FanDuel - WFBC

April 10, 2006

Take Me Out to the Brawl Game: Something to note before the New York Mets begin an away series with the Washington Nationals on Tuesday: The Mets hit the Nats six times last week, including two by Pedro Martinez of Jose Guillen. "If Pedro hits him, we're going to fight," Cliff Floyd said.

posted by rcade to baseball at 06:40 AM - 34 comments

"I'm sure everything will be all right," Franco said. "We're all professionals. I know we have the capability to put things behind us." Somehow I don't think that will happen. I expect to see fireworks when Pedro is on the mound.

posted by wingnut4life at 07:32 AM on April 10

I expect to see fireworks when Pedro is on the mound. I agree. This is the REAL Pedro Martinez. He's as stubborn as they come. He's going to own the plate, especially inside, and show the Nationals he's in control and nobody will stop him. The title of that article cracks me up (Mets hope plunking's done). Isn't that (or wasn't that) kind of up to them? I couldn't believe after all the Nationals getting hit by pitches, who gets thrown out of a game? A Nationals pitcher and Robinson. If the Mets plan on playing that brand of baseball, they (Cliff Floyd included) better get used to fighting.

posted by dyams at 08:08 AM on April 10

let us also not forget that the last fight they had was just last week, so they haven't fully had time to cool down and forget about what happened last time. Dyams also makes an excellent point Pedro is Pedro- should be fun

posted by cmsickman at 08:28 AM on April 10

Here is hoping that the umpires get the warnings out during the plate conference. While I am from the old school, and believe that there is a time and a place for sticking a pitch in a guys ear, it does not include carrying the incidents over from game to game, or throwing at someone who is not the offender in the first place. And to head off the rush of questions and outrage, 1) you do not throw at someone because he has gone yard on you. That is his job, do yours and keep him in the park. 1a) If the guy who went yard shows you up during his HR trot, then you are not throwing at him because he went yard, but, rather, because he is a jerk. 2) If the other team is well ahead, say 8 or 9 to 0 or 1, and they are stretching singles into doubles, or stealing bases, then the chin music could be justified in getting cued up. 3) The one exception to throwing at someone who is not the offender is in the AL; if a pitcher throws at a teammate because of reasons such as those listed here, where it is not justified, then you MAY need to plunk someone other than the offender, since pitchers don't have to hit (just another reason to hate the DH). This may seem like an odd stance for an umpire to take, but think about it, how often do you see umpires give the warnings after the first HBP incident in a game, generally it is after something like one of the things listed here, or if there is a history of bad blood, otherwise, it is not until the second batter is hit, generally by the opposing pitcher. This is because of a couple reasons. First, it may be that the first was an accident, players are pretty smart (yes tron7, contrary to popular belief, I do think that players are intelligent) and can tell if a guy just had a tough time with a breaking pitch, or if a heater got away from. Second, if it was a purpose pitch, there would be evidence earlier in the game that it was coming (such as one of the incidents listed above)at wich point the umpire is likely to warn both dugouts that the throwing will stop at that point. As I lead off with here, it is totally permissible to put out the warnings before the first pitch is thrown, just remember, once the warnings have been given, if a batter is hit, not matter the reason, even if it is a curve that didn't, both the pitcher and the manager get the rest of the night off.

posted by elovrich at 09:18 AM on April 10

Baseball fights are laughable for the most part. A lot of wrestling and empty benches of players just standing around watching two guys roll in the dirt for a while. And we KNOW that Pedro is going to throw inside. Especially now that he can be a shit disturber about it to boot.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 09:23 AM on April 10

I went to see the fights and a hockey baseball game broke out.

posted by njsk8r20 at 09:33 AM on April 10

I just love how Floyd plays the victim in all of this. All-pro. Oh I forgot though, it's his teammate who hit 6 Nats last time around. At that, I have no problem with Pedro and his pitching. I think hitters get way overly touchy when pitchers want to control the inside part of the plate. Most of these guys seem like they might have been afraid of the old-school pitchers from the 50s and 60s before they lowered the mound.

