It crosses my mind that just about every professional athlete entering the twilight of his career is considerably larger than he once was. Does that mean all professional athletes take steroids? Did Jordan? Or Magic? What about Hammerin Hank and the Babe? They were much bigger in their final years than they had been earlier in their careers?
And we're ALL cheats. It's a great American tradition. Ask the Indians (not Cleveland). (Careful the fall from your particular high horse would kill the Jolly Green Giant.) Aren't you Canadian? It is a shame that sports has come down to cheating & laying... Thought laying was one of the "fringe benefits" myself... The early bird catches the worm. I SO wanted that joke. Diggity. Murder isn't against baseball's rules, but you don't see too many players taking advantage of that loophole (more a football thing - KIDDING). People who break the laws are punished by the courts, and people who break baseball rules are punished by the league. When someone breaks a law, baseball MAY execute some kind of punishment (by way of a character clause or something, see: Sidney Ponson). If somebody breaks a baseball rule, many lawyers run to Spo-Fi to dump on the guy, but that's about the extent of it from a legal standpoint. My point is, baseball is not in the business of, nor does it have any interest in, enforcing the nation's laws -- only it's own (though the two do sometimes coincide). IF Bonds took steroids, and there was no rule in baseball against them, then MLB would have no more impetus to "strip him of his records" or "ban him for life" than if he cheated on his taxes. If Bonds was convicted right now of certain steroid use in, say, 2001, and there was no baseball rule against it (notwithstanding justgary's new information -- I'm just stating why I think the "it wasn't a rule" argument may have been valid up to this point), I think it is highly unlikely he would be punished by MLB. At worst, short suspension and a fine, but if it was long ago, probably nothing. If there was a baseball rule against it, I think it's a different issue altogether, and MLB would THEN have to address it.
bkdet-steroids wouldn't make you better at tracking a fast ball. bonds was a great hitter before the juice. the advantage the roids gave was his ability to muscle the hits over the fence that would normally die deep in the outfield.
Aren't you Canadian? Yes, I didn't mean to infer otherwise (I do have some Yank blood, but it hardly should count)- we're cheats too, eh? I won't name a specific case, but I'll give you a hint - it rhymes with "En Johnson".
I won't name a specific case, but I'll give you a hint - it rhymes with "En Johnson". Weedy, you are not referring to that Jamaican-born sprinter, are you?
I won't name a specific case, but I'll give you a hint - it rhymes with "En Johnson". Sven Jonson?
Sven Jonson? A joke so bad you owe me dinner at the Angus Barn. Let justice be succulent!
Put an asterick next to all records generated in the 1930s by players who had a drink during prohibition. Hammer, You Can't Touch This
Shame the Bambino's mark will soon be passed by a bigoted cheater. Marital cheater, career cheater and a liar. Yes, what a shame Barry will soon surpass the achievements of that modern-day Sir Galahad, Babe Ruth.
Base Ball brought this upon themselves. This is just the end result of years of greed. Bonds will forever be known as the greatest steroid user ever. There will be no bigger asterisk that that.
Yes, what a shame Barry will soon surpass the achievements of that modern-day Sir Galahad, Babe Ruth. A HA!! You said Sir Galahad!! Let the Python references derail commence! "Look, let me go back in there and face the peril?"
A joke so bad you owe me dinner at the Angus Barn. Let justice be succulent! Holy crap, the Anus Barn! Even I have never eaten there. I know it's a Raleigh institution, but I have never had the desire to eat there. Don't know why.
The bottom line here is that if you like Barry Bonds, you will spin your arguments in favor of him and if you don't like him, well................. Personally, I don't like the guy. I find him to be aloof, arrogant and indignant. But the steroids did not make him a great baseball player, he had the skills before the roids. The roids allowed him to get some extra yardage on his hits. Baseball should allow steroids and have a roid home run distance of 800 ft. They should have a roid hall of fame too. And there should be a roid Olympics. Why do so many people care so much about a record anyway? Remember the scene from the Ten Commandments at the end of the movie. The jews turned on Moses and made a gold statue out of ignorance. The gold statue in modern day represents sports records, trophies, academy awards, etc. Its so sad. By the way, can anyone on this forum come out and say they have never cheated on anything in their life? By anything, I mean playing games as a kid, sports, work, etc...... If you can, you have my vote for the next President of the United States.
panteeze - are you Dave Zirin in disguise? :-)
Personally, I don't like the guy. I find him to be aloof, arrogant and indignant. ... as presented by the media, since it's probably unlikely you've ever actually spent any time with Barry Bonds.
Pete Rose must be feeling pretty good about himself right now!
.. as presented by the media, since it's probably unlikely you've ever actually spent any time with Barry Bonds. Grum, I can say I have never spent any time with Barry. I am basing my opinion from interviews I have seen on TV and quotes from news articles which I might add were presented by the media. I really did not know the media was controlling Barry's mind and making him speak. I marvel at today's technological advances. I feel duped now.
as presented by the media, since it's probably unlikely you've ever actually spent any time with Barry Bonds. You know, I didn't spend much time with Mother Teresa, so all those nice things I heard about her are most likely horseshit too. Sometimes, in the face of a mountain of anecdotal evidence, you just have to say the guy's a dickhead and move on.
all those nice things I heard about her are most likely horseshit too On Mother Teresa, at least, Christopher Hitchens would agree with that.
