Make that fewer than 10 games per year (141 wins over 15 years). True, true. Of course, he had fewer than 10 starts in three of those seasons and fewer than 20 in three others, but hey, math is math. He did amass nearly 2,500 strikeouts pitching for pretty bad teams and won 20 games in a season his club only won 76, but, you know, whatever. You don't know him, so that's that. Your airs of authority, in my opinion, were implied by your rather clumsy rhetorical claim that race drivers aren't athletes, which you followed up by stereotyping their fan base in a pretty derogatory and bigoted fashion. My question was rhetorical, too. I'm not much of a racing fan, but I expect you'll be hearing about it all the doodah day from those who are -- in the meantime, you might want something to read while you wait for your beating.
Not sure when this list was written, but it seems a more inclusive list. It even includes Christy Ring as a possible 10, which probably means that an Irish person was involved, as I don't think a hurler from the 40's & 50's is all that well known outside Ireland. However great we all know that he was.
WTF? No Maradona at 10, and no Cruyff at 14? That's when I stopped reading.
in the meantime, you might want something to read while you wait for your beating. You are the wind beneath my wings.
I think the reason I'd pick Moon over Plante is that Moon was a barrier-breaking athlete. What barrier?
The barrier for a black QB to play in the NFL. He wasn't the first, but he certainly faced barriers. He went to the CFL to get an opportunity to play QB because the NFL scouts wanted him to play another position. It worked out well for him. He's the first player to be in the HOF of both the CFL and NFL and the first black QB in the NFL HOF.
That wasn't a barrier. Kenny Washington and Woody Strode broke the colour barrier in the NFL. As far as quarterbacks, the man who broke the barrier was Willie Thrower. Warren Moon faced obstacles, not barriers. Two completely different things.
No Maradona at 10, and no Cruyff at 14? That's when I stopped reading. No offense to the great Maradona, but he is no Pele. Pele - 77 goals in 92 appearances for Brazil and 1000+ for club Diego - 47 goals in 99 appearances for Argentina and 300+ for club Maradona was a great player but Batistuta was closer to Peles scoring pace. It is only because Maradona single handedly won Argentina a World Cup they are mentioned in the same breath.
Holy cow! We're arguing over whether barrier and obstacle are the same word. Just because an athlete breaks a colour barrier, doesn't mean it is torn down and gone. Even though the MLB colour barrier had been broken many years ago, Marge Schott proved it wasn't gone. And none of this is to say I'd pick Moon over Plante since I don't know enough about hockey history to choose.
Plante over Moon, no question. Certainly Moon was talented, but the history and overall contributions to his sport side with Plante. And Ted Williams or Gordie Howe. What a debate. Whatever you choose, the other side will, rightfully, scream.
That wasn't a barrier. Kenny Washington and Woody Strode broke the colour barrier in the NFL. As far as quarterbacks, the man who broke the barrier was Willie Thrower. Warren Moon faced obstacles, not barriers. Two completely different things. There's no difference. Barrier. Obstacle. Anyway, there was not a rule that the NFL had to be segregated. And, those players you named reintegrated the NFL in 1946 after 12 years with no black players. There were black players in the NFL in the 20s and 30s.
There is a difference. I know that by reading the definitions you provided. Jacques Plante was a much better goaltender than Warren Moon was a quarterback. Plante did far more to revolutionize his position, in fact the way the entire game of hockey was played, than Moon did his, and the way football was played.
Thanks to Crash for the post. And I am NOT complaining....give praise to our hero's and all....BUT! The bat is right. These "BEST" lists. Always seem to disappoint. Seems like we see these things roll out almost every year 'round this time of the BBall season. They get soooo boring. Same old concepts; same old arguments. It' s kind of like watching a Kindergarten play...vaguely interesting, disappointing in general. We feign excitement...but we are really just being polite. (Much like being a Rangers fan!) Does anyone have a list we can get REALLY excited about? The 100 most deserving of rabid fandome? The 10 most notorious? The 10 sweatiest? The 10 best shoes? The top 10 dirtiest plays? The 100 sneakiest tricks? The 100 largest beer guts in sport?
#1 should be Lance Armstrong. He did win the Tour de France six times whilst wearing it.
And Ted Williams or Gordie Howe. What a debate. Whatever you choose, the other side will, rightfully, scream. I'd go with Gordie Howe. Obviously I'm going to be slightly biased but the imapct Howe had on the Red Wings and the game of hockey itself is pretty hard to ignore. Does anyone have a list we can get REALLY excited about? All of these lists are inherently the same. Lists made in the United States never include international sports and lists outside the United States rarely include moments in the United States. Throw in that there are often glaring holes in the list and there really isn't a list to get excited about. That being said, these lists do provide great subjects for debate.
Yeah, okay, you find for me where Gordie Howe shot down even one enemy war plane, and then we'll talk. Plus, Williams was a hell of a fisherman. That's a three-sport star right there. Williams over Howe in a heartbeat.
Nominations are open. I'll put out some names. Sweatiest: Patrick Ewing Dirtiest Play: Todd Bertuzzi on Steve Moore Sneakiest Trick: Alex Rodriguez Shoes: Billy ''White Shoes'' Johnson Beer Gut: John Kruk Rabid Fan: Barrel Man Notorious: Ty Cobb (where's The Old Man to tell us stories when we need him) Aside to Crafty: as Canadian as I am, as great as Gordie was, I have to go along with you on this one. Ted Williams is #9. There are stories out there though about Howe being a pretty fair baseball player, but I think that little war thing gives Williams the edge. However, Gordie looks better than Ted these days, and is doing some of his most heroic work right now, taking care of Colleen.