posted by mikelbyl at 09:50 AM on April 10

lets just get it done and over with. first pitch by each pitcher is a headshot on a farm league player just to get their agressions out.

posted by tibzapp at 09:53 AM on April 10

Julio Franco, who calmed Guillen after he got hit the second time, isn't expecting trouble. Jose Guillen can't be calmed. He has a smoldering fuse and is always about to explode. Wednesday is going to be exciting.

posted by Termite at 09:54 AM on April 10

Julio Franco, who calmed Guillen after he got hit the second time, isn't expecting trouble. Soft-spoken words from Papa Franco will calm most people down. And what would Guillen do, beat up a guy who is 18 years older than him?

posted by grum@work at 11:12 AM on April 10

In last week's game after he got plunked, I kept hoping Guillen would make a move from first as if to steal second, and charge the mound instead. Now that would be entertainment.

posted by mr_crash_davis at 11:42 AM on April 10

Guillen is a loose cannon, most definitely. But did you notice when he was going to the mound, Pedro didn't seem too intimidated. Even before LaDuca and the umpire had hold of him (Guillen), Martinez wasn't about to back down. I still have to admire Martinez' tenacity on the mound. The same qualities I used to hate about him when he was on the Red Sox I like about him now that he's on the Mets (and in the NL).

posted by dyams at 11:58 AM on April 10

The same qualities I used to hate about him when he was on the Red Sox I like about him now that he's on the Mets (and in the NL). Right... in 2004 he was a punk, now he's "tenacious"

posted by jerseygirl at 12:41 PM on April 10

Either way, he knows how to grab an elderly bull by the ears.

posted by yerfatma at 01:01 PM on April 10

I think the fact that he just doesn't care is really a part of his charm... on the mound. Jers- right on. Yerfatma- even a Sox fan will admit the Zimmer incident was uncalled for - on the other hand I too would be fearful of a real life garbage pale kid coming right for me...

posted by MW12 at 01:24 PM on April 10

First, it may be that the first was an accident, players are pretty smart (yes tron7, contrary to popular belief, I do think that players are intelligent) and can tell if a guy just had a tough time with a breaking pitch, or if a heater got away from. Is that really you elovrich? Are you ill? I burn pretty hot for about a second after I get hit regardless of intentions but then I get over it. I'm not sure Guillen gets over it.

posted by tron7 at 02:00 PM on April 10

Easy way to eliminate all the ''fighting''. Give each ''combatant'' a bat and stand back and let them slug it out. Result: end of baseball ''fights''. Same goes for hockey. give them each a stick, get rid of those fairy helmets stand back and let them slug it out. Result: end of hockey ''fights''.

posted by joromu at 04:22 PM on April 10

Good thing these pampered bozos didn't have to face pitchers like Bob Gibson, Ryne Duren and others of that era. Then they would know what being hit is really like.

posted by joromu at 04:40 PM on April 10

this proves even more pedro is a cheap baseball player.

posted by buffalo will never win at 04:43 PM on April 10

Everything should be alright, unless somebody over sixty is on the field, then Pedro has a free shot!

posted by INOALOSER at 04:48 PM on April 10

I didn't see the game so I am wondering if all of this "plunking" happened after the Nationals started getting hits off of Pedro?

posted by ayankeefan at 06:18 PM on April 10

Pedro only gave up 4 hits total in his 5-6 innings so I doubt that was a source of frustration for him. He's hit Guillen before so there must be some ill-history somewhere that I don't recall. Maybe Pedro just doesn't like Jose!

posted by Termite at 06:43 PM on April 10

And what would Guillen do, beat up a guy who is 18 years older than him? Worked for Pedro. This article strikes me as the Mets' hitters holding their arms out to the Nats' pitchers, saying, "Hey, guys. Let bygones be bygones." Injury-prone Floyd doesn't want to have to worry about taking one in the Achilles from Livan. Wah. They who live by the Pedro, die by the Pedro, I say. Martinez's 15 wins come at a price, and if the Mets' hitters aren't willing to pay it, they should file their grievance with Pedro, not the Nationals, the media or anybody else.

