Many Michigan fans are arguing that they should have the right to be in the National Championship game vs. Ohio State. I haven't heard one argue that they would win that game, as at least a few bold Florida fans have. An interesting point. I understand that a lot of the hatred and vitriol in this argument comes from college football's tendency to cause people to shut their brains down and rely on pure passion when arguing; however, I will posit a few questions that must be answered before I comment further. To Michigan: 1. Exactly why do you deserve to be in the national championship game? As I understand it, mainly because you were the #3 in the polls coming in to the game and with the loss of USC, you became effectively Numero Dos. All right let me amplify this question-why did you deserve to be #2? The Big Ten was mediocre this year at best, and your best win was against Notre Dame (who many of you disparage)(yes, I am aware of the Wisconsin game. For all those arguing about Wisconsin being in the BCS, who has Wisconsin played? What have they done to deserve that award? The best win on that schedule may be Penn State; we have not seen Wisconsin play enough quality teams to get a good gauge of where this team is. Besides, you shouldn't be playing in the BCS if you are third in your conference). You did come within 3 of OSU, but they dominated that game far more than the scoreboard showed. Florida, to their credit, has played a difficult schedule, even though they haven't always dominated it like a national championship caliber team should. Basically, Big Blue, what is your signature win of the year? I don't trust poll position because I don't trust polls, and a lot of teams are awarded positions in a poll without earning. What have you guys really done to earn number two? 2. What have you done since Nov 18th to indicate that you would do something different than what happened that day? What defensive adjustments you have made that would tell me you could handle OSU? Your vaunted defense allowed 500 yards and 40 points to OSU. Why should we think it will be any different? Has the back seven learned how to tackle yet, and learned about cut off angles? To Florida: 1. Fine, you are in the national championship game, congratulations. Now justify yourselves. Which Florida team will show up? The one that beat LSU and Arkansas, or the one that almost gagged to South Carolina? Yes, you have played the toughest schedule in the nation, and beaten some impressive teams. However, you have often gotten by against lesser teams. Was this fluke or trend? Another question-what will you do to stop Ohio State? I know your defense is amazing so far, however, you haven't played Troy Smith, and I doubt you have faced an offense as multidimensional and dangerous as this one. Will you be able to contain this offense? 2. Can your offense keep it together? The O hasn't been the most spectacular part of your team this year, and they need to be prepared to have the game of their lives against what is generally thought to be one of the best defenses around (I'm not sure about that after the 18th). Can Chris Leak keep it together to make a game of this? I doubt you can have Tim Tebow carry the ball enough to be victorious. And while gimmick plays may work well, you cannot rely on them. Pure and simple, Florida-can you match up well enough against the No 1. team in the nation to hang on, and not turn this into an even bigger mess than it is?
I'm not much of a college football fan, and when I see proclamations from voters saying that they thought Michigan was the better team and deserved to be #2 but they put Florida at #2 because they didn't want to watch a rematch - well, it doesn't exactly make me like college football any more. If Florida had dominated their game, I would have understood this vote a little more. But they didn't dominate at all. Florida won, but it was a competitive game till the end.
Central Michigan, Ball State, and Vanderbilt graced Michigan's non-conference schedule, sdd. Your point is rendered null and void. Heaven forbid the Lions ever become contenders.... Actually redliner Central Michigan (9-4) won the MAC Championship and I believe Florida played Vanderbilt (4-8) as well in which they won by a score of 19 to 25 whereas Michigan beat them by a score of 27 to 7. And as far as Ball St. (5-7) well I would imagine they could handily beat a (2-9) Western Carolina team who was one of the worst teams in Div I-AA. You also forgot to metion that Michigan played a Notre Dame team (10-2), who yes I believe is way overrated, but nonetheless are still playing in a BCS bowl and beat them by 26. You played a decent Southern Miss team (8-5) and beat them rather handily and an awful Central Florida team (4-8) and and a horrible Western Carolina team which I would be embarrassed to even call a win.
A. U of M president recently outraged over passage of state proposal outlawing college admission policies promoting diversity. B. U of M "family" outraged that championship game participants chosen in a fashion that favors national interest in diversity of the participants. Wolverines: Figure out which side of the fence you're on. Most qualified? Or most beneficial sample?
