8th Seeded Oilers knock out the President's Trophy winning Red Wings 4-2: . For just the 4th time since 1967, the #1 seed is eliminated in the first round. Is this the end of Legacy's time in Detroit and was this Yzerman's last game?
posted by mkn to hockey at 03:04 AM - 42 comments
Don't want to whine, the Wings didn't play to their capabilities but are there any non-biased fans that can comment on the officiating? They certainly seemed to give the Oilers every break possible. Game 4 was so bad overall, the league has probably already destroyed the footage. The Wings will regroup and be back again.
posted by lpaulson at 03:50 AM on May 02
(singing) Oh, we're the...Houston Oilers, Houston Oilers, Houston Oilers number on...oh, wait... (slinks off dejectedly)
posted by alumshubby at 05:29 AM on May 02
Wings played sloppy and lazy. Oilers played a great series. The officiating was terrible. As a Detroit fan I believe Yzerman will play next season if healthy, the team will go after a new goalie if one is available in the free agent market that will fit under the cap. The blame is not on Legacy but on the poor effort of the entire team and the defensive break downs that were rarely seen all season long. The Wings will be back agian next season. Congrats to the Oilers. Go Wings!
posted by jjl800 at 07:21 AM on May 02
Don't want to whine, but you'll do it anyway, eh? There were bad calls for both sides. Peca should have gotten at least two for his elbowing in center ice, but Shanahan was also given a free pass, when he skated straight into Roloson at full speed. As for the tying goal, it's the prototypical "you gotta score some ugly goals". Once it's been called a goal by the referee on the ice, it will stand unless the video shows conclusive evidence to the contrary. There was no such evidence, even though that high stick was damn close. Thankfully, Hemsky made up for the ugliness by setting up and scoring the beautiful winning goal. As for the questions up top: yes and probably. Yzerman played one hell of a game, though. He looks like he's still got it in him. Legace, from the third link: I feel like going home and hanging myself Ouch. You could see this feeling in his body language after the fourth goal. Very sad. Congrats to the Oilers! I've only seen two games, but that Horcoff kid looks for real. He's doing it all. And Kevin Lowe now looks like a genius for getting Roloson at the trade deadline.
posted by qbert72 at 07:34 AM on May 02
Yes, Congrats to the Oilers. As a 'Wings fan, this is just another in a string of poor post-season performances. Lapses where there were strength all season, untested post-season 'keeping, calls that seem to go the wrong way, it is a familiar tune.
posted by elovrich at 07:36 AM on May 02
Can't blame Manny for this loss, Detriot D just could not clear the puck. I don't think Stevie Y has anything left to prove. He doesn't have the wheels he used to and he is a big injury risk. Retire with dignity Stevie.
posted by HATER 187 at 07:41 AM on May 02
You can't blame Manny on any of last night's goals, but if you want to go far in the playoffs, your goaltender has to make a few game savers. Manny didn't. It's sad for him, but he lost his job.
