It is almost a split between Lions fans between the Patriots and the Giants, probably because Michigan Wolverine fans still have a soft spot for Tom Brady. Brady's the reason I've always been fond of the Patriots. That and I hated the Rams so it was great to see the Patriots defeat them in the Super Bowl.
Well, no, I didn't conduct a formal poll of everyone west of the Mississippi. My stance is indeed predicated entirely on the impressions I get from the people who spend time in the sports bar at which I work, a rather small sample of the population as a whole, but, in my opinion, fairly representative group of sports fans from all over the west. Based on the same group, I think people were strongly pro-Packer out here, too. No concrete evidence, just the observations of one man who heard a roar every time the Packers did something right, and a groan when the Giants succeded. Again, can't show you evidence of this, just my own observation. I also think you are discounting what may be said around the water cooler. If ten people get together around it, two of whom have New England roots, and talk football, why do they not represent the population as a whole? So kudos to yerfatma for giving you some evidence while the rest of us just lash blindly out at the poor, persecuted Patriots. This is a forum for people to post opinions and observations, many of which cannot be qualified by hard data. My post wasn't meant to put you on the spot or start a pissing contest, it was only meant to good-naturedly suggest that you embrace the role of Ivan Drago to the Giants' Rocky and enjoy the victory when it comes. Boston teams have long since abandoned the role of lovable loser. They have talent, coaching, front offices, and money, and they are making the most of these things by bringing championships home. Enjoy the new era of New England fanhood and realize that, as top dog, much of the rest of the country will be cheering for your demise (metaphorically, of course. Don't want any literalists to think anyone really wants them dead.) It's the nature of sports fanhood. On edit, holden, thanks for the numerical backup..
Out here on the west coast, there's really two schools of thought. See, people here keep saying stuff like that, and I keep thinking they're pretty much all talking about what they're hearing around their office water cooler -- hardly what an entire coast or 95% of the country is thinking. So, you dispute tahoemoj's take on the West Coast perspective, saying he couldn't possibly know what everybody's thinking. Well, I'm guessing, he most certainly knows better than you do, because he lives out there, and you don't! What he's hearing around his office water cooler may not be the gospel, but at least it's happening on the freakin' West Coast! You may be the most oversensitive fan of a championship team I've ever seen in my life. One day, you're just going to have to accept the fact that no matter how hard you try, not everybody in the whole world is going to love your favorite teams. In fact, some people, myself included, hate your team, and are always going to hate your team. Stop rooting for winners, then you can gnash your teeth all you want to about the Unfairness Of It All. Until then, try just once being gracious in victory.
In fact, some people, myself included, hate your team, and are always going to hate your team. No matter who they are, I'm sure. If I said that chocolate chip cookies were tasty, I suspect you'd find a way to hate those too. Until then, try just once being gracious in victory. I'll work on it if they get to 19-0. Meanwhile, I suppose I should get back to doing all the things that an un-gracious winner does, like gloating, insulting the losing team and its fans, predicting even greater victories, etc. Oh...wait...I haven't been doing any of that, have I? Nope, just wondering out loud about some pretty big assertions. Sorry if that ruins the site for you, but I just don't see it as anything to get all that bent out of shape over.
yerfatma: (Quoting the Slate writer): 9/17/2007: "When Belichick finally got caught this week, you may have noticed that the rest of the league wasn't exactly rallying to his side. Jerome Bettis grabbed onto a retroactive alibi for having been whipped by New England over the past decade, and Tony Dungy offered a plaintive 'what-about-the-children' rumination that was just inches from actual sincerity."
I'm suprised no one has commented that the same Slate writer, back on 9/17, picked the Patriots to go undefeated. Kind of a ballsy pick in week 2!
Why the enraged Patriots will go undefeated. By Charles P. Pierce Posted Monday, Sept. 17, 2007, at 6:11 PM ET
LBB, seems you're getting kind of defensive about the thought that most of America wants to see the Pats lose, why? To be fair, LBB is Yankees fan too, so she's got to be used to it I am sure.
