDT on September 18

I don't even know what you just said, but I bet it was a doozy.

posted by jerseygirl at 1:58 PM CDT on September 18

Hasty generalization, more specifically Association fallacy when you assume the kid has been exposed to all manner of spectacle simply by being a fan of the Red Sox.

Do you really feel that it's way out there to assume that this kid has, in the course of attending games at Fenway, witnessed people saying, chanting, or wearing on their t-shirts "Yankees suck"? Because if so, I guess we'll just have to disagree about that.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 2:08 PM CDT on September 18

Word to the kid and his mom. Stop crying... that autograph is now worth something.

The crying made it worth more. They can now tag the e-bay post with "As seen on Fox News."

posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 2:09 PM CDT on September 18

I've never understood the appeal of autographs from hated rivals.

Because kids who do that suck. And you my friend were above sucking.

posted by YukonGold at 2:50 PM CDT on September 18

But not fellating, which is all the word "suck" ever means.

posted by yerfatma at 2:53 PM CDT on September 18

Especially from a Red Sox fan.

posted by YukonGold at 3:04 PM CDT on September 18

I'd like to nominate little_brown_bat and The Crafty Sousepaw as King and Queen of the Prom.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 3:13 PM CDT on September 18

Well... uh... yeah. Is anyone here not aspiring to "most clever sweeping statement?"

Pffft. Worst. Aspiration. EVAR. (hoo hoo!)

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 3:14 PM CDT on September 18

But not fellating, which is all the word "suck" ever means.

Not to be anal, but the definitions I came up with for fellating said only "to perform fellatio on" and "to fellate".

(hehe I said anal, fellating, and came in the same post)

posted by THX-1138 at 3:16 PM CDT on September 18

I'd like to nominate little_brown_bat and The Crafty Sousepaw as King and Queen of the Prom.

In that order? I want to know what to wear.

It's tough being a Yankee fan on this Red Sox blog.

posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 3:18 PM CDT on September 18

Hard to know who is fellating whom on this thread.

Lord, I need something meaningful to do today.

posted by THX-1138 at 3:30 PM CDT on September 18

For what it's worth, I think you do a good job at it, Crafty.

posted by qbert72 at 3:30 PM CDT on September 18

It's tough being a Yankee fan on this Red Sox blog.

Naw, it's tough being a literate Yankees fan.

posted by yerfatma at 3:30 PM CDT on September 18

I'd like to nominate little_brown_bat and The Crafty Sousepaw as King and Queen of the Prom.

Come on now, it's homecoming time. Prom isn't for another eight months.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 3:38 PM CDT on September 18

Duncan's actions bring shame onto the entire Yankees organization, and as a prominent representative of the team this behavior really brings into question whether the organization as a whole has any class at all. I am utterly ashamed to be a Yankees fan today and will apply immediately for membership to Red Sox Nation, hopefully in time to vote for our fine president.

I've read my comments several times to try and figure out where you're coming from. Perhaps it's going over my head. This was my only comment toward the yankee organization:

partly because it comes from a player on a team that likes to pride itself on being the classy alternative to the red sox

Which isn't really an insult, and based at least partly on truth. Writing 'sucks' on an autograph is something that would have been more in line with Kevin Millar than Jeter. For a yankee to do it breaks somewhat with the assumptions most people have about the teams. Of course, that was a couple of years ago, and the idea that one team is any different as a whole other than the talent they bring to the game is silly. Damon is still Damon no matter what uniform he's wearing (though in his current state washed up and broken, but that's another topic).

The rest of my comment was directed entirely at Duncan, and would be my opinion if he played for the Angels, Twins, or Pawtucket Red Sox. Even in regards to Duncan I agree it's not a big deal. I'm sure Torre laughed at it and simply said "don't do it again". My basic thought was that regardless of the state of sox fans, or the mother making a bigger deal of it than she should, it doesn't make it a great idea for players (which is what this is about, not fan bases as some are trying to steer the conversation) to ad lib on autographs for 10 year olds. But it honestly doesn't matter to me. I just thought the predictable exuses of 'he's heard worse' were lazy, and the 'look at the fan base he's a part of' simply wrong.

So I fail to see where your rant is coming from. This is a thread that has one member taking a predictable jab at the sox fan base and painting it entirely as one that enjoys homophobic slurs and another that labeled the entire fan base knuckle draggers (a fan of the mets, rangers, and knicks... no bias there).

I'd probably refrain from joining red sox nation if I was you. I don't think you would last.

posted by justgary at 3:41 PM CDT on September 18

Come on now, it's homecoming time. Prom isn't for another eight months.

That's why we keep you high schoolers around, to double-check our social calendars.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 3:41 PM CDT on September 18

partly because it comes from a player on a team that likes to pride itself on being the classy alternative to the red sox

I didn't read that as an insult, but as a "huh?" I really don't recall ever hearing any member of the Yankee organization suggest that that was a part of the team's identity, and I don't think it is.

well, okay, there is the hair thing...

posted by lil_brown_bat at 3:57 PM CDT on September 18

That said, I don't care if kids hear worse, or use worse, or love profanity, or that fenway crowds chant "yankees suck", or that he'll "live", or that in 10 years he'll treasure it, or that his mom is a media whore, or that Duncan is a "ebullient" kid or merely classless, or any other assumption, it was still a bad idea. It was then, and it is now. I don't care if she's a horrible mom, or a lazy mom, or mom of the year. None of that has anything to do with the fact that you should be able to allow your 10 year old to get an autograph without having to worry what lame attempt at humor a player is going to add.