posted by qbert72 at 07:53 AM on May 02
If you want to blame anyone, blame Mike Babcock and that atrocious Detriot defense in the third period. Andres Lija? He blew coverage huge twice that resulted in two goals. And Babcock had him on the ice with less than 1:30 left in the game. But that said, Detroit dominated that game. The outplayed the Oil the entire game for the most part. Edmonton was touched by God. That tying goal was legit though. Strange and mysterious, but legit. And allowing Hemsky to carry the puck in like that, stickhandle his way in the middle of the ice - three guys went to him - then just let him go to the front of the net for the other wicked deadline deal Samsonov to hit him with a great tape-to-tape pass. I couldn't believe Detroit allowed that to happen. Oh well. I think Legace gets run out of town.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 07:55 AM on May 02
Nice job Oilers. You played hard, and eventually won it. I had a feeling that they would give any opponent a hard time in the first round. As far as my Wings go . . . Officiating blah blah blah. The refs did a good job, sure mistakes were made, on both sides of the puck, nothing that lost a game or series though. The defensive lapses by Cross-to Bear, Lilac, and Froozen throughout the series were telling, (boy, why doesn't the Wings clone Lidstrom?). Not enough goals scored by the Wings offensive? My take is that 3 goals in a playoff game should win it, (esp when one is up 2-0 after 2). As far as not blaming Manny . . . sure, Franzen left him high & dry, but all series long there was a 5 Hole big enough to drive a truck through, and that goal should have been stopped. It's simple, look at what qbert has to say just a couple posts up, and I'll repeat it, if any team wants to go far in the playoffs, your goaltender has to make a few game savers, Manny didn't, and in professional sports, if you are relied on to be a significant part of the teams sucess and you don't come through . . . Late in the 2nd, the Wings shot, the puck hit Rolosson, it dropped and began to dribble, Rolosson was not sure where the puck was, but he dropped, and as he did, he sent his blocker back and down to make a solid wall on the goal line, stopping the puck, beautiful. I told the missus that if the Oilers won, (it was 2-0 Wings at that point), it was because of that save. The Captain, he can do anything, (hockeywise), he wants. He's deserved it. And, most importantly, he can still contribute, (though not at a 1980s-90s level). My Wings are, (disappointingly for me), out of the playoffs waaay to early. But there still is a lot of great hockey yet! Come on Philly, let's have a game 7! (though I want Buffalo to prevail) You to Canadians, (same with the Canes) Flames/Ducks, yeah!
posted by RedStrike at 08:38 AM on May 02
All these posts bring up great points. Wings need to get bigger and faster. Loss of Fischer turned out to be huge - he could have moved some of those bodies away from the goal. Shanahan was a no show, again. The only untouchable on this team is Hank Z. Everyone else is fair game for trades, releases or big salary cuts.
posted by drose92264 at 09:14 AM on May 02
Datsyuk too, drose?
posted by NoMich at 09:23 AM on May 02
There was no such evidence, even though that high stick was damn close. It wasn't a matter of being damned close -- it was played with a high stick and the play should have been stopped right then. As they kept showing the goal that followed (and the crew was correct in allowing it, as there wasn't conclusive evidence one way or the other), it was plainly visible that Horcoff's stick was above even his freaking shoulders, let alone the crossbar. How the ref missed that considering he was right there to signal a goal is beyond me. Having said that, Edmonton deserved the win here. Detroit's defense utterly collapsed in the third period and most of the Wings' big guns did nothing. I'm just cranky because this is going to cost me a shot at a trip top next year's finals in a playoff pool. I was winning, but I have three Detroit players. Wonder if I can count birdies as goals or assists?
posted by wfrazerjr at 09:43 AM on May 02
I have to say that the Hockey post's and subsequent comments here on spo-fi are usually more sportsmanlike, knowledgeable, & relevant than for any of the other topics here. You Redwing fans have shown a lot of class, honestly asessing what doomed your team, and looking ahead to the great hockey left to play. Your love for the game is evident.
posted by mjkredliner at 09:51 AM on May 02
I think they weren't reviewing the high stick, but I had the same impression as you, wfrazerjr, that it was higher than his shoulders. My only explanation as to why the refs didn't call it is that the puck bounced off a Red Wings defender before getting to Hemsky. See section d here. If that's the argument, I think this rule needs to be rewritten: a whistle should be blown unless the opposing team gains possession from the high-stick puck, which was not the case here.
posted by qbert72 at 09:59 AM on May 02
Uh hum ... just a little nudge to remind y'all of my forecast back on April 16th when there was a discussion about Stevie Y's future ... Problem is, the Wings have to go thru Edmonton before they get to the Cup ... and there's no guarantee they'll make it outta the first round. So, Stevie Y will HAVE TO come back for another season. I told you ;-) Way to go Oilers! [okay, I'll be honest ... I did pick Legace as my only 'tender in my Sporting News fantasy pool ... realistically, I thought they'd get one helluvva run for their money from the Oilers, but backs against the wall I thought the Wings would step up to the plate.] Side note: I was super-disappointed that Yzerman wasn't the one takin' that final face off with 5.5 on the clock ... if he does walk away from the game, his last view of the game was from the bench ... not the way I'd want to go out if I was him. Personal revelry for the Oiler win aside, a tip of my hat to the Red Wings and their fans for handling this loss with class, as mjkredliner notes above. Final note: the refs missed some on both sides to be sure ... they're only human ... and the game of hockey is f-a-s-t and physical. As fans, let's let them do their job and give them props for havin' the guts to be in there makin' calls--right or wrong. Nice link to the rule book qbert72. Point well made.