Of course lots of people hate the patriots. Just like lots of people hated the Cowboys of the '90's, the 49ers of the '80's, the yankees of...well always, the duke blue devils of the 90's, etc, etc, etc. Meanwhile, those teams kept on winning until their proverbial rome fell. A fall that was in no way the result of the disdane that they were subject to during their period of dominance. Who cares? the super bowl is not won by popular vote, or electoral college. If the giants win (and that is a big "if") much of the nation will celebrate, brady will hit the gym, and emperor belichecktine (i was going for a star wars reference, i think i missed) will go back to work to get back to this point next year, while the guys from espn will give them a 70% chance to do exactly that.
...no less than 14 different people, fans, sportswriters, analists, all say that the patriots lookED vunerable... There's a huge difference between analyst and analist.
Havent we been over this?
Havent we been over this? We, who? Us? Me, you? No. Over this? Over what? I don't know. What do you mean? Haven't who been over what?
Here you go, Hugh.
Huh. I'd never seen the Locker Room before now. Honestly, I was just making a cheap anal joke; the spelling wasn't even an issue. I assumed it was just a typo, one of those wonderful, fortuitous typos with funny hidden meaning. Funny, that is, if you are amused by the anus and its many charms. So I'll say, hey, sorry for my clumsiness, didn't mean to kick your cast or tread on a sore toe, but say my username out loud three times and you'll understand: I don't give a shit whether you can spell, but I can't resist butt cracks.
Something you might want to bring up with your Analrapist.
In a perfect world, my Analrapist would be me.
wow, a bunch of posts about bad spelling. Talk about Anal!
Exchanges like these remind me why I love SpoFi. Nick Hardwick says Richard Seymour is a dirty player.
Nick Hardwick says Richard Seymour is a dirty player. Wow, talk about sour grapes on the part of hardwick
Yeah, the trouble with saying that sort of thing after a loss is that even if it's true, nobody will believe you.
Those of us who have played football on any level from high school on up, can probably tell you lots of stories of "dirty play." We all know that a pile-up on a fumble means the ball will change hands at least a few times before the official pulls enough people off to see who has it. I admit i'm no innocent in the matter. ive pulled people down on top of myself and held their jerseys to keep them from getting to my qb, or running-back. On defense i was dirtier. And in my conference i was still one of the cleaner players. Im not saying that the behavior is right, and if he's doing anything that could seriously injure someone like stomping feet, he certainly should be looked at more closely, but if this is just sour grapes, as it appears to be, it isnt surprising. These two teams have a history of animosity. I would say to nick hardwick: man up. This isnt high-school girls volleyball. If it was, and the players heard him complaining, they would probably tell you to man up too.
Wow, talk about sour grapes on the part of hardwick Maybe. I think it depends some on whether what Hardwick said was true (and if so, if that kind of carrying-on is typical).
4. New England has finally perfected its zone blocking scheme for the running offense. Putting 3 tight ends in the game tells the defense that you are about to run, but the defense still couldn't stop it. Not completely accurate. New England is a breeding ground for excellent pass catching tight ends. Ben Watson and Kyle Brady are great pass catchers, Watson tops that off with speed. My guess is that the third tight end is an excellent pass catcher with good speed. So, the New England Patriots do not have to run with a three or two tight end formation, the team can also pass from those formations. The use of tight ends as pass catchers likely comes from The Hoodie's experience with the Parcells Giants, those teams had excellent pass catching tight ends.
The Sporting News recently had a poll among NFL players on who is the dirtiest player in the league and Richard Seymour was very high on the list. If I am not mistaken Rodney Harrison was voted the dirtiest player in the league. Nick Hardwick also recieved a few votes.
