I am an American who grew up watching baseball and football, but playing youth soccer. I have remained a huge fan of American sports, but over time, I have become a bigger and bigger fan of soccer. Soccer is a fantastic sport due to its simplicity. Compared to the American sports of baseball, football and basketball, soccer is near anarchy. While those sports have huge rule books, the official FIFA soccer "laws of the game" is a tiny pamphlet. Now, that might sound un-american in itself, but think of the American Constitution as an example. While other countries have super complex documents, the US has a simple, straightforward, yet ultimately broad document that is more about what the government can't do, rather than how citizens are to behave. Soccer is like that. Simple, full of improvisation, with fairly little input from officials. For my money's worth, the reason why Americans can not get into soccer has nothing to do with whether it is boring or not (personally I find the sport fascinating). Rather, I think it has more to do with American statistics based sports culture. Think of out sports; there is a stat for everything. Everything can be measured and mathematically analyzed. We enjoy that. Hell, I enjoy talking about Albert Pujols' OPS or Randy Moss' yards after catch. Soccer on the other hand, has relatively few stats. Sure, you can count goals, but how do you statiscally analyze the value of a Claude Makalele (for those of you uninitiated, he is the best defensive midfielder in the sport)? But lets think about boring sports for a moment. Baseball, as much as I love it, is horrendously boring. It moves at a snails pace, has little direct interaction between participants, and has a commercial break every 5 minutes. We love baseball because we grew up with it, not because it is so much fun to watch. It becomes fun as we become engrossed in the culture of the sport. If you don't know all the tons of rules, baseball is impossible to follow. Think about cricket as an example. Do any of you not part of the Commonwealth have the foggiest idea what the hell is going on? But, see this is the hope for soccer in America. Soccer, not baseball, basketball or football, is the most played youth sport in America. Every year more and more kids grow up with the sport, much like myself. While they may continue to enjoy American sports, growing up with and understanding soccer will lead to more people loving the sport. The NASL couldn't last because there was no base, but the MLS has lasted and is steadily growing due to these young fans. For those of you who don't like the sport now, you likely never will. But I predict that over time there will be fewer and fewer like yourselves.
These soccer fans are getting upset with us for asking what is so great about their sport. If it is so great i would think they would jump at the chance. I could start a wnole blog about what i love about football. Baseball too. If you're saying the sport sells itself, clearly it does'nt or we wouldnt be having this conversation. I joke about soccer, but i do respect that it is the most popular game in the world. I assume that there must be a reason for that, so soccer fans, here is your chance. Make your case. Otherwise, im just gonna assume you love it because you always have, and if you weren't born into it it, you never will love it. If that is the case, then no, it will never catch on in the states. i sincerely want to know what is so great about it. so please drop the defense mechanism, and promote your sport.
eli, don't you think that as more and more kids who grow up playing soccer get older, it will become more prevalent? In my opinion, that just makes sense. That said, I never played, and only watch during the cup or Olympics. (Also in my opinion, no fan of any sport should ever have to justify (promote) their love of a sport to anyone.)
Every year more and more kids grow up with the sport, much like myself. While they may continue to enjoy American sports, growing up with and understanding soccer will lead to more people loving the sport. The NASL couldn't last because there was no base, but the MLS has lasted and is steadily growing due to these young fans. Those that dislike soccer point to youth participation not trnaferring to a braoder adult fan base. Those people probaly have not played the game and probaly seldom attended any games that their kids participated in. The number of youth teams have increased something like 10 fold within the last decade, so much so that playing fields are difficult to come by and have to be scheduled well in advance, even when those fields have many playing time time slots available. The number of adult leagues have increased four to five fold. It is not a matter of whether soccer becomes the top USA professional sport, it is just a matter of when that happens. I say that it overtakes baseball within the next decade and pulls even with basketball in terms of fan base. American football will be harder to overcome, but as more people understand the beauty of soccer, it will ultimately overtake american football. There is nothing in any of that to be affraid of, all sports will continue to be played and have their fan base.