posted by Spitztengle at 10:18 AM on May 02
you CAN'T review a 'high stick'. i'm thinking stevie wonder might be untouchable as well as henrik and pavel. he's a class act and should hang it up. the refs called the game the same for both teams. they made mistakes but a LOT fewer than the wings did. the better team won.
posted by tommytrump at 10:21 AM on May 02
I was super-disappointed that Yzerman wasn't the one takin' that final face off with 5.5 on the clock... The CBC guys were WTFing that decision by Babcock as well. Laviolette did the same thing Sunday night. There were mere seconds to go in the game, the Canes were up by one, the Habs's net was empty, the faceoff was in the Canes' end, but no Brind'Amour in the faceoff circle. WTF indeed.
posted by NoMich at 10:27 AM on May 02
Regular season Datsyuk, no. Playoff Datsyuk, yes. One nice move to set up Z's goal in game 4 was great, but, not nearly enough. If these playoffs were a fluke instead of the norm, than I would include him in the untouchable class. Whatever changes are made, we won't know the results for a full year since the regular season has proved meaningless, again.
posted by drose92264 at 10:28 AM on May 02
It's that cursed martini glass, man. Tell your boys to stop winning it.
posted by NoMich at 10:31 AM on May 02
you CAN'T review a 'high stick' I ddin't say it was reviewable. I said they missed it, and I can't figure out how they missed it, unless for a short time neither of the refs was looking at the Detroit crease. Yes, Yzerman should have been in the circle, unless he was hurting so badly he couldn't take the draw. It didn't appear that way to me, though.
posted by wfrazerjr at 10:39 AM on May 02
It's sad for me that recent history shows that the current incarnations of my two favorite teams in any sports, the Red Wings and the St. Louis Cardinals, are teams that are built for regular season dominance but ultimately playoff failure. It's a different skill set necessary to succeed in the playoffs than the regular season for both baseball and hockey (dominating starting pitching for baseball playoff success; strong defense and goaltending for hockey playoff success -- things that can be papered over in the regular season or balanced out by other strengths). That said, I'm not going to complain a lot about the Wings considering their still recent (still recent at least in my mind) playoff successes. I'm ambivalent about Stevie Y. retiring; he doesn't necessarily look done to me (certainly he's not the same captain of old, but he could play a role on next year's Wings), but he really doesn't have anything left to prove or play for at this point. I'm hoping when he does retire he eventually takes a job with the Wings front office and becomes to the Wings what Joe Dumars has become with the Pistons (with the exception of the hockey equivalent of the Darko pick, of course) -- one of the class acts of a Detroit organization as his former team's GM.
posted by holden at 10:56 AM on May 02
I thought you could review for a high stick putting the puck in the net but the case here was that the potentially high stick just knocked the puck down... so I don't think video review has any ability to do anything other than review the goal itself. Which, when I saw it, looked like it skipped over Legace's glove and 1) had more zip on it than the kick/no kick thing the CBC announcers seemed to be talking about and 2) the puck seemed to be bumped into the net by a stick, by a Detroit defender. I dunno. I'd like to watch it again (moot, though it is, at this point).
posted by gspm at 11:43 AM on May 02
I didn't think it was that clearly a high stick. And if it was, the play should have been blown dead because the high stick resulted in a shot on goal (the deflected puck hit Legace first before bouncing to Hemsky). But during the review after seeing it a bunch of times, when puck met stick, both seemed below the crossbar (by a small margin to be sure, but it did seem to be legit). Frankly, I thought that goal was the best thing officiated all night - a clear judgement on ice of a goal, and a correct non-call of a high stick.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 11:45 AM on May 02
There were mere seconds to go in the game, the Canes were up by one, the Habs's net was empty, the faceoff was in the Canes' end, but no Brind'Amour in the faceoff circle. WTF indeed. Dude. The Canes had just iced the puck and you can't change players after an icing. Give Laviolette some credit. Though that reasoning doesn't apply to the Detroit game....