posted by BullpenPro at 10:03 PM on April 10

Yerfatma- even a Sox fan will admit the Zimmer incident was uncalled for - on the other hand I too would be fearful of a real life garbage pale kid coming right for me... posted by MW12 Please don't pretend to speak for all sox fans. Pedro has a lot of faults, but throwing a charging, 250 lb, angry man with his hands stretched out to grab his neck to the ground is not one of them. Zimmer said as much himself.

posted by justgary at 10:08 PM on April 10

I've seen Papa Francos workouts, I doubt Guillen could take him. I never really understood what people wanted Pedro to do with Zimmer. If he turned his back on him, Zimmer would have hit him. If he tries to get away from Zim, He would get called a pussy. He was in a no win situation and in the heat of battle I would have knocked that old man on his ass also.

posted by doggstarr at 10:23 PM on April 10

I agree...Zimmer became fair game when he went after Pedro. Don't like Pedro too much, but Zimmer got what he was looking for and because he was an old man, everyone found Pedro in the wrong.

posted by Ricardo at 05:26 AM on April 11

... Zimmer got what he was looking for ... National humiliation? Zimmer was so embarrassed by his actions that he broke the "no crying in baseball" rule in subsequent interviews.

posted by rcade at 07:22 AM on April 11

How refreshing that not everybody suffers from selective memory loss re: Petey and Zim. It's not like Pedro hid in the dark and threw Zimmer down the stairs. The man came after him with evil intent, and the fact that Pedro didn't haul off and smack the shit out of him instead of sending him on a (relatively) benign tumble speaks to his restraint in the situation. Unless Don Zimmer is your grandpa, you've got nothing to bitch about. Even then, you should just let go.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 07:36 AM on April 11

Pedro vs. Zimmer is one of the great baseball fights of all-time. You guys need to stop making it sound like a tragedy. It almost justifies the intense, constant interest in those two teams. Everytime I get mad at the glut of coverage those guys get I remind myself "Now calm down. Occassionally the players do fight the seventy year old coaches during the game. Give 'em some slack."

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:14 AM on April 11

Zimmer going mano a pedro is the third greatest manager-player fight in baseball history behind Lenny Randle sucker-punching Frank Lucchesi in spring training in 1977 and Ed Whitson kicking Billy Martin's ass at a hotel in 1985 (source). I love the quote from Lucchesi preceding the incident: "Anyone who makes $80,000 a year and gripes and moans all spring is not going to get a tear out of me."

posted by rcade at 09:19 AM on April 11

That Put Up Your Dukes link is classic. I especially enjoyed the comparison of Dick Williams to Hitler: Joe Torre had some unkind words after it was all over. "Dick Williams is an idiot," he said. "It was obvious he was the cause of the whole thing. Precipitating a thing like that was inexcusable. It was stupid of them, period, to take four shots at Perez. It was gutless. It stinks. It was Hitler-like action. I think he (Williams) should be suspended for the rest of the year."

posted by chris2sy at 11:09 AM on April 11

Pedro beans players intentionally. He hit Jose Guillen twice in the same game. Mets pitchers hit six Nationals players in the series. One Nationals pitcher beans one Mets player and gets suspended and fined. And the player who got beaned twice gets fined. And Pedro doesn't even get a fine. Gosh, I sure am glad baseball's got a strong leader in Bud Selig to nip this crap in the bud. That and I'd really like to see Pedro take a beanball right in the earhole of his helmet. Or maybe one in the ribs.

posted by fenriq at 12:30 AM on April 12

Pedro beans players intentionally. Hits them? Sure. Hits them in the head on purpose? I think he might have hit two guys in the dome while he was with the Sox. Which beanballs are we talking about? Who did he hit on purpose in the head?

posted by yerfatma at 06:13 AM on April 12

I'm not sure that Pedro intentionally aims for the NOGGEN, but now that he is in the National league, pitchers who face pedro as a batter have to use their opportunities to let him find out how good it feels to get hit by a 90 m/ph pitch in the thigh? For all of you who've never stood in the box, it does not feel good at all.

posted by im050483 at 02:06 PM on April 12

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