FanDuel - WFBC

April 02, 2009

Broncos Trade Jay Cutler to Bears for Two First Round Picks and Kyle Orton: The Denver Broncos traded quarterback Jay Cutler to the Chicago Bears for two first-round picks and quarterback Kyle Orton, ESPN is reporting. Cutler has been unhappy since reports surfaced of private attempts by new general manager Josh McDaniels to acquire Matt Cassel from the New England Patriots. "Mr. Bowlen, I hope you're confident in your new head coach," Jeremy Fleming writes on Denver Sports Blog. "Since Josh McDaniels took over, your team has become much older, lost its best player and alienated many fans."

posted by rcade to football at 11:55 AM - 71 comments

I just can't believe how easily the Broncos caved. It's still offseason, voluntary workouts. He will report when he is required to do so. I am never surprised that players have too much ego, but I am really surprised that the Broncos wouldn't kiss his ass to please him. They do realize how cheap he is. They are going to end up paying a lot more money for someone not as good.

I also can't understand why McDaniels would want to get rid of Cutler for a less talented QB just because he knows him. You would have known Cutler shortly too. This probably buys McDaniels some time though since he can know blame the Broncos suckitude on Cutler.

posted by bperk at 12:15 PM on April 02

Now the report is that he never wanted to be traded and doesnt know why they are trying to move him. Jay needs to grow up. He is making himself less desirable everytime he speaks. He is a head case. I hope he ends up in Detroit just to screw him over.

posted by Debo270 at 01:00 PM on April 02

This probably buys McDaniels some time though since he can know blame the Broncos suckitude on Cutler.

I would think that the reverse is true. If the Broncos suck because they don't have a QB, the fans could blame McDaniels for driving him off.

I'm also not sure that Cutler is that much better than Cassel. Leinhart just narrowly beat out Cassell for the QB at USC. And look what Cassel did last year.

From what I understand, what Cutler was so upset about was that McDaniels told Cutler he was his QB, while at the same time trying to pull off the trade. Had he been upfront with Cutler maybe this doesn't happen.

Also, as a 32 year old first time head coach, maybe he should have simply played the cards he was dealt rather than trying to pul of a blockbuster trade.

I sense some of the Belichick arrogance in him. It's one thing if you're the coach of the decade. It's another if you're a rookie HC. McDaniels seems to be more like the BB who coached the Browns, not the BB with the Patriots.

posted by cjets at 01:11 PM on April 02

With the Broncos asking for two 1st round picks and Cutler now backpeddling on his initial announcement that he had asked to be traded, I'm wondering if this is just a matter of the Broncos calling his bluff and asking so much they know that no one is going to bite.

Cutler is decent but he is not worth two 1st round picks. IMO

posted by scottypup at 01:58 PM on April 02

I would love for Cutler to come to Detroit. I can't see the Lions giving up both of their 1st round picks for him, but he'd certainly be better than Daunte Culpepper.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 02:57 PM on April 02

Cutler is decent but he is not worth two 1st round picks

When the Bronco defense could keep opponents to 21 points or less, Cutler was 13-1. I'd take that kind of decent any day. McDaniels just guaranteed his head coaching career will be a short one.

posted by irunfromclones at 05:08 PM on April 02

I just heard that on Chicago radio that Cutler has been traded to the Bears. I thought they were just goofing around but then I heard a news break that confirmed it. Details to follow.

posted by willthrill72 at 05:24 PM on April 02

1st & 3rd round picks 2009, 1st round pick 2010 and Kyle Orton. Bears get Cutler and a 5th round pick.

posted by willthrill72 at 05:28 PM on April 02

according to FOX it's a done deal

posted by dviking at 05:31 PM on April 02

The Denver Broncos have agreed in principle to trade quarterback Jay Cutler to the Chicago Bears

posted by irunfromclones at 05:32 PM on April 02

Heard that too will, and it's all over ESPN already so I suppose it's a done deal. I don't see it helping the Bears too much. Although obviously Jay's a better QB that Orton, the Bears have no WR's for Jay to throw to, and no offensive line to protect him.

Guess we'll just see how it pans out.

posted by fadetoblack5 at 05:34 PM on April 02

Wow. It's pretty rare for a new GM to go for a make-or-break move right at the start of his tenure. There are so many ways this could go wrong for the Broncos.

