I'm all for this rule. I have hated the pro wrestling feel to the NBA style basketball for years. This is a good first step, now they need to address the travelling calls, or lack thereof.
if any professional soccer leagues have ever done anything like this The thing to remember about soccer, unlike most American sports, is that leagues do not set their own rules (as far as officiating the game is concerned): it is called the "world's game" for a reason. Everyone, everywhere, whether it be the Premier League in England or some amateur village league in central Africa, is playing by the exact same rules (ie, the Laws of the Game). Leagues don't set their own rules: FIFA does (or to be technically correct, the International Football Association Board does). The best that the various national football associations and leagues can do is to give their referees guidelines about how to interpret the Laws of the Game. Flopping/diving/simulation has always been against the rules in soccer if it is an attempt to cheat so as to gain an undeserved free kick or penalty kick. The problem is that the game is fast flowing and non-stop and there is no time to watch replays; it is therefore very rare for a ref to penalize a player for flopping; more commonly these attempts to draw a call are simply ignored by the ref unless they are extremely blatant. There have been proposals in soccer to do after-match video analysis to punish floppers, too, but there are similiar objections to this in soccer as there is in basketball. The problem has gotten worse as the game has internationalized; different countries have different cultural tolerances for flopping/diving/simulation. In Britain, North American and parts of northern Europe for instance it is very much frowned on but in Latin America or parts of southern Europe it is more likely to be accepted as "part of the game". That wasn't a big deal when the game was isolated within each country but now that you have players from all over the world playing in top leagues all over the world, you have conflicts over just how much of this sort of thing is tolerable. Soccer and basketball are quite similar in this respect in being international games. Interesting how flopping is allegedly an issue that will ensure that soccer will allegedly "never" be acceptable to Americans, yet flopping isn't an issue with basketball being acceptable to Americans.
The offense that really drives me nuts is the Reggie Miller-style kick after shooting that is called a foul. If anything, this ought to be an offensive foul, resulting in any made field goal being nullified and posession being given to the defenders. I dislike the idea that a shooter can initiate contact and be rewarded for it. This is far worse than flopping. That is actually an offensive foul (as of a few years ago), and it was instituted because of Reggie Miller... Or how he traveled on that play...Or how the Laker's shot right beforehand hit the rim and the shot clock should have been reset... My thoughts exactly. The NBA is stupid for coming out after the game and questioning the ref's call. The players can't do it, so why should the league. Part of any sport is bad calls and make up calls...
Or how he traveled on that play...Or how the Laker's shot right beforehand hit the rim and the shot clock should have been reset... I agree in principle here. I didn't see the end of the game, but the part I saw seemed poorly officiated. That's a shame for a conference finals game.
To all the Spurs haters,I agree Manu flops alot (i get especially irrited when he drives the lane, heaves up a prayer and, whether he makes it or not, immediately put his hand on his mouth like he got popped) but there are players that are plenty worse. kirilenko comes to mind as well as derek fisher. CONSPIRACY THEORY ALERT: All the flopping in the world doesn't matter because the NBA decides before the game starts who is going to win. It's been pretty obvious to me that, since the playoffs have started, the NBA is going to do anything to get the lakers/celtics into the finals so they can try to rekindle the good old days from magic/larry. How many times must I watch kobe duck his shoulder and bull through a defender to get a basket and not get called for charging? Or how about Duncan getting knocked on his ass while making a shot and not getting an "and one" call. Better yet, the jersey grabbing celtics that seem to never get called for anything they do wrong. The NBA is the perfect opportunity to pull of this stunt because the referees are in a perfect position to add/take points off the board and virtually control every aspect of a game including killing momentum. David Stern is as crooked any as commisioner in pro sports. He fixed the NBA draft in 1986 for christs sake, does any one really think he would turn a blind eye pre determining games if it was going to make a little extra money. and for anyone who thinks my opinionis wrong or that it's just down right bullshit i give you tim doneghy(or however you spell his name. I d not believe he was the only NBA ref to pull this crap off and he already he admitted he would ref games in his favor. Instead of trying to punish floppers I say do something so that the officiating is more even.
