FanDuel - WFBC

June 27, 2007

Howard fastest in history to 100 homers: It soared over the roughly 35-foot-high batter's eye in center field, bouncing into the Wall of Fame area on Ashburn Alley, a distance estimated to be 505 feet by the Phillies. That was Ryan Howard's 100th career home run, coming in his 325th game, breaking Ralph Kiner's 59-year-old record (385th game).

posted by DudeDykstra to baseball at 11:55 PM - 76 comments

I'd be more impressed if he wasn't turning 28 this year. Guys like Griffey, ARod, Bonds, etc. started playing full seasons by 20. Still, pretty remarkable to beat the mark by 60 games.

posted by charlatan at 02:03 AM on June 28

I'd be more impressed if he wasn't turning 28 this year. I get where you're coming from, but you should read up about him. There is a reason he started so late. Either way, very impressive record, and 505 is nothing to sneeze @.

posted by Bishop at 02:53 AM on June 28

but you should read up about him. There is a reason he started so late. By the way, why did he start so late?

posted by chamo at 09:46 AM on June 28

I'd be more impressed if he wasn't turning 28 this year. Still, if he avoids major injury and shows some longevity, he could easily have six or seven hundred in his career. By the way, why did he start so late? According to Wikipedia, the Phillies didn't need him right away because of Jim Thome.

posted by cybermac at 11:06 AM on June 28

Still, if he avoids major injury and shows some longevity, he could easily have six or seven hundred in his career. Even if he were to hit 50HR a season, every season, he'll need to still be doing that when he's 38 years old. I'd be willing to wager $100 that he doesn't reach 500 HR. His body type and skill set suggest he'll be done by the time he's 35. Smarter people than me have suggested that the Phillies maximize his playing time and get ready to deal him when he crosses the 30-yr barrier for a nice package of players and prospects.

posted by grum@work at 11:34 AM on June 28

According to Wikipedia, the Phillies didn't need him right away because of Jim Thome. Thome didn't join the Phillies until 2003, by which time Howard was already 23. Bishop makes it sound like it was more than just a player being ahead of him as the reason he started so late. In my limited time I have to research, I haven't been able to find anything. Just wondering...

posted by chamo at 11:51 AM on June 28

Howard's feat is something to mention,but nowadays a hot slugger could hit 50 in 2 years.

posted by sickleguy at 12:02 PM on June 28

50 homers in two consecutive years, you mean, for a total of 100 in 2*162=324 games? Yep, that's what Howard has done.

posted by cl at 12:29 PM on June 28

He's a fantastic talent and a helluva power hitter. One of the game's best. I don't think his longevity will have any consideration on his impact. I can see a ten year HoF career for this guy - 500 homers or not. Straight masher.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:17 PM on June 28

Howard's feat is something to mention,but nowadays a hot slugger could hit 50 in 2 years. Except those are his first two years in the league. The whole point is: no one else had ever done this before. I can see a ten year HoF career for this guy - 500 homers or not. Straight masher. Ten years is awfully short for HoF induction.

posted by yerfatma at 02:33 PM on June 28

Ten years is awfully short for HoF induction. Maybe he's this generation's Ralph Kiner.

posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 03:15 PM on June 28

I don't know, those are monstrous numbers. Wow.

posted by yerfatma at 03:49 PM on June 28

How many players even hit 50 in one in the first two years?

posted by 2bnamedl8r at 04:21 PM on June 28

Like the man says 100 in two years is something to talk about but that all it is is talk...lets us see what he does in the next 5 years before having him replace Kiner. The kid can hit the hell out of the ball but his biggest weakness is the pitch up and in and low and away. His arms are too big and he isn't fast enough yet to get the one up and in and he likes to sit back on the ball and use his arms and wrists to hit the hell out of the old horsehide. If he hits 250 more in the next 5 years and hits .330 and drives in 500plus then we can put him in that class. Oh yes steriods did he or didn't he that is the question people will ask especially if he continues to put up these numbers. Remember him behind Thome, Chamo is right "just wondering" what????? What did he look like when he first came started professional baseball and how did he grow. Don't mean to be mean but someone is going to ask these questions and we all know it. I like the way he plays and hits he is young likes to play and is having a good time so let it has been said before "Only Time Will Tell".

posted by The Old Man at 05:02 PM on June 28

From what I understand his parents had him focus on his education vs. baseball during his college years (as they did all their children). I'm also under the impression he graduated high school at 18 vs. 17, and he got a 4 year degree. That puts him out of college at 22 as oppose to entering MLB at 20 like Griffey etc. The Thome trade and his defense also played a part in the limited time he saw in the bigs at 23-24-25 years of age.

posted by Bishop at 08:22 PM on June 28

Let's not get ahead of ourselves - he didn't yet hit 50 in two years - although looks like the chances are good and I'll always root for a record-breaking/making achievement.