I briefly entertained the thought that Bud Selig might acquire Cutler for the Brewers.

posted by rcade at 05:39 PM on April 02

That looks like the 18th pick overall and who knows what next year. Two first round picks is a lot, but I think the Bears have to be happy. They'll probably try to lock Cutler up for the long-term pretty soon. So, they are set for the foreseeable future for a franchise QB. The Broncos can go back to trying on and discarding QBs.

Now the Washington D.C. team has to kiss and make up with Campbell before the same thing happens here.

posted by bperk at 05:47 PM on April 02

Well, the Vandy man gets to wear black again in Chicago. McDaniels definitely made some rookie mistakes, but from what I can tell of Cutler at this point, you don't want him in your locker room. Get a life, son. You're playing a man's game.

I'll bet there will be some people in Chicago who do not welcome Cutler with open arms after seeing him pitch those bratty hissy fits in Denver. That's not the Chicago way.

If the Broncos show some intelligence and actually use the picks to build a better team, this deal might be viewed down the road as Eli Manning lite. The Chargers got good value from Rivers and the picks they got from NY in exchange for Eli.

Orton will never be as good as Rivers and Cutler may never lead Chicago to a championship. But maybe the Broncos end up improving their team along the way. The Bears are giving up more for Cutler than may be prudent or sensible.

Now watch the Bears invite free agent Rex Grossman back to training camp this year just for the hell of it and Cutler goes berserk when he finds out.

posted by beaverboard at 06:09 PM on April 02

Well, the Vandy man gets to wear black again in Chicago.

Chicago Bears uniform colours are white, orange, and dark navy. Denver Broncos uniforms are white, orange, and navy. Light navy perhaps ?

posted by tommytrump at 06:24 PM on April 02

My bad. I have an old TV. The Bears look like they're in black. So does Vandy's football team. That's what I was referring to. Nothing about the Denver colors.

posted by beaverboard at 06:28 PM on April 02

I know you weren't referring to the Denver colours. I just found it interesting that the Broncos and Bears have basically the same colour scheme.

posted by tommytrump at 06:37 PM on April 02

A first round pick this year, next year, and a third round pick too? Hope Chicago plans on keeping him happy, or this is the kind of move that will set them back further. Their coach better choose his words carefully. The Bears picked up Orlando Pace too? He's been a consistent Injury List All-Pro several seasons running now. Seriously, though, the Bears and their fans won't know what to do with themselves now, since they actually have a pro quarterback! Putting Orton in the trade is kind of like a baseball team making a trade and throwing in a bag of cracked bats.

posted by dyams at 06:59 PM on April 02

So Chicago bets the farm on their defense and leaderless offense that tomorrow is next year...and Denver gets what it needs for it's next to last defense to stop opponents...and maybe more since these chips are platinum. Denver should be calling Jeff Garcia right now...he's a proven product. Lot's of winners in this deal!

posted by racing_eagle at 07:17 PM on April 02

Hissy fits? I think I'd be a little hissy too if I were a Face of the Team, Franchise Pro Bowl QB in the middle of a contract who was told they were building a team around me one day, only to find out the next day that they were holding serious discussions to trade me behind my back.

That shows a serious lack of respect (and intelligence) by Josh "the joker" McDaniels and the rest of the new Bronco's football brain trust. Hissy fit? All Cutler did was rightfully call the guy out.

posted by irunfromclones at 07:22 PM on April 02

All Cutler did was rightfully call the guy out.

Rightfully? It's not Cutler's job to call anyone out, except maybe, and I mean maybe, his peers. McDaniels is not his peer. McDaniels' job is to put a winning team on the field. Why shouldn't he entertain offers? Or possible trades? That's his job. Having your QB throw a fit because his name is mentioned in a trade is, for me, enough of a reason to cut him loose and get an adult out there to quarterback your team. All pro athletes need to understand that yes, it is a sport, but it is also a business, and no one is safe or "untouchable". I've heard many, many names mentioned in trades spanning all sports, but Cutler's reaction is easily one of the most immature so far. Now he's back pedaling. McDaniels may not be satisfying his job description right now, but it seems he has quickly done something that most times is seen only in hindsight: getting rid of the cancer.

posted by BoKnows at 09:46 PM on April 02

Ok, let's imagine for a minute that you're an up-and-coming lawyer, and you're with a mid-level law firm. You've been in the business a few years, and you're winning the respect of your co-workers. You've won some big cases, and you're become know for your balls-out, intelligent work. In fact, your work is so good, you are being considered for the board of directors that runs the firm. Then let's imagine that the head of the company, who has just been chosen as the replacement for the old head man, starts talking about firing you and hiring a man that he used to pump gas and drink with as your replacement on the board. Now, wouldn't you be slightly pissed off? Or would you say, "Oh, he's just doing his job... the other guy must be better than me. I guess I will try to earn my bread elsewhere?" I think that you'd be pissed, and your trust and comfort level with your boss would be destroyed.

