FanDuel - WFBC

August 03, 2006

Red Sox 3B Lowell on Fidel Castro: "I hope he does die.": Lowell's a Cuban-American whose family has first hand knowledge of the suffering inflicted on many Cubans under the Castro regime.

posted by The_Black_Hand to baseball at 08:19 AM - 102 comments

That'll be the day.

posted by rocketman at 08:46 AM on August 03

I dunno if I agree or disagree with Lowell, but I admire his consistency and willingness to see beyond his locker. Also, The Searchers gives me a weird, creeped-out feeling. Uncle Ethan scares me.

posted by yerfatma at 08:54 AM on August 03

I had a similar discussion with a co-worker before leaving last night, and frankly, I think I'd prefer a world without Castro around. I don't know what or who will take his place, but hopefully it/they will be an improvement. But for somebody who started out with such good intentions, he really fucked things up.

posted by garfield at 09:11 AM on August 03

It's great to see a public figure say damn the PC and speak his mind. Way to go, Lowell.

posted by whitedog65 at 09:41 AM on August 03

Lowell has every right to say what he feels and means. And there are a whole lot of people around the world that are saying the exact same thing. A lot of them are in Miami.

posted by kidrayter2005 at 09:47 AM on August 03

If Castro dies does that mean Dade County becomes part of the United States again. Almost fifty years without a counter revolution talk is tough but stop crying about the Bay of Pigs and show some heuvos rich men the old one is weak it is time to leave your condo's on South Beach, and fight. Talk is Cheap wishing death on anyone is wrong patroits stay and fight for change cowards swim.

posted by thatch at 09:51 AM on August 03

patroits stay and fight for change cowards swim. Jean Schmidt, is that YOU?!?!

posted by Venicemenace at 10:16 AM on August 03

The Cubans in Florida can give all the chin music they want but if they feel that strongly about it why don't they go and unseat Castro? There are sure enough of them in Florida. Let the rich ones finance the operation and maybe Lowell can donate some of his millions to the cause. When Cuba is free again they can move back to their homeland. Only then will south Florida be given back the the US.

posted by joromu at 10:41 AM on August 03

I didn't know South Florida was it's own nation.

posted by jerseygirl at 10:46 AM on August 03

54° 40' or Fight!

posted by rocketman at 11:04 AM on August 03

Cuba, ten years after Castro's death. One giant casino, with a strip mall on each side and a servant's entrance in the back so rich Americans don't have to actually look at the Cubans who'll be cooking their meals and making their beds, except for the ones serving them drinks of course. In the countryside, hovels that bear a striking resemblance to Haitian ones. May God save Cuba from the George W. Bush's of the world, but I don't hold out much hope of that. At least it'll be easier for teams to pick up some extra 2nd basemen and SS's.

posted by commander cody at 11:05 AM on August 03

show some heuvos.... Huevos in spanish means eggs.... but im sure you knew that all along... As for Lowell, its good to see the use of freedom of speech, Castro really messed everything up.

posted by redsoxrgay at 11:07 AM on August 03

"Cuba, ten years after Castro's death. One giant casino, with a strip mall on each side and a servant's entrance in the back so rich Americans don't have to actually look at the Cubans who'll be cooking their meals and making their beds, except for the ones serving them drinks of course. In the countryside, hovels that bear a striking resemblance to Haitian ones." Well, they threw out the Americans and their Mobsters after being tired of their Island being turned into a giant brothel/casino. Say what you want about Castro, but he's head and shoulders over the ex-Battista jack-asses that exploited the people of Cuba for their own gain. Considering those are the people in Florida cheering his imminent death.... There's scumbags on both sides, so I'd just as soon not choose a side, because I don't like being in alliance with scum. However, for those who choose to cheer anyone's illness or death, it is churlish, unchristian, and immoral. I can just imagine if a baseball player had made the same comments about Sharon when he was ill if this would be so acceptible. There is a major difference between exercising your freedom of speech and exercising your poor taste and bad judgement. I just hope when Lowell is on his death bed, there's someone out there wanting to tell the world how happy he is that Lowell will soon be dead.

posted by LostInDaJungle at 11:33 AM on August 03

Say what you want about Castro, but he's head and shoulders over the ex-Battista jack-asses that exploited the people of Cuba for their own gain. Considering those are the people in Florida cheering his imminent death.... Amen!