posted by bobfoot at 09:33 PM on June 28

Don't mean to be mean but someone is going to ask these questions and we all know it. Yup. In fact, you just did. Makes me sad that today's players have to face this type of guilty-until-proven-innocent criticism. Didn't realize that The Old Man was also The Cynical Old Man. Must be tough to watch and enjoy baseball if you have this much cynicism about its players. Personally, I get more enjoyment out of watching the Utley/Howard combo than I've gotten out of any two born-and-bred Phillies in a long time. They love the game and play it with a lot of heart. That's something that can't be said of many players from any generation.

posted by DudeDykstra at 11:12 PM on June 28

Dude, I am not a cynical old man but I was just asking or really suggesting exactly what is happening in today's game. I really like watching Howard play and Utley is really living his dream 40 years late. He plays the game from the first inning until it's over. He plays with more heart than a great percentage of the players today. And it is sad that the guilty-until-proven-innocent attitude persists but that can be attributed to the players like Bonds, Sosa, McGuire that body styles have changed after a certain age unnaturally. I remember it wasn't that long ago that nobody even considered steriods or any of the new unnatural performance enchancing materials a problem. I would hope that Howard isn't on any type of drug enchancement but we will never know until drug testing is used on all players to stop their use. The fans today really aren't any different than the fans 40-50 years ago. They want their teams to win and go to the World Series. But as a fan for over 80 years I can tell you I wouldn't and don't approve of using any type of drugs to do so. Whether it is a star of one of my favorite teams or not. Steriod use is very dangerous to all using it. The lasting effects don't come into play until years later. Your systems are not layed out to overcome the effects of what the steriods do to you in the amounts that are being taken. Systems fail later on for whatever reason and you start to basicly fall apart. I am sure you remember the Raiders big Defensive tackle that died young because of his constant use of steriods and the linebacker for Denver Romanowski won't make it into his late 60 much less his 70's. When it comes to be called a cynic it doesn't really bother me because I know I am not. I can at my age look at all the sides of this particular question. Playing the game , like I have said for years, hasn't really changed much in the last 80 or so years. You still have to hit a pitched bat with a wooden bat. Only thing really changed is the players and types of players. Hitting a pitched ball is without a doubt the hardest thing to do in sports. Standing in the batters' box facing someone throwing a horsehide ball 95mph and attempting to hit it with a bat has no peers in any of the sports we participate in. Golf, football, basketball, scoccer, track & field, waterpolo, swimming the list goes on don't have the danger on a constant level. Getting hit by 300lber hurts and the risk is there for injury but being hit by baseball traveling at over 100mph off a bat or hit by a pitched 95mph ball far outweights the risk level of the other sports. Any pitch any batted ball. I got off the subject you were talking about. Todays' players even the ones that do drugs are just as much fun to watch play the game as it was 80 years ago. And no the players of most of the other generations loved the game far more than todays' players with a few exceptions. Remember the players of the teens-free agency didn't make the type of money that today's players make. Granted more buying power but even 8000 dollars a years doesn't compare with 1.5 million today. Babe got at his highest I think 80000 a year if that could be taken in today's market because of what he produced and what he did for baseball after the sox scandal maybe 50million a year would be what he was worth' Buying power then and now are different and really can't be compared with any kind of certainty but I remember what a dollar was worth in the 20's and trust me when I say 80thousand isn't the same buying power as 50million. When I got to go to the 27 World Series in New York with my grandfather and father it cost them about 15 dollars for the tickets, hotdogs, coke for me and beers for them. Now I want you to think what the prices are today. The inflation rate is off the scale here. When I really want to remember watching the game for just the fun of it I go to the nearest little league field and watch the kids play, except for some of the crazy parents they are having the same kind of fun I did in the 20's playing in all the fields around town. A Cynic no a realist yes. Dude, what you have to realize is I have been there done that and understand exactly what has been happening to the game we all love. Even at 88 I love to play baseball with my greatgrandkids and some of the older grandkids. I will tell you the biggest high for me is stepping into the batters' box and hitting the ball and it is almost as fun as playing in the field. You all know how much I loved Ruth but I remember watching a young man play in 1956 by the name of Mickey Mantle that loved to play so much and had such talent that he just played himself into an early grave. Mickey was just pure pleasure to watch play because you could see it in his eyes and by the way he played. Ruth in his early prime when he was only about 195lbs was unbelieveable to watch. He could hit anyone and anthing, run like a deer, and had an arm second to no one. He ran the bases, did anything to play and win. But knowing and watching him and just sitting here now remembering reminds me that yes, god yes, he was bigger than life, bigger than the president and above all really bigger than baseball in a sense because the fans no matter if you loved him or hated him because he was a yankee just looked at him as being the BABE. He could in their eyes do no wrong. The fans and sports writers of the day knew about his womanizing, drinking whatever but he still was the babe and everyone LOVED TO WATCH HIM PLAY..I know it really isn't something you can do compare him and todays players but what he had was a style that was so unique unless you watched him play it can't be explained. Ted Williams had that talent so did Mantle and Koufax but there was something about George Herman Ruth that hits you right in the face. You can look at all the statistics of all the players and they are just that statistics. Some are so unbelievable that they don't make anysense in todays' game, but look at some of the films they have of him and read the paper columns sportspages and other literature to get an view of what he represented to America in the 20's and 30's even now. As a old cynical man I just look at what it was like then and now but I don't feel bad because baseball is fun to watch, play and listen too.....