posted by Goyoucolts at 01:02 AM on April 03

Great. Another good quarterback who will torture the Lions twice a year.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 04:34 AM on April 03

Wow, when I heard about the Broncos asking for 2 #1s, I thought they were just posturing by putting Cutler on the trading block but asking a price that no one would actually offer. Then the whole thing would die and training camp would roll around. Everyone would have flexed their muscles a bit and things would move along.

Then they get 2 #1s, a #3 and Orton?? I realize that the Bears have been looking for a QB for some time now, and Cutler's a pretty good (and young) one, but they just spent a LOT to get him. This whole situation in Denver has been pretty ridiculous, but the Broncos have to at least be pretty happy with what they got in return. Time will tell how much they miss Cutler.

On another note, I am a little puzzled by some of the stuff that's been posted about Cutler's attitude on here. He was getting some pretty strong messages from the Broncos' brass, and I don't think his reaction was out of line. He also has no prior evidence of being any sort of a disruption to his teams. Beyond that, people skip the early workouts all the time. Not that these don't have value, but that in no way means that he won't join the team when the time comes.

posted by bender at 09:12 AM on April 03

McDaniels may not be satisfying his job description right now, but it seems he has quickly done something that most times is seen only in hindsight: getting rid of the cancer.

Okay, even if you completely take management's side of this, cancer is an extreme exaggeration. He was voted offensive captain by his teammates just this past season. Also, you can't argue it is a business when the GM/coach do what they think is right for their team, and complain when a player does what is right for his career. Now Cutler is with a team that truly values him, and has their future success locked up with his. He can get a contract extension, and make more money. It's just business, right?

posted by bperk at 09:19 AM on April 03

Let's face it. The Bears giving up a couple of first round draft picks is really not that big of a deal. They are not exactly known for their early round draft picks, are they. Cedric Benson, anyone? Chris Williams? Michael Haynes, Marc Colombo, Cade McNown. The list goes on and on. Sure, they did well with Urlacher and Olsen, but that's it. The Bears still have a compensatory 3rd round pick this year and they got a 5th round pick from the Broncos. To get their hands on a franchise-type QB, I don't think they gave up too much.

And I'm with bender, before this McDaniels uproar, I never heard anyhting negative regarding Cutler's attitude. All the sudden, he feels like he's being wronged and voicing out, and he's a petulant crybaby. I'm sure blame lies at the feet of both Cutler and the Broncos.

posted by willthrill72 at 09:33 AM on April 03

Then let's imagine that the head of the company, who has just been chosen as the replacement for the old head man, starts talking about firing you and hiring a man that he used to pump gas and drink with as your replacement on the board.

You forget the part where the law firm also gets an additional 2 cum lada yale graduates and that lawyer isn't being fired- he's being transferred to another firm where he will still make just as much money and be in the same exact position as before.

And the be more analogous, the new lawyer wouldn't be someone who pumped gas...more like top 50% of their graduating class and already have more cases under their belt than the pissed off lawyer.

Now Cutler is with a team that truly values him, and has their future success locked up with his.

Funny, the same exact thing could have been said before he was put on the trading block. From what I've heard, Cutler was adored by Denver. So, yea, it is just business.

posted by jmd82 at 10:27 AM on April 03

Funny, the same exact thing could have been said before he was put on the trading block. From what I've heard, Cutler was adored by Denver. So, yea, it is just business.

Maybe before McDaniels tried to trade for Cassel. Mike Shanahan and the city of Denver may have appreciated Cutler, but the new management sure turned on him quickly.

posted by bender at 10:48 AM on April 03

Hissy fits? I think I'd be a little hissy too if I were a Face of the Team, Franchise Pro Bowl QB in the middle of a contract who was told they were building a team around me one day, only to find out the next day that they were holding serious discussions to trade me behind my back.

Yes, hissy fit. Heck, the broncos a few years back traded the #1 CB in the NFL....even the best at their position aren't untouchable. At best Cutler is top 10 in his position and is 17-20 as a starter. What makes him think that makes him untouchable? I'm not saying Cutler isn't a good QB. But he certainly isn't good enough to warrant not even entertaining offers for him that could potentially make your TEAM better.