I read this, rightly or wrongly, as: "The subject here isn't the culture of Fenway or the behavior of the mom or the likely reaction of the kid or the value of the autograph or anything else you want to talk about. The subject is Duncan's behavior, which was indisputably classless and out-of-bounds."

It sounded to me like you were shutting off all other discussion and trying to put the exclusive spotlight on bashing Duncan (and somehow, by association, the Yankees -- this coming from the previous comment that you have already pulled). I don't have a problem with throwing criticism on Duncan, but it read to me that you weren't very happy with any angle that diverted from beating up on the Yankee player. And yeah, it sounded more like "Yankee player" than "my opinion if he played for the Angels, Twins, or Pawtucket Red Sox" because you preceded it with a bit of a slap at the Yankees. I thought the statement was a little over the top, and to illustrate this I went a lot over the top.

I wasn't nearly as upset about the perceived (by me) shot at the Yankees as I was by the implication -- no, really, directly stated accusation -- that I am a hypocrit. I probably am a hypocrit, but if you're going to call me on it you better have your facts straight. As I see it, my position on Duncan's actions is not evidence of any hypocricy. I even said in the thread to which you referred that I didn't see "Your team sucks" as anything worth getting bothered about.

I'd probably refrain from joining red sox nation if I was you. I don't think you would last.

I'm not sure what this means. Would you characterize this as a personal attack?

posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 4:23 PM CDT on September 18

My basic thought was that regardless of the state of sox fans, or the mother making a bigger deal of it than she should, it doesn't make it a great idea for players (which is what this is about, not fan bases as some are trying to steer the conversation) to ad lib on autographs for 10 year olds.

I don't think mixing up the autographs and having a sense of humor is a bad idea, even if everyone doesn't like it or it goes wrong sometimes. The last thing we need is more athletes spouting cliches and acting devoid of personality lest someone get upset.

posted by bperk at 4:46 PM CDT on September 18

hi folks....sorry for showing up fashionably late to the "cocktail party."

you should be able to allow your 10 year old to get an autograph without having to worry what lame attempt at humor a player is going to add

if the parent is going to "worry" about a player including the word "suck" on an autograph for her kid, then shouldn't the parent also worry about the kid hearing that very same word constantly chanted at deafening levels? how is that not hypocritical? is the written word more worrisome than the spoken (i.e. the yelled)? even if we admit that not all sox fans chant "yankees suck" or engage in that kind of talk, surely all sox fans hear it all the time. "oh no! what if he'd told little johnny the red sox STINK too! that would've been disastrous!" if the kid and his parents were yankee fans and were given the same "red sox suck" message with the autograph, would the parents have been "worried"? of course not. so to suggest that "suck" has some kind of intrinsic malevolence that folks should worry over is absurd, especially since it's one of Fenway's most popular words. (jeez, all this "suck" stuff reminds me of that classic jim mora interview....[scroll down])

...a team that likes to pride itself on being the classy alternative to the red sox

"huh?" indeed. as a life-long yankee fan who lives 10 minutes from 161st & River Ave., i can say in full confidence that the yankee organization prides itself on winning championships -- nothing more, nothing less. certain characteristics tend to attach to teams with a pedigree of winning. but saying the yankees somehow style themselves as a "classy alternative" to the red sox is wildly inaccurate and glib. for that matter, we're an "alternative" to 29 other teams not named The Yankees.

and amen to bperk: shelley's job is to play baseball for the yankees, not to help people raise their kids....the only "example" he can reasonably be asked to set is how to hit pitches out of ballparks. that's part of the problem when people turn to TV for all their answers -- surely the role models must be on there too!

posted by rootsunited at 4:49 PM CDT on September 18

I'm not sure what this means. Would you characterize this as a personal attack?

I think he meant the losing and the friggin' having to worry that if the Sox do cough up this lead, in spite of having the 3rd or 4th best record in baseball since the break, we're going to have to hear about it forever and all the losing crap comes right back into play. It's not that much fun.

And "hypocrit" has a silent e on it-- if you Spartan parents made your kids watch Sesame Street like we do in Athens, you'd know that.

posted by yerfatma at 5:20 PM CDT on September 18

I think it was hilarious. When I was a 10-year old kid I would have loved to get an autograph like that. If the mom thought it was so vulgar, she probably also home schools him and does not allow him to play with the other kids in the neighborhood. I am surprised he was exposed to all the evils at a baseball game, drinking and booing- how barbaric.
I am sure the kid was wearing his beloved Red Sox shirt when he got the autograph. He should just be happy he didn't get brushed off and got the autograph. I didn't hear about all the Red Sox players who lined up to sign an autograph for the kid. I am surprised the mom isn't suing all of them for not giving him the time of day.

I would also be willing to bet that if a Sox player wrote "Yankees Suck" they would have thought it was funny and cute.

