February 4, 2008

Bob Knight Resigns : from Texas Tech in midseason after 902 career wins.

read story | posted by TheQatarian to Basketball at 9:03 PM CDT (65 comments total)

Interesting timing for this, but Knight never played by everyone else's rules. For all of his negatives, he's a great coach who got his kids to graduate as well as play good basketball. And the media will certainly miss his frequent blowups, though they sometimes deserved it.

I recall back in 1997, when the Gophers were making their run to the Final Four (which didn't happen according to NCAA history, though I remember seeing it). The Gophers had just crushed Indiana to the tune of 101-51, and the local media was trying to get Knight to gush about star guard Bobby Jackson. One reporter asked Knight which player from the Gophers he would want on his team, and he answered John Thomas, the Gophers' center. The reporter asked why not Jackson, and Knight looked him square in the eyes and said calmly, "Because I know more about basketball than you do."

Indeed.

posted by TheQatarian at 9:10 PM CDT on February 4

one of the greatest 'love/hate' people ever in sports--I personally did not
like his 'style' but I admire VERY much how he got his kids an education
no other coach I can think of ever had a graduation rate that he had year after year
that is the essence of s student/athlete

posted by jim222 at 9:52 PM CDT on February 4

The best of times and the worst of times. That was Bob Knight. He could be a ranting, aggressive, pain in the kester. He also had great integrity and instilled discipline in his players. Gus"It's a lovers quarrel"Ganakas at Michigan State was the other end of the coaching spectrum and I'll take Knight over that any day. Bob Knight may have been ramrod tough, but he gave a lot more to the game and his players than he took away.

posted by sandskater at 11:39 PM CDT on February 4

Great anecdote, Qatarian.
Best wishes to Knight. He certainly had his faults, like all of us, and there are certainly other legitimate "good" ways to coach without using his style. But, the highest compliment I can think to provide is that I would've had my kid play for him, without question.

posted by littleLebowski at 6:02 AM CDT on February 5

posted by terrapin at 6:16 AM CDT on February 5

Ooops. That was supposed to be a link to the 1997 Final Four teams

posted by terrapin at 6:29 AM CDT on February 5

So he quit on his kids in the middle of a season and I'm supposed to think, "Wow, he's such a rebel!"

Jerk.

posted by wfrazerjr at 6:50 AM CDT on February 5

Im not saying anything that hasnt been said of him already, but being from indiana, i want to offer my own tribute. He aroused more polerized opinion than any other figure in this state. Yet for all the contraversy he was always surrounded in, he never once had an ncaa violation against his team. His graduation rate was off the charts, and his players stayed out of trouble both on and off the court. He was a drill sergeant in a day when it was no longer in style. He shaped cocky kids with tallent, and some with less, into men of charecter, and self confidence. His charity went mostly unnoticed. Like when he got his friend red aurbach to draft landon turner, an indiana player and long-time celtics fan who had been paralyzed in a car accident. Like the unimaginable dollars he poored into charitys in indiana, and nation-wide, without fanfair.
Yes bob knight is far from perfect. His outbursts, and tendancy for the physical are part of the package, but any coach of any sport could learn alot from what he has given to basketball, to the fans and to the world around him. I wish him a happy retirement, and the best of luck to his son pat, as he tries to fill those battle-ship sized shoes at texas tech.

posted by elijahin24 at 6:54 AM CDT on February 5

Ask Neil Reed what a great coach he was.

posted by wfrazerjr at 7:08 AM CDT on February 5

Frazerjr, you can find one failed case for dean smith, or john wooden too. For that matter you can find one from any coach or teacher who has delt with kids. Sometimes its the coaches fault, sometimes the kid. People wash out of bobby bowdens football program and nobody accuses him of being as tough as knight. You can hate him as much as you want. I wont argue, anymore with you, because i can see your mind is made up to hate him. you're entitled to that. I never said knight was perfect. I acknowledged his flaws. Objectivity lends credibility. Seeing only the bad in someone costs you credibility.

posted by elijahin24 at 7:16 AM CDT on February 5

Another great Knight media rip I just remembered: During an NCAA tournament in the early 90's (I forget exactly which year, and I'm too lazy to look it up), Knight had this exchange with Lesley Visser after Indiana had won a second-round game against Temple:

Visser: So how did you guys beat Temple today?
Knight (with a look and a tone of voice that suggests "You are a complete moron"): We scored more points than they did. I don't know how you could possibly have missed that.