If you're saying the sport sells itself, clearly it does'nt or we wouldnt be having this conversation. I joke about soccer, but i do respect that it is the most popular game in the world. You see how you basically answered your own question about it selling itself. Soccer was invented (for most intents and purposes) in Britain. Now see where it's popular. Now try to explain this whole idea of "you only like it because you're born into it and can't defend it". Try the Chinese first. Then move onto South America. And I don't care if you like or not - of all the sports in the world it needs your fandom the least - but I do take umbrance against people professing logic where there is none.
These soccer fans are getting upset with us for asking what is so great about their sport. If it is so great i would think they would jump at the chance. Soccer requires exceptional fitness, great balance and limb control, a brilliant sense of timing, excellent anticipation of events that have to be reacted to in a split second if they happen, excellent mobility, great acceleration, and a great sense of position on the field of play. The individual battles among players on the pitch are part of a continum of battles taking place all over the pitch. Dangerous players are fronted one on one by an opposing player, but constantly shadowed by one or more additional opposing players. Those are the features that I love about the game. As I wrote, I played football and basketball as a kid and only started to play soccer as an adult. I compare soccer play to what happens between a wide reciever in football and the defensive backs, a striker tries to break down a defense in soccer just as a wide reciever tries to break down a defensive backfield. The defensive midfielder in soccer is equivalent to a strong safety in football while the soccer offensive midfielder is akin to a football quarterback.
And no people who play soccer are not gay, what about football players like quarterbacks and running backs who look at the offensive blockers behinds. Just thought I'd point out there's a critical comma missing in the first part of that sentence. I doubt Scars believes all soccer players are gay. US soccer is doing ok and extremely talented players have migrated into the sport. During the recent past (10 years ago), only a couple members of the US team played in elite European leagues, now something approaching 1/2 - 2/3 the men's squad play in elite or second tier leagues across Europe. I don't feel there's anything wrong with top American players going to Europe to play in the best leagues and making the most out of their talent, but I think that is one of the main reasons that soccer isn't popular here. Soccer is played by more youth than any other sport in America, but when the elite of those youth are ready to go pro, they head to Europe. From there, the only live events we can see them at is if their club tours the states, or national team matches. We don't generally support foreign pro leagues. Japan has proven to have highly talented baseball players, yet not many people here care about Japan's pro baseball league. Same thing goes for Euro basketball leagues. Even with the added exposure to Euro league soccer on Fox's soccer channel, I don't believe support for those leagues will catch on here. I agree that the quality of MLS has improved over recent years. As it's reputation grows as a viable professional league, so will soccer's popularity grow.
eli, don't you think that as more and more kids who grow up playing soccer get older, it will become more prevalent?...Also in my opinion, no fan of any sport should ever have to justify (promote) their love of a sport to anyone To the first part, hawk, no i really dont. Im not saying that the popularity wont grow at all, but i think so much emphasis is on football, baseball, and basketball (and hockey in the northernmost parts of the country) that even as these kids who play grow up, for the most part they will primarily support other sports as a spectator. Having said that, i do think that with the rise in the latino population in this country, especialy the first generation immigrants, the popularity will grow. But those arent new fans. they are people who braught their love of the game with them. But ammong people who have lived here for generations i dont think soccer will ever rise into the top three. To the comment about justifying, i think you're misreading me. im not asking the question to be confrontational. I love sports. If im missing a great sport, id like to know why its so great. It isnt a matter of justifying anything. Soccer is the most beloved sport on the planet earth. That requires no justification. Certainly not to a 28 year old who is just now getting a serious start to his college education, in an indiana town who's entire poplation could go to a texas tech game and Bobby would still be pissed about attendance. But i digress. My point is not to degrade soccer. I just want to know what it is that im missing. I can look at golf and say i dont like to watch this because...then write a laundry list of things i dont like. With soccer, there is nothing i particularly dislike, there just isnt anything i particulaly like either. so again i ask, drop the defense mechanism and explain to me like im a 3rd grader, (with the sports IQ of a 28year old fanatic) why should i want to watch soccer?