Shelley Duncan. A 27-year-old rookie. Which means there are probably a couple of people who've posted in this very thread who can play as well as ... Shelley Duncan.
Chico when was the last time you hit a 94 mph fastball into the cheap seats with two outs and a game on the line? An athlete doesn't have to be a number one draft pick to be a good professional. I guess you probably think Ryan Howard is a scrub too, since he was a 26 year old rookie in 2005.

posted by urall cloolis at 5:42 PM CDT on September 18

I think he meant the losing and the friggin' having to worry that if the Sox do cough up this lead, in spite of having the 3rd or 4th best record in baseball since the break, we're going to have to hear about it forever and all the losing crap comes right back into play. It's not that much fun.

I'm going to speculate that if you killed off the Boston Globe "sportswriting" staff, "forever" would get a whole lot shorter, because you hear about it from them more than you do from the rest of the sports media combined.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 6:04 PM CDT on September 18

Nuts to that. There'd still be Murray Chass, ESPN, Fox, etc.

posted by yerfatma at 6:24 PM CDT on September 18

It's tough being a Yankee fan on this Red Sox blog.

Quit your whining!

/dejected Jays fan

posted by grum@work at 6:42 PM CDT on September 18

Don't you mean "whinging"?

posted by yerfatma at 7:01 PM CDT on September 18

Tough being a Yankees fan? Oh, come on. If your own internal irony meter didn't go off, then you need to take it to the shop, 'cause that bad boy's flat busted. Four World Series championships in five years? What's it been, a whopping four years since your last WS appearance, and an absolutely soul-crushing seven years since your last WS championship?

I like you a lot Crafty, and always have, but you're way too damned sensitive to be a Yankees fan. I think Gary's right. I don't think you'd cut it on this side, you bruise way too easy, and with the bizarre emotional beatings that have come with being a Sox fan this past near-century, I would fear for your delicate sensibilities. Dude, you can't even handle winning.

Duncan shouldn't have done what he did. It's funny, yeah, but it's inappropriate as hell. Do that to an 18-year-old kid, hell, even a 15-year-old, it's a kooky, fun story. Don't do it to a kid. You're a professional athlete. And, your excuses aside, the Yankees under Steinbrenner have held themselves above other clubs, even if it's just in minor ways: no earrings, no facial hair, no long or unkempt hair, and leave that jacking off in the bullpen stuff for the Mets. Duncan was wrong, and you know it, but you don't want to admit it. That's what makes you a hypocirite. In this thread, anyway.

Then again, I have no idea what kind of person you are, or what you think, or what you feel, because it's the internet. Whoopie shit.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 7:04 PM CDT on September 18

As Joe Friday use to say "just the facts mam" the Red Sox DO suck.
This lady's worried about Duncan signing the Red Sox suck, yet she took her kid to Fenway where the Red Sox fans language is the worst I've ever heard,...and with that annoying Ted Kennedy accent to boot.

posted by MGDADDYO at 7:39 PM CDT on September 18

hi MGDADDYO. Please read the Sportsfilter guidelines. Thanks!

posted by jerseygirl at 7:49 PM CDT on September 18

Duncan was wrong, and you know it, but you don't want to admit it.

There are quite a number of people in this thread taking the opposite position. In fact, the only people who seem to be taking your position are the Red Sox homers. I don't see how this is an inappropriate message, and I know lots of 10-year olds and none of them would bat an eye at this message. And, unless you can read Crafty's mind, you have no idea what he knows.

posted by bperk at 8:28 PM CDT on September 18

Avoid the clap.
-Jimmy Dugan

That's good advice!

posted by HATER 187 at 9:28 PM CDT on September 18

Tough being a Yankees fan? Oh, come on.

That's not what I said. My point was that there's a lot more Yankee hating on this site than Yankee loving, and making any point in defense of the Yankees seems to open one up to a dozen or so regulars working one over and sending one to the prom in a dress (nice dress -- strapless with an open back -- but still). No other team's fandom (at least in the baseball realm) has to withstand that kind of assault here. I don't want to be the "count the rings" type. But I'm not going to let the hate machine run roughshod unchecked. And respected longtime contributors like LBB and goddam deserve a little support for their side, even if it's from some lunatic, oversensitive Jetah-luvah.

you bruise way too easy

I think there's an impression that when I type I'm pressing a red face against the glass and shouting my words at the top of my lungs. I use no exclamation marks here. I am admittedly over-the-top sarcastic at times, but it's rare that I'm as bruised as some seem to think I am (though I admit to getting SO worked up that I forget how to spell hypocrite). And, frankly, some of the Red Sox fans here are plenty sensitive when the Sox or their fans come under the mildest attack.

I like this place. I like the Red Sox fans on this site. They are, to an individual, smart, knowledgable fans. I don't want to take it to a Yankees blog because I don't want to shut out the perspective of smart Sox (or Blue Jays or Cardinals or Cubs or Tigers, etc.) fans. Plus, it feeds the masochist in me.

Duncan was wrong, and you know it, but you don't want to admit it.

Uh, yeah, actually I did. Definitely not classy and he will get docked for it. But he's a mid-season rookie call-up -- holding the Yankees responsible in any way is ridiculous. It would be classless of the organization if they defended his actions. That's not going to happen because there is a standard on the club that not every rookie is going to understand right away. (Note: I'm not defending the standard -- it's a little more staunch than I would prefer for a baseball team, but it is consistently staunch, so that's something. On a scale, it's less annoying than the Farnsworth Rules, but more annoying than the Joba rules. And at least they're allowing a squirrel to live on their foul pole without shooting him down.)

posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 9:42 PM CDT on September 18

If the autograph was so offensive why didn't the kid's mom just throw it away?

