FanDuel - WFBC

May 21, 2006

Who cares about 714. . .will Albert hit 80?: With his 21st home run on Saturday, Albert Pujols has 21 home runs in 43 team games. He also has 53 RBIs. Computed over a full season that would be 79 home runs (not 80, but close enough) and 200 RBIs. What numbers will he end up with?

posted by donnnnychris to baseball at 06:14 AM - 66 comments

As for Bonds from what I've heard MLB hasn't even claimed they are going to reconize the feat is that true? I'm no Barry fan and not just since this past year either. I'm keeping my eyes on Albert that's for sure, I think that he has a legit shot at barring injuries. As for Barry, do some reading on him and I think you will make your own decision as to whether he's legit.

posted by lionheart069 at 07:40 AM on May 21

For the record, the only bandwagon pertaining to Bonds that I was on was the "I'm not sucking up to the media" bandwagon. I've always admired that. Everything else I don't really like. Pujols, on the other hand, I've always liked. The man is just tremendous! He has been on a tear since he came into the Bigs, and without any controversy surrounding him. By the way -- furnaceman787, please turn your caps lock off. You're making everyone think that you're shouting. Thanks...

posted by wingnut4life at 09:02 AM on May 21

some that took steriods should not be reconqized for this accomplishment. he is great, but, steriods does it every time

posted by eviltrekker at 09:07 AM on May 21

I'm sorry, has Barry failed a test I didn't hear about? I know he probally wont either. I'm happy he finally got it over with. Has anyone else noticed that Clemans is coming back about 50 games into the season? What is the punishment for first time offenders? Maybe Selig should have told him to take up basketball for a while.

posted by seansterps at 09:28 AM on May 21

For my birthday this year, while blowing out the candle I wished Pujols would pass Bonds' record in September playing the Giants with Bonds in the game, and the ball is hit over the left field wall, just out of his reach, with a game-winning walk off home run as Bonds slumps back to the dugout, his legacy gone. Then I wished for world peace and unlimited wealth and all that crap.

posted by smithnyiu at 09:33 AM on May 21

I think Pujols is the best hitter in baseball, but I predict he will end up with only about 60 home runs and 130 RBI. I just think eventually teams will wise up to it and not pitch to him. It's not like the Cardinals have a hugely formidable line-up this year.

posted by holden at 10:03 AM on May 21

I think this guy could have a serious shot at breaking the all-time record, as long as he stays healthy. He's young, can hit and has a good swing. He reminds me alot of a young Griffey Jr; the one who everyone thought would shatter the HR records before he had all those injuries. Pujols is the real deal.

posted by redsoxrgay at 10:34 AM on May 21

EVERYBODY WAS ON THE BONDS BAND WAGON UNTIL THIS YEAR What planet are you from, San Francisco? Barry is the most reviled player in his sport, maybe in ALL of sport. Albert Pujols might smash many records before he hangs up his spikes. We have never seen a player accomplish what he has in his first 5 years in the league. I thought this was a good article as well. Quite a contrast to Barry's selfish image.

posted by mjkredliner at 10:50 AM on May 21

The over whelming hate for Bonds has nothing to do with steroids.Bonds is one of the greatest players of all time and that is just a fact.Look your self in the mirror and ask why you really hate one preson so much.

posted by SharpShooter at 10:52 AM on May 21

It's not like the Cardinals have a hugely formidable line-up this year. Not home run formidable, but they're all pretty good hitters. Fortunately, baseball's not always won through home runs. Whenever I hear talk of Bonds, I think of the Bob and Tom radio show where they mentioned that there was a charity event which would allow ticket purchasers to spend a guaranteed 5 minute chance to talk with each celebrity there, including Barry. They "joked" that the rest of the Giants were going to buy the tickets so that he'd talk to them. Go Cards.

posted by Thisguy at 11:26 AM on May 21

OK sharpshooter, let me try. [me] mirror mirror on the wall, why don't I like Bonds at all? [mirror] it's because he's such an ass. [me] not because of steroids, or because he's black? [mirror] no. Wow, that was weird. I didn't even know my mirror could talk.