I don't really understand why there are so many kids that play soccer in the U.S., but that doesn't translate to adult soccer fans. My best guess is the lack of continuity in the U.S. professional leagues. When I was growing up, lots of kids played soccer and kids loved to watch the Rowdies (the Rowdies arrrrre, a kick in the grass). By the time I was grown, the Rowdies were gone. In the area I live now, I'm not a fan of the local teams. But, my daughter is learning to play soccer, and I have taken her to D.C. United games. Hopefully, they will still be around when she is grown. Otherwise, it is difficult to get the fan loyalty which is what makes sports really popular.
Soccer fans, look at cave mans thread. This is what i was asking for. Thank you caveman. While i am not yet sold, i will watch a soccer game and look for those things. Maybe then i will have a better appreciation for it. By the way, whoever said "soccerplayers are gay", seriously dude, using gay as an insult, doesn't say much for your credibility. For that reason, im not scrolling up to see who it is. Im just saying for future reference, think of a better insult.
and only watch during the cup or Olympics. This could be part of the problem. No matter what the sport, the neutral fan wants to see the best competition and the best players/teams. I think the best football is played at the club level. Sure Brazil, Spain, Argentina, Portugal play beautiful football, and the rival games are must-see. But on a whole I think the Champions League is a better competition. The start of the knock-out rounds next month in particular is the best sporting competition on Earth. Following closely behind are 1st tier domestic leagues with a 'everyone plays everyone' format and the possibility of being dropped or promoted from the league. As a semi-casual fan I'm sure hawkeye and others like him do not really have the opportunity to see these games or understand their context. If FSC and Setanta were available on basic cable packages growth of these leagues would soar. The other major obstacle is the rejection of the draw. People in America just do not respect a drawn competition. American soccer leagues have gone to great lengths to supplant the draw with obscene endgames. But the draw is an important part of football historically and tactically. It can't be removed. The idea that a team will go into a match and WANT to get a tie is just too foreign for most.
I realise, of course, that I am asking for trouble... Kudos to owlhouse, who has in his own way staged a coup of us SpoFites. By labeling a soccer thread as "culture" he manged to get a 40+ post thread about the beautiful game. A rarity among a constant barrage of 'lets debate the on base percentage of the American League for the third time this week' dailies. Had he chosen the more common approach, and put this under "soccer" it would just be me, him, and WC'02 in here agreeing with each other, again.
I don't really understand why there are so many kids that play soccer in the U.S., but that doesn't translate to adult soccer fans. My best guess is the lack of continuity in the U.S. professional leagues. I disagree that youth soccer has not generated adult fans. I think it most certainly has, but you are attributing the number of fans you expect to see to the number of youths playing soccer NOW. To get a more accurate picture, you should look back at the numbers of youth players who stuck in the sport for at least 5-10 years from 20 years ago. These people, who are now taking their kids to MLS games, are the adults you are looking for. This current generation of players, which is producing some amazing talent such as Jozy Altidore, Maurice Edu, Josh Bornstein, etc., is also producing more and more fans. The MLS will likely never be as big as MLB or NFL, but they have also been here for much longer. Soccer has only really been prevalent here for 20 years or so. Also, the fact that the MLS will never be a truly world dominant league, like the NBA and MLB are is a factor. But in time, the talent pool in the MLS will get better, and the number of fans will increase to a point where soccer will no longer be considered a fringe sport.
Yeah, there's not a lot of soccer action, other than kids club-level here in Kansas.
Well, at least the author recognizes that the likes of Rome and Glapski don't really speak for an entire nation. I'm not a soccer fan. I played as a kid and loved it, just don't care to watch it. However, I can still recognize what would draw one to it, that it has tremendously talented, highly trained atheletes competing, on many occasions, in a truly worldwide competition. It seems quite simple-minded to say that, just because you don't understand or appreciate something, nobody else should. That's what neanderthals like Rome and Glapski are doing (with apologies to any Neanderthals out there.)