posted by The Old Man at 11:36 AM on June 29

DudeDykstra: It appears that you have uncorked it, sir.

posted by THX-1138 at 11:53 AM on June 29

Dude, what you have to realize is I have been there done that and understand exactly what has been happening to the game we all love. How old are you Dude? Early 20's? Your arrogance and disrespect is attrocious. As for someone who has been there and done that, you would think that you would appreciate Old Mans wisdom and insite on certain matters, esp. those baseball related. While I realize that drug use is basically "no big deal" by our generation, they werent with previous gen's and you should try to understand that instead if trying to sound like a bad ass behind a computer screen. Plus, Old Mans knowledge of baseball history should be soaked up by all us "sports fans", unfortunatley, we wont know or cant understand that love of baseball because of the emergence of the NFL, NBA, NHL, MLS, etc. I still remember my first pro-team I ever liked was the Detroit Tigers, collectors cards? MLB players. So baseball was my first sports love, but it has since been taken over by the NFL and NBA...which I will 4ever feel helped usher in the "juiced" period. Falling ratings, aging fan base,(but thats only my opinion)

posted by dezznutz at 12:24 PM on June 29

"Grey hair does not confer wisdom." - Henry David Thoreau I declare myself to be as old as the universe. Now you are obligated to value everything I say.

posted by yerfatma at 12:44 PM on June 29

his biggest weakness is the pitch up and in and low and away. As it is for just about every major league hitter, especially left handed hitters. His arms are too big That's just dumb. If he hits 250 more in the next 5 years and hits .330 In relation to Kiner? Kiner's highest average was .313 and he was a career .279 hitter. Oh yes steriods did he or didn't he that is the question people will ask especially if he continues to put up these numbers.... Don't mean to be mean but someone is going to ask these questions and we all know it. Actually, no, we're not going to turn every thread about a big home run hitter into a debate on steroids. It has nothing to do with this thread and is off topic. Didn't realize that The Old Man was also The Cynical Old Man. And yet you do the same thing that The Old Man does: They love the game and play it with a lot of heart. That's something that can't be said of many players from any generation. posted by DudeDykstra I'm extremely jealous that both you and The Old Man have the super natural ability to tell who is playing for the love of the game with all their heart and who is not, mostly by just looking into their eyes. It's an amazing talent you both have. When I got to go to the 27 World Series in New York with my grandfather and father it cost them about 15 dollars for the tickets, hotdogs, coke for me and beers for them. Now I want you to think what the prices are today. Please at least try to stay on topic. Turning every thread into a debate on player salaries, the cost of attending a game, and the unmatched talent of babe ruth isn't going to fly. Old Mans knowledge of baseball history should be soaked up by all us "sports fans", unfortunatley, we wont know or cant understand that love of baseball because of the emergence of the NFL, NBA, NHL, MLS, etc. posted by dezznutz Oh please. Leave out the 'us' and the 'we'. You can only speak for yourself.

posted by justgary at 12:47 PM on June 29

I'm sorry if I offended you dezznutz (although you attributed Old Man's quote to me, so you may have just been confused). I certainly am not of the belief that drug use is "no big deal". In fact, my post said absolutely nothing of the sort. Not sure how you came to that conclusion. You're right that I was disrespectful in labeling The Old Man a cynic. It is my love of baseball that creates aggressive reactions to people who quickly disparage today's players. Particularly Mr. Howard, who I have enjoyed watching and rooting for every night for the past couple years. As for trying to sound like a badass, please read your own post. You called me arrogant and disrespectful, yet you incorrectly attributed a quote to me and asserted that I believed something that I clearly do not. Please take more time in the future to understand what someone is saying before attacking them.

posted by DudeDykstra at 12:54 PM on June 29

Justgary, I've been a fan of Chase's for many years (followed him all the way through the organization). I base my respect for his "heart" on what EVERYONE in baseball (coaches, teammates, scouts, media, fans...) says about his work ethic and commitment to the game. For one example, he has turned himself into a truly great second baseman, when at one point early in his career it was thought he'd eventually have to play first because of his weak abilities in the field.

posted by DudeDykstra at 01:03 PM on June 29

Justgary, I've been a fan of Chase's for many years I don't doubt Chase. It's your condemnation that few others play with heart and your ability to tell that I disagree with.

posted by justgary at 01:05 PM on June 29

I base my respect for his "heart" on what EVERYONE in baseball (coaches, teammates, scouts, media, fans...) says about his work ethic and commitment to the game. Did all these people say this to you personally, or is there some website someplace where every single person in the world who's ever had anything to do with baseball congregates, and you're the only one who's allowed to soak in their wisdom? There are so many asinine statements in this thread, Ryan Howard is probably embarrassed that we even associated his name with this fucking mess.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 01:58 PM on June 29