posted by smithnyiu at 11:30 AM on May 21

Bonds is a punk. Always has been and always will be. Now he's a steroid pumped punk. He and Mcgwire should be run out of baseball along with jr. punk Sosa. Pujols not only plays the game well he takes care of his fans. The guy is doing it right. The Babe did it on beer and hotdogs. As for a formidable line up....oh yeah...Edmunds and Rolan are light weights too..lol

posted by budman13 at 11:40 AM on May 21

ONE QUESTION???? Why hasnt anyone even thought about the fast that Albert Pujols is juiced? Seems very strange. He is bigger than Barry thats for sure. Anyone ever see a pic of Pujols before he hit Saint Louis? Skinny, no but no where as big and strong as he is now. I'm not saying he is jacked on juice, but just wondering why nobody in the media has brought up the question. That is besides the fast that Bonds is a jackass and Albert is cool with the fans and the pens. Hmmmm!

posted by HammerStorm at 11:51 AM on May 21

HammerStorm, OK, so I looked up his rookie stats. He was drafted right out of high school in 98. In 99 he was 6-3 and weighed 225. According to his current bio on MLB.com he is 6-3 and weighs 225. Great work inspector clouseau. You've broken the story of the year.

posted by smithnyiu at 12:02 PM on May 21

hahahahahahahahahaha

posted by everett at 12:23 PM on May 21

I'll agree than Bonds has become the whipping-boy for the steroid era, but.... ...the "I'm not sucking up to the media" bandwagon"... Sucking up to the media? Do you realize these are grown men playing a game? They have an obligation to tell the fans about that game. It isn't sucking up to the media, it's part of their jobs. As for people not liking Bonds, here's an excerpt from a book that gives some alleged examples of Bonds behavior. I don't "hate" Bonds, but i do get quite irritated when he squirts crocodile tears and hides behind his race. I'd like to see him visit North Philadelphia or any other inner city and tell kids about how tough prep school was because he was black.

posted by SummersEve at 12:39 PM on May 21

It isn't sucking up to the media, it's part of their jobs. Ok, I see your point. It is a part of their jobs. How many players do you think actually enjoy talking to the media? Usually you'll get a spiel about a win, or some kind of subdued comment about a loss. Basically telling the reporter what he wants to hear so he can be left alone.

posted by wingnut4life at 12:56 PM on May 21

Pujols is amazing. I wish that I could take back my draft when i could have taken him over A-Rod. But i have 2 god 1st basemen already. Delgado and Thome!

posted by cpl1337 at 02:10 PM on May 21

Sucking up to the media? Do you realize these are grown men playing a game? They have an obligation to tell the fans about that game. It isn't sucking up to the media, it's part of their jobs. Providing stock answers at the end of a game about effort, chances and having to play better isn't really part of their job. It's something we've made part of their lives, but it's not like they're spending hours scripting answers to these questions and that a good media performance will get them any bonuses. It's like saying the daily commute is "part of your job"; the fact that you've got to go through it is true, but it's not like your performance there is in any way part of your compensation.

posted by dfleming at 02:26 PM on May 21

Thisguy wrote: Not home run formidable, but they're all pretty good hitters. Fortunately, baseball's not always won through home runs. budman13 wrote: As for a formidable line up....oh yeah...Edmunds and Rolan are light weights too..lol Cardinals are a pretty middle of the pack offense this year -- they are 9 out of 16 NL teams in OPS, although 6 out of 16 in runs scored. As opposed to the past few years where they had Todd Walker and Reggie Sanders and a productive Jim Edmonds (who is only hitting .252/.346/.410 this year), Pujols and Rolen are really the only two scary hitters in this line-up. Instead, the Cardinals are getting it done with pitching, as they lead the NL in staff ERA this year.

posted by holden at 02:37 PM on May 21

I think its fascinating that Pujols stood up for Bonds and Bonds has stood up for Pujols. I think they both have a fair amount of respect for the other. And if Albert breaks the single season record, so much the better, I've got him on three fantasy league teams!

posted by fenriq at 03:21 PM on May 21

Uh, that was Larry Walker, holden.

