Okay guys. I saw Cary Grant push Kate hepburn to the floor in the philadelphia story. He pushed her in the face to the ground. Was that criminal? Confronting is a risky business. Larry is new to KC and he will find out what the fans will tolerate.
Our society accepts and ignores domestic violence in all income levels. I don't agree. I do know it occurs amongst all income levels, but to say it's accepted and ignored, that's a bit of a reach. Domestic violence has been going on forever, but has only had the stigma of bringing it out of people's homes and into the open removed from it relatively recently. When people DO find out this violence is taking place, especially involving individuals they care about (family/friends) they often try their hardest to do something, but intervention often fails. Many times, in the case of a woman being abused, if the abuser is her husband, the woman wants to think it will never happen again, that it was partly, or all her fault, and that she has no place to go and doesn't want to risk tearing the rest of her family apart. And if this woman DOES go through with prosecuting her spouse for his actions, there's no guarantee her hell will be over with and not get worse. It's not necessarily ignored, but it's something that takes many things to all come together correctly to make sure it (the abuse) doesn't continue and/or escalate. There are many programs and agencies set up to help victims of abuse, but, unfortunately, getting a handle on the abuse often creates many other hardships for these people.
Interesting discussion here. We, as a society have, learned to be able to justify behavior. Something or someone has something worse. Look at this aritcle, It give Johnson's stat. When OJ was on trial, there was always a description of his football lore. Kobe-we heard more of his great "same day as trial" performances than we did the charges against him. A punk, is a punk. They should be punished and banned from the game. Like it or not, they are role models. This "rich athlete" mentality is perpetuated by the reportred antics of punk athletes. Things wont changes because its no longer a black and white world. There are just too many shades of gray. Even the "good" guys arent that great.... People are more concerned about their teams doing well then society going to heck in a handbasket. Take a look around we have famous people getting aways with murder and nobody really cares-as long as my team makes it to the playoffs.
dyams- you make a great point. But this is way beyond domestic violence. Many of the arrests of athletes at bars are seen as "boys will be boys". They got in trouble because there is nothing else to do in _______(insert sports city name here. Sex exploits are written off--"hey everybody cheats on their wifes." "Nobody can resist temptation" "Everybody smoke pot whats the big deal" It a world of grays-there is no black and whites. Rules and Laws are meant to be "bended" if not entirely broken. Dyam-you make a great arguement but nobody is listening......
I agree with you daddi.... with the exception of grouping Kolbe Bryant in there. He was never accused of domestic violence. He also did not break the law. Now he did an immoral thing pending on your belief. And the media wanted a story and he was the target.
its no longer a black and white world never was dude. society going to heck in a handbasket you kill me sometimes. A punk, is a punk. They should be punished and banned from the game. Did you ever stop to think this 'punk' element is incorporated into a team on purpose? To use a hockey metaphor, a team made up of Lady Byng finalists wouldn't win a damn thing. Besides, someone needs to be the yin to the goody-two-shoes yang. btw, I'm not condoning Johnson's actions in the least. Dispicable, really. But to think this is a new element society should rid itself of, and other holier than thou rubbish, needs to be called out for the what it is. pigbathwater.
Many good points, but I need to point out that my comments are aimed at society in general, and the privileged, whether they be athletes or other very well-off individuals, move farther and farther away from "regular" society every day. I don't truly believe infidelity, whether it be by a man or woman, is accepted, but I do agree it's often overlooked by many. Domestic and sexual violence, infidelity, etc. DOES ruin many lives. Whether Larry Johnson ever suffers greatly due to this, most individuals will never know. One thing for sure, though, it's always remembered. Johnson is labeled now, and we will probably never hear the stories of how his life is affected negatively in his future. He may aquire wealth, but reputation still counts in many aspects of life, and his has taken a serious blow. His life in pro football will be relatively short, and many doors may have closed on his post-football life (whether it be TV, coaching, etc.).