TBH: Ryan Howard personally assured me on www.everysinglepersonintheworldwho'severhadanythingtodowithbaseball.com that he's OK with this thread.

posted by THX-1138 at 02:21 PM on June 29

Ryan Howard is probably embarrassed that we even associated his name with this fucking mess. Damn it, a fucking mess has been created without my help. I'm losing my touch.... Or am I gaining my touch. I'm confused.

posted by Bishop at 02:58 PM on June 29

I am 89 next Sept I can speak for not many today that got to see the Babe and others of his generation and other generations until this present generation. And as far as grey hair mine doesn't have a lot of grey in it. Maybe because I have lost some of it. I am not trying to embarrass anyone here and as my grandkids keep telling me after reading some of comments about my writing maybe I shouldn't write some of the opinions I do. Everyone keeps repeating themselves in some of the statements that nobody really knows how or why so of these new players compete. Bottom line in my opinion is what they can make to help themselves and their families. You have to remember baseball in the late 1800's and early 1900's wasn't really a high paying salary operation. It was a sport that not all watched or wanted to watch it depended upon what part of the country you lived in. Walter Johnson, came from Fullerton California but he was an exception to the rule of where the main body of players came from. Baseball was fun to watch and allowed the fans to in some way forget their problems. God, I hate to use the word entertainment in regards to baseball, but in this example it is very fitting. You keep telling me that money isn't the only reason that players play. Yes, again in some cases you maybe right, but in the early stages of baseball it was for the fun of the game and some extra spending money that they earned playing this game. Howard plays the game well but if you think money isn't involved in his decision to play MLB you had better wake up and smell the roses. When I was growing up nobody mentioned the money they made except what the Babe made. Cobb was as we all know a jerk and believe me when I tell you money to him was the bottom line. He was very smart in his investments but tried to make as much as he could. The days of players just loving to play ended long ago when the money started becoming huge in relationship to some of there talent. A player hitting .275 making 2.5 million a year is crazy. I don't care if it 2007 or 1967. I can only hope I haven't made any asinine statements or embarrassed myself or any of you people and if I have please forgive a OLD MAN..I maybe old by your standards but my mine is the same as it has been for all these many years. Granted it does take me time to write this because my hands don't work like they use to and my eyes get tired looking at the small screen. I will end this with a thank you for listening and high hopes that baseball continues to be fun to watch and play no matter what the age, race or gender...

posted by The Old Man at 04:29 PM on June 29

One more thing, Just Gary, I maybe old and slow and it takes me a while to get some of the points of the younger generations but let me tell you something, this we or us bullshit has come from living more in my 88 years than you will ever live in your small simple uncomplex existence. If I was 40 years younger I would to put it in a language that even you can understand go over to your house and kick your ass from one side of the room to the other. And yes I speak for myself at all times and most of the statements I make I can back up with the knowledge of living in two centuries and through one world war (II) Vietnam, Korea, and assorted other little military problems. So if you don't like what I have to say then I guess I won't say it. I try not to disrespect anyone but if I have then once again I am sorry.

posted by The Old Man at 04:41 PM on June 29

One more thing, Just Gary, I maybe old and......... this we or us bullshit has come from living more in my 88 years than you will ever live in your small simple uncomplex existence. If I was 40 years younger I would to put it in a language that even you can understand go over to your house and kick your ass from one side of the room to the other. You would think someone who has lived 88 years would have a level of maturity that would preclude idiotic statements like the one you made here.

posted by tommytrump at 05:37 PM on June 29

Does he know that Gary runs this site? And40 years ago, he'd still be 48. My money's on Gary.

posted by louisville_slugger at 05:47 PM on June 29

louisville_slugger, I don't think he does know that Gary is one of the operators of the site, but I don't think it matters who he threatened. Even if he had threatened someone like luther (remember luther?) it is gutless, uncalled for, and certainly does not follow the guidelines of Sportsfilter. This is one of the most ignorant things I've ever read on Spofi, and I've been a member for 17 months, so you know I've seen a few idiotic, ignorant comments.

posted by tommytrump at 05:55 PM on June 29

When The Old Man was a boy, if someone came over your house (presumably walking uphill barefoot both ways because they had already eaten their baked potato shoes) and kicked your ass from one side of the room to the other, you had the decency to thank them for kicking your ass and at least offered them a cold glass of milk for their troubles. Then perhaps you both settled down in front of the picture tube and watched a ball game, while lamenting on how bad EVERYTHING was going to suck in the future.

posted by jerseygirl at 06:08 PM on June 29

Why, little missy, ya' shouldn't oughta talk such sass at the men-folk like that. You and yer women's lib-ur-ation. If that don't beat all. Now don't interrupt me while I eat my baked tater shoe sandwich.