Visser, to her, credit, brushed it off like a good sport and continued, but that line and his delivery of it always cracked me up.

posted by TheQatarian at 7:28 AM CDT on February 5

After all his years coaching, why quit in the middle of the season? What would he tell one of his players about having enough character to not quit at halftime? Well I'm tired coach. Seems hypocritical to me.

posted by Familyman at 8:02 AM CDT on February 5

Click here to listen to a Bobby Knight halftime speech, and other funny sports audio.

posted by Bill Lumbergh at 8:08 AM CDT on February 5

Guys lets not discount the possibility that its health-related. Knight wouldnt say if it is. He tends to keep quiet about things like that, and it isnt like him to just up and quit.

posted by elijahin24 at 8:23 AM CDT on February 5

Knight is 67 years old, and he must not be feeling really great to leave during the season. His son said he's just very tired, and I wouldn't wish health problems on anyone. But Bobby Knight doesn't owe college basketball anything. As John Wooden said, he's one of the greatest teachers of the game there's ever been. Regardless of the way he acted and came across to the public or the media, the vast majority of his players seemed to be tremendously loyal to him and have the utmost respect for him. I'm sure some of his tactics went overboard, but I doubt he's the only coach included in that category. He just happens to be the one who attracts the most attention to himself for his public antics.

posted by dyams at 8:55 AM CDT on February 5

dyams, i would add to that, that the reason he attracts that attention is that he doesnt try to be someone different in front of the camera than he is on the side-line (like rick pitino, or even mike kuzaruxski (who's old enough to remember this commercial?) Im not saying its good to be a dick, but some guys have themselves, and they have their "tv" selves. At least knight is genuine.

posted by elijahin24 at 9:14 AM CDT on February 5

Being a "genuine" jerk doesn't make someone a better person.

posted by Familyman at 9:30 AM CDT on February 5

Thanks, dyam.
The man has been in a career for 42 years. In most cases that career is 24/ 7 ,365 days a year.
For anybody to hint at hypocracy is totally out of wack. Some of his tactics were overboard and I think that proves Bob Knight is as far from a hypocrate as anyone can possibly be. He did not care what the media thought, or for that matter anyone else. BK stood for the right things and did not let trends and fades comprise his values. Bob Knights end did justify the means. Maybe Bob thought he was not a benefit to the team and Pat would do a better job so he stepped down, he told Pat he was tired after the game on Saturday per Pat.
As I watched him on the TV on Saturday I noticed that he was looking very bad physically and was possibly worn -out.
Maybe familyman and wfrazerji should do some research on the Landon Turner story, or research his past in regard to the support he has given his past players with finanacial support in starting their professional career after basketball. By the way he funded 2 university libraries vertually out of his pocket. One more thing of interest, when at Indiana he was the only active coach at the D-1 level to teach a ligitimate class. Bob Knight made men from boys, and was the greatest teacher in the game. The 87 national championship is proof of that.
It is a shame that the Neil Reed hick-up may be talked about more than his accomplishments. I think if you talk to any coach they have ALL had a Neil Reed incident.

posted by sportnut at 9:42 AM CDT on February 5

He was built to do exactly what he did. He may not have produced a ton of NBA all-stars, but there are places that shit out NBA stars by the dozen, discipline or offcourt knowledge be damned.

He did something better. He made college graduates out of schoolchildren, and he was way better at that than anyone else in the NCAA today. For anyone who ever thought "Hey, aren't these kids in school? Shouldn't they be learning shit instead of playing basketball every waking hour of the day?", Bobby Knight was your man.

You can hate his style, but you can't argue with the results.

posted by chicobangs at 10:34 AM CDT on February 5

After all his years coaching, why quit in the middle of the season?

His successor had already been named (his son, Pat), and according to his son Bob Knight was "getting tired". I see a parallel to retiring Congressmen or Senators leaving their seats early (between the election and the actual start of the next term) in order to give their elected successor the benefit of a little experience and extra seniority. In other words, Knight was going anyway, why not give his successor a chance to gain some experience.