posted by commander cody at 11:51 AM on August 03

There is a major difference between exercising your freedom of speech and exercising your poor taste and bad judgement. I just hope when Lowell is on his death bed, there's someone out there wanting to tell the world how happy he is that Lowell will soon be dead. You make a good point, very strong words at an akward time. I dont know if I really agree or disagree with him.

posted by redsoxrgay at 11:57 AM on August 03

May God save Cuba from the George W. Bush's of the world, What are you talking about?

posted by tselson at 12:18 PM on August 03

I'm having a hard time seeing how this story could possibly evolve into a sports discussion.

posted by BullpenPro at 12:24 PM on August 03

Talk to someone who lived in Cuba then slam Lowell.Like it makes any difference what we think or how that country should be ran.Next blowup boat to leave Cuba departs in 3 minutes.All aboard........

posted by irishmic2004@sbcglobal.net at 12:34 PM on August 03

Where's owlhouse for this discussion? i doubt he would wander into a pseudo-baseball thread, but according to some douche troll on this site he has had "relations" with Mr. Castro. Maybe he could shed some light on his current state of health.

posted by HATER 187 at 12:40 PM on August 03

I'm having a hard time seeing how this story could possibly evolve into a sports discussion. The Red Sox are the worst team in the world and I have no idea why anyone would care about them and Lowell is the worst 3B ever and no one cares about what he thinks anyway because he is just a big jerk and who cares about all of this TIGERS RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 01:12 PM on August 03

I stand corrected.

posted by BullpenPro at 01:21 PM on August 03

How do you end up with a name like Mike Lowell if you are Cuban? Why does Bernie Williams have a pronounced accent and Juan Gonzalez does not?

posted by bperk at 01:26 PM on August 03

May God save Cuba from the George W. Bush's of the world, What are you talking about? What I'm talking about is that Cuba is much better off under Castro then they ever will be after the rich capitalists that support loony-tunes like Bush get done raping it. However I promised jerseygirl and l_b_b that I wouldn't argue politics in here or smack neocons around just for the fun of it, so this is not the time or place to discuss it. I also stand by my statement that'll at least it'll be easier to get more 2nd basemen and SS's

posted by commander cody at 01:26 PM on August 03

TIGERS RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hell yea, LSU will rule the SEC in baseball next year! What? Wrong tigers? You mean there are other tigers? Shit, oh well. And BPP I agree, Just because a professional MLB player makes a comment to the press doesnt make it "sports related". I must be fucking bored to even be commenting on this crap.

posted by Folkways at 01:31 PM on August 03

People like Roberto Goizueta, who came to the US after Castro took power, invested tons of money into fighting the Castro Regimen. Too bad he didn't live long enough to see the day of Castro's death; but let me tell you one thing, now with Hugo Chavez supporting the Cuban leadership, there will not be a change in Cuba even if Castro dies unless Cuba is literally invaded..... While at it, invade Venezuela as well!

posted by zippinglou at 01:34 PM on August 03

Mike Lowell is batting .235 for the last 30 days, and .125 for August (I know only 2 days). Did Castro have anything to do with that! Let's play some baseball.

posted by INOALOSER at 01:42 PM on August 03

bperk, take one part Cuban female and one part ethnically European male, mix well.

posted by ctal1999 at 01:51 PM on August 03

Fog of War has a great bit on Castro and McNamara having dinner in the 90s and discussing 1962. That was a groovy movie. I can't figure out how Mike Lowell managed to hit so well for so long to start the season. If you look at video of him four years ago, and video now, it looks like the bat weighs twice as much, he's lost so much bat-speed.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:53 PM on August 03

Still leading the league in doubles though! My fantasy baseball team thanks you, Lowell.

posted by Venicemenace at 01:58 PM on August 03

John McNamara had dinner with Castro? Recruiting trip?

posted by BullpenPro at 02:06 PM on August 03

"My father-in-law was a political prisoner for 15 years because, at 19, they asked him if he agreed with communism and he said, ‘No,’ so they sentenced him to death. That’s not the way to live. I know it’s terrible to say, but I think of all of that and I hope he (Castro) passes away." LIDJ, I wonder if you read this quotation before you unleashed your screed against Lowell. I'm not saying I'm excitedly rooting for Fidel to kick it (although I have relatives still suffering in Cuba), but there are some extenuating circumstances. On the subject of McNamara, any Red Sox fans out there remember a song parody of the old Irish tune "McNamara's Band" that was recorded in the 80's and listed off all the players at the time? The only lyric I remember is "My name is McNamara, I'm the leader of the Sox" and I've never been able to find the rest.