posted by THX-1138 at 06:19 PM on June 29

Back in my day...........We would have been glad to have someone come over to our house and kick our ass from one side of the room to the other, but we didn't have a house, let alone rooms. We could barely afford to have asses. We lived in a van, down by the river. Jersey, you had picture tubes? Wow!

posted by tommytrump at 06:21 PM on June 29

My money's on Gary. posted by louisville_slugger As much as I appreciate your support louisville slugger, think Niles from Frazier. I don't want to see you lose any money. The Old Man, my 'we/us' comment wasn't directed at you. I only asked you to stay on topic. I have no idea where this outburst of anger is coming from, nor do I understand much of what you're rambling about, but as much as I'd love to relive high school I think I'll have to pass. I don't think I need to point you to the guidelines as I'm sure you understand insults and threats aren't allowed in most civil communities and generally result in bannation. If you have any questions feel free to contact an admin.

posted by justgary at 06:27 PM on June 29

Come on Gary, at the bike rack at 3:15, if you don't show up, you're chicken! Niles had deceptive strength, he was weaker than you thought he was.

posted by tommytrump at 06:35 PM on June 29

This reminds me of another thread that mentioned the movie 3 o'clock high. Damn it, a threat of violence and I'm still not involved. I am missing an angle here. I don't even recall ever being threatened. A player hitting .275 making 2.5 million a year is crazy. I will end this with a thank you for listening and high hopes that baseball continues to be fun to watch and play no matter what the age, race, gender, or salary of the players...

posted by Bishop at 08:40 PM on June 29

One more thing, Just Gary, I maybe old and......... this we or us bullshit has come from living more in my 88 years than you will ever live in your small simple uncomplex existence. If I was 40 years younger I would to put it in a language that even you can understand go over to your house and kick your ass from one side of the room to the other. Love it.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 08:45 PM on June 29

your small simple uncomplex existence That's called driving home the point.

posted by justgary at 08:50 PM on June 29

Wait, so it's small, simple, and uncomplex? Goddamn it gary, that does it! I'm gonna go to the store, buy you an ass, bring it to your house, and then kick it all over the freakin' place! How do you make it to 89 if you're running around threatening total strangers? You better be careful, Old Man; this ain't like your salad days when fellows fought according to the Queensbury Rules. Nowadays, one of these punks (who certainly couldn't hold his own against the gangsters of your day, who were in it for the love of crime, not just the money) will come to your house and do more than just kick your ass. The Old Man, ITG Emeritus.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 09:49 PM on June 29

Shame on you all for egging on The Old Man. I had paragraphs to write regarding the various issues - but it comes around to The Old Man feeling the need to put up his literary dukes to defend himself against an initial cheap shot. You all might want to give some thought to listening to his decades of first-person memories - and gleaning from them what nuggets are available for you. Those of us who are 50-more-or-less, should listen to ourselves when we talk to teenagers, and consider how we talk to them about the brilliance of the players of our era. And really, the comparison is weak - The Old Man's era included several Golden Ages, and, if not the birth, than the adolescence and further growth of sports' competitive era. His counter-attack was worthy. I wish my parents were able to talk to me about those years in any form - whether I agreed with them or not.

posted by bobfoot at 12:53 AM on June 30

Gary, you've hinted at it long enough, is The Old Man a complete troll or not? I've been assuming he's not based on the utter mess of formatting, diction and grammar*, but his age and when he lived/ what he saw moves around to fit the players he wants to use to make a point in each thread. Would that the user detectives from Metatalk were around to dig in; I'm too lazy. * Having "developed" any number of trolls in earlier Internet incarnations, the character just seems to fully-formed and perfect.

posted by yerfatma at 09:06 AM on June 30

By far the funniest post comments I have ever read.

posted by the legend at 12:14 PM on June 30

Gary, you've hinted at it long enough, is The Old Man a complete troll or not? Well he does share the same name as ucla512.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 01:12 PM on June 30

Zounds! Then the games afoot, eh? Guards!

posted by THX-1138 at 03:49 PM on June 30

In truth, I have noticed a discrepency in Old Man's posts. At times they were, shall we say, dodgy, at other times eloquent. I just sort of figured that maybe his grand kids were taking dictation.

posted by THX-1138 at 03:53 PM on June 30

Well he does share the same name as ucla512. william porter, all lower case, no less. Plus their writing styles are remarkably similar. Both sign their comments from time to time... and then sometimes ucla posts as his father. And what Gary put together is pretty damning evidence. Ban them both, block the IP. We're being screwed with.

posted by jerseygirl at 06:14 PM on June 30

Tyring to catch up: did ucla get banned already?

