What Bryant said.
To make the point further, however, the only other thing I have to compare being a Red Sox fan with is being a Cubs fan. I went to college in Chicago, and even lived there later on for a couple of years. If I can make a gross generalization, (excluding the past few years) a Cubs fan pretty much have very low expectations with regard to their team's success. In fact, it was only in the past few years that Cubs management finally made a financial commitment to putting a good team on the field (despite years of negligence - for years, the Cubs were among the richest teams in baseball, but management was content not to put a good team together). Cubs fans, it seemed, were content to go to their beautiful ballpark, and enjoy the game, win or lose. I've always thought the Cubs fans maintained, and were strangely proud of identifying with their curse, as well as their tradition of abysmal "loveable loser" baseball. The Red Sox, on the other hand have been competitive as far back as I remember. In fact, I can't recall a period over my own 36 years where the Red Sox were not competitive for more than a rare season here or there. Even the Yankees were pretty lousy for quite a few seasons from the late 80s through the early 90s (Alvaro Espinoza, anyone?). So, most Red Sox fans don't care about the curse. In fact, we'd rather not hear about it. We identify, as Bryant said, by the wish for our team to succeed, not because they have frustrated us from time to time. To sum up my rambling... it may be unfair, but I think that idea that "well miss it when it's gone" with regard to the curse, applies much more to the Cubs fans, who identify with their team's futility, than with Sox fans, who will give anything to live to see that first world championship since 1918.
Yankee fans would root for the Mets if they were in the series. Hell no. Did they root in '86? As I recall, Steinbrenner threw a hissy fit that the local media was biased toward the Mets. I'm a Mets fan who hates the Yankees. If anything, I understand 1986 because I had a vested interest in the outcome. Red Sox Nation and the Shea bums are brothers in arms this year. Nothing would make me happier than to see the Sox pull this off. Don't forget also the way the Cardinals handed our asses to us on a plate in '85 and '87. (Though we showed them a little something in 2000, thanks to the Rick Ankiel Incident.)
I wasn't aware of that Mitch Williams story, but their relationship is described in a Maxim piece that brings up some of Schilling's more in-your-face behavior over the years. I now have a better understanding of why some people find him easy to hate. However, that slumpbusters anecdote about Mark Grace is like something outta Ball Four.
Thanks for posting that, rcade. If anything, I like Schilling more after having read it. But that guy sure does have a potty mouth for a Jesus freak. :-)
That is awesome. I still can't decide if Schilling is a dick in a good way or a bad way, but he's not boring.
Damn, he is a candid bastard. I think I'd enjoy having a few beers with him.
You go out and fornicate with a woman who might be of less than appealing visual quality I guess is the way to put it. That got me giggling for a while.
I seem to recall vehemently really hating Schilling in the '93 World Series. Of course, I was eleven years old, and we won anyway.
Most Athletes who thank the Lord after a game are thanking him for getting through the game. For their performance, not for winning. I would like to think that their are people on the other side thanking the Lord for getting through. Warner is a very vocal Christain off the field and I think that has ruffled some of his critics. His comments to the Christian press at the Super Bowl is a prime example of that. I too like what Schilling has said and I appreciate the discussion here. In the age of permormance enhauncing steriods etc itc nice hearing an athlete give the credit to the person (God) who give everybody their talents.
I like him more after reading that article.
I used to be worried about Ortiz at first, but no more than I am worried about Manny in left. I agree, I would worry more about Manny in left than Papi at first. If the Sox are so concerned about the D at first, they should be playing Dougy boy at first. His is one of the best defensive 1B in the League. Given the chance to play everyday, he can hit. The problem with the Twins tis year is that he was hurt and was being pushed by Mourneau, who is the power hitter the Twins need. (Now that Papi is a Red Sox). Dougy Boy is the real deal. I hope that the Red Sox realize it.. He does have a big mouth at times!
From the aforelinked Maxim Schilling interview: ROUND 6: Is the Padres' Ben Davis an asshole? He's the guy who broke up your perfect game with an eighth-inning bunt. That just shocked me. I know Ben Davis didn't walk to the plate saying, "I'm gonna lay down a bunt to get the tying run on first base." If it was Tony Gwynn or Rickey Henderson, guys who play the game rightthen maybe. The D'backs were only leading that game by two runs. Forgive me for saying this, oh baseball gods, but that was a brilliant play by Davis. I didn't see anyone else's ass getting on base that night. For a 6-4 catcher to pull the bunt out of his ass to get the tying run on base was inspired. God forbid people still try and win games. For a little clarity, here's a link on the subject from USA Today right after it happened.