Duncan is in a no win situation... he just signs his name, the kid takes it to school and makes fun of it ala Chico... signing "Dear Little 10 year old, hope we can still be friends despite your love of the Red Sox" is too ridiculous to imagine... "Dear kid, please let your parents be your role models" is obviously a bad idea as his mother has demonstrated that it may not be her strong suit.

Can't blame Duncan if he never wants to sign another autograph. I think its ridiculous some media person (no journalist here) gave this woman her 15 minutes of fame.

posted by cardsfan at 10:01 PM CDT on September 18

I see all of the comments as a "smoke and mirrors" reaction about the Sox choking (again). Does anyone know the Heimlich? The kid is not damaged due to it and if that is the worst that has happened to him or the family then they should consider themselves lucky. He is probably more damaged from the press hounding his family. I am sure the mother is eating up the press though (no pun intended).

Look back in time within yourselves. Would you or your parents, yes even at age 10, really be offended by this? If so you are probably looking for your first date and still wearing a diaper.

It is easy to hate a winner, sometimes easier than rooting for your own team, which disappoints you more often than not.

posted by urall cloolis at 10:06 PM CDT on September 18

I really don't recall ever hearing any member of the Yankee organization suggest that that was a part of the team's identity, and I don't think it is.

I'm referring to the whole "yankee way" idea. It's a pretty prevalent concept. I wouldn't just make it up. Of course, this comes more from the fan base than ownership, and is discussed quite a bit on yankee blogs. However, maybe it's just a small segment and I'm mistakenly painting the yankee fan base with that broad stroke.

It sounded to me like you were shutting off all other discussion and trying to put the exclusive spotlight on bashing Duncan (and somehow, by association, the Yankees -- this coming from the previous comment that you have already pulled).

Well, I was actually trying to say the opposite, and probably not doing it well. I simply meant that the act itself was probably not the best idea, regardless if Duncan is raising money for the poor of if he kicks babies. And that in my opinion most of the excuses (he's heard worse, fenway crowds chant yankees suck) had no bearing on if it was right or wrong. 70 comments in we're still getting the old "he's heard worse" excuse for the 50th time, as if that's some final blow to the idea that it was a mistake. For me, it's not, no matter how many times it's repeated.

Ironically, I agree with your first comment in the thread and your last paragraph explains my point of view better than I could write it. Yet we're arguing. I agree with what you said about a site that has intelligent fans on both sides, which is why I've never found a comment section on a team blog that I can stand, but it seems if you feel that way you would give me the benefit of the doubt that I'm not going to bash the Yankees like I'm on some AOL chat room.

I'm not sure what this means. Would you characterize this as a personal attack?

No other team's fandom (at least in the baseball realm) has to withstand that kind of assault here.

I simply meant that you're a passionate guy and you wear your heart on your sleeve. I'm reading this thread and I don't see really anything directed at yankee fans. If there's anything in this thread written about the yankee fan base worse than what's written about the sox fan base, I'm missing it (of course, most non yankee/sox fans would find us both insufferable). I don't think lbb needs to be defended. She's far more vicious in her remarks regarding sox fans than I've ever been toward anything yankee.

As far as my evil empire remark, yes, they're different. But similar still. I had never heard your take on that topic, never knew it could be taken that way. I tried to understand where you're coming from. When I was 10, I couldn't use the word suck. I know 99 percent of the members here think that was ridiculous, but it wasn't their job to raise me. So if I had been in that situation my mother wouldn't have been a happy camper either. She wouldn't have called the press, but maybe because I can understand the situation I don't immediately discard this woman's view simply because they chant it at fenway.

The last thing we need is more athletes spouting cliches and acting devoid of personality lest someone get upset.
posted by bperk

I get tired of cliches also. I get tired of hearing about athletes taking it one game at a time. If it ever gets beyond 'red sox suck', get back to me.

There are quite a number of people in this thread taking the opposite position. In fact, the only people who seem to be taking your position are the Red Sox homers.

Oh please. If you think I'm writing 5000 words because I'm a red sox homer and hate duncan you're clueless (you also overlooked yerfatma who sees no problem with it, but that would blow your whole theory out of the water).

I don't see how this is an inappropriate message, and I know lots of 10-year olds and none of them would bat an eye at this message.
posted by bperk

But you don't know that one. They're not clones, ya know.

I see all of the comments as a "smoke and mirrors" reaction about the Sox choking (again).
posted by urall cloolis

Go troll somewhere else.

posted by justgary at 10:38 PM CDT on September 18

Somehow, I feel the need to say that this whole thing blows.