posted by brainofdtrain at 08:03 PM on June 30

You all might want to give some thought to listening to his decades of first-person memories When The Old Man first came to sportsfilter I was impressed enough to put one of his comments on the sidebar. I have more books on baseball history and first person memories than I can count, and I grew up listening to my father and grandfather (to a lesser extent) discuss baseball's past. Spare me the speech. Since his first few comments The Old Man's spiel can be summed up as follows: -Baseball salaries have ruined baseball, players use to play for the joy of the game, today only for money. -The talent level isn't close to the past. -Ruth Ruth Ruth. No matter what the topic, like a broken record. Over and over and over... And there is no discussion on the topic. No debate. Past great, present bad. I would have stopped listening to my father if he had the same attitude. Not to mention The Old Man's stories often seem to veer from reality, sometimes drastically (ex. koufax always pitching to a sold out stadium when he actually pitched to stadiums less than half full). If you enjoy hearing how about the golden days and how present day baseball sucks I believe The Old Man has an email listed under his ucla account. I'm sure he wouldn't mind if you emailed him. As far as egging him on, nothing was said by anyone that warranted his response, and age doesn't exclude him from basic decency. Gary, you've hinted at it long enough, is The Old Man a complete troll or not? Well, I don't know if he's a troll, but something's not right. What I said before was gained just from a few minutes of looking at his comment history. The more you look, the more discrepancies you'll find. I can't be the only person to notice. From ucla's writing and name being the same as The Old Man, to ucla claiming to be his son after previously claiming his father died, to The Old Man's age being a random number, something is wrong: I maybe old by your standards, almost 93 The Old Man I am 89 next Sept The Old Man Older, you hit it on the nail 88 next September The Old Man ----------------- No Gary, I am his oldest son. -ucla512 MY FATHER HAD SEASON TICKETS TO THE LA ANGELS FROM 1960 UNTIL HE DIED IN 1980 -ucla512 And the stories, when you add them up (between ucla and The Old Man), are pretty remarkable: - The Old Man saw just about every Major League star of the past including Negro league stars Gibson and Paige - The Old Man was at the game where Ted Williams allegedly flipped off a writer after a home run - The Old Man's grandfather went to the black sox scandal hearings - The Old Man's grandfather knew most of the umpires - The Old Man's grandfather was close to Grover Cleveland Alexander, Rodgers Hornsby, the Traynors - The Old Man went fishing with Grover Cleveland Alexander and Hornsby - Miller Huggins came to The Old Man's house and they talked - The Old Man's Grandfather talked to Babe Ruth during WW2 - The Old Man's Grandfather use to play with Babe Ruth in his teens and twenties - The Old Man was at 1927 World Series - The Old Man saw over 100 games in person in 1927 - The Old Man/Ucla512 talked to Jackie Robinson for an hour (I'm not taking the time to link each one, but I can) And this isn't a complete list. So no, adding everything up, I don't believe him (there are other reasons that I won't go into here). Like I said in my other post, that's just my opinion. If someone else wants to take the stories at face value, that's their prerogative.

posted by justgary at 02:14 AM on July 01

The comment gary linked in the sidebar says he was 12 in 1933, which puts him in the range of 86 or so. This guy's aging faster than his shpiel. I'll tip my cap -- it was a well-played deception, the absurdity slow-building. Sort of a "fish in a barrel" scenario, since any good sports fan would want to believe those stories. I'd be careful with bannination, though. I think Anthony Hopkins was in some movie where he pretended to be his own parent, and that did not end well. Plus, some respect is due -- I mean, the guy did fight in the Revolutionary War.

posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 09:31 AM on July 01

Plus, some respect is due -- I mean, the guy did fight in the Revolutionary War. The French Revolution?

posted by tommytrump at 10:09 AM on July 01

He's probably old enough to be an American Revolution veteran. Maybe even a French & Indian War veteran.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 10:34 AM on July 01

Not Anthony Hopkins. Anthony Perkins. I seem to be having trouble keeping my "kins" straight. It's goin' around.

posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 11:14 AM on July 01

I heard he never fought in the Revolution: neither side wanted him because he was always grousing about how much harder it was to fight back in the War of the Roses.

posted by yerfatma at 11:35 AM on July 01

Well, you know those soldiers in the Revolutionary War were getting way too much money, and 40% of them couldn't have fought in the War of the Roses. Not only that, but they didn't love war the way the War of the Roses veterans did.

posted by tommytrump at 12:27 PM on July 01

Hmmmm...The Old Man and ucla512 might be one and the same. No wonder I've never seen them at a party together.