The Yankees were all popping out weakly. Most of them said his stuff was no better than game 1, when they lit him up. The difference wasn't his stuff, it was location. Without location he'll get hammered. Look, the yankees, st. louis, these are good hitters, and he shut them both down. I know you're on a "he doesn't have good stuff" kick, but the proof is in the pudding. The man can pitch. Good pitching will beat good hitting (most of the time), and that's what you're seeing. The thing that makes me maddest is that he could be done for the series, Ortiz could hit 4 HRs, and they'd still give Schilling the MVP. Well, Ortiz had no problem getting mvp in the yankees series. If schilling comes back it will probably be for a 6 or 7th game, and a win would probably be the series clencher. If he's lights out in that game like he was last night he'll deserve mvp as much as anyone. The ankle, 4 errors, and he still wins? The cruelest thing that could happen to Boston is to win the Series. I'll agree with the others when I say that for true fans, at least speaking for myself, there's no truth in that statement. It would just be a fantastic moment, but being a red sox fan for me wouldn't change a bit. Sex is pretty special the first time too, but it's not bad the second time either.
It wouldn't be the cruelest thing to win the Series. It would, however, be the cruelest thing to NOT win the Series. Especially this year. After everything they overcame to get here. And last year. I will be honest and make a confession. I don't know what life would be like after the Red Sox won. I've been thinking about it since last Thursday morning. I mean, yeah, "happy" and "good" and "fantastic", all of those would apply. But winning it all, after all these years and all these generations pining for it... and we're so close right now... it's a concept I can't wrap my brain around. (I was a little female child in 1986, so there's a good chance I was playing barbies or watching Smurfs the last time the Red Sox were in the World Series. While I remember them losing, I obviously didn't follow the team or have any inkling of the pain first hand... at the time.)
Speaking of "mystique," Schilling will be dead of mouth cancer in less than 10 years. All that effort to win the World Series and committing slow suicide in the process.
Thanks for posting that, rcade. If anything, I like Schilling more after having read it. But that guy sure does have a potty mouth for a Jesus freak. :-) posted by psmealey at 6:03 PM CST on October 25 I read the Maxim article. Interesting that people who say they are a Christian get labled "jesus freaks" Most arfter reading the Maxum article, might conclude, that Schilling is using the "christian claim" for publicity. The fact that schilling says he had been one for six years might could and should raise some eyebrows. The Maxum piece shows some language that one might not. consider "christian" Christains, especially ones in the limelight, like to please all people and try to play all ends of the spectrum. His admission to being a christain suprized a lot of people, as this seems to be the first time he bought it up. I know many in the Christian Press were surprized. I will not attempt to decide if he is or isnt a christain. There is only one that can truely decide that. All in all, It was a gutsy perfromance, actually two gutsy performances that will go down in history. Are they being over hyped?? Yes but what isnt these days. Look how fox uses the World Series to plugged thier TV shows. They other night, the cast members of "that seventy's show" looked liked they were freezing to death. They didnt look like they were having a good time. All of this for 4-5 seconds of "on air" time. Tom Hanks was there too, at least he looked like he wanted to be there. The whole TV coverage thing its all about hype., It not really about the sport anymore its about how much mileage you can get out of the story!
Schilling will be dead of mouth cancer in less than 10 years. All that effort to win the World Series and committing slow suicide in the process. This is pretty much what my wife (a nurse) said when she saw him pitching on TV. "Stupid" was her exact word.
The latest soxaholix deals with life after (possibly) winning the world series.
Maybe he's Christian like Tony Soprano.
Tony Soprano, thats a strectch!
Hey, that was meant to be tongue in cheek, daddisamm, just playing on the stereotype. Hence the :-). I have no problem with Schilling's beliefs or his articulations thereof, and have fairly consistently defended him for it. What he says with regard to his faith is always said respectfully, and not exploitative, self-serving or evangelical. Contrast that with Michael Chang, Chris Carter, Kurt Warner, etc..
That mouth cancer stuff is horrifying. I can't believe people do that stuff, or that businesses cater to that crowd. Anyone who works for a tobacco company should be forced by law to use their product all the time.
psmealey--I know it was tongue in cheeck--I was going to put a "lol" behind my comment.----schilling is a very interesting figure to say the least. would you agree that the story is getting a little more hype than its deserves????
That mouth cancer stuff is horrifying. I can't believe people do that stuff, or that businesses cater to that crowd. Anyone who works for a tobacco company should be forced by law to use their product all the time. rcade, any cancer stemmimg from habits or activities that can be prevented is maddening. I am ex cigarette smoker who start smoking cigars thinking that cigars were safer cause you dont usually inhale. I developed lung Cancer anyway. To a non-tobacco user, quitting looks easy and for many it is. My cancer was linked to other things besides smoking. Mouth cancer is frightening as you can loose pieces and parts of your face!!!!!
