Grum, good answer about that particular criticism. Jon Heyman's piece on CNNSI today comes the closest to nailing why Torre needs to go, and how the Yankees should approach the next few months. Plain and simple, this team needs an attitude change. No, Torre does not run, hit, pitch, or field, but the great pile of talent that he has on the field, the one that has no problem winning 95 games in the regular season, has completely rolled over in the playoffs the last 3 years, and 4 of the last 5. They just quit. No heart at all. I knew that game 4 was over the minute Monroe hit that home run. It was only the 2nd inning, but I knew it was over because every Yankee gave up right then. You could see it in their faces and in how they played the rest of the way. The same thing happened last year against some no-name pitcher with the Angels, and the year before for four agonizing games against the Sox. This is a leadership thing, and regardless of how well Torre handles the media, and the boss, and the egos (which I think is all a bunch of bull anyway - the egos of Jeter and ARod are a huge issue right now and have been all along), he isn't bringing anything to the table to get these guys fired up, or pissed off, or excited. He's had 11 great years, but it's time to go. I'm not sold on Lou yet, but I think it's got to be someone else. Maybe Girardi would be the guy. He's a Torre disciple but he also did tell his owner to F off, so that could be a great combination of calm and fire. We'll see.
Now, goddam, are you just looking at things in the stadium and saying that you love them? ya got me chico. i was giving myself an out in case bpp goes and says something silly in the future. my spacebar really broke today. it's a pain in the ass pasting spaces after every word.
Conditional love is the truthiest kind because you have to earn it. Kind of like managing the Yankees, I guess. goddam: paste in a whole bunch of spaces at the beginning, then use the right arrow as your spacebar. Might be easier.
that was an Anchorman quip from chico that went over everyone's head. You people need to watch more tv.
the great pile of talent that he has on the field, the one that has no problem winning 95 games in the regular season, has completely rolled over in the playoffs the last 3 years, and 4 of the last 5. They just quit. No heart at all. There's a simple reason for that, if you'll allow me: no David Cone, Paul O'Neill, no Joe Girardi, no Roger Clemens, no Andy Pettitte. They just don't have any sergeants that will get in the other guys' faces and will them not to quit. I thought Jeter was this kind of player back in the day, but I think he needs the same bolstering everyone else does.
It's as bad if not worse than watching Roger Clemens Clemens was a Blue Jay before he was a Yankee, so it's still a bit painful to see him performing so well (although, not as well as when he was a Blue Jay, possibly his best two consecutive years in his career).
I know what it is to watch your former players spread all over the post-season. You mean like: Milton Bradley, Scott Sauerbeck, Sean Casey, Jaret Wright, Kenny Lofton, Guillermo Mota(stretch), Ronnie Belliard, Dave Roberts, Brian Giles, Josh Bard, and Russell Branyan. We Indians fans know that feeling also. That list is just from this post season.
Brian Giles But you just HAD to have Ricardo Rincon!
No, not really. That was another one of those things that pissed me off.
Any time you decide you want Jaret Wright back...
I just want to note this down as the most astute and perceptive piece of original insight that SportsFilter has ever, ever seen. Congratulations and thank you, BornIcon -- no one ever said that before, but now that you have, I feel an epiphany coming on. I'm a changed bat Thanx lil_brown_bat, but I sense a bit of sarcasm from u when all u ever really do is comment on what other people have to say. Come up with ur conclusions on subjects otherwise, ur just here for comic relief and ur really not that funny. Sorry...someone had to tell u.
Yeah, LBB. Why don't you come back when you're better able to regurgitate stuff you heard on the FAN using AOL-speak.
t0rr3 === luz3r. LOL!!!!!1!
Okay, BornIcon, I'll give you this much: you were only one of many who regurgitated a tired old truism (the business about how a big payroll doesn't buy you championships), and you didn't deserve the sarcasm any more than the rest of them. However, the plural "you" did deserve it: just as you're not the only person who uttered the line about big payrolls, so were you not the only person in my mind when I commented on the unoriginality of this sentiment. There is no good reason why tired old truisms should have unassailable sacred status, or be treated as if they represent original thought, and this one was overdue to be run through. If it stings more than you like, well...what can I say? Reading regurgitated tired old truisms makes me more nauseous than I like, so maybe we should just call it even and move on? Oh, and as for my conclusions on the subject of the Yankees' 2006 post-season performance? Posted above. One sentence plus one interjection. At this time I decline to join in the premature analysis-fest.
the business about how a big payroll doesn't buy you championships The Irony: if the Yankees DID win the World Series, these very same people would say they bought the championship.