Personally I'd see it as a 3 way split. So, it's a 3 way split between Florida, Ohio State and Michigan if Florida beats Ohio State, who beat Michigan? Also, has it ever happened that one school held both the football and basketball titles at the same time, as Florida has the chance of doing?
I think the BCS got it right this time. The entire point of the BCS is not to decide who the second best team is. It is supposed to figure out who the #1 team is. We already know it isn't Michigan because they just lost to the #1 team (Ohio State). So, let's give Florida (another impressive one-loss team) a shot to see if Ohio State is really the best team in the country.
I still can't get Boise State out of my mind, since the WAC is part of the BCS and they finished undefeated. The WAC's not a BCS conference. The six members are the ACC, Big 12, Big East, Big Ten, Pac 10 and SEC (and Notre Dame).
jakegood, I have no Florida allegiance, and neither Florida's nor Michigan's non-conference was anything to brag about, however, almost all the scribes, pundits, talking heads, blah blah blah, anyone with eyes, can see that Florida played perhaps the most difficult schedule in the country. Plus, they won their conference championship game, which, I reiterate, everyone knew that that is what the Michigan-OSU clash was.
The WAC's not a BCS conference. The BCS conferences are these, but the six big conferences get automatic bids.
I forgot to mention as for strength of schedule less the SEC Championship Game b/c the Big 10 doesn't have a championship game Michigan's opponets record 84-61 (+25 differential) and Florida's opponent's record 81-63 (+18 differential). The odd thing is even if you did add another opponent (Arkansas) on to Florida's schedule there opponents record would be 91-66 (+25 differential) tying with Michigan. Also I would like to say Michigan scheduled a team from the SEC to play even though it was only vanderbilt. How come Florida couldn't schedule a Northwestern, Indiana, Illinois, Minnesota, or Iowa all so-called mediocre teams instead of Western Carolina?
Good question.
Actually, Florida's schedule wasn't quite as tough a couple of others, such as LSU, because LSU had to play at Florida. They had an otherwise comparable conference schedule, I believe, but had seemingly all the tough ones on the road. However, for the purposes of this argument, by the numbers, Florida's was tougher than UM's, and even USC's, despite USC's commendable non-conference scheduling. If Florida can play mistake-free, they can hang with and beat OSU. Trouble is, I haven't seen them play a full 60 minutes of mistake free ball. Too many penalties, a bad QB decision or two, and a few plays a game where the corners take a nap. They've got several weeks to figure out how not to do that stuff. Hopefully they can.
Here's the one and only reason OSU should NOT play UM. If they played and UM won, OSU would piss and moan that they should get a "rematch" also for all the marbles since UM got their rematch since both teams would then be 12-1, right? Right! UM had their chance, they lost, end of story. The Big 10 is not the center of the football universe, the SEC offered up the only other viable candidate in Florida, live with it, enjoy it and get over it.
Not that I'm defending Florida playing Division I-AA Western Carolina, but I understand why. If you ever go to Boone or the area around Cullowhee, you'll see half of the population of Florida there. I don't see how a team that considers itself a contender for the national championship can schedule a game against a I-AA school. Shouldn't that automatically take you out of the top 10? No? Well, it should. *crosses arms and old-man scowls*
Why should Ohio State have to beat Michigan twice in order to be considered champion? And why should Michigan, which did not win its conference, have any right to play for BCS championship? In 2003, a lot of people went crazy because Oklahoma got to play in championship game when it did not even win its own conference. I thought BCS was going to fix it then and require that any team playing for the championship should at least win its own conference title.
Losing to FUCLA hurts, but a win against notre dame, makes the season good, BTW that call for a cheer, Hail Mary full of grace who the h-eck's in second place!
Can someone explain to me how a playoff would work in college football? Everything I see has the #1 playing in the playoff. My question is why should they if they have a perfect season (12-0)? Am I missing something?
If Michigan beats up on USC they'll be 12-1. If Florida beats OSU they'll be 13-1 and OSU will be 12-1. All will have had one loss, but Michigan loss will be to then #1 OSU and Florida's loss was to #11 Auburn. All three end up with a legitimate claim to the national title, based on who they lost to. Then you would have to add Wisconsin who only lost to #2 Michigan and Boise St. who only lost to nobody(assuming both teams win bowls). But nobody gets a share, it's a title game. Like Bperk said, the BCS is to determine who is #1. Michigan couldn't beat OSU maybe Florida can and if they win, they alone are the champions. Let me join the masses in calling for a playoff. It seems like 90% of fans, media, and coaches desperately want a playoff and yet we can't get it. A +1 system seems to make so much sense and doesn't seem like a problem to implement.