However, Gordie looks better than Ted these days, I would definitely hope so.
So is it time for my closeup, Mr Director? Gordie Howe isn't even the best #9 in hockey.
Moon over the Big "O"? What were they smokin'?
I never put together the #25 problem the guys at SI must have had. Bonds and/or McGwire? Had to be tough. Water1, have to agree with you about the #1. Have to argue with the choice at #7 as well. There are so many that my fan bias made me question the choices.
how can clemens not be in there for 21 or 22
I would imagine there are MANY goalkeepers in soccer much better overall than Warren Moon at #1. Gigi Buffon, Dino Zoff, Gordon Banks, Peter Schmeichel (sp?) the list is very long. I can not see a reason not to put a top soccer GK at #1 instead of a top 20 or so QB. I do agree with Pele at #10 instead of Maradona. A no brainer for me. Pele had and has the greatest overall impact than any player ever, perhaps more than any athlete worldwide ever.
This list is a sham. No mention of Flava Flave (number 1/2) during MTV's Rock and Jock Basketball?
#10 vs #1
I was looking for a way to weedle Zinedine Zidane at #5 but I guess I have to give them Joe DiMaggio. However, Donovan McNabb as a runner up and no mention of ZiZou? Then they compound this with no mention of Cruyff at 14. Mia Hamm gets a vote at #9, but not Marco Van Basten? Of course later on they start picking cars which means that Plante and Moon both become runners up to the #1 position. (Although they should both already be behind Armstrong anyway.) Across all sports indeed.
As for #34, I have to agree with the choice of Walter Payton. However, being from Houston, I'm proud that the #34 will be retired in all 3 major sports in Houston. Three greats (in three different sports) wore that number, and all are (or will be) in the Hall of Fame in their respective sport. Nolan Ryan, Earl Campbell, Hakeem Olajuwon. Can't wait for Houston to get an NHL franchise, to see who will wear that number.
Can't wait for Houston to get an NHL franchise, to see who will wear that number. They do have one. Number 34 isn't anything special though.
Nice link Bismarck, what a save!
So you're saying the Texans play on skates YYM? This explains their offensive line.
My bad. Thought he said NFL.
How about Hall of Famer #99 Dan Hampton??
The next SI article will be " 100 GREATEST ATHLETES TO HAVE THEIR HEAD FROZEN" Right now, Ted Williams is numbers 1 through 100.
Sneakiest Trick: Alex Rodriguez What for? The "Mine!" incident or slapping the ball out of the glove? Bah! Any player that can pull off the "hidden ball trick" TWICE deserves to be up there.
Lists like this are something of a waste of time. I looked at the first 33, and I think that less than half of them could really be considered athletes. I would agree that each might have been one of the best ever to play his sport, but certainly should not be considered a great athlete. A far more meaningful exercise would be to select the 100 greatest players of any sport, by number. Even doing this would do a disservice to track and field athletes, because they don't have permanent numbers. OK, I'm really trying to start a debate on what constitutes an athlete, but arguing the merits of players from different sports who happen to share a number is arguing apples vs oranges. *This view may or may not be colored by their choice of a horse over Derek Jeter. I completely disagree, Crafty. Derek Jeter never paid off in the trifecta.
Citing Warren Moon's "barrier-breaking" impact demeans his on-field accomplishments. Simply put, his numbers in the NFL are better than even Dan Marino's, who everyone has on their all-time list. Nearly 50,000 passing yards (fourth-best), one of three with back-to-back 4,000-yard seasons in his time (Marino, Fouts), etc. He won wherever he went. Highest-paid player in his sport. Ho doesn't need African-american-ness to rank at the top.
Citing Warren Moon's "barrier-breaking" impact demeans his on-field accomplishments. It does no such thing. It adds to the legacy, not detract from it. Besides, you'll notice I mentioned "the numbers he put up in the CFL and NFL", so it's not like choosing only his being black as a reason to say he's "great". He won wherever he went. Uh, what are you talking about? He never won a title when he was with the Oilers, Chiefs, Vikings or Seahawks. He had losing seasons in his first three seasons in the NFL (1984-86). He was also the quarterback of record for the greatest collapse in NFL history. Don't ruin his memory with hyperbole.
Nothing against Lebron, but he has not grown up enough to be compared to Pete Maravich or Kirk Gibson. He is on track to be the next Erving Johnson, but he still has a long way to go!
Warren Moon was a great qb but I think you have to go with Oscar Robertson for the #1 slot. Averging nearly a triple double for his career and 12 straight trips to the all-star game.
I can not see a reason not to put a top soccer GK at #1 instead of a top 20 or so QB Agreed. But what about Lev Yashin, the Black Octopus? But I guess there's no way he's appearing on an American list.
Can't believe I didn't think of Yashin as one of the top GKs. I would definitely put him amongst the all time greats with Buffon, Banks, Zoff and Schmeichel. The Black Spider/Black Octopus (because he always wore black and seemed like he had 8 arms) also won a gold medal in the USSR as a Hockey Goalie.
The Black Spider/Black Octopus ....also won a gold medal in the USSR as a Hockey Goalie. At what level of competition, the Olympics, or local club league?
The USSR domestic ice hockey league.