Strange.

posted by THX-1138 at 10:45 PM CDT on September 18

JustGary- I know this is your site and you can do whatever you want. But to tell me to "troll" somewhere else is wrong, even for you. Try Wikipedia. You should look up the meaning and give careful consideration to its use. It is VERY derogatory. I would have expected more from you.
You are a Sox fan and as the moderator/owner of SpoFi have the power to banish me from your site, but I have not done anything other than give my HONEST opinion about how I feel Red Sox fans in general have reacted to a harmless autograph.
On Spo Fi I have been blasted for my opinions, my spelling, my grammar, blasted personally and blasted for the teams I like. Guess what, I get over it and try not to make personal attacks to anyone. I guess you only come to the aid of those that share your opinion, kiss your ass or are "regular" posters. I do not come crying to you when an attack is made. Yet you look at all the posts and only reply to this comment from me, yet none that attack me. Guess what- you can have your little world of those that share your opinions and feel like "King of the World" in your little fishbowl.
Just please do not throw around insults unless you are willing to accept the same. You can ban me if you like, but remember you started this site in a country of free speech. I have hurt no one, do not personally attack and do not expect such from the owner of this forum. It is not like your kid came to me after one of my games and asked for my autograph and I wrote "JustGary Sucks- signed urallcloolis". When that happens call my lawyer. Until then I am sure you will delete my comment and ban me, even though I have not broken your rules.

posted by urall cloolis at 11:07 PM CDT on September 18

Ironically, I agree with your first comment in the thread and your last paragraph explains my point of view better than I could write it. Yet we're arguing. I agree with what you said about a site that has intelligent fans on both sides, which is why I've never found a comment section on a team blog that I can stand, but it seems if you feel that way you would give me the benefit of the doubt that I'm not going to bash the Yankees like I'm on some AOL chat room.

Guilty as charged -- of course, knowing how freely you refer to the Yankees as "Evil" doesn't do much to push me toward that benefit of doubt.

Oh please. If you think I'm writing 5000 words because I'm a red sox homer and hate duncan you're clueless (you also overlooked yerfatma who sees no problem with it, but that would blow your whole theory out of the water).

She didn't say that all Red Sox homers are taking your position. She said, basically, that all those who are taking your position happen to also be Red Sox homers. So I say her theory is just fine.

I see all of the comments as a "smoke and mirrors" reaction about the Sox choking (again).
posted by urall cloolis

Go troll somewhere else.

And I get called out for being sensitive. Go figure.

posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 11:20 PM CDT on September 18

I just dropped by to say "Go Blue Jays!"

That is all.

posted by owlhouse at 12:09 AM CDT on September 19

If derogatory terms are the norm here, this is what a troll is JUSTGARY-

A troll is a person who approaches a board with the specific intention of stirring things up, either as a goal in and of itself or as a means of attacking the board perhaps motivated by opposition to the ethos of the board. For example, a neo-Nazi approaching a Jewish forum with the intention of attacking the members, purely because the neo-Nazi knows the forum to contain Jewish members, will be considered a troll
Attributing intent to trolls is a very difficult issue since by its very nature to call someone a troll is to already assume an intent, that they are posting only to cause problems. So once a person is called a troll they have already been categorized by the speaker as someone with a certain intention.

Many people call others trolls, few call themselves trolls, so a troll is not a self-constructed identity but rather is a category constructed via the speech act of calling someone a troll. Perhaps the more interesting question is the motivation for labeling others as trolls. Individuals so labeled find it offensive. Useful advice for dealing with someone considered to be a troll is, rather than using that term, to ask them questions such as: "What is your intent?" or other questions relevant to the discussion rather than using the ad hominem label "troll."

Trolls can be existing members of a community that rarely post and often contribute no useful information to the thread, but instead make argumentative posts in an attempt to discredit another person, concentrating almost exclusively on facts irrelevant to the point of the conversation, with the intent of provoking a reaction from others. The key element under attack by a troll is known only to the troll.

A person who retaliates (using whatever means) as a result of a misunderstanding (or as a way of rebelling against the overzealous application of rules) is not a troll.[7] A troll is a person who approaches a board with the specific intention of stirring things up, either as a goal in and of itself or as a means of attacking the board perhaps motivated by opposition to the ethos of the board. For example, a neo-Nazi approaching a Jewish forum with the intention of attacking the members, purely because the neo-Nazi knows the forum to contain Jewish members, will be considered a troll

The general element, that determines whether a malicious user is a troll or not, is the level of indignant emotions present in the person, coupled with the person's history with the forum or group. An indignant user who has had a previous normal relationship with the group is not a troll, even if the user uses methods of attack that are characteristic of a troll attack.

I am disappointed, I would have expected better treatment or a better understanding of one statement (that was VERY relevant)

posted by urall cloolis at 12:11 AM CDT on September 19

I would be remiss (and I was slow to catch it) if I didn't acknowledge that this is TBH's 100th FPP. That's 100 posts stirring up just as much trouble as any you'll find. Congrats! (You still haven't thrown up a post with "clam shot" in it, but there's probably still some quality in there somewhere.)

It's not a bad post, in a car wreck kind of way.

posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 12:28 AM CDT on September 19

of course, most non yankee/sox fans would find us both insufferable

Meh, it's fun to watch, in a car wreck kind of way.

posted by qbert72 at 12:31 AM CDT on September 19

Some people go just to watch them crash.

posted by owlhouse at 2:02 AM CDT on September 19

That's 100 posts stirring up just as much trouble as any you'll find. Congrats!

Gee, thanks. I'm especially proud of the way my "Pat Summitt Dresses Up Like a Cheerleader and Sings Rocky Top" post created a schism within the SportsFilter community that can never be repaired. Divisiveness is my life.