I would be interested to see some statistics that compare Bob Knight's graduation rates to those of other coaches. My boss has this funny idea that I should be working for a living instead of web surfing, so I can't look them up right now.

posted by Howard_T at 10:48 AM CDT on February 5

Let us not forget that he recently racked up his 900th win. Do you suppose that was his goal for the season? Love him or hate him, you have to respect what he's accomplished over 42 seasons.

posted by Tinman at 11:00 AM CDT on February 5

I tend to think that if you really think about what it means to be a coach, and try to tune out the noise from the TV pundits, its hard to not respect Bob Knight. His positives seem to outweigh his negatives by so much. Forget the on court accomplishments. He turned boys to men.

posted by sfts2 at 11:15 AM CDT on February 5

It is a shame that the Neil Reed hick-up may be talked about more than his accomplishments. I think if you talk to any coach they have ALL had a Neil Reed incident.

I coached for 10 years. I can't come up with an incident where I attempted to strangle a player.

Please be more accurate.

posted by wfrazerjr at 11:17 AM CDT on February 5

Bill, that was truly a warm and fuzzy B. Knight moment.

My take on the situation is that Bobby just has some hunting to do.

posted by THX-1138 at 11:17 AM CDT on February 5

I coached for 10 years. I can't come up with an incident where I attempted to strangle a player.

Unless you coached your team in the biggest program in your state in the biggest sport in that state to close to 650 wins, including national championships, and 902 wins total, not counting gold medals in Olympics, etc., developed other coaches from Digger Phelps to Coach K who say he was the biggest influence in their lives, and players who love him to death, you're choosing to let a few events in a 42 year career be the reason you totally shit on the guy. It's obvious you don't like him, and that's your right, but don't act like you know everything about the guy, inside and out, by a few problems you see on SportsCenter. So the guy came across to many outsiders as a dick sometimes. He did go overboard. I tend to put more credibility in the words of the vast majority of players he coached and coaches he started in their own careers.

posted by dyams at 11:34 AM CDT on February 5

I would be interested to see some statistics that compare Bob Knight's graduation rates to those of other coaches.

I couldn't find it, although I found many websites raving about this stellar number that no one seems to know. I get the quaint feeling, though, that whatever his graduation rate actually is, Pat Summit has him beat.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 11:55 AM CDT on February 5

what I deem to be a non-event

The all-time wins leader in the history of men's major college basketball resigns out of nowhere and you consider it a non-event? Hmm.

posted by dyams at 12:33 PM CDT on February 5

My take on the situation is that Bobby just has some hunting to do.

Perhaps with a certain man-who-must-not-be-named in San Diego?

posted by lilnemo at 12:51 PM CDT on February 5

I really don't know what is ment by being more accurate, since Bob taped all of his practices it has been seen on many editions of sports center and every other sports show in history.
As is clear you don't like Bob and that is all right, there are many people in this world that don't like BK, AND HE COULD GIVE A DAMN. He did not coach for 42 years for an approval from you or any other person who is apparently biased.
He coached to win and develop young men that contributed something positive to society, and he accomplished that.
By the way BK has confirmed that Pat Summit runs the best basketball program in the country AND IS ON A COACHING PAR WITH THE BEST MENS COACHES IN THE COUNTRY. That is more respect than she gets from most of her male colleagues. I wouldn't know anything about her graduaton rate, because as was said I don't think there are any stats published. It would be interesting to see. I admire her allot also.

posted by sportnut at 1:32 PM CDT on February 5

Bob Knight doesn't go hunting. That would imply a chance of failure. Bob Knight goes killing.

God be with his "hunting" buddy.

posted by THX-1138 at 3:50 PM CDT on February 5

It's obvious you don't like him, and that's your right, but don't act like you know everything about the guy, inside and out, by a few problems you see on SportsCenter. So the guy came across to many outsiders as a dick sometimes. He did go overboard. I tend to put more credibility in the words of the vast majority of players he coached and coaches he started in their own careers.

Following that, listening to interviews of former players and coaches (whom i presume you don't know either) or the fact that he graduated his players doesn't qualify you to speak contrary to Frazer's opinion. We need to all admit we don't have much to go on here, unless we personally know them. There isn't in my mind any black and white answer. No one, or very few, are either a complete goat or hero. Knight is like everyone else in the respect that he has some good traits and some bad ones. Surely we can all agree about that.

posted by brainofdtrain at 3:58 PM CDT on February 5

Frazerjr, you can find one failed case for dean smith, or john wooden too.