Lil'Red, you've asked the second most complicated question known to mankind and that is why isn't there a plan for a playoff in Div 1 college football and how would it work if there were. The number one question, why isn't there a plan for peace in the Middle East and how would it work it there were?
The Big 10 is not the center of the football universe Sacrilegious! Heresy! The Big Ten is not only the center of the football universe, it is the center of THE universe! Everyone else are also-rans.
I. Hate. The. BCS. Look what it's done to us. We're like a bunch of fourth graders saying "My dad can beat up your dad." Paging Barbaro. Barbaro, please report to the white courtesy phone.
Yeah, but maybe my dad can beat up their dad! lol
Barbaro can't come to the phone right now. He is reading his fan mail. He will call you back when he's done. Grow, hoofie, grow. Indeed.
Cody everyone knows the SEC is the universe of college football. Show me another conference with 5 different teams with national championships in the last 25 years. There's only one, the SEC. Now go do your homework and figure them out.
That last stat would be a lot more impressive if Miami by itself didn't have five titles in the last 23 years, Crimsonblood. But keep trying. (Plus GT, Clemson, and two from FSU.) Seriously, four titles by four schools since 1992 is much more impressive. There is depth in SEC country, even if SEC fans are insufferably smug about it. (By the way, that is 5 in 26 years, but I realize realize subtraction isn't very popular in SEC country! :)
By way of comparison, during the past 25 years, the Big Televen has two titles by PSU, one by UM, and one by OSU, and the Big 12 has two by OU, one by Texas, one by Colorado, and three by Nebraska. One thing we can all agree on, by the way: the Pac10 sucks. :)
GT, oh yeah those one hit wonders and Clemson another one hit wonder did win titles, but then the ACC did "manufacture" the ACC "football conference", that's a johnny come lately conference, 4 different titles, not too shabby, but still not as deep at the SEC, yeah correction on the math, I was thinking Georgia's title was 81, good catch, still is 5 in 26 years, to 4 for the New-Build conference. New Build is still all about Miami and FSU, and lately they ain't much to brag about.
This is too funny. We're all wrong. According to Paul Zeise of the Pittsburgh Post Gazette, Louisville should be number two. Duh, obviously. From the Detroit Free Press... so you know there's no bias... Harris poll voting oddities What was Jim Walden thinking? Walden, a former coach at Iowa State and Washington State, voted Florida No. 1 in the Harris Interactive poll. Then Ohio State. Then Michigan. Here are some who voted Michigan FOURTH in the poll: Tim Neverett (play-by-play announcer from Colorado); Gene Ponti (Louisiana sports radio host); Paul Zeise (Pittsburgh Post-Gazette) and Ray Melick (Birmingham (Ala.) News). Louisville was Zeise's second ranked team. Former sports writer Larry Keech voted Boise State No. 2, Michigan No. 3 and Florida No. 5. Hmm, sounds like a protest vote. ... Dear BCS people, Your system is really stupid. Sincerely, SummersEve
Dear BCS people, In case you didn't read SummersEve's post, your system is really stupid. Sincerely, Ying Yang Mafia I understand why Florida is playing in the National Championship game. I don't think they're a better team than Michigan, but the logic does make sense. My big problem with the BCS is the stupid rule that only two teams from one conference can make a BCS bowl game.
Any system that counts votes from people is going to have problems. Why? People make mistakes and they are not objective. When there are so many stats to compare (schedule strength, W vs L, common opponents etc...) it makes it even more likely that there will be a mistake made. The only problem with everyone crying about the BCS is that the system it replaced was actually worse. They should go back to the old ranking system and just put #1 vs. #2 and #3 vs. #4 etc... We can all talk about a play-off system, however we would have to do away with 2-4 non-conference games in order to leave enough room on the schedule for 2-4 playoff games. Without the non-conference games it will always be conference champs vs. conference champs. Strength of schedule will be determined by the strength of your conference, but you won't be able to compare them because no teams will play other teams that are out of their conference. It seems like maybe they need to break the teams up into 4-8 divisions regardless of their conferences and let the winners of each "division" join in the playoff.