I don't really understand why there are so many kids that play soccer in the U.S., but that doesn't translate to adult soccer fans. My best guess is the lack of continuity in the U.S. professional leagues. See my rant above about the US TV networks being corporate whores. For everyone who says WE need to convince them that soccer is worth their while... Explain to me why you love your wife/girlfriends/husband/
boyfriend, because frankly I think they are ugly. :)
To the first part, hawk, no i really dont. Im not saying that the popularity wont grow at all, but i think so much emphasis is on football, baseball, and basketball (and hockey in the northernmost parts of the country) that even as these kids who play grow up, for the most part they will primarily support other sports as a spectator. I think there's something to this. Sports fandom in the United States has become not just a spectating activity, but also a consuming activity. It's been argued that the limiting factor in the development of significant fan bases for anything other than MLB, NFL, NBA and NHL is the finite amount of fan dollars (and, you could say, hours that a fan can sit in front of an idiot box, but we seem to constantly find ways to expand this despite the basic laws of physics). I find that argument plausible, although I don't much like what it says about the type of "fan" we typically produce.
Agreed - there are only so many hours to spare. The truth is for soccer to become one of the big spectator sports, it has to replace one of the existing ones.
Even with the added exposure to Euro league soccer on Fox's soccer channel, I don't believe support for those leagues will catch on here. And I think that the simple fact that Fox has a soccer channel with revenue coming in from advertisers shows that it already has caught on here in the States. elijahin24 Might I suggest you come to the campfire one day when there are a few of us from around the world watching a match and chatting live about it at the same time. I believe you would learn more there in 15 minutes than you could with all of us explaining it to you in here.
I am one that predicts that soccer will overtake baseball and/or basketball in popularity I dunno about baseball but basketball will probably be surpassed by soccer soon. I don't how it is in the rest of the country but in the metro NY area the Latino and Eastern European populations are booming and with that so is the interest in soccer. At my job (which is mostly staffed by Dominicans and El Salvadorians) we watched the tournament played between every team in the Western Hemisphere and this is while baseball season was in full swing. Soccer is the Marxist concept of the labour theory of value applied to sports Stephen Moore is so biting off of Chuck Klosterman with this statement. For more on Soccer=Communism check out Chuck Klosterman IV.
Elijahin, better yet, watch a big match in a pub with a knowledgeable fan... My bet is he or she won't mind any questions thrown their way if you are truly curious. (I actually had to do this with baseball for a couple of Germans a few years back... it really heightened their appreciation of the game beyond the beer drinking/people watching aspect).
Oh, only 16 hours or so until Saturday's kickoffs! C'mon you Gunners! In an interesting side note, did anyone else see that Fulham may look even more like the US National team as they seem to be signing Eddie Johnson (which would be American number 5).
Gooners? Come on you Blues!
this is 2008, we do not need to use slurs
trox: I worry. We have such trouble with lower table teams. Is FSC showing the match? I get up early on my days off to watch! Come on Arsenal!
the finite amount of fan dollars (and, you could say, hours that a fan can sit in front of an idiot box, but we seem to constantly find ways to expand this despite the basic laws of physics DVR how I love thee. I woke up before kickoff of the early game last weekend. Turned the TV to the pregame and hit pause. Showered, began a modest 'honey-do' list, walked the dogs, hit play. By half-time, after FF through commercials and bullshite, I was caught up to the live broadcast. Paused. Watched the entire ManUre v Newcastle match (almost all, I stopped at five-nil feeling slightly nauseated). Restarted NFL playoffs sans commercials while the next game just started to record. By the start of the 3rd q of the Pats game I caught up to the live feed again.
C'mon trox, thats not even fair! I could watch figure-skating if i could do it in a pub, while getting liqured up with some drunk fanatics! Anything can be fun under the right circumstances! Does St.Louis have a team? Thats the closest major city to me. If anyone is a fan from the StL area, let me know, I wanna drink and learn to love soccer. (Oh shit dont anybody tell my wife. the last thing she wants is for me to take on another sport!)
C'mon trox, thats not even fair! I could watch figure-skating if i could do it in a pub, while getting liqured up with some drunk fanatics! Dude...when was the last time you walked into a pub filled with drunken figure skating fanatics?
Hypotheticaly, lbb.
elijahin24, I don't think I've ever linked to one (or 3) of my posts. I don't know if these posts will mean anything to you, but I'm throwing them out here per your request. Get ready...these are looooong posts..... I Love Soccer
l_b_b: you owe me a new monitor!