posted by mjkredliner at 03:22 PM on May 21

u know what i hear about Babe Ruth being the greatest player of all time what a joke. I think that alot of people forget the greatness of Willie Mays or the consistency of Hank Aaron. Ruth played in a segregated era so he didn't play against the greatest baseball players of the time. Josh Gibson was a better hitter than Ruth and he did so while playing with guys who scuffed the ball did all kinds of things with it and still hit over 800 career home runs.And he played against Satchel Paige consistenly as well as other great Negro League pithcers.U can say he was the greatest player of the segregated era but to say he is the greatest player of all time fails to look at what Mays and Aaron did, look at their stats they speak for themselves, then judge.

posted by sprman92 at 03:22 PM on May 21

Pujols is the one hitter I'd pay money to watch hit. He won me over after the hr off of lidge last year. I think its fascinating that Pujols stood up for Bonds and Bonds has stood up for Pujols. Well, what he actually said was: "He's probably made some mistakes, but give the guy a break". His standing up for him was basically "yeah, he probably did it, but lay off the guy". Damning praise.

posted by justgary at 03:39 PM on May 21

without any controversy surrounding him (Pujols) Well, except for the (now simmering) debate about his age.

posted by grum@work at 03:43 PM on May 21

sprman92,different players, different eras,always makes for debates,would mays&mantle be as good today, compared back then? or even ruth? ted williams? joltin joe? the players today are bigger,faster,stronger..how would they do, back in the 50's? now.. that's a scary thought.

posted by ktown at 03:47 PM on May 21

Uh, that was Larry Walker, holden. Indeed it was. As much as I would like to see the LSU product at second base for the Cards this year (at least for his bat; his glove leaves a bit to be desired), he has never played for the Cardinals. Sorry to all the Canadians in residence.

posted by holden at 03:54 PM on May 21

u know what i hear about Babe Ruth being the greatest player of all time what a joke. I think that alot of people forget the greatness of Willie Mays or the consistency of Hank Aaron. Which one of those guys were the best left-handed pitcher of their generation?

posted by yerfatma at 05:00 PM on May 21

"Bonds is could have been one of the greatest players of all time and that is just a fact." There, fixed that right up for you.

posted by mr_crash_davis at 05:03 PM on May 21

Which one of those guys were the best left-handed pitcher of their generation? Yerfatma, I'm so tired of the, "but Babe was a great pitcher," thing. We're talking about great everyday players. Sure, Babe was a great pitcher but we're not comparing anybody with the pitching part of his career. Babe as a hitter and Babe as a pitcher were two seperate things. Would mays&mantle be as good today, compared back then? or even ruth? ted williams? joltin joe? the players today are bigger,faster,stronger..how would they do, back in the 50's? now.. that's a scary thought. ktown, Ted Williams would be just as good as he was back then. You have to remember, the pitching level is actually dilluted now because there are so many teams (expansion has greatly diminished the quality of pitching rotations as compared to those days). As for the rest of those guys, I think they would've done pretty well in today's game. You can make the argument that they wouldn't be used to the travel and such but remember, today's players don't have to play a night game and then endure a train ride all night before playing a doubleheader starting at noon the next day. So this comparing eras goes both ways.

posted by donnnnychris at 06:07 PM on May 21

Very good point ktown but they don't debate Ruth they just say he is the greatest of all time, period. I don't know about left handed pitcher, but i do know that Satchel Paige ranks in the top 5 of all time. This guy pitched for over 30 years and came to the majors when he was way way past his prime. Let him in the majors in his prime and we would probably be talking about some of his pitching feats, i'm sure we would

posted by sprman92 at 06:45 PM on May 21

It should be fun to see the Cards play against the Giants next week. If Pujols and Bonds are actually pitched to, we should see some amazing hits.

posted by redsoxrgay at 07:36 PM on May 21

My goodness, Albert hit another one today (Sunday)...that's 22 in 44 games...on pace for 81 now. He's amazing.