And, unless you can read Crafty's mind, you have no idea what he knows.

Perhaps you missed this part of my comment:

Then again, I have no idea what kind of person you are, or what you think, or what you feel, because it's the internet.

It's a funny story about a guy who screwed up by being an ass to a 10-year-old. I never said it was the Yankees' fault, or Joe Torre, or Brian Cashman, or Don Mattingly, or Crafty's, for that matter. It was an asinine thing for anybody to do to a kid, especially a professional athlete playing for one of the preeminent teams in his sport, in the largest media market in the world.

That being said, some of you were obviously the coolest damn 10-year-olds in your neighborhood, and I bow to your prepubescent awesomeness. I'm with Gary, in that 'suck' wasn't a word that was bandied about lightly in my house growing up. Obviously, it wasn't as much fun growing up in my home as it was some of yours, and that just inhales air sharply for me.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 5:00 AM CDT on September 19

I'm with Gary, in that 'suck' wasn't a word that was bandied about lightly in my house growing up. Obviously, it wasn't as much fun growing up in my home as it was some of yours, and that just inhales air sharply for me.

The word "stupid" is prohibited in my household. I am not sanitizing the world of the word. I don't expect everyone else who interacts with my kid to follow the same rules that we follow in our household. The criticism of Duncan is based on some standard that he should have known it was inappropriate for 10-year olds. Why? There is no consensus that it was even inappropriate. If it is inappropriate in your household, then deal with it in your household.

posted by bperk at 9:21 AM CDT on September 19

Hey, whoa, waitaminnit here; "sucks" does not mean "fellates."

It's shorthand for "sucks shit."

posted by Hugh Janus at 10:05 AM CDT on September 19

She said, basically, that all those who are taking your position happen to also be Red Sox homers. So I say her theory is just fine.

And every yankee fan in the thread has taken the opposite view, so I say her theory sucks.

Guilty as charged -- of course, knowing how freely you refer to the Yankees as "Evil" doesn't do much to push me toward that benefit of doubt.

I think you saw me use the word evil (not evil empire) once in a post somewhere else. I can't remember ever using it any other time or on here, I can't remember using it in conversation, and I know I've never said "evil empire" simply because it's too star wars geekish for me. I write about the yankees quite often on my site and you won't see the word evil anywhere. So I have on idea what you're talking about, or where you're getting that from, or if you have me confused with someone else. But at this point believe what you wish. Defending things I actually say is hard enough.

At the same time you complain about how tough it is to be a yankee fan and I look at this thread and see sox fans call knuckle draggers and having a base that wears t-shirts with homophobic slurs and next to nothing about yankee fans. I've asked you about that, and you've ignored me. So maybe we both selectively read what we want to read. That's the only theory that makes sense. Because we're obviously reading two different threads.

I am disappointed, I would have expected better treatment or a better understanding of one statement (that was VERY relevant)

You commented a day or so going off on sox fans and the mom and making some lame jokes about home school children. You got no response. After the sox loss last night you come back with more home school jokes and added the whole "you're mad at duncan because you're losing". This is days after the discussion started. You're the one bringing up banning. You're over reacting, just like that mom. But yes, you're trolling. You're trying to stir up trouble. If you want to talk about the great sox collapse of 2007 find a great link and post it. But don't try and get your jabs in this thread. It has nothing to do with being sensitive. I'm sorry you and crafty have trouble seeing that.

There is no consensus that it was even inappropriate. If it is inappropriate in your household, then deal with it in your household.

I've known plenty of households where the word fuck was used with ease. Every household is different, you're correct. So "fuck you, Shelley Duncan" would fly great with some families, others not. Baseball is a business. That's not good business. Which means it doesn't matter if 9 out of 10 members in this thread are ok with it, or that you object with her parenting. It's not good for baseball to say parents, deal with it. So I doubt MLB will allow this to become a trend. And they're smart not too.

posted by justgary at 11:32 AM CDT on September 19

I'd like to nominate little_brown_bat and The Crafty Sousepaw as King and Queen of the Prom.

Be careful! Remember what happened in Carrie.

Now a propos to the post, the word "suck" has been a part of my kid's vocabulary since he was in the 3rd grade. I didn't care much for it then, but it has become so common in usage that it has lost all sexual connotation. That is why I cannot understand why this mom was so upset. My feeling is that either she is attempting to shelter her kid from the real world or she is incredibly naive. In either case, seeking publicity is the wrong way to go about it. If it bothers you that much, trash the ball and get on with your life.

posted by Howard_T at 11:46 AM CDT on September 19

All I have to say after reading all this is Thank GOD it wan't Mickey Mouse who signed that autograph! Why can't Red Sox fans be more like White Sox fans? Just get drunk and charge on the field with your kid and beat the snot out of the first base coach. Autographs? what the hell?

posted by volfire at 12:08 PM CDT on September 19

Baseball is a business. That's not good business. Which means it doesn't matter if 9 out of 10 members in this thread are ok with it, or that you object with her parenting. It's not good for baseball to say parents, deal with it. So I doubt MLB will allow this to become a trend. And they're smart not too.