posted by Howard_T at 01:23 PM on July 01

- The Old Man's Grandfather use to play with Babe Ruth in his teens and twenties - The Old Man was at 1927 World Series I've pretty much ignored what "The Old Man" has written because I don't like to punish myself trying to decypher the stream-of-thought stuff, so I never looked for any discrepancies in what he'd written. However, those two points don't make sense together. If TOM saw Ruth play in the 1927 World Series (and has a memory of it), he would probably have to be AT LEAST 8 years old. If we assume that TOM's grandfather had a child at age 20, and that man had TOM at age 20, then TOM's grandfather would have to be around 48 years old in 1927. Babe Ruth was 32 years old in 1927. That means there is about 16 years age difference between TOM's grandfather and Babe Ruth. I find it almost impossible for Babe Ruth to play with TOM's grandfather in his "teens and twenties". If he meant TOM's grandfather's "teens and twenties", it would mean Ruth was under the age of 10, which doesn't make sense. If he meant in Ruth's "teens and twenties", it means that TOM's grandfather would have been in his late 30s or early 40s, and that seems unlikely since it would mean that TOM's grandfather would have to be a major leaguer in his late 30s and had a semi-successful career OR (for some bizarre reason) playing 16-year-old kids when he's in his early 30s. Since TOM never mentioned his grandfather's career except in reference to Ruth, I suspect that he never made it to the majors (otherwise, why not mention his name). Sniff sniff Something stinks.

posted by grum@work at 04:21 PM on July 01

The Old Man/ucla512 would have gotten away with, it wasn't for those snooping admins and that mangy Ying Yang Mafia.

posted by HATER 187 at 11:00 PM on July 01

ucla/theoldman/sportsnut? Maybe. I'll say one thing. Ucla512 has "personally witnessed" some pretty cool things as well. All you guys had better go look at the film of the oldtimers..If you think Shaq because of his size would dominate you got to be smoking something other than cigarettes. Upseld was one of the strongest guys in the league and Nate Thurman use to keep Wilt fairly even,. For the records Nate was over 6'10" and extremely mobile something that Shaq isn't and never will be. And as far as Wilt goes, he didn't have to back over guys, he would stop and turn and finger roll the ball into the hoop except over Nate and later Lanier and Kareem. Let me tell you gentlemen a story that I was lucky enough to witness. It was during the late 60's and Wilt was playing for the Warriors. He turned in the key and put up one of his sometimes hook shots, and little Tommy Hawkings of the Lakers all 6'5"a jump up at least 12+ inches over the rim and blocked it back in Wilt's face. The look on Wilt's face was one of disbelief and then he took the ball out of the air and in your face dunk over Hawkings, Mel Counts and Rudy LaRussa. But the real story was later that year Wilt was going against Tom McChery nd Wilt kind of lost it when Tom jumped on his back as he went up for a dunk. Wilt picked him up and threw him 5 or 6 rows into the courtside seats. Big Tom 6'7 or 8 about 285lbs came out of the seats carrying a folding chair with him and started at Wilt, who just stood there and smiled kind of saying to him OK come on then. Tom looked at Wilt then at the chair and looked around and then just put the chair down and came back on the court. Nothing said nothing done. You want respect not fear this is one instance that shows nothing but the respect that Big Tom had for Wilt's strength and real lowkey attitude for playing. Everyone keeps on saying all the players in the old days were small. Yeah, Bob Lanier, was real small 7' 330 size 22 shoes. Mel Counts was over 7 feet(slim) maybe 230-240 on a good day. Bob Pettit wasn't a small person either. Well over 230. Elgin was 6'5" 235-240 and even today is the only 6'5" forward to average over a 1000 rebounds and 38.7 points per game. A believe me there was nobody in the NBA that wanted any part of Elgin driving to the hoop. Even in todays standards Elgin Baylor stands out as oneof the strongest and most intimating player of any era. Sportnut, right on. Shaq could be so much more than he is. As he had gotten older he has lose so much of his abilities around the hoop. On the other hand, when Wilt came to the Lakers he started to play defense so that nobody drove the middle on him or the Lakers and when Jerry got hurt one year, he decided to score and if my memory serves me, he average well over 35 points for a period of time that was needed until Jerry came back. Shaq doesn't play like that, and to honest after watching with the Lakers for all those years, I don't understand why he doesn't. The three top centers in history all played great defensel. Bill, Kareem, and Wilt. All three were never credited with any many blocked shots because they didn't keep track of that stat until well into Kareem's career. He looked like he wasn't trying on the floor but believe me the reason nobody tried to take it to the middle is the fact that 99% of the time you would have the ball back in your face or Kareem would pick it out of the air and off to the other end. Walton was known for that in high school, college and the pros. Everybody is talking smack about this or that but when it comes to comparing you younger gentlemen had better look at the film highlites and history archives of the NBA from past to present. We all know there is a difference between then and now but you need to watch how the game was played by a quote to Sportnut "the days when true men played the game, not a bunch of egol grabbing sissys." Opinions are opinions and everyone has one. In the other sports a lot of things have changed, some for the good some for the bad, but in basketball the bottom line will and always will be put the ball in the hoop and stop the opponent from doing so as often as you. posted by ucla512 at 11:53 AM CDT on March 29

posted by Bishop at 01:33 AM on July 02

Gotta be, sportsnut has the same approach to pargraphs and formatting, as well as using first-person evidence of the game as it was for why modern times stink.

posted by yerfatma at 07:56 AM on July 02

Gotta be, sportsnut has the same approach to pargraphs and formatting, as well as using first-person evidence of the game as it was for why modern times stink. Plus, he seems to support a lot of what ucla512 has to say in more than one thread. That's not really evidence of anything on its own, but combined with other factors it does explain things.