posted by donnnnychris at 10:09 PM on May 21

My prediction for Pujols: 63 home runs, 145 RBI's, .336 average

posted by wdminott at 10:22 PM on May 21

Forget Albert's HR chase, we in Houston still hear his monster shot to this day.

posted by chemwizBsquared at 11:14 PM on May 21

My personal guess for Pujols is a Ramirez-like RBI year with around 165 and 63-65 home runs. His average will be around .320, but really, with all those home runs and RBIs, who really cares about the average?

posted by donnnnychris at 02:20 AM on May 22

We're talking about great everyday players. Sure, Babe was a great pitcher but we're not comparing anybody with the pitching part of his career. Babe as a hitter and Babe as a pitcher were two seperate things. Ok. Given in another thread you say Ted Williams would be better now than he was in the 40s due to the diluted pitching talent (which ignores the fact the pool is no longer just white guys from the US), how would Ruth do, given he's the all-time OPS leader?

posted by yerfatma at 06:19 AM on May 22

Providing stock answers at the end of a game about effort, chances and having to play better isn't really part of their job. We let them get away with stock answers, but their talking to us is mandatory if they want to keep doing what they're doing. It may seem like they don't have to talk to the media, but if they try to play games in a vacuum then they won't be playing it for long... At least not at the level of money they're making.

posted by SummersEve at 07:03 AM on May 22

There are far more important things in this world than a person who hit 714 home runs. As usual we value the wrong things. To add to the issue we throw things such as race and the persons personality into the ring. We shopuld enjoy sports and not let it drive our inner prejudices. It is not that important.

posted by rodell40 at 07:17 AM on May 22

We let them get away with stock answers, but their talking to us is mandatory if they want to keep doing what they're doing. It may seem like they don't have to talk to the media, but if they try to play games in a vacuum then they won't be playing it for long... At least not at the level of money they're making. Sorry, I don't believe that if A-rod stopped talking to the media that the Yankees would release him, or offer him less than market value. That's ridiculous. The Yankees pay him to play baseball. Plus, there a lot of players who don't have any part of the media circus; everyone outside of the top 5 or 6 players on every team. They aren't being chased by the media and it's not part of their job; it's the media who make it seem like not talking to them is the hugest crime ever because, well, it hurts their business.

posted by dfleming at 08:40 AM on May 22

As for Bonds from what I've heard MLB hasn't even claimed they are going to reconize the feat is that true? I don't think there is a reason to recognize it. They don't generally recognize when people move into 2nd place in other catagories. Something everyone seems to forget. Bonds did not break the rocord. He most likely will not. He has a long ways to go to catch Aaron.

posted by scottypup at 09:29 AM on May 22

One player here or there isn't going to make a difference, and teams will always make someone available. But trust me, if the Yankees as a whole stopped talking to the media, there would be a backlash and it wouldn't just be from the media. The media are the connection to the fan. Some abuse that and muckrake but that's the nature of the biz. I really do think if teams and entire sports stopped talking they would fade away. Otherwise, why would they be talking to the media now?

posted by SummersEve at 09:52 AM on May 22

I don't think there is a reason to recognize it. They don't generally recognize when people move into 2nd place in other catagories. He did do something that only two people have done in the past 70 years. You'd think the commish could take a couple days/weeks from his busy schedule to be on hand when it happens. You have to wonder why he isn't on hand. My guess is he thinks he'd been seen as just as --if not more-- guilty than Bonds as the event happens resulting in a rather unpleasent situation for our beloved commissioner. Afterall if Bonds never used anything, Selig and no drug policy are responsible for creating the witchhunt. If Bonds did use something than Selig's responsible for turning a blind eye.

posted by SummersEve at 09:59 AM on May 22

Write on SummersEve! Barry Bonds has never failed a drug test. Is that fact escaping everyone. I am really wondering why his accomplishments makes him so vulnerable. Cannot we not believe in greatness anymore? Ty Cobb was a butthole superior but was still a great player. Aaron is one of the greatest hitters of all time, has displayed admirable character yet he was still attacked in various ways and circles on his chase to 714. Maybe (714) is the curse of the Bambino, Baseball and America. Babe was reportedly Black also...(Ty Cobb called him the n word often) said he was passing. This whole questioning of Barry Bonds the attack on Aaron causes me to wonder if there is not something deeper here that needs our attention. Our own character as human beings and the continue denial of the racial issues that still exist in baseball and America. Bonds is playing a game period and he has proven to be the best of his era streroids are not. No one else besides Ruth has done what he has done. Some people consider hot dogs steroids have you seen the ingrediants. I would not let my kids eat them.