Yeah, I can't tell you how many times we've tsk-tsked over Dean Smith choking a player, or John Wooden throwing a chair across the court, or Coach K mooning the Puerto Rican authorities out of an airplane window, or how Rick Pitino told a sold out fieldhouse, "when I die, I hope they bury me upside down, so the world can kiss my ass!"

There's also that time that Jim Calhoun simulated beating a Black player with a bullwhip, the time that Eddie Sutton simply had to reach out and pop a player on the chin (just to encourage him to keep his head up, of course), or the time that Denny Crum cussed out a whole room of reporters, because he was pissed off over losing a game he wasn't prepared for.

Yeah, those were some rollicking discussions, to be sure. Good times.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 4:03 PM CDT on February 5

Folding chairs all over the conference are heaving a huge sigh of relief.

posted by irunfromclones at 4:48 PM CDT on February 5

told a sold out fieldhouse, "when I die, I hope they bury me upside down, so the world can kiss my ass!"

You forgot the part where the entire sold out field house goes crazy with screaming and applause after he said it.

Face it, people will never agree on the guy. For every time he acted like an idiot, there's stories about him supporting a paralyzed man, or paying for a young person's tuition, etc. The only problem is focusing on the decent stuff he does (usually without any fanfare) isn't that much fun and doesn't get replayed over and over on TV. Knight is who he is, and as mentioned above, I've can't really recall him ever coming across as a phony. And all those coaches you mentioned in your example above have nothing but great things to say about Knight, with Coach K even going as far as to say that outside of his immediate family, no other person has had such a huge impact on his life than Bobby Knight, and even going so far as to say he loves him. I tend to side with the people who actually know the guy.

posted by dyams at 5:46 PM CDT on February 5

To answer the question, "Why now, in the middle of the season?", read this.

Excellent point dyams. Here is Coach Krzyzewski's quote, and more.

posted by canstusdis at 6:26 PM CDT on February 5

He's trying to pull a Don Nelson/Avery Johnson type of move... I still don't think that quitting fits in to what Bob Knight has been all about throughout his career. However, as others have pointed out, he has earned the right to leave on his own terms. He is one of the greatest coaches of all time, regardless of all the BS. No one could say that he wasn't passionate about his job...

posted by docshredder at 6:57 PM CDT on February 5

Best roundball coach ever, I would have loved to play for the man. Holds the record for chairthrow across a basketball court too.....

posted by aMAIZEd Mark at 7:05 PM CDT on February 5

I will just add this to all the previous takes. " SEE YA BOBBY, I'LL MISS YOU."

posted by Ironhead at 7:18 PM CDT on February 5

A coaching giant, but a mental midget. I don't know how he lost his job with the State department. I wouldn't want my kid to play for him, but I'd want him to read his book.

posted by Shotput at 7:27 PM CDT on February 5

902 reasons to like him. 902 reasons to hate him. That is Bob Knight's legacy.

posted by BlindAlvin at 8:01 PM CDT on February 5

902 Wins...Amazing. But good riddance. Like someone said earlier...just not my style.

posted by Hartsy at 9:27 PM CDT on February 5

you're choosing to let a few events in a 42 year career be the reason you totally shit on the guy.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

posted by grum@work at 11:57 PM CDT on February 5

I take great solice in the fact that bob knight could truly give a damn about anything negative that anyone in here has to say about him. He is flawed like everyone else. Hopefully everyone in here who is shitting all over him does as much good in their lives as he does. That would justify them bashing him, i suppose. Funny thing is, not one person has said BK is perfect. Most of us see him for what he is: a good man who has done great things that are mostly over-looked because of his own flaws. Some of us however can only see the bad in people. My guess is its because they have done nothing significant so they try to justify their own existance by putting down anyone they can. It isnt everyone who dislikes him. Some are just unaware of the good things. Maybe due to geography, or lack of interest, but some are just out to hate. katt williams says to "let the haters do they fuckin' job!!!" so have at it.

posted by elijahin24 at 1:12 AM CDT on February 6

He's saying his departure now gives Pat Knight a chance to coach the team for 10 games, get them ready for next year. Two Texas Tech starters, leading scorer Martin Zeno and Charlie Burgess, are seniors. Did they sign up for the end of their careers to be a valuable learning experience for next year's coach, possibly at the cost of a Tournament bid?