posted by Venicemenace at 02:11 PM on August 03

I didn't know South Florida was it's own nation. Have you been there?

posted by wfrazerjr at 02:13 PM on August 03

May God save Cuba from the George W. Bush's of the world, What are you talking about? What I'm talking about is that Cuba is much better off under Castro then they ever will be after the rich capitalists that support loony-tunes like Bush get done raping it. However I promised jerseygirl and l_b_b that I wouldn't argue politics in here or smack neocons around just for the fun of it, so this is not the time or place to discuss it. Okay, so you are just wanting to continue to make ridiculous political statements at the wrong time and in the wrong place but you don't want to argue them. Understood.

posted by tselson at 02:16 PM on August 03

La la la la la la I can't hear you!!! La la la la!!!

posted by commander cody at 02:18 PM on August 03

Just to make sure I cover all my McNamaras, anybody see Alec Baldwin's portrayal of R. McNamara in "Path to War"? Awesome! Definitely better than his Doolittle in "Pearl Harbor": "We're going to go to Tokyo...and we're gonna bomb it!" /off topic digression

posted by Venicemenace at 02:20 PM on August 03

Pearl Harbor Horrible movie.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 02:29 PM on August 03

LIDJ, I wonder if you read this quotation before you unleashed your screed against Lowell. There's also the old saw about if you can't say something nice... I can sit and say "Well, I know it's terrible of me, but I'm going to rob you." Lowell just made the standard disclaimer of I know I shouldn't be saying this, but since the newspapers are here.... Like I said, Castro is Scum, but so were the Batistas. I'm not in favor of either side, and I hate it that the Average Cuban is caught up in a game of political volleyball that has been a 50 year stalemate. It is still more of a shame that the Battistas were so awful that Cubans welcomed Castro and his thuggery as a relief from the exploitation they had known. They're two crooks arguing over who gets the plunder, and not much more. However, I don't think it shows much charachter that Lowell cannot even control his impulses to speak ill of those about to pass. If this was a comment made simply to a friend, that would be one thing, but he said this knowing it would be repeated. When we sling mud, we get dirty ourselves too. Lowell should have left this as a "No Comment" and been on his way.

posted by LostInDaJungle at 02:40 PM on August 03

Pearl Harbor Horrible movie. Couldn't agree more! Stolen action shots from Tora Tora Tora, with a a really bad and fictional "love story" shoehorned in around them. Besides the fighter pilots at Pearl Harbor didn't fly in the Doolittle raid!Bad bad bad.

posted by commander cody at 02:48 PM on August 03

Lowell should have left this as a "No Comment" and been on his way. I am roon'd. I have read "should of" instead of "should have" so frequently, that the latter now seems jarringly incorrect.

posted by BullpenPro at 03:24 PM on August 03

I can just imagine if a baseball player had made the same comments about Sharon when he was ill if this would be so acceptible. It's not really the same thing. If the Israeli people wanted to see Sharon go, he could be voted out. That's democracy. The only way Fidel's leaving office is in a box, so I can see why those who feel oppressed would like for him to be dead. I guess that's the downside of being a dictator for life.

posted by Adam at 03:32 PM on August 03

West Germany was stoked after reunification when they inherited a bunch of champions, a bit less so when they inherited various drug problems. If there is a change at the top in Cuba, will that mean any change in Cuba's participation in sports, or the ability of Cuban athletes to leave the country and pursue a sports career elsewhere? Right now it seems kind of like "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" (not that the old boss's departure seems all that imminent anyway).

posted by lil_brown_bat at 03:49 PM on August 03

huevos in Spanish means eggs If you ever get kicked in the eggs, you may regret saying that.

posted by mjkredliner at 03:50 PM on August 03

Stolen action shots from Tora Tora Tora Ah memories. Once a year, every year sitting on the couch with my dad. To be pedantic, I believe the title is Tora! Tora! Tora!

posted by yerfatma at 04:26 PM on August 03

Cuba does have elections, you just get one less choice for president than you do here. Just joking... Anyway, the choice of "Castro vs. Not Castro" really isn't all that much different than "US. Compliant Puppet #1, or US. Compliant Puppet #2." And would someone remind me, how are the "non-Castro" islands doing? Haiti?? No missing political prisoners there or rigged elections? Glad to hear that the Domainican is doing fine too. Last I checked, Lowell is an American. He doesn't need to wait for Castro to "Be in a Box" and would not have been able to enact change via elections no matter how free they had been. And for all that Lowell is not only entitled to those feelings, I think he is well vindicated. Hoever, there was no need to make those feelings public, and I ceratainly won't contribute to the coarsening of our society by applauding his moment of weakness. Hopefully, he's sitting somewhere right now thinking, "I shouldn't have said that." or at least, "I should have kept that to myself."