Do you really think that MLB will start micromanaging what players write when they sign an autograph? And that that's "good business"?

posted by lil_brown_bat at 12:11 PM CDT on September 19

Do you really think that MLB will start micromanaging what players write when they sign an autograph? And that that's "good business"?

If a league can tell their players how to dress (nba), sure. But I don't think they'll have to. I doubt most players would give that autograph to a 10 year old, and I'm sure the Yankees have already talked to Duncan about it.

posted by justgary at 12:18 PM CDT on September 19

You commented a day or so going off on sox fans and the mom and making some lame jokes about home school children.

In my first post in this thread I ragged on the mother, there was no mention whatsoever of Sox fans.

After the sox loss last night you come back with more home school jokes and added the whole "you're mad at duncan because you're losing".

Come on Gary, if you are going to call me out at least be accurate. I made exactly ONE home school joke- the one in my original post. Show me where a second one was made. I do not mind being called out, just try to be accurate.

posted by urall cloolis at 12:52 PM CDT on September 19

Some people blame their kid's behavior on music, video games or movies, when it's really up to them to be better parents. So is this woman waiting for her kid to act up so she can blame it on Shelly Duncan because he failed as a role model? Hate to tell you lady but that is your job. Alot of the pros are not role models. Ever hear of Michael Vick?

I admit that Duncan acted in bad taste, but was it really that big of a deal? Not "til Mom made it one.

A handful of people would have seen it if not for Mom looking for media attention. "Look everyone! See how crushed my son is!"
I'm sure she will want money for this tragic, horrible misdeed that this evil man caused her family and the whole nation, then auction the autograph on E-Bay.

I gotta go put my bid in.

posted by JNWV at 1:46 PM CDT on September 19

If a league can tell their players how to dress (nba), sure. But I don't think they'll have to.

I asked if you thought they will do so, not if you thought they could do so. But whatever.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 1:54 PM CDT on September 19

I asked if you thought they will do so, not if you thought they could do so.

Oh, I misread your question. To that question I say no, because...

I doubt most players would give that autograph to a 10 year old, and I'm sure the Yankees have already talked to Duncan about it.

posted by justgary at 2:09 PM CDT on September 19

I think you saw me use the word evil (not evil empire) once in a post somewhere else.

You're right, and I shouldn't have brought it up. I also shouldn't have implied that you are generally inclined to referring to the Yankees in a pejorative fashion, because you don't. And I appreciate that -- I made the comment with a touch of irony that I made no real attempt to underscore, and that was wrong.

At the same time you complain about how tough it is to be a yankee fan and I look at this thread and see sox fans call knuckle draggers and having a base that wears t-shirts with homophobic slurs and next to nothing about yankee fans. I've asked you about that, and you've ignored me.

Sorry, I didn't realize I was ignoring you. I think we are discussing different things regarding "fans." I am talking about "fans" as it applies to people who post here -- not the whole fandom of Yankeeland. There's no question that Yankees fans and Red Sox fans take the most abuse here, but the attacker/defender ratio is worst for the Yankees fans, by a very wide margin. I really shouldn't complain, I know, and around here with a few exceptions I take the jabs with the same good nature with which they were delivered. Point of fact, my initial "rant" wasn't sent with anything close to the weight with which it was received. That is certainly understandable since you can't see me smiling behind my keyboard, but geez, Gary, you're so damn sensitive, how do you survive in that Nation over there?

On the other side, you are addressing attacks at the culture of Red Sox fandom, which came about quite naturally from the subject of the post, which is about Red Sox fans. If I were in your shoes I would be getting as upset about the comments in this post as you are, and when I did I would quite likely be told what I am about to tell you now: nobody is holding you personally responsible for the behavior of all Red Sox fans. You cannot deny that there is an element of Red Sox fandom that espouses the homophobic rhetoric. No Red Sox fan who invests any time in it is going to avoid the "Yankees Suck" chant. As such, these things become part of the culture of the fandom even if they are only practiced by a vocal and/or visual minority. I don't think you can deny, either, that if somebody attends a game at Fenway there is a very high percentage chance that they are going to be exposed to these elements. It's wrong for anyone to make the leap that if you're a Red Sox fan you must be on board with these sentiments, but it's going to happen. Sometimes when people jump to the conclusion that I'm a pompous jackass it's hard for me to tell if they're doing so because I'm wearing a Yankees hat or because I'm a pompous jackass.

I know knuckle draggers. I see them every day. You, sir, are no knuckle dragger.

posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 2:24 PM CDT on September 19

You cannot deny that there is an element of Red Sox fandom that espouses the homophobic rhetoric.

You're right, I can't. I think the part that bothers me is the words "boston fan base", because in my eyes thats me. It's been part of my family since baseball began, so I must be the fan base right? It might be similar to someone accusing a yankee fan of being a fan merely because of their success, when many are in the same situation that I am. They root for the team that their father, mother, grand parents did for years. It just happens that that team has won 26 (26?) championships, but they'd still be rooting their team on if that number was zero.