Ready for a little more nitpicking? The Cards are upset they got shitty hotel rooms (Quincy Marriot) during the Head of the Charles weekend in Boston.
I chewed tobacco for 8 years, and started smoking cigarettes (for 4 years) to wean myself off of the dip. (Smart, huh?) Chew and snuff are deadly addictive. Even after 5 years of being completely tobacco free, I don't miss the cigarettes at all, but I still crave the Kodiak. I can sympathize.
If you're well enough to play, then you shouldn't even talk about your injury. Schilling would get more respect by just saying, 'I'm good enough to play, and that's all that matters.' Instead, he tries to make us all marvel at how much adversity he has overcome.
psmealy: To those that think the curse makes us Sox fans feel special about ourselves, and our team, you simply don't get it. We want to win this series more than anything, and when the curse ends, so fucking be it. If they never have another winning season, I will still be a Sox fan.... and if they win it every years, I won't take it for granted. That may well be the case for your regular, Joe Sixpack Bosox fan. But I don't think you can overlook the fact that there's a cottage industry that's sprung up among many of New England's media and literary types, built around the idea of Sox fans as nobly suffering Calvinists. Earlier this month--I think it was during the Sox/Angels series--one of the networks did a brief interview with Stephen King, and he pretty much admitted that if the Sox won it all, a lot of what makes them special for him would vanish. He mentioned the Phillies, and the fact that they became "just another team" after their 1980 WS win. If the Sox win it all, I suspect that people like King, and Doris Kearns Goodwin, and (it goes without saying) the CHB will be *extremely* bummed.
Instead, he tries to make us all marvel at how much adversity he has overcome. I'd whole-heartedly agree, except that his sock was filling up with blood. That's pretty hard to ignore. It's like when Kariya got knocked-the-f*ck-out in Game 6 of the 2003 Stanley Cup finals by Scott Stevens. Everyone saw him lying there on the ice, not moving at all. And yet, he comes back later that game to score a goal, get two assists, and help force the series to Game 7. I had no problem listening to how he had to overcome the dizzyness and headaches. Same as I have no problem listening to Schilling explain how he had to overcome the pain and discomfort of a previously-untested medical experiment. It's not really bragging in my books. He had to overcome adversity, and he's explaining it to the people who asked the question about it. If he's doesn't say anything about it, he gets the Barry-Bonds treatment: they call him "surly" and rip him apart for not giving a good interview. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. But I don't expect much else from the media...
I didn't know that Stephen King had said that. Oh, well. I guess I'll have to consider him just a foul weather, as they case may be, fan. Interesting perspective on that, though. He does write a lot about how every new spring brings new hope in New England for the Sox faithful. I share the sentiment, but I don't share his fatalism. I still want my boys to get the ring, even if it means triggering Armageddon, just as I did in 1976, 1986 and the handful of times they won the division or got to the playoffs between 1988 and last year. I wonder, if you were to go back in time and ask a Brooklyn Dodgers fan after in 1956 if they were depressed to finally have beaten the Yanks in the series, what would they have said?
(doh: 1975)
Sox fans as nobly suffering Calvinists. I realize the national media may suggest this, but Brahmin != Sox fan in my experience. If you're looking for a religious relationship with the Sox, go with Jansenism.
Btw, meanwhile back on topic, I was watching ESPN this morning, and while I can't vouch for the truth of it, they reported that the doctors were saying that Schilling might not be able to go out for game 6 because there might not be enough skin left to do the souchering procedure. I don't know about you all, but if that's true, its difficult if not impossible for me to say that this story is being overhyped (to say nothing of disgusting).
You know, it may sound insignificant, but if the Red Sox can't convince a hotel to hold rooms for it, maybe they need a new goddamned traveling secretary. And it sure as hell can't take 20-30 fucking minutes to get to the hotel, Boston Herald, if you're sitting in the team bus for 20 minutes waiting to get out, can it? I can guarantee you where the Red Sox are staying -- either the Adam's Mark or the Radisson, which are a whopping block away from Busch or less. I also guarantee you they have late room service, and either hotel booking manager would have been found floating in the Mississippi if they had stiffed the Cards.
Room service? They couldn't find anyone in Massachusetts willing to deliver a pizza to a hotel full of multi-millionaires?