posted by Sputnik at 10:46 AM on May 22

There are far more important things in this world than a person who hit 714 home runs. Then obviously this is not the site for you. Cannot we not believe in greatness anymore? Ty Cobb was a butthole superior but was still a great player. Aaron is one of the greatest hitters of all time, has displayed admirable character yet he was still attacked in various ways and circles on his chase to 714. Many people find it hard to believe in Bonds greatness right now, especially when he has become the front man for the steroid controversy. In many people's eyes he is the negative effect steroids has had on the game. He has now tied with one of the greatest players to play the game. However, you imply that his quest is the same as Hank Aaron's. That is wrong. Aaron had to deal with racists and others, all who did not want to see the great Babe Ruth's record broken by a black man. In Bonds' case, people don't want the record broken by steroids. Aaron's case was utter racism and unjustified. While Bonds' case has yet to be entirely proven, I would say it is much more justified than Aaron's.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 12:32 PM on May 22

Bonds is a great hitter. If he is juiced he most likely would not have hit as many HR's as he has. That has not been proven so I'll reserve judgement. His ***hole attitude though is one of the reasons people hate him also. Most interviews I've seen with him he just comes off as a real jerk. That includes before any ofthe Balco allegations came out. Bonds does not compare with Aaron in my eyes because of that more than anything. Aaron showed nothing but class when he was completely unjustly attacked in his pursuit. Bonds just comes off as a jerk regardless of whether he is guilty of steroids or not.

posted by scottypup at 12:44 PM on May 22

If he is juiced he most likely would not have hit as many HR's as he has. That has not been proven so I'll reserve judgement. Yes it has, but bonds claims he wasn't aware that it was steroids he was taking.

posted by justgary at 01:15 PM on May 22

Actually, I don't believe Bonds has ever admitted using steroids, knowingly or unknowingly. He admitted to using something clear which he was told was flaxseed oil and he admitted to using some cream -- both given to him by his trainer. The prosecutor contends that those items met the description of the cream and the clear. That is not an admission to unknowingly using steroids. I know it is splitting hairs, but I think it is a distinction that is worth mentioning.

posted by bperk at 01:28 PM on May 22

I think my post would have been more appropriate in the main Bonds thread, rather than the thread about Bonds vs. Pujols. Obviously, I am having trouble keeping the Bonds threads straight.

posted by bperk at 02:02 PM on May 22

And if Albert breaks the single season record, so much the better, I've got him on three fantasy league teams! Oh yeah, rub it in...

posted by wingnut4life at 02:23 PM on May 22

That is not an admission to unknowingly using steroids. I know it is splitting hairs, but I think it is a distinction that is worth mentioning. You have to be kidding me. Let me get this straight. Bonds used a clear and a cream that came from a company that made a clear and cream steroid. You're saying that though bonds used a clear and creme from that company it might not have been steroids? You're not splitting hairs. It's the same thing. Bonds used steroids. He used a creme and clear from a company that made a creme and clear steroid. He unknowingly (if you believe him) used steroids. Saying bonds used steroids and didn't know about it is actually being generous considering the evidence. You're right though. It's off topic, so I won't say more.

posted by justgary at 02:27 PM on May 22

My comment wasn't to debate whether Bonds actually used steroids or not. I was debating your statement that " bonds claims he wasn't aware that it was steroids he was taking." Bonds admits that Anderson gave him something which Bonds used. Neither he nor Anderson said he got it from BALCO. Presumably, Anderson, as a personal trainer, could shop at GNC or any other nutritional store. Any number of perfectly legal substances come in a cream form or are clear. From your link: "To the prosecutors, the substances Bonds said he was using sounded like "the cream" and "the clear," two steroids designed to be undetectable in laboratory testing that Victor Conte, founder of BALCO, is accused of marketing to elite athletes, sometimes with Anderson as middleman. " All that to say that regardless of whether you believe Bonds used steroids, Bonds never claimed that he unknowingly used steroids. Bonds can derail any thread, especially when he is referenced in the FPP.