posted by LostInDaJungle at 04:28 PM on August 03

Where's owlhouse for this discussion? i doubt he would wander into a pseudo-baseball thread, but according to some douche troll on this site he has had "relations" with Mr. Castro. Maybe he could shed some light on his current state of health. I like the baseball threads. I just don't know enough to be able to contribute wisely. Fidel and I were sharing a glass of red the other night - he only drinks red, as you'd expect, and he has given up the cigars. Anyway, he mentioned to me that he wasn't worried about getting sick in Cuba. You see, the USA and Cuba have very similar health outcomes, such as life expectancy, infant mortality etc, yet he only spends about US$500 per capita on health, whereas in the USA, they end up spending around US$13,000. Fidel further mentioned that he never has to worry about treatment costs, HMO policies or his health insurance premiums.

posted by owlhouse at 05:50 PM on August 03

Yes, we all have the right to free speech, unfortunately actors and athletes have a forum that the rest of us do not. I personally could care less what actors and athletes have to say about anything, let alone politics.

posted by zap777 at 06:23 PM on August 03

Ditto that zap.....I never understand why we listen to actors or athletes ramble on about political issues. Don't care what Lowell, or Ted Danson, or Alec Baldwin, or any of them think...but some of them do love the pulpit we give them. As to "yet he only spends about US$500 per capita on health, whereas in the USA, they end up spending around US$13,000. Fidel further mentioned that he never has to worry about treatment costs, HMO policies or his health insurance premiums. That's a bunch of crap and you know it. First, their medical personnel's wages are not subject to market prices, so you get substandard treatment at a reduce cost. Ever hear of a foreign dignitary going to Cuba for medical treatment? Of course not, they go to the Mayo Clinic. You also fail to mention the quality of life. I'd much rather be dying in a US hopital where you're going to be given proper care, than in Cuba where you will be left in an unattended ward to die. Yes, the vast majority of our health care dollars go to taking care of terminal patients, but owlhouse, you can do us a favor and refuse that when it's your turn. I'm looking forward to better cigars, and better baseball!

posted by dviking at 06:42 PM on August 03

Two words---Elian Gonzalez.

posted by philly54 at 07:49 PM on August 03

Hey! L_B_B and Jerseygirl! Tselson and I had a political disagreement. Didn't let it bubble over here in spofi. Took it to email. Agreed to disagree and didn't lower the whole thread down to name calling and hurt feelings. Don't we at least get an "Atta boy" for that?

posted by commander cody at 10:21 PM on August 03

maybe a cookie?

posted by commander cody at 10:22 PM on August 03

I like the baseball threads. I just don't know enough to be able to contribute wisely. Owlhouse, the only difference between you and me is the restraint.

posted by BullpenPro at 10:38 PM on August 03

Lowell, like Carlos Delgado a few years ago has a right to voice and demonstrate his opinion. It is his First amendment right..... Wether we agree or not, he has every right to say what he wants. Having seen it from the other side(or at least many of his family and compatriots) Lowell has all the more appreciation of such rights. As does my father who grew up in a Nazi-occupied Austria which beacame a Soviet occupied Austria. No wonder he emigrated when he got the chance! What we think of what Lowell said is immaterial, we can choose to respect or not respect that on our own voltion and comment on it as we see fit. What we must respect is his RIGHT to say that. The minute we dont, we no longer live in a deomcracy.

posted by rudean77 at 11:12 PM on August 03

two things. First, rudean77, I agree that we all the right to free speech. However, we also have the ability to monitor how we use it. I think 'celebrities" tend to abuse it. Second, BullpenPro...can we get a picture of you in the restraint?

posted by dviking at 12:11 AM on August 04

If someone comes up and asks you "What do you think of the guy that killed your father and law" I think the words "No comment" would be the furthest thing from your mind.

posted by ryemonster at 12:39 AM on August 04

owlhouse, you can do us a favor and refuse that when it's your turn Unfortunately, I can't. You see, I live in a country with free universal health care, and federal laws that prevent euthanasia. So I'll be around for a while yet. Ever hear of a foreign dignitary going to Cuba for medical treatment Diego Maradona springs to mind. And irony still doesn't travel well, does it?