My guess is that the third tight end is an excellent pass catcher with good speed. So, the New England Patriots do not have to run with a three or two tight end formation You'd lose that bet. The third active TE is someone they picked up in like week 12. Also, Kyle Brady is no longer known as a good receiver. He was signed to be an extra tackle and that's pretty much what he's done. "Everyone seems to think we're soft -- that we're Southern Cal boys and we're not going to play hard and were soft and we're quitters. We're just as dirty if not dirtier than anyone else in the league, so we like that. That's the way Kansas City was, the way Tennessee was. They think they're going to swell up on us and be bigger than us, tougher." - Nick Hardwick, 12/2007
Are you kidding? The Steelers, 49ers, Packers and Cowboys all have national followings. The Cowboys -- because of how their national appeal has been marketed -- also have a national anti-following. Comparing the Pats to the Jags is crazy. Jacksonville's the least marketable team in the league outside of its region, in terms of TV ratings and merchandise. posted by rcade at 1:00 PM CST on January 21 The Boston Red Sox overtook the Yankees as the most popular baseball team nationally around two years ago. The numbers are massive, with Red Sox fans often taking over stadiums of opposing teams when the Red Sox come to their city to play. Since the vast majority of non-New England Red Sox fans have direct links to New England, it makes sense that most of them are also Patriots fans. That bit of information would indicate that the Patriots have a large fan base outside of New England.
When the Tigers played the Red Sox fans this past year it was like watching the Tigers play Cleveland a few years ago, there were just as many if not more fans of the opposing team. Of course that also means that there is always somebody cheering.
In fact, some people, myself included, hate your team, and are always going to hate your team. No matter who they are, I'm sure. If I said that chocolate chip cookies were tasty, I suspect you'd find a way to hate those too. Until then, try just once being gracious in victory. I'll work on it if they get to 19-0. Meanwhile, I suppose I should get back to doing all the things that an un-gracious winner does, like gloating, insulting the losing team and its fans, predicting even greater victories, etc. Oh...wait...I haven't been doing any of that, have I? Nope, just wondering out loud about some pretty big assertions. Sorry if that ruins the site for you, but I just don't see it as anything to get all that bent out of shape over. posted by lil_brown_bat at 3:29 PM CST on January 21 Give up LBB. Reason and analysis is not going to win the day with haters. Play by their rules, play smash mouth with them. Envy is a powerful motivator, but it is also a lead weight, watch them sink deeper as they wish that before they croak, they experiemce the sports era that you are experiencing.
he certainly should be looked at more closely, but if this is just sour grapes, as it appears to be, it isnt surprising. These two teams have a history of animosity. I would say to nick hardwick: man up. This isnt high-school girls volleyball. If it was, and the players heard him complaining, they would probably tell you to man up too. posted by elijahin24 at 6:27 PM CST on January 21 Harwick could have informed a Ref early in the game if there were discretions going on. Plus, he is likely as huge as any Patriot defensive player, if one punched him or a teammate in the back. he should have taken issue with that immediately.
The Sporting News recently had a poll among NFL players on who is the dirtiest player in the league and Richard Seymour was very high on the list. If I am not mistaken Rodney Harrison was voted the dirtiest player in the league. Nick Hardwick also recieved a few votes. posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 7:10 PM CST on January 21 Football has been compared to war. I have never been in a war, but I would say that if you have your opponent thinking about what you are going to do to him or her before a battle starts, you have assumed a significant advantage.
"Kyle Brady is no longer known as a good receiver. He was signed to be an extra tackle and that's pretty much what he's done." Kyle Brady has been a great third down receiver for the Patriots. All Patriots tight ends are good blockers, so? On the third tight end, I will trust the Patriots to pick a player that fits their system more than you giving an opinion on him.
Earth to Cave_Man: Please, move on from the Stone Age!! Could you try to come up with something a little more imaginative than "hater?" Judging from the statement you just made, Envy is a powerful motivator, but it is also a lead weight, watch them sink deeper as they wish that before they croak, they experiemce the sports era that you are experiencing. you are just as big a "hater" as the rest of us mere mortals.