You think Knight would cotton to one of his players or coaches abandoning the team at midseason, with a Tournament bid still in play? No chance. That's not doing things the right way.

Bob Knight loves the right way, loves the rules. It's just that most of them have never applied to him.

Good riddance.

Gotta agree. Basically a hypocrite.

more.

posted by rumple at 1:59 AM CDT on February 6

Some of us however can only see the bad in people. My guess is its because they have done nothing significant so they try to justify their own existance by putting down anyone they can.

Wow. I had no idea your MOS was Amatuer Psychology. My problem earlier wasn't even with Knight, it was with your ridiculous statement comparing him to Dean Smith and John Wooden. Now, you bust out this gem. I'm going to guess that you don't personally know most of the people on this forum, or most of the others around the nation/blogosphere/mainstream sports media that have "shat all over him," so your half-baked analysis is utterly baseless and remarkably presumptuous.

By the way, you're not the only one who lives in Indiana, and the man has just as many detractors here as he does elsewhere. It's not like they're about to put him on the friggin' state flag or anything.

Bob Knight's last lesson to the kids: I'm tired, this isn't fun anymore, I'm quitting. See ya.

Psychoanalyze that.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 4:24 AM CDT on February 6

TBH, I guess you have the poll numbers on the people in Indiana who like or dislike BK. You always seem to ask for the facts, got them?
That was pretty harsh even toward toward someone you seem to have a bone to pick with.

posted by gfinsf at 6:45 AM CDT on February 6

Some of us however can only see the bad in people. My guess is its because they have done nothing significant so they try to justify their own existance by putting down anyone they can.

No, I'd say some people put more emphasis on being a good person than winning 902 games. I see plenty of bad in choking a player, throwing chairs and generally acting like a jackass whenever you see fit it because it suits you.

If you don't see it, maybe you should look into your own existence.

On preview: gfinsf, I don't have a poll, but I can say as a former newspaper publisher in the southern part of the state, Knight seemed to get about 60% approval from the people I knew, including HS basketball coaches.

posted by wfrazerjr at 7:36 AM CDT on February 6

TBH,
I have many many friends that have played for BK,I also have many friends who have competed against him, and true to form there is bad and good to say about the man, but when it comes down to the final evaluation of a person is there not bad and good to say about all of use. What gives you or anybody else the right to sit on top of the mountain and judge. Did you know the man, did you ever have an opportunity to converse with him, for that matter do you know anybody who knows him? BK is the NUMBER ONE WINNINGEST COACH IN NCAA HISTORY why would anyone not compare him to all the mentioned coaches. Fact be known most of those coaches in the last 2 days have come to the fore front and said he was the best college coach that ever coached the game. All of them said that they currently use a number of the things he taught them today.Most of them said that they went to 20 or more of his coaching clinics to learn how to be a better coach, from BOB NIGHT.
BY THE WAY, I lived in Indiana my whole life and played ball in high school and college there, DID YOU, and at one time his likeness could have been put on the state flag(tonue in cheek).
If you are from Indiana you know what happened to the Brand residence the day after he railroaded Bob Knight, he and his family had to leave the city under the dark of night. I guess all those BK detractors don't carry much weight do they.
The only positive thing that has happened with the IU basketball program since he left is they went to the final four with a team that was recruited by BOB KNIGHT.
The program was not investigated one time when BK was running the show, they have been investigated twice since then. Bob Knight has taught more positive lessons to more young adults than you will ever speak to period.
PSYCHOANALYZE THAT!!!
I apologize TBH for getting so passionate with someone as biased as you, it's a waste of time.
I rest my case.

posted by sportnut at 7:59 AM CDT on February 6

Since you have friends knowing BK so well, can you give us an insight as to what they thought and experienced under him? I'd be interested to hear it.

posted by jmd82 at 8:03 AM CDT on February 6

Calling Bob Knight a hypocrite is farther from the truth than anything that I have ever heard. There is no coach that is more passionate or caring about his players in the game. No one is is more concerned about doing things the right way. He was tired, not able to give it his best, and tried to do what was in the best interest of the program. As he always did. Yeah, his temper was a problem, but I believe that even the tirades were often scripted and designed to fire up his players and to get through to players that letting their own weakness get in the way of what they wanted to accomplish. Great coaches and great men do that. A flawed man, but a great one. IMHO

posted by sfts2 at 8:46 AM CDT on February 6

...
The evil that men do lives after them
The good is oft intered with their bones
So let it be with Caesar...