posted by grum@work at 09:13 AM on July 02

In the old days, we'd have figured this out much quicker. You kids today suck.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 09:31 AM on July 02

I think I'm going to operate under the presumption that there are only four or five actual members of the site... it's just a matter of putting the usernames together. I'm pretty sure justgary, jerseygirl, yerfatma, Yukon, Venice, The_Black_Hand, and Howard T are all the same person. Grum, Weedy, DrJohn, wingnut, chico, Frisby and njsk8r (HAH!). Hawkguy, tommytrump and luther. Bishop and mjkredliner. skydivedad and skydivemom rcade and jennifer. It's all coming together now. I'm keeping a chart.

posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 09:52 AM on July 02

I resent being lumped with luther

posted by tommytrump at 10:18 AM on July 02

I have a sneaking feeling that BullpenPro has resurfaced under another username. I must investigate this more thoroughly.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 10:21 AM on July 02

Yeah, get on it, Encyclopedia Brown.

posted by jerseygirl at 10:24 AM on July 02

I'm pretty sure justgary, jerseygirl, yerfatma, Yukon, Venice, The_Black_Hand, and Howard T are all the same person. Crafty, I am honored to be included in the above group.

posted by Howard_T at 11:33 AM on July 02

I resent being lumped with luther i also resent being lumped with luther its comments like this one that ruin a cool site for all the members why cant people get along and keep from being jugementel i wish you all the best of luck im outta here lol. Why, Crafty, Why?!

posted by hawkguy at 12:29 PM on July 02

It'd be interesting to see if they log in right after one another.

posted by jerseygirl at 01:42 PM on July 02

Bishop and mjkredliner Of all the people I have been accused of being, this is the first time I have been accused of arguing with myself in threads. ucla512, It is total suicide trying to relate to any tradition / history because as I have said before, any type of backround knowledge expressed related to a sport on this thread is for some reason a very negitive thing to express. posted by sportsnut April 4, 2007 Here is enough evidence by itself. A. When did he "say this before"? He had only been a member for 5 days. And 2. How did he know what was Spofi post suicide within his first week?

posted by Bishop at 03:58 PM on July 02

bishop a and 2 now that is funny tommytrump

posted by tommytrump at 04:12 PM on July 02

I will admit to being The Ghost of Reggie White, yerfatma, Mayor Curley, a couple of Chinese ex-pats and jerseygirl on alternate weekends.

posted by yerfatma at 07:36 PM on July 02

Miss a few days and, damn, it all goes cattywumpus! Nice work on the rat sensing, YYM et al. Made for some hilarious catchup reading. And from now on, I'd like you to call me Loretta, because I want to have a baby.

posted by tahoemoj at 07:42 PM on July 03

However, those two points don't make sense together. posted by grum@work If anyone put all of The Old Man's nonsense together I'm sure it would be extremely easy to find plenty that doesn't add up. For instance, he said that he talked to Miller Huggins at his house in the 1930s about his previous experience managing the Yankees. An amazing story, even more remarkable since Huggins died in 1929. Even without examining the details of his lies the first thing that struck me as fishy was what yerfatma referred to: his age and when he lived/ what he saw moves around to fit the players he wants to use to make a point in each thread. Second was that The Old Man, for someone that supposedly had been watching baseball since the 20s, seemed to only be knowledgeable about a handful of players, all the greatest of the great (cobb, ruth, williams, mantle), the ones you would read about first in any book on baseball. For the most part he wouldn't bring up lesser players unless someone else brought one up in a post or comment. Then all of a sudden he saw him play and use to go fishing with him. Third, his description of those players (cobb, ruth, mantle) came off like a cliff notes version of baseball history for children (cobb's temper, ruth's cork screw swing). Just so generic and unremarkable. When I started realizing that The Old Man wasn't who he said he was, I thought maybe it was a case of someone taking the truth and stretching it. Maybe he did see the 27 yankees. Maybe he enjoyed the attention and then started giving a first person account to stories he had only heard. But given that he first wrote as UCLA512 as someone much younger and then became older as The Old Man, and that he couldn't even keep his own age straight, I now think he was just your basic troll. Looking back at his comments now, not only in regards to baseball but basketball as well, I'm amazed that so many came to his defense lately. Once The Old Man got beyond his warmly met comments about watching ruth, his words became flat out bitter, repetitive, and banal. Never have I read someone write so much and say so little of substance. Yet we're being instructed to listen and learn? I'm can only guess many were blinded by The Old Man's age, 88...90...93 whatever it was on a particular day, because there was nothing else of value there. ucla/theoldman/sportsnut? I don't know. I'd be careful bringing out the pitchfork. It would be strange that the same person behind UCLA512 and The Old Man wrote in identical styles for those two characters but wrote much better for sportsnut.

posted by justgary at 06:58 PM on July 07

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