posted by bperk at 03:15 PM on May 22

(bonds said he took took the creme and the clear, didn't think it was steroids. He can't say he did, because that would show he knew what he was taking. So for it not to be steroids there is another creme and clear, that you take the same exact way, that isn't steroids. I understand what you're saying, but its far fetched to say the least. And from the link, that bonds says he took creme and clear is just the start of the evidence.)

posted by justgary at 03:48 PM on May 22

Ok. Given in another thread you say Ted Williams would be better now than he was in the 40s due to the diluted pitching talent (which ignores the fact the pool is no longer just white guys from the US), how would Ruth do, given he's the all-time OPS leader? Ruth would do just fine in this era. It's not like the pitchers are throwing any harder now, so most of the great hitters would be great no matter what era they played in. Sure, you have relief pitching to factor in (something that was nearly non-existent back in Ruth's era) but at the same time, like I've said before, this era's players have a cushy travel life compared to the train travel of past eras. So everything equals out in that sense.

posted by donnnnychris at 05:47 PM on May 22

Aaron had to deal with racists and others, all who did not want to see the great Babe Ruth's record broken by a black man. In Bonds' case, people don't want the record broken by steroids. Aaron's case was utter racism and unjustified. While Bonds' case has yet to be entirely proven, I would say it is much more justified than Aaron's. Ying Yang Mafia, To say that Bonds' situation is devoid of racist overtones is being naive. Let me ask this: If Mark McGwire were the one who broke out of the steroid pack and challenged these records would he be facing the same level of animosity that Bonds has faced? I don't think so. Of course racism has something to do with all of this. It's not on the in-your-face level that Aaron faced because that's how our society is now, racism is much more subtle than in past years. And if you think about it, this type of racism is much more scary because now you have no idea who is racist and who isn't. Nobody is advertising it on their sleeves, as they did back in Aaron's era.

posted by donnnnychris at 05:54 PM on May 22

What was it flaxseed oil? What did he think? Magical healing properties? No I'm going in all lubed up. and the Klear will help me see the rotation of the ball. Got that, Hey he will never cry like Mark McGuire, never ever, what a man. Mark swears off using Androstenedione in 1999. what a man. These guys, and i do mean Barry too, Make baseball look like big time wrestling. What a farce, nobody cares but those that say OH MY GOD HE TIED BABE RUTH hes the greatest. Well he didn't flunk a test. HA HA , ya maybe he did and standard operating procedure is just to lie to everybody to protect their own interests and positions.

posted by westbranch at 05:58 PM on May 22

Geez, I thought this post was about Albert Pujols and his projected home run total, not Barry Bonds. Anyway, I'll say that projections are mostly worthless in baseball. Right now, Jim Thome is on track for around 70 home runs and 170 RBIs. I drafted him in the 16th round of my fantasy baseball league, and would love him to keep producing at the same level, but there's no way that will happen. I wouldn't take much stock in projections until the third quarter. Too many games, too many variables. But if any player can keep it up -- barring injury -- I do think it's Pujols.

posted by forrestv at 06:21 PM on May 22

To say that Bonds' situation is devoid of racist overtones is being naive. If you can point out where I said Bonds' situation is devoid of racist overtones I will eat this computer. I understand that there are people who don't like Bonds' quest because they are racist but I think they are far from the majority. Many people on this site have voiced their displeasure for Bonds but I highly doubt they are all racist. Bonds is on a quest to break what can be said as baseball's most hallowed record. He has become the poster boy for the steroid controversy and when people see him breaking the record, they see steroids breaking it as well. The underlying issue with Bonds is not racism, its steroids. It is hard to say what would be happening if McGwire had been in Bonds' shoes because it is unclear what evidence would be brought to light. Would there be people who would not have as much of a problem with it because it was a white guy? Yes, but not the majority of the people who are upset now because they would still be upset for the same reason, that being steroids.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 06:26 PM on May 22