Any system that counts votes from people is going to have problems. Why? People make mistakes and they are not objective. When there are so many stats to compare (schedule strength, W vs L, common opponents etc...) it makes it even more likely that there will be a mistake made. The only problem with everyone crying about the BCS is that the system it replaced was actually worse. They should go back to the old ranking system and just put #1 vs. #2 and #3 vs. #4 etc... We can all talk about a play-off system, however we would have to do away with 2-4 non-conference games in order to leave enough room on the schedule for 2-4 playoff games. Without the non-conference games it will always be conference champs vs. conference champs. Strength of schedule will be determined by the strength of your conference, but you won't be able to compare them because no teams will play other teams that are out of their conference. It seems like maybe they need to break the teams up into 4-8 divisions regardless of their conferences and let the winners of each "division" join in the playoff. Then we can argue over who really won their division etc... I guess the point of this is that there is no good way to pick a champion out of 110+ division 1 teams when there is no way for all of them to play eachother. Even in college b-ball there are disputes over who should have made the top 65. No matter what there will be disputes.
I actually love the BCS. I don't really see how college football could do anything better than what they are doing if they want to keep the bowl games around. Bowl games are just one of the things that make the college game the best brand of football around (marching bands and fight songs being some others). I have heard some talk about turning the current BCS bowls into part of the playoff system, but that just wouldn't work unless there were only 4 teams in the playoff, and then there would still be as much bitching and moaning about being left out if you were the #5 or 6 team. The reason it wouldn't work with more than 4 is that it would use too many "bowl" games on too few schools. An 8 team playoff would require 7 games, a number that could currently accomodate 14 teams. This means that either a) you use some lower tiered bowl games in the first round, or b) quality teams who should be playing in some of the better bowls (i.e. Cotton, CapitalOne) will be relegated to a worse bowl. Now, the best way to make it work, would be to have (in an 8 team playoff) the top 4 seeds host the first round game. Then the winners would square off in two of the current BCS games and the losers would play in the other two. Then the top 2 teams would play in the current National Championship game. This idea is still flawed in multiple ways. First, it would require that some teams (those with conference championships) could play 16 games, which is way too many. The alternatives would be to decrease the season to 10 or 11 games, but this doesn't work for a multitude of reasons (not the least of which is money). Second, it wreaks havoc on the players. While many are skeptical about the "student" in student-athlete, it is true that a large majority of athletes do take their studies very seriously. Requiring them to play 15 or 16 games seems a little ridiculous when NFL players only play 19 or 20. In every other college sport that has a major professional counterpart (so, baseball, hockey and basketball), college teams play roughly 1/3 the number of games. Why should college football players have to play the same number of games as 2/3 of the NFL? Third, it wreaks havoc on the fans. The additional home game would be easy enough, but imagine Ohio State fans having to travel to, say, Miami for the National Semifinal formerly known as the Orange Bowl one week, and then to Tempe (whoops, Glendale) for the National Championship. For many fans diehard enough to make the trip to A bowl game, making a second trip a week later for the National Championship is financially impossible. So, the BCS makes the best of what the current system offers. Yes, it might not be the absolute best for determining a national champion, but the bowl system is one of the things that makes college football so different and endearing to so many fans. A playoff to determine the national champion is not worth sacrificing the whole idea of the bowl system.
Florida Schedule not tougher than Michigans? That is BS Florida Schedule (rankings at time of game) Southern Miss W 34-7 UCF W 42-0 at No. 13 Tennessee W 21-20 Kentucky W 26-7 Alabama W 28-13 No. 9 LSU W 23-10 at No. 11 Auburn L 27-17 at Georgia W 21-14 at Vanderbilt W 25-19 South Carolina W 17-16 Western Carolina W 62-0 at Florida State W 21-14 No. 8 Arkansas W 38-28 Michigan Schedule (rankings at time of game) Vanderbilt W 27-7 Central Michigan W 41-17 at No. 2 Notre Dame W 47-21 Wisconsin W 27-13 at Minnesota W 28-14 Michigan State W 31-13 at Penn State W 17-10 Iowa W 20-6 Northwestern W 17-3 Ball State W 34-26 at Indiana W 34-3 at No. 1 Ohio State L 42-39
Has anyone ever seen edub and Mike Slive in the same room at the same time? Well said, Edub, but you assume they'd keep the 12 game schedule, but they wouldn't have to. 10 games would be fine, (would anyone miss Florida-West Carolina?) plus a conference title game (if neccessary) then the playoffs. Only two teams would actually play the maximum number of games. The games would be over winter break so there is little worry about missed school work. Fan travel is a very valid concern, keep it regional and it shouldn't be a problem. I can only speak for myself, but I wouldn't miss the papajohns.com bowl. Well stated case, you deserve a more thought out response, but this is a start. Thank you for bringing some sense back (or to) this thread.