Shakespeare, Julius Caesar

So it seems to be with Bobby Knght.

I, for one, would rather praise him than bury him.

posted by Howard_T at 9:05 AM CDT on February 6

I apologize TBH for getting so passionate with someone as biased as you, it's a waste of time.

But you don't have a dog in the fight, right?

If you are from Indiana you know what happened to the Brand residence the day after he railroaded Bob Knight, he and his family had to leave the city under the dark of night.

That clearly indicates what dispassionate, informed analysis exists among the Bob Knighthood Fandom.

posted by yerfatma at 9:17 AM CDT on February 6

Wow. I had no idea your MOS was Amatuer Psychology

Ya know whats funny about this? i actually am a psych major, earning a 3.8 GPA right now. So yes TBH it is technicaly amature at this point, but not compleatly without basis. By the way, Psychoanalysis actually is not quite what the name implies. Psychoanalysis was freuds trademark. There are many parts to it but it primarily focuses on psychosexual development inwhich he would determin at what stage of childhood development your problem came from. I didnt do that. In fact i wouldnt do that because im not a freudian. While i appreciate the fact that he pretty much created my field, many other psychologists (a term that didnt exist before him) have advanced the field past anything he theorized. Many people in the field still worship at his shrine, but its mostly for the same reason that we overlook the flaws in the founding fathers of our country. Come back again next week. My secretary will set up the appointment.

posted by elijahin24 at 9:19 AM CDT on February 6

I had a friend who played for an Indianapolis school that went to Indiana in "71" and was able to get a national championship ring.
He was virtually a practice player his entire 4 years there but did get some playing time when he was needed due to injury.
The most positive thing he ever said about BK is that he was 100% honest with each of his players weather it be positive or negitive.
From the first day this guy was recruited(NCAA visit) he was told his roll on the team would be that of a practice player. But he was expected to give 100% as was every player on the squad, average or superstar. By the way he and his parents were told this on the visit.
He also said there were zero favorite players in the system. He was treated the same as the so-called superstars of the team.
I have another friend that is a former highschool teamate that was recruited by BK the year before and chose to attend another school due to BKs honesty. BK told him he would be just another player on the team and that his past success in high school would mean nothing the day he stepped on the floor to play for IU. This player did not to go to IU, but went on to break all the scoring records at Ball State Unversity. Years later BK was the first to admit that he made a mistake when recruiting this player, and he should have played for IU.
I have played with many players Wayne Raddford, Rodney Scott, Larry Bullington etc... who were recruited by or knew Bob and to a man they compliment him on his honesty. They all did not like him but I think they all respected him. Again BK is not perfect, but who of us is.
Most of the people I know at one time didn't see eye to eye with him but they always knew where they stood with him, because he was straight forward and honest. Tony Hinkle was a family friend and one of my mentors and he liked and respected BK and that is all I need to make my judgement on the man.

posted by sportnut at 10:41 AM CDT on February 6

sportnut, I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other about Bob Knight, but you're sort of repeating yourself here, so let me offer a couple of thoughts:

- Honesty and frankness counts for something, but if you're an honest and frank jerk, you're still a jerk, and your behavior is overall objectionable. It's perhaps not as objectionable as it could be, but as grandpa used to say, "This is not a competition to see who's the worst."