And if you think about it, this type of racism is much more scary because now you have no idea who is racist and who isn't. Nobody is advertising it on their sleeves, as they did back in Aaron's era. I guess it depends on what you mean by "scary," but I would say that not knowing whether your neighbor is a racist is a lot less scary than the possibility that you might get killed for whistling at a white woman. I get the sentiment, I just wouldn't use the word "scary."

posted by holden at 10:57 PM on May 22

Ying Yang Mafia, The thing is, the only real "hard" evidence on Bonds is a book that was written by two sportswriters, a group that famously loathes Bonds. McGwire, while sometimes prickly, had a much better relationship with the media and my guess is a book of this nature would've never been published about Big Red. So there's the difference, I guess, in what I'm saying. The media seems more inclined to go on a witch hunt with Bonds than they would with McGwire.

posted by donnnnychris at 02:44 AM on May 23

Holden, how about the word "sad" for all of the racist crap that goes on?

posted by donnnnychris at 02:46 AM on May 23

Sad works for me.

posted by holden at 10:53 AM on May 23

DONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNYCHRIS, McGwire and Bonds also were around during very different times. McGwire was resurrecting a sport and striving to break a long standing record before the steroid controversy while Bonds finds himself in a different situation due to the steroids. Is Bonds less receptive to the media than McGwire was? Maybe but it was also different times. I think we would find that if their roles were reversed, McGwire would find himself facing much of the things Bonds faces today.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 05:07 PM on May 23

Ying Yang Mafia, It was different times because the media didn't WANT to believe McGwire was doing anything wrong. The difference is the media smells blood now and is going for it, and all the better it's that a-hole Bonds (at least in their minds, meaning the media). There was so much that was passed over during McGwire's 70-HR season that it isn't even funny. The media just flat didn't report on anything because they didn't want to break this image of the big strapping savior of baseball. If Bonds had been the one challenging Maris' record first the media would've been questioning him hard and my guess is the steroid scandal would've broke sooner because the media would've been more critical of Bonds. So anyway, look like we agree to disagree on this one. Thanks for the give and take.

posted by donnnnychris at 09:19 PM on May 23

i remember there was media reports that were suggesting mcguire was using but claimed ignorance and the media accepted it,but then the word got out that big mac was using..he promptly retired...and to say barry and mark playing in 2 different eras is crap..because mark was in a couple of years before barry and mark played in the american league whereas,barry played in the national..as for racism,yes its prevailent still, look at sosa,palemiro,canseco..non-americans are vilified for using roids,but ,oh no, not big mac..he's american,he doesn't cheat,because he's white...well there's barry,he's black,no need to go any further...if you get my drift..the media should be ashamed of themselves, for continuing the stereotypes...barry bonds,will always be a great player,the 7 mvp's speak for themselves...

posted by ktown at 10:31 AM on May 24

but then the word got out that big mac was using..he promptly retired Actually, it was "and then his knees/ankles/feet fell apart completely and he could barely walk to first base...he promptly retired" As for the Palmeiro/Sosa/Canseco/Bonds/McGwire comparison, I don't think racism has much to do with it. Palmeiro - got caught in a drug test, so it's hard to avoid that brouhaha Sosa - previously was embarrassed by corked bat, then stats plummeted during seasons when steroid testing was implemented (may be coincidental, but most people don't see it that way) Canseco - a general ne'er-do-well character (various criminal charges), plus an admission of steroid use Bonds - generally unliked character (in the media) means more effort by them to "break" him McGwire - transformed himself from grumpy man to media darling during HR chase, retired JUST before steroid problem exploded (so he's not in the news 6 days out of 7) I think the real litmus test of the proposed "racial" bias would be to see how they would react if someone like Roger Clemens had more than accusations leveled at him about steroids. He isn't well loved by the media, has a sure-fire hall of fame career in baseball, and has had "statistical revival" in the later portion of his career, much the same way as Bonds.

posted by grum@work at 11:54 AM on May 24

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