Well, Prince Valium, if I were a Cardinal I wouldn't trust any food given to me by someone just off the street, in the Boston metro area. :) I also don't buy the claim they couldn't get rooms any closer- these are millionaires as you say; unless there's some weird rule against it, I'd just grab a cab, go near the stadium, and try to find a hotel that was open. Why do they have to find a block of 25 rooms in the same hotel? Sheesh. If closeness were that important, you find someone in a nice hotel, and give them a few grand if they'll give up their room and go stay somewhere else. It'd cost you about as much money as you'll make in single at-bat...
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if the Red Sox can't convince a hotel to hold rooms for it, maybe they need a new goddamned traveling secretary Err, you call up next year a couple weeks before the Head of the Charles when many of the million or so colleges in Boston hold Parents' Weekend and see how many contiguous blocks of rooms are available in decent hotels, since they're probably all booked 6-12 months in advance for that weekend. I realize this is the Internet and that means you're a scholar and expert in Boston hotel room reservations and there's no chance this is just an unfortunate situation a good team might use as motivation, but there you go.
If he's doesn't say anything about it, he gets the Barry-Bonds treatment: they call him "surly" and rip him apart for not giving a good interview. I disagree. If he doesn't say anything, he would be admired all the more, by everyone, including the press. Because of the fact that everyone already knows he is hurting, it would be to his benifit to not dramatize the whole story by telling the world how bad it hurts when he gets out of bed in the morning and how shocked his wife must have been to see him actually take the mound. That's soap opera crap. I admire the man. I admire his effort. However, it appears to me, as it does to many others, that he is deliberately seeking sympathy. It seems that Schill wants us all to gush over his heroism. I would simply find it more admirable if he would just shut up and let his pitching and the blood on his sock do the talking.
An email Q&A with Schilling courtesy of the Boston Dirt Dogs and the Boston Globe.
I can't believe it. People are actually saying that it's not a big deal that Schilling pitched through this injury? This injury could end his career. He should be in surgery TODAY. He should have been in surgery the day it happened. But he wanted to pitch. He wanted his team to advance, and he wanted to be one of the guys who pushed them forward. How is he not a hero? Yeah, Womack had back spasms, and I absolutely applaud him for playing. But he got taken out, he's benched for now. Schilling shouldn't be playing right now, but he is, because that's how badly he wants this. He's putting his health and his career on the line because right now this is more important to him. That's heroic.
That's heroic. Playing through pain and injury is something that's been done by multitudes of athletes in every sport at every level. Calling it heroic is silly.
Agreed that many players do play through their injuries. But I really believe that there are precious few players who would be willing to risk ending their careers by playing just one more game, and then do it again a few days later, then again. I don't think there are many professional athletes who would say "You know, this injury is really bad, and could possibly debilitate me to the point that i couldn't play (my sport) anymore after today, but right now, THIS is what matters, this is more important than me, my injury, anything. My team is everything, and I want to do my part." Curt is doing that, and he will continue doing it until the Red Sox are finished in this Series.
If the doctor says your injury is "career-threatening" and "debilitating", and then you go out and pitch on it twice with little to no ill effect, was it really "career-threatening" and "debilitating"?
I realize this is the Internet and that means you're a scholar and expert in Boston hotel room reservations Here is the response from my friend, who is a sales manager with a high-end hotel in St. Louis and is familiar with the situation -- the Hyatt screwed up big time, and the fact the traveling secretary didn't call them out on it is weak. The Red Sox guarantee them 81 nights of probably 30 rooms at a minimum, and at a pretty premium price. For them to dump those reservations is a huge mistake, and any sales manager would quickly move the group that took the rooms to another hotel, which is known as "walking" guests. In a choice between regatta guests and a major-league baseball team, the regatta loses. My friend has also been to the Quincy Marriott recently, and said the trip from there to the ballpark would take about 30 minutes, 20 if you drove the whole way in the breakdown lane. The Cardinals apparently arrived back around 2 a.m. and were able to get bar food. Do I blame the complete collapse of the Cardinals on a lousy hotel? Of course not, nor do I think McCormick did it on purpose. What he failed to do, however, was do his best to rectify the situation. Either he screwed up the reservations and he's a knob, he didn't push to get the Cardinals back into the hotel when the Hyatt screwed up, and he's a knob, or he doesn't have the clout to get the situation rectified ... and he's a knob. By the way, a couple other interesting tidbits: *My buddy said he shook hands with Pedro and Manny today and they were both great guys. Pedro signed autographs for everyone under the age of 10. *Derek Lowe and Theo Epstein chose to walk to Busch Stadium today instead of taking a cab for the block or so drive. *Biggest moneymaker for the hotels, on top of the room service, dry cleaning and all that? Phone calls to the Dominican Republic.