Kyle Brady has been a great third down receiver for the Patriots. All Patriots tight ends are good blockers, so? On the third tight end, I will trust the Patriots to pick a player that fits their system more than you giving an opinion on him. You must have a hell of a memory, seeing as how Brady has 9 catches in 16 games and 1 in the post-season. As for Stephen Spach, I don't think I'm giving just my opinion. It said they signed him to block and that looks like it's pretty much what he's done in the NFL. The Pats original 3rd TE this year, David Thomas, is a good receiver. It's weak to just dismiss what I say as mere opinion if it doesn't agree with yours. The Boston Red Sox overtook the Yankees as the most popular baseball team nationally around two years ago. The numbers are massive We've had this discussion previously on Spofi: the numbers only show the Sox as more popular than the Yankees because Yankee Stadium is so much bigger than Fenway. If you remove those two venues from the equation, the Yankees are still marginally ahead. Regardless, while the Red Sox still have some lingering Lovable Loser Love from the casual sports world, they're definitely on the list of To Be Hated for other team's fans nowadays.
Kyle Brady has been a great third down receiver for the Patriots. Kyle Brady has nine receptions for 70 yards on the season. Cave_Man, my discussion with LBB had less to do with the fact that I hate the Patriots, and more to do with the fact that she seems to refuse to accept the fact that, as happens with many dominant teams, people outside of the New England region don't like the Patriots. As for my hatred of the Patriots, they've been a division foe of the Dolphins as long as I can remember; it's not like I just woke up the other day and decided to be a "hater," as you seem so fond of saying. I've watched Miami engage in bitter division games with the Patriots, the Jets, the Bills, and the Colts for nearly 30 years, and I hate all of 'em. So, while your amateur psychotherapy is certainly appreciated, it is in no way correct. No matter who they are, I'm sure. If I said that chocolate chip cookies were tasty, I suspect you'd find a way to hate those too. You poor, martyred thing, you. The only two teams off the top of my head that I know you root for are the Yankees and the Patriots. Being a Red Sox and Dolphins fan, I have a vested interest in seeing those teams do badly. Take it personally if you must, that's your decision, not mine. And, for the record, I love chocolate chip cookies. I'm crazy for the things, and here's the weird part: I love them, regardless of whether you like them or not! I'm sure that's hard for you to believe, but it's true.
Since the vast majority of non-New England Red Sox fans have direct links to New England, it makes sense that most of them are also Patriots fans. That bit of information would indicate that the Patriots have a large fan base outside of New England. This is similar to something I saw when I went to a Bruins-Sharks game in San Jose. It was quite the cultural experience, getting to see how Bay area people do hockey. Anyway, there were a substantial number of Bruins jerseys in the stands, which I'm inclined to attribute to the number of people in the area who had New England roots (or went to college there). There were also a lot of Hockey East jerseys, which confused the bejesus out of the Sharks fans. Anyway, back to my point: when teams have a following (as opposed to a casual "it's the super bowl and I have to pick one or the other to root for" temporary fandom) outside their home areas, I suspect it's largely made up of transplants.
Anyway, there were a substantial number of Bruins jerseys in the stands, which I'm inclined to attribute to the number of people in the area who had New England roots (or went to college there). Wait, so your empirical evidence is ok, or is it any empirical evidence in support of your point?
Ease back there, tiger, I didn't say it was evidence of anything. However, New England roots seem like a more plausible explanation for those jerseys than a few hundred Bay area denizens coming to the independent conclusion that the Bruins were clearly the superior team (they got spanked rather embarrassingly in that game, which was to be expected, since they were mired in a years-long stinkin' up of the joint -- in fact, the high point of the contest was when the shark mascot punched out the bruin mascot).