- Yes, everybody makes mistakes and nobody's perfect, but just as a single mistake doesn't cancel out a lifetime of accomplishment, so does a lifetime of accomplishment not make the consequences of a mistake vanish in a puff of smoke. Most times, the two don't have anything to do with one another. Furthermore, some mistakes and imperfections carry more weight than others. If you teach Sunday school and pick up litter and give a home to abandoned dogs and are generally a stand-up guy, and then one day you lose your temper and punch somebody in the head and break their jaw, you can't just say, "Nobody's perfect," and expect that it won't come into consideration when your character is judged.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 12:41 PM CDT on February 6

lbb,
I agree with you, the reason for my last and final entry was to give jm82 some insite on my personal experiences on the subject at his request.
I guess we will let time be the judge as to the jerk statis of BK. And again I guess it has allot to do with who is spinning the lable of jerk on an individual, somebody who knows something about the so-called jerk, or sombody who has no insite on the person except what they hear or read in the media.
One of the reasons the media did not like BK is because he made it very clear to them he did not like, or need them and I guess in this day and age that is suicide.
Because you and I know what is said on the media sports outlets and magazines are gospel, and are never one sided. HA HA!

posted by sportnut at 1:58 PM CDT on February 6

SN, I don't need the media to tell me a guy who throttles a player at a practice is a jerk. I don't the media to convince me that a guy who says, "I think that if rape is inevitable, relax and enjoy it," is an idiot.

Great basketball coach. Complete douchebag. These two things can coexist.

i actually am a psych major, earning a 3.8 GPA right now. So yes TBH it is technicaly amature at this point, but not compleatly without basis.

You're kidding, right?

posted by wfrazerjr at 7:36 AM CDT on February 7

wfrazerjr. Didn't you state in one of your entries you were at one time a member of that media that BK made hamburger out of at nearly ever press conference he had. Did BK shun you in a press conference or something because you really hate him I would like to here your personal experince on that matter. I guess now is a good time to kick him when you don't have to face him in a press conference anymore. Is that how you coached your team of grad schoolers, kick the other team when they can't compete back?
Like I said I would think that every coach that coaches at a NCAA Division 1 school has the same type of moment with a player(Neil Reed) at one time in his career, especially when you coach for 42 years. WE all know BK was not an angle by any means but he was not a douch bag, but maybe you know more than I do, after all you were a membr of the upstanding ,nonbiased press.
When the incident occured the majority of BKs collegues expressed that very thing. They said they had all had physical contact with a player or two in practice or a game. Infact last year BK had contact with a player during a game and the press tried their best to get the parents of that player to speak negitively about the incident, and what they said was they would hope Bob would do it again if their son needed it, and they were quite pleased that the young man went to TT and was going to return. Why did you not state that?

posted by sportnut at 8:49 AM CDT on February 7

Wow, sportnut, nothing like starting a comment with four sentences of irrelevant and farcical personal attacks to lend weight to your argument.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 8:54 AM CDT on February 7

I think he's actually Bobby Knight. Gotta do something with all the spare time.

sportnut, you can attack me all you want to, but I believe Knight, as it was so eloquently stated before, is a "douchebag." You can scream from the highest mountaintop that he's the epitome of human greatness, but that doesn't make it so; same thing goes for us who don't like the guy. Me saying he's a douchebag doesn't make it so. It's an opinion, on a sports website. You taking it way too personally, then launching attacks, isn't helping your point.

Also, Knight was not being compared to Dean Smith and John Wooden above as far as coaching excellence goes. He was compared to them in such a way that suggested that they've also acted like little punks in public throughout their career. I disagreed. I don't think you'll ever find a statement from me saying that Bobby Knight is a bad coach. I may have said he was a bad human being, but I don't think I've ever questioned his coaching greatness.

The most positive thing he ever said about BK is that he was 100% honest with each of his players weather it be positive or negitive.

So, this guy played for Knight for four years, and the most positive thing he could say was that Knight was honest, be it positive or negative? Think of the people you've known, who've made a difference in your life over the past four years. Is He was really honest with me, whether I liked it or not the best you can come up with to describe those people? If so, maybe you and I just choose to use a different set of descriptors.

If you are from Indiana you know what happened to the Brand residence the day after he railroaded Bob Knight, he and his family had to leave the city under the dark of night.

You say that like it's some kind of validation. It's not. It's because some misguided jackasses decided that the basketball coach was worth threatening Brand's life, as well as the lives of his wife and children. High class stuff, to be sure.

I apologize TBH for getting so passionate with someone as biased as you, it's a waste of time.

Thankfully, you make up for my bias by being the very picture of objectivity and decorum.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 10:00 AM CDT on February 7

I guess now is a good time to kick him when you don't have to face him in a press conference anymore. Is that how you coached your team of grad schoolers, kick the other team when they can't compete back?