The BCS sucks. Everyone agrees (except edub1321). The most likely fix is a four-team playoff (edit: with no other major changes, e.g., same number of other games, etc.). I'm guessing it's close to unanimous that Ohio State, Michigan, and Florida make it, but who's the fourth team in? Would everyone be happy with LSU and an all Big Ten -- SEC playoff? Should there be a one-team limit per conference (and no Michigan)? Personally, if it were OSU, UM, and UF, I would like to see Boise State or Louisville as the fourth team. If the Big Ten is so upset about Michigan not getting a chance to play for the National Championship, they should work at getting the Michigan-Ohio State game scheduled for the beginning of the season ... Naaahh. The build-up to the OSU-Michigan game was the best thing about this season, and the rivalry weeks are annually some of the best weekends in American sports.
If they are going to do a playoff system I say do it to were each conference is represented by their champ. That would be the easiest no bicker way about it and if there is an odd number their could be a wild card like team that could be a team like Michigan.
If they are going to do a playoff system I say do it to were each conference is represented by their champ. The issue I have with that is sometimes conference champs have no buisness being ranked higher than teams who finished second in their conference. I don't think there is anyone here who would argue that Wake Forrest is better than Michigan.
Interestingly enough the last bowl game is more than 18 weeks after the season started. That would be more than enough time to have a 13 week regular season with 1-2 bye weeks, Week 14 for Conference Championships, the Army / Navy game etc, Followed by oh, I don't know, a sixteen team four round playoff format with higher seed at home for the first two rounds, neutral site for the last two. Only the top eight teams in the country would play more games than they do now, mostly on winter break. And all of the mediocre "your ad here" bowls would still fit in the Monday through Friday of the four weeks of playoffs. Why is it again this can't be done?
Jeez, Michigan, isn't losing to OSU once a year enough? I'm trying to remember if you have beaten them this century. I've got an idea.How about before you cry about the national championship you try winning a Big 11 championship? And I strongly suggest you keep bitching right up to the Rose Bowl. Pay no attention to that USC team behind the curtain. It's usually the team whose fans bitch the most that gets whacked hard in the BCS. Them and Notre Dame, who are always overranked and always get a better bowl than they deserve. Happy New Year, domers. Enjoy the big payday and your ass-kicking from LSU, maybe the best team in America right now. Personally, I hope USC beats Michigan just because I'm tired of hearing this crap. And I hope OSU beats Fla. by a hundred so we can go two weeks without the SEC honks telling us how hard it is having to face Vandy and Ole Miss every year. Oh, and one more thing about the BCS bowls this year. As a life-long fan of the 2006 ACC Champions, may I be excused for a moment to scream at the top of my lungs GO DEACS!!!! Thank you. I feel better now.
could somebody please explain to me why the gators are ranked # 2? gators and michigan both have lost 1 game. michigan was to ohio state. gators was to............oregon state. enough said. all i can say is that the gators are going to have their asses handed to them. it might be more exciting to watch paint dry, or even watch an nba game.
could somebody please explain to me why the gators are ranked # 2? gators and michigan both have lost 1 game. michigan was to ohio state. gators was to............oregon state. Florida lost to Auburn. It was USC who lost to the Beavers earlier in the season.
gators and michigan both have lost 1 game. Florida beat three of the four ranked teams it faced, defeating No. 13 Tennessee , No. 9 LSU, No. 8 Arkansas and losing to No. 11 Auburn. Michigan beat one of the two ranked teams it faced, defeating No. 2 Notre Dame and losing to No. 1 Ohio State. If you judge the toughness of schedule by the number of ranked opponents played, Florida's road was tougher.
if florida had a tougher schedule beat more ranked teams, then wh