I'm a die hard Pistons fan but I wouldn't go as far to say there is a conspiracy against them. Especially not after watching them in game three.
Rasheed Wallace dropped a few F-bombs (click the video on the top right of the page) after a recent game and now Henry Abbott is championing him as the NBA's Vice Commissioner of Anti-Flopping.
All the flopping in the world doesn't matter because the NBA decides before the game starts who is going to win. Neither the Spurs nor the Pistons would have ever glimped the NBA finals if this was the case. Have you so quickly forgotten the ratings killer that was the NBA finals last year with the Spurs/Cavs?
Nice post dave2007, I think what you wrote about how globalization of soccer has created cultural problems about what is fair play and what is cheating is dead on. The same goes for basketball. Players from Argentina or Serbia or Italy will always bring these "gamesmanship" aspects to any sport. For those of you who think that the league will be able to shame guys like Ginobili into not flopping (pink armbands and all that), you are dead wrong. That kind of "cheating" is so ingrained in his culture (and many others) that its not just accepted, it's applauded. If you do it well, you are admired and respected.
That is actually an offensive foul (as of a few years ago), and it was instituted because of Reggie Miller... Then why is it rarely called that way? Most of the times I have seen it, it was called against the defender, most recently Chauncey Billups vs Rajan Rondo in Celtics vs Pistons, game 4.
The yellow card for diving in assoc. football has been used more in recent years, but it's most prominent in penalty box situations, where the referee is usually compelled to do something: you either point to the spot or you punish the offender. (Or you can just let it go, but that doesn't happen too often these days.) In basketball, I think calling the T for an egregious flop -- especially situations where the flopper is trying to turn a regular foul into a flagrant one -- is more appropriate than an after-match fine. It's unsporting conduct, and it's more T-worthy than swearing in the officials' earshot.
especially situations where the flopper is trying to turn a regular foul into a flagrant one -- is more appropriate than an after-match fine. That's becoming harder to do, though. During the playoffs, it hasn't even been so much flopping for me, but even on clear fouls that get called, players act like they've just been shot by their mother while the offender is in complete shock that a foul was committed.
There wouldn't be so much flopping around if the refs actually called offensive fouls. Which they rarely do. Especially with marquee players, which is total bullshit. I dunno. I've watched a lot of playoff games this season and a bunch of games down the regular season stretch and the thing that most bugs me about the NBA is the totally inconsistent refereeing.
Agreed. While there is bound to be some human error the NBA is known for giving stars special treatment and having inconsistant refereeing. Instead of focusing on the way players dress perhaps David Stern should focus fixing the league's officiating problems.
Semi-related: did anyone see that Salvatore offensive foul call against Paul Pierce when he was shooting a 3 in Game 6 of the Pistons/Celtics series? Michael Wilbon rightly called it "The worst call in the history of the playoffs". It was arguably a travel call (only in that his pivot foot did shuffle a tiny bit), but that's moot given that this was as much a "My bookie wants to make sure the Pistons cover the spread" call as any I've seen. youtube.com So I think we can all agree: refs suck, man! When they're not gambling on the games, they're just plain incompetent. If Stern weren't an awful human being in every facet of his person, he'd probably do something to fix the officiating. Guess he's too busy helping steal the Sonics from Seattle by breaking a binding arena contract when their "I'll take my team and go home!" foot stomping attempt to get a new stadium at taxpayer expense didn't work...
I'm still trying to convince my wife that my reaction to that call wasn't overstated. She's not buying it.
I was at the game and where we were sitting nobody could figure out why Paul Pierce was called for that foul. Not that we were complaining...
CONSPIRACY THEORY ALERT: All the flopping in the world doesn't matter because the NBA decides before the game starts who is going to win. It's been pretty obvious to me that, since the playoffs have started, the NBA is going to do anything to get the lakers/celtics into the finals so they can try to rekindle the good old days from magic/larry. Here's my theory: The Lakers had the best record in the West, a strong indicator that they were the best team in the West. The Celtics had the best record in the East (and the league), a strong indicator that they were the best team in the East. The two best teams end up in the Finals. Conspiracy?