I really did not know the media was controlling Barry's mind and making him speak. I marvel at today's technological advances. I feel duped now. Did you really not think that through? You do realize that the media can control what you see and hear, right? If all you see are negative (positive) things about a person, you tend to get a skewed view of reality. You know, I didn't spend much time with Mother Teresa, so all those nice things I heard about her are most likely horseshit too. You obviously didn't hear the inside story of when she hung out with Greg Maddux for a week. When Maddux saw what she was capable of, he weeped in fear.
The media are masters of the Jedi Mind Trick...
Did you really not think that through? You do realize that the media can control what you see and hear, right? If all you see are negative (positive) things about a person, you tend to get a skewed view of reality. Wow, and I thought the drugs were skewing my view of reality. Thanks for clearing that up for me all wise and knowing grum. By the way, have you spent any time with members of the media? You surely must have based on the media bashing your slinging.
owlhouse, you beat me to it. Such an odd person for Hitchens to have a hard-on about.
By the way, have you spent any time with members of the media? You surely must have based on the media bashing your slinging. Are you trying to be funny, because it's not really working out for you in this instance. Everyone "spends time" with the media if they watch TV, read a newspaper, listen to the radio or visit a website. I'm not "bashing" the media, I'm simply stating a fact. Unless you actually run a media empire on your own, you don't get a say in what is presented to you. It's entirely controlled by other people and the choices made on what you see/hear are not yours. Examples: cute white girls go missing, and that's all you'll hear about for days on end. Shark attack in the early summer, and suddenly it's an 'epidemic' and we hear about them all the time. Information about a government coverup, and half the media plays it up to the hilt and the other half buries it on the "back page". Genocide in Darfur, and..well...none of the major media outlets want to talk about that, now do they?
grum, you're threading dangerous waters here, talking about a genocide to support your view that maybe Bonds is a nice guy after all. You've won the statistical proof debates many times over. Maybe it's time to let go of the "is Bonds an asshole or not?" debate. Does it really matter that much?
So you support the current Sudanese administration?
Oh how the postings here evolve!
grum, you're threading dangerous waters here, talking about a genocide to support your view that maybe Bonds is a nice guy after all. Yeah, I'll admit I'm walking a bit far out on the pier, but it was more for the "media controlled viewpoint" angle more than the "Bonds is a dick" angle. It was the most extreme version of "uncovered" news I could think of at the time. I guess my "defence" of Bonds' "assholishness" might stem from the fact that he seems to get a lot of heat from the press/fans for things that other players do without problems. Wait, I think I can narrow it down even more. I think Rick Reilly is a real dickhead for his hatchet job pieces he does on Barry Bonds. I'll finish this by saying that I think that Bonds probably is an asshole to some people, but that the media really overplays (or feeds it, even) more than they should.
OK Grum, you don't like the media and I don't like Bonds. Don't use my comments as your pulpit to preach to us your disdain for mass media. The media did not influence my opinion of Bonds, I can make my own decisions. And I don't have to spend time with Bonds to have an opinion of him, an opinion that can be good or bad.
Barry and I were sitting up last night playing cards, smoking Krakatoa cigarettes he got from some guy named Greg, and drinking Hennessey straight out of the bottle...I asked him what he thought about this whole mess, and he said you guys should just chill the fuck out. Then we called some hookers.
"assholishness" I like that, grum. Can you use that in other forms, too? Like maybe "The Royal Penis is clean, your assholishness." That is awesome! And for the record, the media does have a very influential impact on everybody's thought process. They have the ability to cause outrage on a whim, and they can glorify at will. Just look at what they did to this thread. And Bonds is still a dick...
Jim Rome says Barry is guilty. For the record I think Jim Rome is an dickhead. Also for the record I agree with Jim Rome about Barry. :o)
So you support the current Sudanese administration? Nice!
The media did not influence my opinion of Bonds, I can make my own decisions. And I don't have to spend time with Bonds to have an opinion of him, an opinion that can be good or bad. If you didn't get your opinion from the media where did you get it from? Unless you've met Barry then the only contact you've had with him is generated by the media.
Someone said. "It's not (steroids) or wasn't cheating before. It is now. Since 2002. I think Babyface owes Pujols at least 2 MVPs for 2003 & 2004. Barry Bonds is one of the biggest Jack-wads ever to play baseball. I think every player in the top 5 of any Baseball Stats should be tested every week. I think Bonds should be checked everyday this year. I mean if he's not cheating he should hit 50 Home runs easy. We can see how he does without the DOPE! I hate cheaters! Even our Brother Hammering Hank thinks Bonds is a joke. "I won't be at 755 or 756." Said Hank Aaron in 2005. Hank also said "I don't mind losing this record. That's what Baseball is all about. But to lose it to someone cheating really hurts."
If you didn't get your opinion from the media where did you get it from? Unless you've met Barry then the only contact you've had with him is generated by the media. So if I see a clip of Barry speaking on tv that means the media influenced me? Does the media tell Barry what to say?
So if I see a clip of Barry speaking on tv that means the media influenced me? Well they did ask him the question and edit the clip so yes they did influence what you saw. If you want to ignore the fa... nevermind.