posted by owlhouse at 12:57 AM on August 04

Hey Outhouse "Diego Maradona springs to mind" Yea, he was on the top of my mind. A retired Argentia soccer player...now that's a foreign dignitary if I ever heard of one! Here's a clip from Maradona's on-line bio..."Since the 1990s, Maradona has been battling a cocaine addiction, which included spells in Swiss and Cuban detox clinics. Between 2002 and 2005, Maradona spent most of his time in Cuba. On April 18, 2004, doctors reported that Maradona had suffered a major heart attack following a cocaine overdose; he was admitted to intensive care in a Buenos Aires hospital. " Hmmm...seems he went to cuba for detox...but when he needed real medical attention he went home. As to your other comment, you really miss the point of lacking health care...free universal health care that you pay for via higher taxes is not free. And, no one said a word about euthanasia, that's assisting death. I'm talking about neglect which is common in many third world countries. As a long time donor to "doctors without borders" I have heard some real horror stories. As to irony traveling well...don't think you'd know irony if it hit you. Confusing Maradona with a foreign dignitary, or a lack of understanding of the implications of second rate health care is not irony, it's iignorance. But hey, they both start with an i, so I see your problem. enough with you.

posted by dviking at 01:18 AM on August 04

As to your other comment, you really miss the point of lacking health care...free universal health care that you pay for via higher taxes is not free. But the "free" part isn't the point. The operative word is universal. I would gladly pay higher taxes for "free" universal health care to all Americans. To me it should be a basic human right in the Bill of Rights. I also strongly believe in free assisted suicide. The right to die with dignity is much more important to me then the so called "right to life" everyone is fighting about. Oh and sorry to stick my nose into the conversation owlhouse and dviking.

posted by commander cody at 01:32 AM on August 04

ryemonster: If someone comes up and asks you "What do you think of the guy that killed your father and law" I think the words "No comment" would be the furthest thing from your mind. Amen.

posted by L.N. Smithee at 02:35 AM on August 04

Hmmm...seems he went to cuba for detox...but when he needed real medical attention he went home. Now I don't know if this is the case but is it not more likely he was actually in Argentina when he had the heart attack and was taken to the nearest intensive care unit? I think it's standard practice to treat heart attack sufferers asap rather than booking them onto international flights. As to Maradona not being a dignitary you're right. He's more of a saint to many people in Argentina.

posted by squealy at 07:46 AM on August 04

Hey Outhouse That was witty. Gonna call him a poopy-head next?

posted by lil_brown_bat at 08:22 AM on August 04

Lowell's got an opinion and a forum to speak that opinion. I have no problem with that. I'm not a huge fan of Castro, but I wouldn't go so far as to wish openly for his death. a lack of understanding of the implications of second rate health care is not irony, it's iignorance As opposed to iiignorance?

posted by rocketman at 08:39 AM on August 04

I disagree with Lowell, I hope Castro dies a slow, painful, lingering death, that would be only fitting, given the pain he has caused. Death is too good for him. Castro is no saint, the world (and many Cubans) will be better off without him.

posted by mjkredliner at 08:46 AM on August 04

How very Christian of you.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 08:54 AM on August 04

That was witty. Gonna call him a poopy-head next? Has he earned the right to say it?

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 09:10 AM on August 04

I would wish the same on other ruthless despots. Practice what YOU preach, TBH.

posted by mjkredliner at 09:26 AM on August 04

That was witty. Gonna call him a poopy-head next? farts forum

posted by jerseygirl at 09:28 AM on August 04

rocketman...sorry, typed that at 1:00 AM, my bad. Squealy, you're right, I was just responding to owlhouse's statement that Maradona had gone to Cuba for medical treatment, when the facts show he only went there for detox. Not that the detox was successful as cocaine caused his heart attack. As to his being a dignitary, I'll concede that perhaps he is in Argentina. commander cody, I'd ask you to really talk to anyone from a country that has this so-called "free universal" health care. It absolutely is not free, someone has to pay for it, usually everyone (maybe that's the universal part). Beyond that, discrepancies still exist based on your social-economic standing. The poor go to the state run clinics where the lines are long, and care is given by doctors that were not good enough to land jobs at private hospitals/clinics. And, since the lines are long, your care is rushed. so, bad care by bad doctors. That's why wealthy people from these countries still come here for their care. There are a few exceptions, but those are usually countries that have relatively small populations, and fairly homogeneous societies (think Sweden). Lastly (and I do mean lastly on this issue), we do have universal health care in the US. Every welfare mother in this country knows she can take her kid to the county hospital's emergency room and have his runny nose looked. They can not refuse to treat people in their emergency wards. I never really wanted to get into a political statement, my apologies to all. Note: only read this link if you really care about having "Universal" health care. It is a great article about the failures of Canada's socialistic system. It backs up every point I made. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2001977834_cihak13.html

posted by dviking at 09:33 AM on August 04

duh. Nothing is free.