Does St.Louis have a team? There's no MLS team in St. Louis (yet). There will be a women's team in the city when the new pro league starts next year (but then again it's hard enough to get fans of the men's game to watch women play so I'm not even gonna go there). I'm guessing Kansas City would be the closest team to you.
Don't even get me started on the womens game...
Of all the criticisms related in the article, the ones that are funniest are the claims that football is Communism, football is socialism... Let me see, which sports have player unions, owners' cartels exempted from antitrust laws, salary caps, compulsory drafts, limited numbers of teams, no promotion/relegation (ensuring the in crowd stay the in crowd irrespective of merit), where stadiums are built on the taxpayer dime; which sport flourishes in a brutal free market for players and clubs, where failure means elimination from the top tier, where success means entry to ultra-lucrative tournaments, where stadia are funded by clubs that play in them, where saw, naked social Darwinism is a constant, grinding force on players and clubs. I'm sure as hell not describing mainstream US sports in the latter, am I?
Ah, the sweet smell of a warm summer afternoon, the wind softly blowing through the trees and running across the centerfield grass kicking a soccer ball around with my friends. Now, more than ever, I look forward to that moment. How long until summer gets here?
"In Latin America the border between soccer and politics is vague. There is a long list of governments that have fallen or have been overthrown after the defeat of the national team." -Luis Suarez "Football is the ballet of the masses." -Dmitri Shostakovich And don't forget all the drama down in Ivory Coast... I'll see if I can find a link for those who haven't followed it. I'm impressed by all the Arsenal support!! Gooners for the Cup!! And LLb, we have had our differences in the past, but let me say this: Bloody excellent post!! Thank you.
Here are the few I found... Enjoy!! Jailed Peace Drogba scores another winner
Personally, I find soccer-phobic attitudes disturbing, in that they're usually quite irrational. So you don't like the sport -- so what? Don't play it. Don't watch it. But announcing to the world that you don't like a sport that you are not compelled to watch or play seems silly. Well I guess I'm silly then. I tried to watch soccer on tv and well lost interest fairly quickly. I will tell you that watching my son play in grade school was more exciting (probably had more to do with him than the sport) and enjoyed cheering his team. Soccer-phobic is not the right term to use for most people who don't like the sport. People who don't like soccer are not picketing to make the sport illegal or anything. I don't see anything wrong with expressing an opinion about liking soccer or not. If soccer becomes a huge sport in the U.S., its ok with me, after all I don't like to watch NASCAR either. Maybe if I went to a live soccer or NASCAR event I might change my mind, but I have baseball, hockey and to lesser extent, football to occupy my time.
I've got an idea. Let's modify soccer to fit American tastes. With a few modifications, like running with the ball, throwing, tackling, blocking; Americans would love it. We'll call it football.
It's been said many times, if you toss a ball to an American child, they will try to catch it, a child from most other countries will try to kick it. I never appreciated soccer (football) until I moved where it is the number one game. The enthusiasm of their fans is contagious and the more you watch the more beautiful it is. To watch Tom Brady throw a perfect pass 50 yards to Randy Moss on the dead run is beautiful, to watch the same thing done in soccer with their feet is amazing. I believe each player in soccer has to have a much broader skill set than most American sports. They might all be called 5 tool athletes, run, jump, kick, head, and slide to defend, and maybe more.
Phew. That didn't turn out too bad, did it?
Arsenal/Fulham is on FSC and I am sitting alone around the campfire. Join me?
Thanks for keeping me company goddam! GO GUNNERS!
Nice win over Fulham...
for those who were saying it is just too boring to watch, I have a challenges. If you get the Fox Soccer Channel, check out the indoor soccer games on Friday nights Indoor Schedule. To the soccer purists, this may be the equivalent of arena football but at least maybe it will give you a chance to see the game in a more action oriented manner. The indoor game has more similarities to hockey - 6v6, boards and sub on the fly - all lead to more action and scoring. It took me a while before I really got into watching 11v11 on TV. It is definitely a sport that is better live where you can get the bigger picture. Plus I find the MLS teams play at a much more physical level in the playoffs (and unlike other sports, I can actually afford and find MLS playoff tickets). As far as overall popularity of soccer, we have an over-the-hill league in MA . There are literally hundreds of teams and there is even an Over 60 division. There are many indoor soccer options allowing us to play year round. I played American football in high school and college, and then touch football for 10 years after that. Soccer is a great froum for aerobic excercise and fun. I also find it much more physical than touch football and basketball.