You like Bobby Knight, there's no shame in that. Unfortunately, you're acting like Bobby Knight while defending him. Dial it down a notch and talk to other people like they might be human beings with different opinions. Still not a crime.

posted by yerfatma at 10:17 AM CDT on February 7

Didn't you state in one of your entries you were at one time a member of that media that BK made hamburger out of at nearly ever press conference he had. Did BK shun you in a press conference or something because you really hate him I would like to here your personal experince on that matter.

No, I didn't. I was a publisher in Indiana after Knight had already been run out of Bloomington. He never did anything personally to me.

In fact, most of the press members who spoke of Knight praised him as a basketball mind, and I don't think there's much dispute of that. However, most of them also said he was a miserable human being. I'll take their word over that of the people who threatened Myles Brand's family, thanks.

I guess now is a good time to kick him when you don't have to face him in a press conference anymore. Is that how you coached your team of grad schoolers, kick the other team when they can't compete back?

I assume you meant to say "grade schoolers", but given your inability to string together a sentence without several grammatical errors, maybe I shouldn't.

I coached every level from grade schoolers up through American Legion and elite high school baseball. I taught my kids to play hard, play fair and respect both themselves and their opponents. I think Knight fulfilled those same objectives -- he just couldn't bring himself to do it. He's a hypocrite.

When the incident occured the majority of BKs collegues expressed that very thing. They said they had all had physical contact with a player or two in practice or a game.

Have a link for this? I don't remember an outpouring of support for Knight in the aftermath of the incident. What I do remember is several players and a trainer coming forward to say the incident never happened -- and then shutting the hell up when the video came out.

If you haven't had the chance to see it, SN, here's your hero in action. Feel free to keep defending him.

posted by wfrazerjr at 11:35 AM CDT on February 7

i actually am a psych major, earning a 3.8 GPA right now. So yes TBH it is technically amature at this point, but not completely without basis.

You're kidding, right?

I am in fact not joking. Nor am i exaggerating. And sportsnut not withstanding Coach knight really does have adamant support from perfectly normal, chemically balanced people in this state.
I believe there are very few true douche bags in this world. Most people have multiple sides to who they are. For example a high school teacher may be a caring and engaged mentor while at work, but get hammered at party's on the weekend, out of sight of his students. A drill sergeant may be a complete bastard while hes training privates to be soldiers, but go home to his wife and kids and be a loving husband, and the "fun parent."
In the case of bob knight, he is a disciplinarian. He is a passionate competitor. he often takes his passion for both of those things way to far. He doesn't like the media, because he feels that they corrupt the game and the athletes who play it, so he takes his frustration out on them, and again goes way to far. This side of him is the douche bag side. Then there is the side of him who is fiercely loyal to his players. the side that will go out of his way to help them with any problem they might have. there is also the educator who pays for the building of libraries, the joker who arranged a woopie cushion being placed on rival coach gene keady's seat. The bull whip, by the way, was given to him by his senior class that year, which was 4/5 black, and lead to calbert cheanys whipping him with a towel at courtside.
Yes he absolutely has a douche bag side. and yes it is what most people see of him, but the fact is we all have that side, and most of us give in to sometimes. some more than others, but all are guilty. How many celebrity's do we see being a humanitarian in public only to find out later that privately they are bastards? Why is it such a stretch to think that the opposite can be true?

posted by elijahin24 at 1:43 PM CDT on February 7

If you haven't had the chance to see it, SN, here's your hero in action. Feel free to keep defending him.

Fraze, you're off-base on this one. As your video shows, that player clearly ran right into Bobby Knight's hand (which was outstretched, shielding his eyes from the glaring sun). It looked like a headbutt sure, nope, wrong again, it was BK's way of saying "let's put our heads together". And don't get me started about that chair, That chair was a pure shit-talker, it didn't care who BK was. It just kept yappin and flappin it's gums.

It's us fraze, we're just wrong about that guy. If the glove don't fit....

posted by BoKnows at 2:05 PM CDT on February 7

Thanks for the link, I don't know what you read but I saw as much positive about BK as negitive.
In fact most of the contributors were more frustrated with SI/CNN than they were with BK for the timing of the articles. MANY more people supported Bob than degraded him.
That said, yerfatma is right, everybody has a different opinion and I get too aggresive on many issues.

posted by sportnut at 2:11 PM CDT on February 7

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