posted by mjkredliner at 09:41 AM on August 04

That was witty. Gonna call him a poopy-head next? farts forum Not my fault! /throwing up my hands in innocence.

posted by commander cody at 12:12 PM on August 04

Someone give him another cookie...please.

posted by mjkredliner at 01:27 PM on August 04

Just meet after school by the big oak tree and pummel each other, already.

posted by jerseygirl at 01:44 PM on August 04

What were we talking about?

posted by ryemonster at 02:11 PM on August 04

What were we talking about? I'm not sure? I think it had something to do with someone cutting ahead in line at the school cafeteria? Either that or it was who had the coolest car to take Mary Lou to the junior prom? I can't remember.

posted by commander cody at 02:33 PM on August 04

my bad.

posted by dviking at 05:00 PM on August 04

Dear dviking Sorry to miss out on the last part of this thread, I am several time zones away and already on the weekend. But it looked like you had fun without me. My original post was light hearted, and in response to a less than serious request from another member, who remembered that I had been insulted by a troll on a previous Castro-related thread. It's good to see that this tradition continues on SpoFi. It seems we have different views on how health care should be addressed. That is well and good, health is a controversial policy area. But the US 'model' continues to be one of the most expensive and least equitable, considering the returns on investment. In health, the most expensive doesn't always mean the best. BTW, I appreciate the fact that you donate generously to MSF. I have worked in Aceh, East Timor and Sri Lanka alongside MSF projects and I can verify that the staff are incredibly dedicated, while your money is used effectively and in a worthwhile cause.

posted by owlhouse at 01:27 AM on August 05

Practice what YOU preach, TBH. I don't publicly pronounce myself a Christian, quote bible verse, and then wish a "slow, lingering, painful death" on another human being. So, as long as I don't start tongue-kissing God in public, then wishing horrible things on my fellow man, I don't think that expression applies.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 07:06 AM on August 05

To say Castro deserves to go to hell is an insult to people in hell. He is a murderer, a communist, a tyrant, a terrorist, a sub-human piece of shit, an Oppressive Dictator and, did I mention, a ruthless despot? You may wish to call him your "fellow man", but to me, he is excrement, a vile, sordid, blight on humanity. Oh, and did I mention, a ruthless despot? Romans 3:23, and, my admission that I am a sinner, still apply.

posted by mjkredliner at 11:17 AM on August 05

And worry about your own shortcomings, pal. I notice you have cleaned up your language a little since I replied to your e-mail several weeks ago. Nice job, keep it up.

posted by mjkredliner at 11:27 AM on August 05

Ooooo - condescention with a little self-righteousness, much?

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 11:52 AM on August 05

I hate what this place has become.

posted by jerseygirl at 12:27 PM on August 05

I don't want to make this political... so it'll be short. Mike Lowell is a great ballplayer and nobody should like him or hate him because of what he thinks. Plus, he's a member of Red Sox Nation. Now let's sing 'Sweet Caroline'...

posted by Joe88 at 12:28 PM on August 05

Did anyone see what they're doing for Castro now?

posted by redsoxrgay at 01:08 PM on August 05

I hate what this place has become. As in this thread or all of SportsFilter?

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 01:53 PM on August 05

My shortcomings? I'm not the one that said: Practice what YOU preach, TBH. I do...all the time. You're the hypocrite who maintains a "family values" philosophy, then wishes suffering on other human beings. Then, when you're called on it, you rationalize by saying that you don't consider Castro human. I'm beginning to believe that you have some physical or mental affliction which prevents you from admitting that you're wrong, which you are, in this case and many others. Debating you is patently worthless and a waste of time. You'll troll around posts, dropping your little neocon nuggets, trying to draw people out to argue with, and I'm sure you'll find a few. Good luck with that, hope it brings you the happiness and self-esteem that you seem to need so desperately. As far as my language, well, pat yourself on the back until your fucking arm breaks. I'll say precisely what I want to, precisely how I want to. The only influence you have had, or will ever have, on me is to cause me to hope that the majority of Christians and/or Republicans can avoid your habit of double talk, innuendo, condescension (sp?), and general obtuseness. The future of this discussion will be a one sided future, as I prefer to do what I joined this site for in the first place...have fun writing and reading about sports. To other members of the same mind, I apologize for my complicity in this hijacking. I'll give you last word, mjk, since I know you'll be responding. You just can't help yourself.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 02:09 PM on August 05

have fun writing and reading about sports. ...and that's a wrap. Sounds like a good time to let it go mjkredliner.