CaveMan: Labeling people "haters" is stupid and dismissive. ... when teams have a following (as opposed to a casual "it's the super bowl and I have to pick one or the other to root for" temporary fandom) outside their home areas, I suspect it's largely made up of transplants. True enough, but I wonder if that's changing in the age of satellite TV subscriptions, Internet radio and the NFL Network, when you can follow any team obsessively no matter where you live. A kid who adopts the Patriots today could keep up with them forever.
in fact, the high point of the contest was when the shark mascot punched out the bruin mascot Whoa whoa whoa, NHL mascots travel cross-country for road games?
in fact, the high point of the contest was when the shark mascot punched out the bruin mascot... The Bruins have a mascot? Why was I not informed of this? l_b_b, don't try to convert the unwashed to become followers of the one, true religion - that of Boston Fandom. Anyone who puts a clam into the tomato soup and tries to sell it as "chowdah" can have no idea of what Boston Sports Passion Syndrome is all about. OK, SpoFites, I usually try not to do the above, but I can't resist. There was something in New England Baptist Hospital 67 years ago that infected me with the dreaded affliction. There is no cure; one can only hope that an occasional title will alleviate the pain. It appears that the medication is working much better than usual this year.
Almost forgot to add this. Cave_Man, it is true that there is still a passing threat when 3 tight ends are in the game, but the defense can load up in the box without too much fear of the deep ball. Patriots went to a 3-tight end package on roughly 1/6 of their offensive snaps. Mike Reiss's excellent analysis has the details. Most of the sets (8) were run with a single wide receiver, and 3 were run with fullback and no wideout.
Kyle Brady has nine receptions for 70 yards on the season. Critical yards that made a difference. 70 yards, by the way, is 7 first downs, pretty critical in pro football. But since your reference is probaly high school ball, I forgive you.
As for my hatred of the Patriots, they've been a division foe of the Dolphins as long as I can remember; it's not like I just woke up the other day and decided to be a "hater," as you seem so fond of saying. I've watched Miami engage in bitter division games with the Patriots, the Jets, the Bills, and the Colts for nearly 30 years, and I hate all of 'em. So, while your amateur psychotherapy is certainly appreciated, it is in no way correct. Case closed, let's move on. BTW, I never offer psychotherapy.
Wait, so your empirical evidence is ok, or is it any empirical evidence in support of your point? posted by yerfatma at 8:06 AM CST on January 22 You really do not get out much, do you? Try watching Red Sox or Patriots games that are played in opponents stadiums and listen to the crowd response. LBB is perfectly on target with the observation on the Bruins-Sharks game crowd makeup.
CaveMan: Labeling people "haters" is stupid and dismissive. The situation is what it is. I simply call a spade a spade.
True enough, but I wonder if that's changing in the age of satellite TV subscriptions, Internet radio and the NFL Network, when you can follow any team obsessively no matter where you live. A kid who adopts the Patriots today could keep up with them forever. posted by rcade at 8:19 AM CST on January 22 Really? T BS broadcasts Atlanta Braves games all over, but I do not watch them or follow the team. LBB is closer to being right, people follow teams because of some form of affiliation to those teams. I would expect that an Atlanta transplant living in Boston would avidly follow Atlanta Braves games. As for Patriots fans outside of New England, emperical evidence (i.e, emperical means an unproven postulate for those prone to jump) suggests that the Patriots, as the Red Sox, have a big fan base outside of New England, probaly one of the biggest that any pro team has.
CaveMan: Labeling people "haters" is stupid and dismissive. Actually, my tone was intended to be more in line with how General Sherman dealt with the confederate south. As I said, the situation is what it is, I only deal with what I see.
If that means you have a "scorched earth" policy towards people you disagree with here, you need to revisit the guidelines. Critical yards that made a difference. 70 yards, by the way, is 7 first downs, pretty critical in pro football. Kyle Brady's nine catches this season, in 14 games played: Game 3: one catch for 20 yards, thrown on first down Game 5: one catch for 7 yards, thrown on second down and 12 Game 6: one catch for 1 yard touchdown, thrown on first down Game 7: three catches for 10 yards, a 3-yard pass thrown on second down and 8, a 5-yard pass on first down and 7, and a 2-yard touchdown on second down and 2 Game 8: one catch for 19 yards, thrown on first down Game 13: one catch for 6 yards, thrown on first down Game 14: one catch for 7 yards, thrown on second down and six Playoffs, round 1: one catch for 12 yards, thrown on first down The guy you've described as a "great third down receiver" for the Pats hasn't caught a single third-down pass this entire season. Brady's a blocking tight end now.