posted by mkn at 11:54 AM on May 02
I think we may be talking about a different face-off, mkn. Carolina had made a line change for that particular face-off. Maybe I have my time left in the game wrong but it was right near the end and the Habs' net was empty.
posted by NoMich at 12:02 PM on May 02
That was the worst call ive ever seen actually there was the highstick pass then the guy kicked the puck in with his foot all i can say is bull shit
posted by jon382005 at 03:39 PM on May 02
Okay, all I've seen is a crappy online highlight video of the controversial goal, but here's me weighing in anyway. It looks like the puck was tipped by the high-ish stick, bounded to the other side of the net, and was put in from there. The stick was above the crossbar, but below the player's shoulder level. Remember, the height of the stick with respect to the crossbar only matters if the stick deflects the puck for a goal. If it's deflected back into normal play (as this one was), "high stick" is a different height standard: it can't be higher than the player's shoulders. This stick was not, so it's fine. As for whether it was kicked in? I have no idea. I couldn't see a thing through that crowd on the tiny screen.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 04:20 PM on May 02
Even on the big screen, it's not all that conclusive.
posted by chicobangs at 04:31 PM on May 02
Good summary about the high stick, Dr. They showed the replays a hundred times last night, and there was not a single angle where you could see the puck before it appeared in the net. Tough to disallow a goal with that kind of evidence. It will be a long time before we see a worse call than the Brett Hull winning goal against the Sabres. That certainly wasn't it.
posted by qbert72 at 04:33 PM on May 02
You know I'm a little worried that wingnut may have gone and hung himself. I was really disgusted with the lackluster play of Legace (who the fuck lets in four goals in the last 17 minutes?) but after watching the games Edmonton won, the Wings just played like a pile of shit. Drose, I think that you are way off in your [predictions. You imply that the Red Wings are going to pull a Loria and self destruct in the off season. Four words. Not going to happen! Regardless of the fact they were bumped in the first round, this is the team the won the President's trophy. They are not going to get rid of players with tons of talent (basically most people on the team). They will just seek to improve the team, not destroy it, someting that starts with getting a quality goaltender.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 04:57 PM on May 02
I hope wingnut is just doing the locked in a dark room in the fetal position listening to the Cure thing. I kind of feel sorry for Legace, he looked really pissed at himself. The worst tongue lashing we could give him is probably nothing compared to what he is putting himself through.
posted by njsk8r20 at 05:33 PM on May 02
I didn't read most of the other posts, so forgive me if I repeat someone else's sentiments... Congrats to the Oilers...I'm not going to let 6 ridiculously officiated games take away from the play of that team. They outplayed the Wings, just as the Flames outplayed them 2 years ago. At times it was as if the Wings were playing against 6 Oilers, and it was just that they were quicker and hungrier. Hopefully this will ramp up the youth movement in Hockeytown (bye-bye Chelios? please oh please?) I want to get emotionally invested in the "new NHL"...I really do...but it's not going to happen with the crap Bettman and Co. try to pass off for officiating nowadays. And it's not entirely the refs' fault, either. They have been ordered to make calls, or they don't work in the playoffs. But they're so hung up on making the tic-tac calls around the puck, that they miss the blatant calls behind the play. And hockey is supposed to be played 5 skaters against 5...not 4 on 4, or 5 on 3, or god forbid, 3 on 3. Someone on the competition committee should go to the next meeting with a rulebook from, say, 1984, and a bunch of game films from the same era, and tell them that's how a game should be called. And is it still too early to say the 2-referee system is a failure? And one more thing...what exactly is Edmonton's beef with Chelios? I mean, I hate the guy, too, and he's on my team, but I don't boo him every time he touches the puck...so what gives?