Anyway, good points all. Now I must go back to burning my Gagne voodoo doll.

posted by justgary at 2:35 PM CDT on September 19

the attacker/defender ratio is worst for the Yankees fans, by a very wide margin

I would either take issue with that and say many of the Yankee fans are former active members, now lurkers. But then I'd stop and think about it and wonder if we chased them off. Hope not. And all of you people leave Chad Bradford out of this.

posted by yerfatma at 3:07 PM CDT on September 19

Hey that 10 yr old hears worse stuff than that at ol' Fenway, and could buy a t-shirt with stuff written on it just outside the park that would make a drunken sailor embarrassed. It's not like the kid never heard that kind of comment or worse.

posted by bigmickfan at 4:05 PM CDT on September 19

I would either take issue with that and say many of the Yankee fans are former active members, now lurkers. But then I'd stop and think about it and wonder if we chased them off.

yerfatma makes baby acheson cry.

posted by goddam at 4:22 PM CDT on September 19

Hey that 10 yr old hears worse stuff than that at ol' Fenway

That must be the 9:55!

posted by lil_brown_bat at 4:32 PM CDT on September 19

Jeez you gotta watch where you step in here, what with all the pissing matches going on between different posters.

And, while I had rules at my house as to what was appropriate and inappropriate behavior and language at my house these rules changed at their grandparents house. This to say that things change depending on the location and the people involved. I agree that writing someone sucks on a baseball being autographed for a 10 yr old is inappropriate. Should the mom make such a big deal out of it, no way IMO. Then again, it just might make the ball even more valuable in the future. I can see it for sale on e-bay one day, especially if Duncan does something else this stupid.

posted by Folkways at 5:13 PM CDT on September 19

what with all the pissing matches going on between different posters

It's a niche demographic.

posted by YukonGold at 6:14 PM CDT on September 19

Yankee Fans
Raising baseball's decorum coast to coast

posted by YukonGold at 6:29 PM CDT on September 19

It's why you'll never get a design job in the big city Yukon. Just don't have that classic black-on-white shot in your bag.

posted by yerfatma at 6:34 PM CDT on September 19

There's no question that Yankees fans and Red Sox fans take the most abuse here

Wild ass guess: maybe it's because they just never shut up?

posted by qbert72 at 7:07 PM CDT on September 19

Nothing says quality like Arial.

posted by YukonGold at 7:09 PM CDT on September 19

There's no question that Yankees fans and Red Sox fans take the most abuse here

There is no question that they dish out the most abuse too.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 8:36 PM CDT on September 19

Wild ass guess: maybe it's because they just never shut up?

Fair enough. I'll give it a try.

posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 9:31 PM CDT on September 19

Justgary- where are you now? Obviously not telling the long time members to keep on topic and quit trolling. Yes- the A-Rod t-shirt sale is off topic. But since we are off topic, why is that so funny? I think the dog wearing the t-shirt is cute enough, but the message is blurred. Is it (Yukon) a Yankee fan posting (doubtful) that hates a player that has been on fire this year? Or a Sox fan hoping that the Yanks get rid of a thorn in their side? If the latter is the case that is pathetic.

posted by urall cloolis at 10:32 PM CDT on September 19

If you want to talk about the great sox collapse of 2007 find a great link and post it.

Wow Gary- talk about foreshadowing- maybe you can write the article I post later- from a Sox fan perspective. 1.5 out and counting. Yes now I am trolling. I figure that if everyone else can do it and not get scolded then I get a free pass for this comment. If you are going to accuse me of baiting Sox fans then here it is.

posted by urall cloolis at 10:41 PM CDT on September 19

Hey guys!! Say, did anyone hear about that Yankees rookie that signed that kids autograph book with something like "Boston is lame, go pinstripes! signed, Sandy Duncan"? Crazy, huh?

Wonder what the baseball folks have to say about it here?

posted by THX-1138 at 10:54 PM CDT on September 19

Urali cloolis, if you have a problem with me please take it to email instead of this thread. It's on my profile page. Thanks.

posted by justgary at 11:11 PM CDT on September 19

Baseball, baseball, baseball. People are trying to keep off topic here and you are talking baseball?

posted by urall cloolis at 11:14 PM CDT on September 19

Gary- you are correct. I should have addressed my problems with you off of this forum and I apologize to you and the board. I did not intend for this to get into a "pissing match". If I have a future issue I will do it off board. Once again my apologies.

posted by urall cloolis at 11:17 PM CDT on September 19

No problem. It's kind of a weird thread. It happens.

posted by justgary at 11:20 PM CDT on September 19

Obviously not telling the long time members to keep on topic and quit trolling. Yes- the A-Rod t-shirt sale is off topic.

This entire fucking thread is off-topic. Please, spare me.

Is it (Yukon) a Yankee fan posting (doubtful) that hates a player that has been on fire this year? Or a Sox fan hoping that the Yanks get rid of a thorn in their side? If the latter is the case that is pathetic.

Never fear! Encyclopedia Brown is on the case! Let me know if I can flip to the book and find out what the answer is.

posted by YukonGold at 7:33 AM CDT on September 20

Well...back to baseball...

Wow Gary- talk about foreshadowing- maybe you can write the article I post later- from a Sox fan perspective. 1.5 out and counting.

Will you stop counting the goddamn chickens already? The Yankees are leading the wild card, and that's all they're leading right now. If the trend of the last four days continues unabated, the Yankees will win the division and the Red Sox won't even go to the dance, but how likely is that? Answer: not very. Unless things get very strange, one will win the division and one will win the wildcard, and then it's all even-steven going into the playoffs.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 7:35 AM CDT on September 20