Fact is, Mcdaniel would not have been doing his job if he weren't listening to offers for EVERYONE. If he could have gotten a QB he thought was as good (Cassel) AND potentially additional players to help his defense, then it's his job to look into that.

Ok, let's imagine for a minute that you're an up-and-coming lawyer

You mean let's imagine for a minute that the 2 circumstances are even remotely related?

posted by bdaddy at 10:53 AM on April 03

Cutler was not a locker room cancer. Even if you think he has been acting like a cry baby this offseason, its not been an ongoing problem throughout his short career AFAIK.

What I find odd about this is that McDaniel is willing to put himself at a disadvantage right out of the gate. If Orton doesn't get the job done, then McDaniel is going to take a LOT of heat for this debacle. And I really can't see how Orton will be effective with the Broncos. He isn't going to have a staunch defense to bail him out and he doesn't have much of a running game now (certainly no one of Forte's caliber). He does have a good O-line now, but there's no way his game manager style is going to cut it in Denver.

posted by curlyelk at 10:58 AM on April 03

But he certainly isn't good enough to warrant not even entertaining offers for him that could potentially make your TEAM better.

Then why deny it? From what I can tell, that is what really pissed Cutler off. They are telling him one thing, but doing something completely different. Further, trades involving franchise QBs are rare in this league because losing one does not make a team better.

Even if Cutler, as you say, is merely a top 10 QB in the league. He is a young top 10 QB in the league. The QBs better than him are over 30 (though you can debate between he and Rivers). There aren't 25 year old QBs that are top 10 in the league.

posted by bperk at 11:23 AM on April 03

What I find odd about this is that McDaniel is willing to put himself at a disadvantage right out of the gate.

Well he didn't chose to, did he? He entertained an offer for Cassel which he didn't believe would put him at a disadvantage, but that deal never went through. Had he known he would not get Cassel and be forced to trade Cutler for Orton + picks I'm not sure he would have made this same choice. Fact is, all he thought he was doing was entertaining offers to see if any made his team better...I don't believe he ever wanted it to end with Orton as his QB entering the season.

Then why deny it?

They never did. They didn't tell him BEFORE HAND, but they never denied it afterwords.

The QBs better than him are over 30

Not all of them. Roethlisberger, Manning, Rivers, Rodgers, Schaub, Romo...are just a few that are under 30 that I think are as good as, or better than him.

posted by bdaddy at 12:02 PM on April 03

Then why deny it? From what I can tell, that is what really pissed Cutler off. They are telling him one thing, but doing something completely different.

And that's my understanding as well. If McDaniels was telling Cutler he was his QB of the future while at the same time trying to swing the Cassel trade, he was lying to Cutler's face. That can piss anyone off.

Management has the right to trade whoever they want whenever they want, but if they lie to a player's face, they can expect some blowback. Did Cutler overreact? Maybe. But I don't know how his meeting with McDaniel went. If McDaniel said "we're management and we do what we want," instead of "I apologize for lying to you. I shold have been upfront about it," then I can see why this escalated.

That's not to say that Cutler would not have demanded a trade if McDaniels had been upfront about it. But this is a rookie mistake by McDaniels and it blew up in his face.

posted by cjets at 12:26 PM on April 03

... it seems he has quickly done something that most times is seen only in hindsight: getting rid of the cancer.

Boy, it doesn't take much to be described as a clubhouse cancer these days.

New coaches get a honeymoon period, and I think McDaniels just shortened his by making this move. If Orton tanks, he's in trouble.

posted by rcade at 12:43 PM on April 03

If McDaniels was telling Cutler he was his QB of the future while at the same time trying to swing the Cassel trade, he was lying to Cutler's face.

My issue with this is that Cutler and his camp are the ones stating this. Cutler has already been shown to be less than truthful in this whole experience...for example, he says he never asked for a trade when by all accounts he's asked for a trade twice: one after Shanahan firing and another on march 10.

posted by bdaddy at 12:58 PM on April 03

Boy, it doesn't take much to be described as a clubhouse cancer these days.

I agree. I'm certainly not in Cutler's corner on this, think he overreacted, think he's acting like a big baby, think he's flat out lying on the whole subject....but even I wouldn't consider this as "cancerous". A long history of this might be "cancer", but this is the first such thing we've really heard about with him.

T.O is the bar for all cancers at this point :-)

posted by bdaddy at 01:00 PM on April 03

They never did.