I like watching soccer for a few good reasons: The clock is always running. In a lower-level game this can be a bit frustrating, where the players often lack the ability to keep the ball in play. But in top-flight soccer, the ball is kept in and the game unfolds and you see a consistent flow of tactics and gambits that delights both the eye and mind. The coach prepares the team for the game, but has little control over what happens during a game beyond substitutions, general instructions, and the halftime speech. This means that the players have to understand what's going on, recognize situations as they develop, and react in a way that not only furthers their aims but is understandable to the team at large. I find satisfaction in seeing a drilled action seem second nature and knowing that coaches had everything to do with the fact that the player had the right reflex or intention, but have no control over his actions during a game. I also find soccer interesting on a global level. It fascinates me to see a game played in so many different styles, so many different places. Beyond some of the obvious differences based on average height or climate or altitude, there is a wide variety to the tactics and training and mindset of the player depending on nationality. That some leagues, stacked with foreign players, still evince a national style, makes this deep truth richer for me, and encourages my interest in different peoples off the field as well. I like that the soccer field is big, and that the players don't wear much to protect against each other. Of course, the diving is ugly, but every sport has its unseemly abuses, like time-outs to ice the shooter/kicker. Doesn't seem that bad, does it? Doesn't make it sportsmanlike, either. I think some of the disdain soccer feels in America may come from the fact that American football doesn't have a women's version. I don't think it should, or at least that's not my point here. The point is that a lot of American boys grow up playing football, and if they had athletic girlfriends (or knew any athletic girls), they often played soccer. Same with field hockey, played by men many places, just not here. And I'm not here saying men don't play soccer, or that soccer actually is a women's sport. But there are a lot of American guys who have seen it with their own eyes: there's football, played only by men, and soccer, played by everyone. Baseball players commonly have a similar relationship with soccer players, but their mistrust of soccer is often also rooted in nationalism and the sense that any summer pastime other than theirs is unamerican. Of course, tossing these generalizations around is utimately as false as anything, but that makes it about as true as anything, too. My reasons for liking soccer, above, are far more solid than my speculative and fanciful musings on sports psychology.
Soccer-phobic is not the right term to use for most people who don't like the sport. But it is the right term to use for people who feel the need to jump into a thread about soccer just to say how much they hate it. (as I've already explained above, this thread is in a slightly different category)
I also find soccer interesting on a global level. It fascinates me to see a game played in so many different styles, so many different places. Beyond some of the obvious differences based on average height or climate or altitude, there is a wide variety to the tactics and training and mindset of the player depending on nationality. That some leagues, stacked with foreign players, still evince a national style, makes this deep truth richer for me, and encourages my interest in different peoples off the field as well. Absolutely. Love it.
Yeah, thirded.
Absolutely love soccer too! The USL (uslsoccer.com) is actually a more fun league to watch than the overpaid and commercialized MLS.
the overpaid and commercialized MLS. That's a joke, right?
I think some of the disdain soccer feels in America may come from the fact that American football doesn't have a women's version. Umm, the Pittsburgh Passion went 12-0 this season winning the championship of the Independent Women's Football League.
Hugh, beyond the IWFL, the sadly defunct WUSA, there's a new top flight professional league debuting soon (Mia Hamm playing the MJ part in their logo) and the fact that the US Women's National Team has won more hardware overall than any other national team.
I'm a little confused; the IWFL is a women's gridiron league, and the WUSA is a soccer league.... I'm saying for high-schoolers there is women's and men's soccer but only men's football. This may have something to do with the way football players (and ex-players, and die-hard fans) view soccer. There's women's gridiron in America the way there's men's field hockey in America. Super-niche sports so far from the mainstream that even sports diehards don't know it exists. I'm all for it, but I don't really think it means American girls play American football. But that's not what I was on about.