I disagree completely with daddisamm the NFL has a specific policy related to use of "pot" ask Ricky William, he can attest to that. Does the court see a difference in domestic violence? They are starting to finally! They may let them walk on "pot" use in the court but less and less does domestic violence go un-notice and that's the way it should be! There also are laws enforced on DUI or DWI depending what you state calls it. OK NFL, time to keep in lock step with the law...... If you are convicted of DUI where I worked before retiring it was a felony and any felony conviction at were I work meant you lost your job period. Same with domestic violence. So why doesn't the NFL practice what they preach - it is call the bottom line of making the playoffs. HMMMMM...... Ok does the loss of Larry Johnson affect the playoffs chances of KC..... no Holmes can take up the slack easy and likely would be fine doing that. Does making players just as accountable as regular people make a difference? Yes! Just because they are an athelete doesn't mean they are more important than an engineer who builds a bridge you drive your car on. How would you feel if you knew that person was a drunk that built that bridge you drove your car accross a little less safe maybe? How do you feel as a parent to see atheletes continue to get a way with crimes you can't... a little pissed.... and you wonder why children grow up wondering why atheletes get away with things mom and dad wouldn't...... Make the black and white stand (not on race) on right and wrong...... a crime is a crime there is no excuse you just lost your job period it is that way in the real world. Treat these guys like regular people and this crap will stop! Beat up your wife you don't get 8 or 9 million a year go flip burgers dude. If you get a DUI go flip burgers..... there isn't a stable of unlimited talent and if there is then cut it back to where they don't make that much money. The same rule applies if anyone can flip a burger and anyone can take their place (and they can) replace them and let them flip burgers. They were supposed to have gotten an education anyway weren't they?
Many times, in the case of a woman being abused, if the abuser is her husband, the woman wants to think it will never happen again, that it was partly, or all her fault, and that she has no place to go and doesn't want to risk tearing the rest of her family apart. I'm not going to a domestic violence rant, but I have one comment. The stigma facing women who deal with domestic violence is illustrated by your comments. The idea that the problem is with the women. Not the man who comes home and whacks his wife, but the women who doesn't leave.
bperk, that's not really the point at all. What I mean is it's impossible for any other person, agency, law enforcement, etc. to help out and intervene if the woman (in the example I made) refuses to take the initial steps. It's obvious the person doing the hitting is at fault, but are you under the impression every woman, every time they're hit (beat) rush right out, press charges, and prosecute the guy? Of course they don't. It's a scary thing to do and a scary situation to be faced with. I'm not passing judgment on anyone, just saying it's not as simple as saying everyone "ignores" this violence.
Dont give me this "the NFL has a policy on pot" It is just another justification of behavior---Many simply "go around" the rules--Only the Stupid ones get caught. aka williams. The other sports drug policies are a joke--- My point was not just about domestic abuse. Yes domestic abuse is bad.--But hey if it is just to average bar fight-it boys wil be boys or they are just bored. Thats ok??? Our kids use the same excuse for getting into trouble. "there is nother to do--I am bored" Open your eyes. Its not all about the stats or how good your team does. Kobe was acuse of a violant crime-That should alram someone. its no longer a black and white world never was dude. Never was black and white? Garfield -"I am glad I 'kill you sometime" . To say there never was a black and white world is a joke. In a lot of ways it still is a black and white world---(I am not talking about race as some of you are thinking) The problem is many feel the norm is-"if a rule doesnt wotrk for you break it. For our athletes and celebs its -everything goes. There are many shades of gray.Its hard to say what right and whats wrong. If you dont think the world isnt going to heck in a handbasket- your are really blind. Try raising kids and tell me that they world doesnt scare you!
Domestic violence is wrong on any level. Sexual assault is wrong on any level. It shouldn't matter if you're an athlete, or a truck driver. But the fact is, it does. It's time that all people, regardless of background accept responsibility for their actions. And as for it not being a black and white world...try being Black in America for a few days, and see if that's the case.