The Broncos have denied reports of their trade talks with the Patriots, Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Detroit Lions. They have characterized any dialogue as "inquiries" not initiated by the team, even though multiple sources have confirmed the Broncos' interest in Cassel, who was dealt Saturday by the Patriots to the Chiefs.

Roethlisberger, Manning, Rivers, Rodgers, Schaub, Romo...are just a few that are under 30 that I think are as good as, or better than him.

You seriously think all those QBs are better than Cutler? So, he isn't even a top 10 QB. And the best offense in the AFC (2nd best in the NFL) was a mirage. The Pro-Bowl must have been a gift because he is so charming.

posted by bperk at 01:09 PM on April 03

Cutler has already been shown to be less than truthful in this whole experience...for example, he says he never asked for a trade when by all accounts he's asked for a trade twice


Yeah, I saw that as well and Cutler seems to be lying through his teeth.


My issue with this is that Cutler and his camp are the ones stating this.


But as far as this goes, I seem to recall that this was independently verified (I'll post the link if I find it). Also, McDaniel's comments seem to confirm this as well. He has said that he didn't initiate the trade, that it was brought to him. The implication being that he didn't tell Cutler because it wasn't his idea. If that's true, I think it's a copout on McDaniel's part.


ON PREVIEW: Bperk posted the link for me. It sounds like the Broncos are talking out of both sides of their mouth as well.

posted by cjets at 01:16 PM on April 03

Well he didn't chose to, did he? He entertained an offer for Cassel which he didn't believe would put him at a disadvantage, but that deal never went through.

Yes, he did choose to. For one, I didn't understand the situation as McDaniel was entertaining offers put at his table so much as he was actively going after Cassel. I could be wrong on that one. But second, these things can be done discreetly so that a rookie head coach doesn't have to piss off the franchise QB. It didn't need to be made public until there was a deal. Plus McDaniel seemed a little too smug about the fued between he and Cutler. Did anybody else see the video of McDaniel with the Cutler throwback jersey a couple weeks ago?

And I don't see how anyone can say that Cassel would be an upgrade over Cutler and make a team better. He made a good showing last season but one season isn't enough of a body of work to throw out the franchise QB. We'll see how good Cassel is for the Chiefs this season.

posted by curlyelk at 01:31 PM on April 03

Well it appears from bperk's link that McD was just entertaining offers. Still could have been a little more hush about it though.

posted by curlyelk at 01:35 PM on April 03

Cutler has already been shown to be less than truthful in this whole experience...for example, he says he never asked for a trade when by all accounts he's asked for a trade twice

Yeah, I saw that as well and Cutler seems to be lying through his teeth.

I can't find this. Do either of you have a link? I find a blurb by Peter King that says he heard that Cutler asked for a trade after Bates left. Then, I find confusing reports by Bowlen as to whether he even spoke to Cutler after Shanahan was fired.

posted by bperk at 01:46 PM on April 03

They have characterized any dialogue as "inquiries" not initiated by the team

That is exactly what happened! So where is the lie? They didn't go to the Pat's and say "we want Cassel"...Cassel was being shopped by the Pats and the Broncos asked what the price was. This has been their story from the start.

You seriously think all those QBs are better than Cutler?

As good as for some, better for others. And the answer is absolutely. 2 of them have 3 SB rings between them. Another has led his team deep in the playoffs a couple of times and is a more prolific passer. Rodgers put up very solid numbers his first year starting (4000 yards 28/13).

So yes, I believe any/all are every bit "as good as" a guy whose 17-20 in his career, had an 86 QB rating last year, and hasn't yet won a playoff game. I'm not saying he's not "good", but what about all that makes him seem "untouchable?". 15 QB's had a higher rating than him last year.

The Pro-Bowl must have been a gift because he is so charming.

The pro-bowl is a farce. Vince Young and Kordell Stewart have been pro-bowl QB's.

posted by bdaddy at 01:47 PM on April 03

From everything I've heard reported*, Bowlen tried to talk to Cutler, but his agent couldn't manage to get in touch.

* Note the ESPN-style sourcing! No possible way to blame me if it's not true.

posted by yerfatma at 01:48 PM on April 03

It didn't need to be made public until there was a deal.

Well they certainly didn't WANT it to go public. Blame the media on that one.

posted by bdaddy at 01:51 PM on April 03

Do either of you have a link?

I originally read it around the time this all started to simmer (a month or so back) so don't have that link anymore.