posted by justgary at 04:23 PM on August 05

Sorry justgary, but I am tired of being accused of starting this bullshit, I believe I am entitled to rebuttal, and hence, I will respond to his disengenuous accusations, and would ask, that if you too, do not see if I make a point, and I would welcome your opinion. I respectfully say, that if one looks at the top of the page and reads the comments in chronological order, that you will see that others, including Lowell, wished death upon Castro, yet no smartassed remark was made by TBH. You will also see, here, and in many other threads, childish, asinine political slurs and references, made chiefly by Squealer of Animal Farm, I mean, commander cody, yet nothing smartassed was said about them, either. I made a statement, admittedly harsh, yet, as truthful as my feelings allowed, given the wording of the front pagepost, and Castro's history of Human Rights violations, though, it was hardly the first harsh opinion of a political figure on this thread. TBH uses it as an opportunity to throw my "proclamation" of being a Christian in my face, then, proclaims that he has publicly made no such proclamation, (although, it says quite plainly in his profile that he is Irish- Catholic),(and, given the time to research your comments, I am sure I could probably find "un-christian" remarks, and could absolutely find instances of blasephemy.) I can, and will, go to the trouble, if necessary, TBH, to prove that your remarks are just as hypocritical as any I have made. What, exactly, am I wrong about here, TBH? That my opinion that Castro suffering would in some small way equal justice for thousands, perhaps millions of people he has executed, persecuted, and oppressed? Sorry, but right or wrong, that is still my opinion. Or, perhaps, I am wrong in saying that he is a ruthless despot, or any of the other things I called him? Show me why he is not, don't just say "you are wrong", I am pretty open minded, and am able to ascertain what is truth and what is fiction just as well as you. You'll troll around posts, dropping your little neo-con nuggets trying to draw people out to argue. Go to my profile, and look at my comments, and point out when the last "neocon nugget" was "dropped", and, put it in this comments section, so that I may see what it is you are referring to. Go back here. At first, the thread was lighthearted, I was joking in my responses, but, starting with NoMich's insinuation that 99% of the people in North Carolina are ignorant rednecks, or whatever it was he meant, it got progressively worse, and, though, at no time, did I make any personal remarks, and was very fair in my comments, you apparently took issue to my words because you had no facts to refute anything I said. Much the same in the Faith Day post. If you claim something to be fact,(I know it was not you, TBH, I am merely trying to get this cleared up) then point me to what basically amounts to a summary of Dr LeVays research, and, Dr. LeVay himself is even saying that there is no evidence of any specific biological etiology for homosexuality, then, yes I will call you on that, too. Look at that thread, too,you will see that I was polite and curteous, until I had blatant lies and untruths hurled in my face. As I say, look at my comments on FPP's that are entirely sports related. Now, if you do not want to hear my side (further right than a Rush Limbaugh block-slice tee shot) as opposed to the prevailing leanings around here (further left than a Ted Kennedy pull-hook) of politics, religon, or fart forums, then, I suggest you don't post links to Cuba, Faith Day, and other such contentious topics, that are just inviting these kind of debates. And, if you wanna play rough, we can, but, I would prefer to bury the hatchet, and have fun writing and reading about sports. I would enjoy that very much.

posted by mjkredliner at 11:23 PM on August 05

Mj, I'll leave this, but delete anything else. This is way beyond the scope of sportsfilter.