I don't know about the woman being at fault. My mother was abused by my father and the reason it took her so long to leave was because he controled her every move and manipulated her. He told her she had no options in life and no one would help her. She married at 17 and had no idea what to do. I agree some women should know better, but many are too scared shitless to do anything. It's a shame. As for all people of all income do it, yeah they do. But it's not highlighted, and they aren't a many young boy's role models who want to emmulate them. That's the difference.
btw, I'm not condoning Johnson's actions in the least. Dispicable, really. But to think this is a new element society should rid itself of, and other holier than thou rubbish, needs to be called out for the what it is. pigbathwater. Holier than thou? I am just making a opinion. I didnt say anything about religion, faith or "repent ye sinners" I am merely pointing out that we need to stop rationalizing behavior. Stop making excuses for Punks who have no regards for the law.....- There is more to life than winning some ballgame, cup or championship..... I never said their was a new element in society--only that its becoming the norm........
I rest my case!
I got money she hit him first on the dance floor. She was probably drunk got out of hnd and got thrown to the floor.. Thats not domestic violence to me. If he would of hit her then okay. Women are quick to hit there man but when he stops her then its abuse. Although i do have THE PREIST on my team and they should lock him up anyways.
I got money she hit him first on the dance floor. She was probably drunk got out of hnd and got thrown to the floor.. Thats not domestic violence to me. If he would of hit her then okay. Women are quick to hit there man but when he stops her then its abuse. You sound like a prince. I bet the ladies love you. And, dyams, my point is that the emphasis is placed on the woman and what she should be doing. As long as that is the case and everyone waits around for an abused women to "wake up", then I am going to say that it is being ignored. For further info, see Tina's example.
Its always simple to tell the woman to "wake up". However, As Tina stated, the problem goes much deeper than that. Domestic abuse is not easy problem to solve and it takes many differant forms and can happen in any level of Society. My point, through out this whole discussion, has been that violence and or ciminal activity seems to take a back seat to a players performance on the field. That, my friends, is wrong!
If you dont think the world isnt going to heck in a handbasket- your are really blind. Try raising kids and tell me that they world doesnt scare you! Is the sky falling too daddisamm? Every generation of parents in the history of the civilized world has i'm sure said that before and yet we're still here. And does anybody know where the phrase "hell in a handbasket" came from?
origins are a bit uncertain
send him to oakland with the other misfits we will put him to work. BUT NOT SAYING WHAT HE DID WAS RIGHT!
Not trying to put many people down but the whole disscussion was about how LJ is a horrible person, and should be crucified. I was just pointing out that, if you were cheating on your wife and you wife cought you do you really think that it would be you trying to throw the first blow?.....I dont tink so
garfield-Thanks for looking that up-very interesting..
Does anyone really know what happened in this case? Not really, so arguing is poinless. There is so much gray area in cases like this. Unless someone can definately say what heppened at the night club, then forget about it. One thing I have learned is not to trust the media. Bad news sells, so they sell bad news. If you dont think the world isnt going to heck in a handbasket- your are really blind. Try raising kids and tell me that they world doesnt scare you! This statement does have a "holier then though" appearance mainly because it implies that if you dont have kids, you dont have moral conscience enough to detect problems in society. I agree with you that there are problems in society. Its not our society though, its people. As long as there are people in a society, there will be problems in it. Always has been, it is no different today. Sorry its just one of my pet peeves when people use a "doomsday" esque reference to society today. Society is not worse, you are probably just changing your stance in society. (evident by the "try raising children" remark)
This statement does have a "holier then though" appearance mainly because it implies that if you dont have kids, you dont have moral conscience enough to detect problems in society. I agree with you that there are problems in society. Its not our society though, its people. As long as there are people in a society, there will be problems in it. Always has been, it is no different today. Sorry its just one of my pet peeves when people use a "doomsday" esque reference to society today. Society is not worse, you are probably just changing your stance in society. (evident by the "try raising children" remark) posted by jabes05 at 1:50 PM CST on September 15 I think you mean "Thou". Other than that I am not sure what you are saying. My "stance" on society has changed over the years-I like to think that as you get older, you grow "wiser" Things are not what they were 30 years ago. You are just foooling yourself if you think that there hasnt been any change in our Society!
You are fooling yourself if you think that growing older means growing "wiser". Also, couple of corrections for you to keep in mind- However, As Tina- I think you meant ", as Tina" it takes many differant -different (spelled with an e) My point, through out this whole discussion- you mean throughout players performance on the field- that would be player's performance
You're a little late to the Grammer 'n' Spellin' Hoedown,,,