Here's a more recent Peter King reference to it (more recent than the one you linked to)
Cutler might regret Denver exile

Peter King: "I laughed when I read Cutler's quotes to Jay Glazer Wednesday night, the ones about him not wanting to be traded. Kid, either you or your agent asked to be traded after Mike Shanahan and offensive coordinator Jeremy Bates left the organization, and your agent asked for a trade again on March 14. Come on."

posted by bdaddy at 01:57 PM on April 03

Peter King is the only one who has mentioned that. Cutler's agent denies it. Bowlen didn't even mention that because he doesn't even remember speaking to Cutler.

As good as for some, better for others. And the answer is absolutely.

I'm not going to argue this point with you because I don't think you are being serious. Schaub was traded for a swap of picks. Cutler was traded for 2 first round picks and then some.

They have characterized any dialogue as "inquiries" not initiated by the team

That is exactly what happened! So where is the lie? They didn't go to the Pat's and say "we want Cassel"...Cassel was being shopped by the Pats and the Broncos asked what the price was. This has been their story from the start.

Where do you get this from? I can't find this. What I read is that the Broncos said that they only listened to offers for Cutler when multiple sources confirmed their interest in Cassel.

posted by bperk at 02:16 PM on April 03

That is exactly what happened! So where is the lie? They didn't go to the Pat's and say "we want Cassel"...Cassel was being shopped by the Pats and the Broncos asked what the price was. This has been their story from the start.

From Bperk's link upthread:

The Broncos have denied reports of their trade talks with the Patriots, Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Detroit Lions. They have characterized any dialogue as "inquiries" not initiated by the team, even though multiple sources have confirmed the Broncos' interest in Cassel, who was dealt Saturday by the Patriots to the Chiefs.

I believe the multiple sources, not the Broncos. The fact that it leaked to the media is evidence of that.

posted by cjets at 02:37 PM on April 03

The pro-bowl is a farce. Vince Young and Kordell Stewart have been pro-bowl QB's

Agreed. I believe Brett Farve was a Pro Bowler last year, even though he had no business being anywhere near that game.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 03:30 PM on April 03

I have a couple of things on Jay Cutler. The first is to share this from Chad Finn's "Touching All the Bases" blog on the boston.com web site:

>>As a Patriots fan, the one wish I want granted right now from the football gods is this: Jay Cutler, quarterback, New York Jets. He's like a baby Brett Favre, except with an iPod full of Dashboard Confessional songs. I suspect the Patriots had a healthy disrespect for Cutler's decision-making heading into last season's matchup with Denver, and nothing since has changed Josh McDaniels's mind.<<

The second is to pass on the link to an interesting analysis of why New England was satisfied with a lot less for Matt Cassel than Chicago paid for Cutler.

I'm not sure a 13-1 record when your team allows less than 21 points is all that much of a selling point. What is the record of other NFL quarterbacks when their respective teams have done the same? One thing that the Belichick system stresses is having a quarterback who doesn't have to win games for you, but most certainly will not lose them. McDaniels adheres to the same school of thought, and will settle for a reliable QB who will stay within his capablities. I don't know if Kyle Orton is such a player, but we'll soon find out.

posted by Howard_T at 03:36 PM on April 03

Jay Cutler, quarterback, New York Jets. He's like a baby Brett Favre,

I seem to recall that the Jets beat the Pats in OT last year. Favre's stat line: 26/33, 258 yards, 2 TDs and no INTs. Plus Favre connected on the 3rd and 15 on his own 15(?) yard line in OT to keep the drive alive and win the game.

Given that it was one of only two losses in their last 8 games (and the other was to the eventual SB champ Pittsburgh), one could say that it was the loss to the Jets that kept the Pats out of the Playoffs.

But thanks for making me feel better about the Jets not getting Cutler.

posted by cjets at 03:59 PM on April 03

Not to start a Pats/ Jets range war in a thread about the Broncos and Lions, but passing for a couple hundred yards against last year's Pats' secondary isn't exactly a resume highlight.

posted by yerfatma at 04:20 PM on April 03

One thing that the Belichick system stresses is having a quarterback who doesn't have to win games for you, but most certainly will not lose them.

Oh, give me a break! The QB for the Pats is Tom freakin' Brady, not some serviceable QB that manages games. When they had a serviceable QB, they didn't make it to the playoffs. When they had a superstar, they went to the Super Bowl.

posted by bperk at 04:22 PM on April 03

Peter King is the only one who has mentioned that. Cutler's agent denies it. Bowlen didn't even mention that because he doesn't even remember speaking to Cutler.