Actually, the "tired old truism" that as you so eloquently put it, that I 'regurgitated' is fact. Everyone and their mother thought the Yankees were on there way to another World Series with the talent (and $$) that went into building the 2006 Yankees. If it stings more than you like, well...what can I say? You have got to be kidding, right? This here is nothing more than a few people whose opinions really don't matter (except to ourselves) but feel as if their voices need to be heard, regardless if you agree or not. I personally enjoy having the freedom to express my thoughts on this site and having people agree or disagree with what I have to say. So for you to assume that your comments 'sting' is not only tooting your own horn like if you said something meaningful but also juvenile. I don't mind having an intellectual conversation but it just seems to me when the subject is about sports, everyone is right and no one is wrong. Stings? I have to agree with that BullpenPro cause that's exactly what would've been said.
lbb, you have been jest a mite touchy about your Yankees, though understandably so. Spring training is just around the corner...
Damn. I knew I should have gotten some popcorn for lunch.
All Yankee fans are a bit touchy this time of year and rightfully so. Knowing that they had a $200 million payroll and no championship to show for it, can bring out the worst in any fan. All I had to say was that the Yankees had a great year and were put in position to at least make it to the World Series and failed. No one thought that Detroit would make it past the mighty Yankees but look what happened. It's like a 'friend of mine' said about "tired old truism": When your at the top, the fall is a long way down. Damn. I knew I should have gotten some popcorn for lunch I guess T.O. WAS right; GET YOUR POPCORN READY
BornIcon: Actually, the "tired old truism" that as you so eloquently put it, that I 'regurgitated' is fact. I know. That's what a truism is, more or less ("an undoubted or self-evident truth; especially one too obvious for mention" - Webster). Second time now: I never denied that it was fact...but it's also obvious, and has been said or referred to a bunch of times. It's also, IMO, simplistic: of course money doesn't buy a championship, but would anyone deny that it does ease the way through the vale of tears that is MLB? Would anyone deny that it expands a team's options? Simply repeating that money doesn't buy championships neither advances the discussion of what does get you a championship, nor does it lay any questions to rest. I'm okay if you don't see it that way, but not so okay if you insist on seeing my disdain for a cliche as some kind of personal attack. Second time now, it wasn't. On preview: It's like a 'friend of mine' said about "tired old truism": When your at the top, the fall is a long way down. So, who's this "friend of yours"?
Someone with the same damn homonym problem I have, apparently. I don't think it's me, though.
I don't mind having an intellectual conversation but it just seems to me when the subject is about sports, everyone is right and no one is wrong. Yeah...can't we just get a wrong?
torre is staying. (via Peter Abraham)
torre is staying. (via Peter Abraham) More here
Good decision by the Yankee brass if this stands true come spring training. Torre isn't the problem and axing him would have been cutting off the nose to spite the face.
It's kind of an ugly nose though. And face, for that matter.
Touche.
lil_brown_bat: See, this is the problem. People don't know when to let things go. I, in no way shape, form or fashion said that it was a 'personal attack'. It was more or less about you trying to belittle my opinion because of your 'disdain for a cliche' that I so happened to use to make my point. I have no problem whatsoever if you disagree with what I have to say. Actually, I encourage it so let bygones be bygones. By the way, I don't need Webster's definition of what truism means but thanks for the clarification for those that do not know what that word means. Very valuable info if that helps. Another thing friend, Pronunciation: 'frend Function: noun Etymology: Middle English frend, from Old English frEond; akin to Old High German friunt friend, Old English frEon to love, frEo free : one attached to another by affection or esteem : ACQUAINTANCE : one that is not hostile : one that is of the same nation, party, or group Does that help you any?
People don't know when to let things go. You don't say? I've never noticed that before around here. Must've been a one-time deal.
Does that help you any? Not really. I'm just getting more confused. You can chalk that up to whatever you want; I'm done here.
The new rumors are that Steinbrenner is going to keep Torre. As a baseball fan, I am glad to hear this because it is a sensible and wise decision. As a Red Sox fan, I fear another year of Torre's excellent leadership. Anyhow, good for Torre. He deserves to keep his job.