posted by justgary at 12:32 AM on August 06

the_black_hand: I prefer to do what I joined this site for in the first place...have fun writing and reading about sports. To other members of the same mind, I apologize for my complicity in this hijacking. "Complicity" doesn't cover it. You posted a link to an article about a Cuban-American ballplayer saying he hoped Fidel Castro died. Did you seriously expect that politics wouldn't take over the thread? If the idea of debate about the history of Communist Cuba isn't your idea of "hav[ing] fun writing and reading about sports," you should have hit the back button and forgotten about it. But you didn't. Ye who smelt it dealt it. I don't publicly pronounce myself a Christian, quote bible verse, and then wish a "slow, lingering, painful death" on another human being. So, as long as I don't start tongue-kissing God in public, then wishing horrible things on my fellow man, I don't think that expression applies. That's the beauty of not publicly adhering to well-known standards of behavior; you can point your finger at other people and shout "HYPOCRITE!" knowing well and good that they can't do the same to you because you have no standards to violate. Every Christian is a hypocrite every so often. We're not perfect, and don't claim to be, and if we should ever think we are, there are plenty of people like you who are more than eager to remind us with a obscene stream of invective and profanity. mjkredliner: I would prefer to bury the hatchet, and have fun writing and reading about sports. I would enjoy that very much. For all the teeth-gnashing that goes on around here about politics and religion taking over the threads, people sure don't do their best to avoid it. We probably don't agree on everything, but I think we're alike in that when someone starts whacking hot-button topics with a sledgehammer, we don't think they have the right to say "STOP!" when we react. cc: justgary

posted by L.N. Smithee at 01:22 AM on August 06

I hate what this place has become. As in this thread or all of SportsFilter? Comment icon posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 1:53 PM CDT on August 5 As far as the last 10 days, all of Sportsfilter.

posted by jerseygirl at 07:14 AM on August 06

Mj, I'll leave this, but delete anything else. This is way beyond the scope of sportsfilter. Well, that takes care of one source. Insanity is doing the same thing again and expecting a different result. Apologies for the snark, gary, this isn't meant in any way to detract from your well-intentioned efforts, but...it is insane, you know.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 08:26 AM on August 06

Arguing politics on Sportsfilter is like going out and pitching a no-hitter in your local Little League. Maybe you can do it, but no one's impressed and they'd prefer you didn't. If you want to discuss these topics, there are plenty of places. Metafilter would certainly be a good one. It's strange to me anyone would want to discuss politics here rather than on a site where you could get a decent back-and-forth.

posted by yerfatma at 12:04 PM on August 06

My point exactly.

posted by mjkredliner at 12:22 PM on August 06

And you're trying to prove it by counter-example?

posted by yerfatma at 06:15 AM on August 07

where? Read the FPP, it is definitely a political subject. Hence, it is fair game for political discussion.

posted by mjkredliner at 09:08 AM on August 07

Nor, did I initiate the political overtones in the thread.

posted by mjkredliner at 09:12 AM on August 07

The FPP concerns a partly political subject, mjk; however, it is still on SportsFilter. yerfatma's right; if your "point" corresponds with what he said, you are indeed proving it by counterexample. (oh, and by the way? that "edit comment" button? it's a handy cure for l'esprit de l'escalier, with which you seem much afflicted)

posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:13 AM on August 07

lbb, neither you, nor your yerfatma, can for some reason, see that A. I did not initiate the topic, nor the comments that were made prior to mine, or that, B. You are not applying the same criticism to the people that did. You seem to be afflicted with a case of wanting to read only what corresponds to your line of thinking. If my opinions upset you so, then don't bring up political topics, then bash one side of the story and not expect a different view. Unless, you happen to live in Cuba......

posted by mjkredliner at 10:27 AM on August 07

A. I did not initiate the topic, nor the comments that were made prior to mine, or that, B. You are not applying the same criticism to the people that did. A. Maybe your mom cared for that line of reasoning, but mine never bought it. B. Where am I calling anyone out? I said what I said without naming anyone and without excluding anyone. You then jumped into say "My point exactly", which is at best a complete non sequitor and at worst simply being obtuse.

posted by yerfatma at 11:57 AM on August 07

I would be glad to discuss this in a civil debate LostInDaJungle, my e-mail address is mjkredliner@sbcglobal.net.

posted by mjkredliner at 12:03 PM on August 07

Part B of your argument is absolutely correct, yerfatma. I apologize.

posted by mjkredliner at 12:04 PM on August 07

mjk, You either believe it is immoral to wish someone dead or not... Not much debate for me there. I'd go to PoFi if I wanted politics. Like I said, if he wants to say it privately, or feel it to his core that's fine. I just don't think telling the local newspaper about it is anything but uncooth and self-serving. It also reflects poorly on the org he works for.

posted by LostInDaJungle at 03:18 PM on August 07

I'm sorry, LostInDaJungle, but I posted that after seeing a post that was deleted either by you or admin, RE: The Kennedy Administration's act of terror on Cuba and a quote from Noam Chomsky. And, we will all die...

posted by mjkredliner at 04:14 PM on August 07

You're not logged in. Please log in or register.