What exactly are you talking about? Mentioned what?

Schaub was traded for a swap of picks. Cutler was traded for 2 first round picks and then some.

Yes, because the value of trade offers ALWAYS equates to the value of players.

Where do you get this from? I can't find this. What I read is that the Broncos said that they only listened to offers for Cutler when multiple sources confirmed their interest in Cassel.

I don't see where that contradicts each other. The team could have not initiated contact for offers, but still have been interested in Casel depending on what the offer was.

Casell was on the market and actively being shopped by the Pats as many teams reported being contacted about interest in a trade. Might not Denver had been one of those teams they gave a call to? Especially seeing McDaniels's past and experience with Cassel? And might they not have proposed a trade that McDaniel felt favorable towards?

I'm not going to argue this point with you because I don't think you are being serious

You said there were NO QB's under 30 who are as good as him. I threw out a handful of young QB's that IMO are, or could be, as good as if not better him. You may not agree with it, but no need to be an ass. Of the list I gave you, 2 of those threw for more TD's than him last year, 2 threw for 4000 yards in 100 fewer attempts, 1 won a SB last season, ALL had better winning percentages and QB ratings.

Aside from the fact that he threw for 4500 yards (on an ungodly 616 attempts), what exactly on his resume makes him a slam-dunk better than any of those I listed? winning percentage? QB rating? TD/INT ratio? Oh, that's right...pro-bowls and trade package. Yea, he's got them there.

posted by bdaddy at 04:43 PM on April 03

"I'm not sure a 13-1 record when your team allows less than 21 points is all that much of a selling point. What is the record of other NFL quarterbacks when their respective teams have done the same?

wondered that myself. When I was in college, our defense had a goal each week of allowing 17 or fewer points a game. We felt if we could do that, it was almost a sure win.

I'd be interested to see what some of these other QB's W/L record is in such circumstances.

posted by bdaddy at 04:46 PM on April 03

but passing for a couple hundred yards against last year's Pats' secondary isn't exactly a resume highlight.

It's not just the couple hundred yards, it's the efficiency. 26 of 33 means a completion percentage of 79%. That's a great stat for any QB in the NFL.

And I don't want to start a range war either, but I'm not the one that opened this particular can of worms. If pats fan want to snark on the Jets, then I can remind them that Favre was the difference in that division loss to the Jets that kept them out of the playoffs.

posted by cjets at 05:03 PM on April 03

I'm surprised that the Broncos and Cutler continue to talk about the events leading up to the trade. There's nothing good that can come from either side continuing to bicker in public. The trade's a done deal.

If this was the Premiership, there'd still be a chance Cutler could return to the Broncos, a la Robbie Keane and Tottenham.

posted by rcade at 05:21 PM on April 03

OK, OK, I'm stuffing all the worms back in the can. I included the Finn comment only to show at least one attitude toward Cutler. I happen to share it, but I included it only to show that not all have a high opinion of Cutler's worth. Cutler actually passed for 168 against Patriots, with an interception and 2 sacks. This was against a pass defense that was rightly termed as "porous". That has nothing to do with Favre, whose decision making against Patriots was sound enough, but proven disastrous in the season finale against Miami.

The QB for the Pats is Tom freakin' Brady, not some serviceable QB that manages games.

You seem to forget that when Brady first attained prominence, he was the 199th pick in the draft who had been Drew Bledsoe's understudy for a little over one season. Had he been the "Tom freakin' Brady" of later seasons, Bledsoe would never have seen a snap. Brady had to learn game management, and over time, through some hard work, became the skilled performer he is now.

posted by Howard_T at 05:25 PM on April 03

It's not just the couple hundred yards, it's the efficiency. 26 of 33 means a completion percentage of 79%. That's a great stat for any QB in the NFL.

And an anomaly. The man holds the league record for interceptions in a career. You'll ruin Peter King's weekend if you start claiming he was a game manager instead of Wrangler-wearin' gunslinger. Again, I feel comfortable my grandfather could complete a pass against the 2008 Patriots. And he's dead.

posted by yerfatma at 05:34 PM on April 03

OK, OK, I'm stuffing all the worms back in the can.

Consider them stuffed.

posted by cjets at 05:36 PM on April 03

cancer is an extreme exaggeration

Boy, it doesn't take much to be described as a clubhouse cancer these days.