posted by MeatSaber at 06:17 PM on May 02
Am I the only one happy the Oilers won? Heh. After two periods, I thought the Oil were dead. I was getting ready to jump on Calgary's bandwagon. But Pisani! Hemsky! Clutch! (/me swoons) I'm somewhat surprised to see complaints about the referees from the Detroit side, as I thought games 3 and 4 were very poorly officiated, and mostly in the Wings' favour. Last night, in contrast, was a breath of fresh air. The non-calls weren't egregious, and the calls were for the most part actual penalties. Joannette needs a new job, and soon. Oh, and MeatSaber, I think it's as simple as the fact that Chelios is a punk. Cheap, dirty, and a whiner. That sort of thing looks ok when it's your guy, (we miss you, Esa) but is less than satisfying when he's wearing the wrong colours.
posted by alex_reno at 06:59 PM on May 02
Alex, I'm pretty excited about Edmonton's success, too. I'm thinking of changing my name to Samsonov12.
posted by Samsonov14 at 07:14 PM on May 02
Being from Detroit you would think I would be a huge Wings fan,but that just isn't true. I get harassed every year because I predict this thing happening to them. That is why at this time of year usually my buddy's are all whining about one thing or another and I get to say I told you so. Just as a side note I read in a local newspaper awhile ago that Manny Legace said he knew if he didn't win the whole thing he wouldn't have a job. I guess we've seen the last of the monster 5 hole.
posted by bigpoppav at 07:17 PM on May 02
Hey, Sammy, may I say your namesake is a great player. Just the sort of guy the Oil have needed for quite some time. Offensively creative, good instincts around the net. He and Hemsky seem very dangerous together. I sure hope we can keep him. Did you catch that, Mr. Lowe? Keep Samsonov!
posted by alex_reno at 07:22 PM on May 02
To all the people looking thru red(wing coloured) glasses who were not going to whine but did, the refs did not lose the series for the wings they were outplayed point blank. In previous years when a team lost out thier fans would cry about all the non calls now this year the loses are blamed on to many calls. Let us be realistic the refs make the calls in real time not slow motion and instant replay. They will make mistakes but in the end your team still has to outplay the other team to win. As for the so much bitched about high stick, look at the replay closely you can see it is below the hieght of his shoulder which is the determining factor on this call. It looks real close now stand the oiler up straight as he was bent over and it is not that close at all. Also that part of the play was not reviewable under the nhl rules. As a fan of hockey in general and a bar tender it is getting really old and tired that the refs are causing the loses. Do what Buffalo did to the flyers tonight then your teams leave no doubt. Outplay ,outscore,play better defence within the rules set out in the book and your team will win as well.Hopefully if my flames lose out i can be a man about it congratulate the team that put them out and jump on some other teams bandwagon. In fact i know i will do just that, lets enjoy our right of spring but just remember nobody is perfect and upsets are part of life. go hockey go
posted by patch606 at 09:34 PM on May 02
I can understand bitching about the refs. There’s almost always something to complain about, because it’s damn near impossible to call a game perfectly. I’m still occasionally bitching about the Tim Taylor “toe-in-the-crease” call from the BOS/WAS playoffs in ’98. Taking your frustrations out on the refs is almost as much a part of the game as tailgating or “Potvin sucks” chants.
posted by Samsonov14 at 07:56 AM on May 03
True. To this day, 13 years after Gretzky wiped out Gilmour, I can't say Kerry Fraser's name without instinctively spitting on the floor. It makes it easier to tune out the whining any time someone kvetches about improper refereeing.
posted by chicobangs at 08:05 AM on May 03
... Fraser? Fraser!??! FRAAAAAAAAASOOOOOOOOR!!!!!! *shakes fist at heavens*
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:20 AM on May 03
Sure, bitch ahead, but bitch for the good reasons. Mike Peca elbowed a guy in the face in the middle of the ice, long after he got rid of the puck. It was charging, interference and elbowing all at once. Who's complaining about that obvious non-call? Everyone's bitching about the Hemsky goal, which was ugly for sure, but called correctly (as long as Horcoff's stick touched the puck below his shoulders).
posted by qbert72 at 08:47 AM on May 03
Everybody (well, just Leaf fans really) always talks about this Gretzky/Gilmour thing back in '93. In this day and age of Youtube, is there a video of it somewhere? I've never seen it.
posted by NoMich at 08:51 AM on May 03
You're not logged in. Please log in or register.
Copyright © 2013 SportsFilterAll posts and comments are © their original authors.