My point was, at least it seems to me, that "cancer" is used only after multiple showdowns/breakdowns/problems involving GMs/HCs and players. Why is it not understandable that this HC is bucking that trend and relieving the team of a possible problem before the team is turned upside down? If it turns out that Cutler becomes a problem in Chicago, all Bronco fans will suddenly switch sides and say "Yep, we knew it. Good thing we saw it coming."

I may be completely wrong, time will tell. But I think Cutler showed a complete lack of respect for his team, the front office, coaches and the Denver fans by doing what he did. I also think McDaniels is willing to take the full responsibility of either his genius or his stupidity.

posted by BoKnows at 08:25 PM on April 03

The Bears almost got him for Orton and this years 1st and 3rd picks. Then the Redskins got involved which upped the ante. Jerry Angelo decided to grow a set of balls and added next year's #1 to sweeten the deal. As a lifetime Bears fan, I am personally thrilled to welcome Jay here, it's been almost 25 years since we've had a Pro Bowl QB.

posted by wdminott at 08:29 PM on April 03

Why is it not understandable that this HC is bucking that trend and relieving the team of a possible problem before the team is turned upside down?

What's not to understand? The Broncos decided to prove who's boss by dumping a young Pro Bowl quarterback, which is a pretty weird move considering how hard it is to get one of those.

A "possible problem" might not be a problem at all. And then where will the Broncos be? I think this was a crazy decision. Pat Bowlen must have been really pissed at Cutler to approve this trade.

posted by rcade at 11:47 PM on April 03

Based on Cutler's reaction to the trade winds prior, I think the question the Broncos would have is:

Are we going to get a Cutler who is devoted to the team and is capable of having another pro-bowl year or are we going to get a Cutler who is holding a grudge, which will interfere with his game play?

Even if he is talented and a repeating pro bowl caliber player, the people closest to him didn't think he would give them his all. Which may tell more of Cutler's dedication than his abilities.

But your view could be absolutely right, he may not be a problem at all, again, time will tell.

posted by BoKnows at 12:28 AM on April 04

Insubordination.

posted by BoKnows at 09:59 PM on April 04

I find it really difficult to side with Cutler on this one. How many players, in this day, are subject to trade rumors every year? Jay Cutler responded in a way that very few people in sports do. I really do think he put the Broncos in a position to have to trade him, which is unfortunate, because he's now gone from having two great receivers to a couple of potentially viable ones. His ability to make average players great is going to be the key to him getting a long-term, big deal again.

He's 25, and so there's a ton of upside and the Bears make a great PR move in shoring up a position they've been plagued at for years. Cutler's explosion aside, he seems like a good team guy otherwise. I doubt the trade-off for them makes them a worse team in the short or long run.

The Broncos, in the grand scheme of things, need to plug a lot of holes. The trade will help them do that. They don't have a top-notch quarterback anymore but they'll be serviceable. If they can use their picks to shore up their defense, they might be competitive. It's a stretch to think they're a playoff team but in the grand scheme, they got a lot in return for a player who wasn't going to play for them again. They'll be able to plug in two or three starters on defense and hopefully stop someone from scoring this year.

posted by dfleming at 10:32 AM on April 05

From Bo's link:

"I'm so bummed. What do I tell my kids? We don't have a quarterback; we don't have a defense,'' Mendelsberg said. "This did nothing to ease my mind.''

Good Lord, man, it's not like their dog's dead. Sack up.

posted by wfrazerjr at 11:45 AM on April 05

Good Lord, man, it's not like their dog's dead. Sack up.

Yeah, who contracted Maud Flanders to write a sports column?

posted by dfleming at 02:22 PM on April 05

Yes, because the value of trade offers ALWAYS equates to the value of players.

NOBODY gets 2 #1 picks in a trade. It's fair to bring that into the comparison in this situation.

posted by bender at 08:30 AM on April 06

The Bears might want to get rid of several more draft picks, players, whatever, and get Brandon Marshall from the Broncos too. Every highlight I've seen of Cutler involves a throw to Marshall, one of the best receivers in the game today. There's not a receiver on the Bears roster who comes remotely close to the skills and ability of Marshall. Maybe Cutler will be the savior of the Bears organization, but for years now, Chicago has been the place quarterbacks go to fail.

posted by dyams at 08:59 AM on April 06

NOBODY gets 2 #1 picks in a trade. It's fair to bring that into the comparison in this situation.

While Herschel Walker would beg to differ, point taken. I would have thought Orton, another player and a first rounder would have been plenty, especially considering the Broncos were the one forcing the move.

posted by wfrazerjr at 08:46 PM on April 06

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