July 23, 2006

I think it's a little early to throw him under the bus for his fielding. He is still an above average fielder for his position. One of the errors he was charged with was throwing wide to first base, and making Giambi have to leave the bag to catch it and attempt a sweep tag on the runner. He missed, so the batter was safe. Interestingly enough, the previous game Derek Jeter made the exact same mistake, causing Giambi to leave the bag and have to make a sweep tag on the runner. He connected (as it was a slower runner), so the batter was out. ARod gets an error. Jeter doesn't. But nobody wants to mention that Jeter might have screwed up... On the throw to home, Posada refused to lift his foot from home plate to take an extra step to catch the ball, even though he had enough time to do so and then step back and get the force play. So the ball sails just out of his reach, and ARod gets the error. "It's just like hitting. You go through little funks," Rodriguez said. Exactly. Time to move him to right field? Maybe DH? How about moving him back to his natural position, the one where he earned two Gold Gloves? But of course, no one wants to contemplate the idea of moving Derek "The Ball Just Gets By" Jeter... I think the Yanks need to go ahead and get him out of there. Yes, you need to trade away the reigning MVP because of a few errors. As a Jays fan, I hope they lose their collective minds and deal him out of the AL.

posted by grum@work at 01:03 PM on July 23, 2006

On the throw to home, Posada refused to lift his foot from home plate to take an extra step to catch the ball, even though he had enough time to do so and then step back and get the force play. So the ball sails just out of his reach, and ARod gets the error. Was it a force play? I thought it wasn't. Regardless, I disagree. I think the whole arod saga is nonsense. But that's a little league throw, and he couldn't pull it off, in that instance. Seems people fall into two camps. Throw him under the bus or make excuses for him. That was a bad throw on an easy play. But it was one play.

posted by justgary at 01:21 PM on July 23, 2006

Rodriguez's sloppy defense hurting Yankees. How exactly is hurting the Yanks? They won the fucking game. I'm not opposed to switching Jeter and A-rod around or putting A-rod at short, Jeter at second and trying out Cano/Cario at third. If is Philips available as an almost every day 1st baseman, Giambi as a DH, you can play around with the Cano(when healthy)/Cario/A-Rod/ Jeter infield combo. Unfortunatly the season is winding down and there may not be time for such fine tuning.

posted by HATER 187 at 01:36 PM on July 23, 2006

Ok I can see that grum. I guess there's not much NY can do about it this late in the season. However if he doesn't figure out where his fielding went to then maybe they should be looking for another 3rd base glove during the off season to put out there and start thinking of A-Rod as future DH material sooner then they planned. 3rd base is just too important to keep a shaky glove at for any real length of time. imho

posted by commander cody at 02:33 PM on July 23, 2006

Just to give you an idea of how silly it is to react about a small stretch of bad fielding: Brooks Robinson 4 errors in 5 games July 15 1958 to July 19 1958 April 24 1974 to April 28 1974

posted by grum@work at 02:42 PM on July 23, 2006

i was wondering what took so long to get an a-rod thread going around here. don't have too much to add to the "trade him/move him" comments as grum has done a pretty good job, as always. except that i'm pretty sure andy phillips was playing first in those examples you gave, not giambi:-) and like gary said, it wasn't a force play. posada apparently wasn't expecting the throw to go home (the infield was playing back), and froze on the bad throw. comparing this to knoblauch is ridiculous. even if he's only 8 errors away from chuck, he's no where near the kind of problems that chuck was having. this is his third year at that position. we're long past the "he's out of his position" phase. he's played a solid third before, he's perfectly capable of doing it again. i'm not sure if it's his fielding that affecting his hitting or vice versa. but once he gets on track with one of those things, i think (hope) the other will follow. on preview: yeah, tieguy, his numbers aren't that great right now. but, he's still a player that's capable of doing a lot better. and i think that's the argument against running him out of town or moving him to rf/dh.

posted by goddam at 03:11 PM on July 23, 2006

2005: 17th of 19 qualified MLB 3B in range factor, 18th of 19 in zone rating, 5th of 19 in fielding %age 2004: 18th of 21 qualified MLB 3B in range factor, 9th of 21 in fielding %age, 6th of 21 in zone rating So, yeah, in 2004 he was slightly above average (to be generous, ignoring range factor); in 2005 he was among the very worst in the league at his position, and he looks on pace to match that this year. He's never been substantially above average at 3B.

posted by tieguy at 03:45 PM on July 23, 2006

Hey here's a brainy idea...why not put A-Rod at FIRST BASE guys and then we can all SHUT UP about this. I mean, hey, look at the last shortstop stud to move across the diamond...he's not doing too bad over in Los Angles (I'm referring to Nomar). Plus this lets the Yankees keep Giambi at DH, the best place for him.

posted by chemwizBsquared at 04:31 PM on July 23, 2006

Thats a big minus in the lineup. yeah, but now you got nick green/miguel cairo at 3rd. that'll fill in the hole in the lineup.

posted by goddam at 05:01 PM on July 23, 2006

yeah, but now you got nick green/miguel cairo at 3rd. that'll fill in the hole in the lineup. Playing "Who is that guy? / I've never heard of him" is my favorite part of watching Yankee games. For a farm system that was "empty" you do have to give the kids credit.

posted by jerseygirl at 06:15 PM on July 23, 2006

But then you lose either ARod or Giambi in interleague play/World Series? Thats a big minus in the lineup. It was only a suggestion...besides, don't you need some kind of range at first base anyways? Albert Pujoles came up as a 3rd baseman and he plays first for the Cardinals now...so why can't this work? Otherwise, when the season ends, move A-Rod to Sheffield's spot seeing as the Yankees are probably not going to resign him... Oh yeah does it really matter...the AL is that much stronger than the NL anyways (though I will always be a NL guy)

posted by chemwizBsquared at 07:20 PM on July 23, 2006

i do think that the crowd and the media are getting to a-rod right now and contributing to his poor play. that will happen to anybody. i think he's not in the same place as knoblauch, because knoblauch had personal problems to deal with at the same time (his father/mentor had alzheimer's and a messy divorce) that a-rod, to my knowledge, doesn't have right now. the pressure has been there since day one and he had a pretty good year last year, after an ok (by a-rod standards) 2004. but he carried the team through the ALDS that year and his first 3 games of the ALCS were pretty good too. so he's capable of putting up the numbers and playing a good third base in new york. what i am refuting is the notion that when he gets his shit together and plays like he knows how to, he'll still get booed, as guys like phillips have suggested. they've already written him off that he will never succeed in new york because he's had a rough year so far and doesn't have the mental makeup to deal with it. they try to back it up by saying that he was mvp last year and player of the month in may but he's still getting booed. well, being player of the month in may doesn't get the yankees to the playoffs and fans know that. there really aren't any instances that jump out at me from last year where he was booed like he has been this year. he would get mvp chants practically every time he was up. i think this all started when the press and talk radio pointed the finger at him for the Yankees inability to get out of the first round of the playoffs last year. many fans picked up on that and have been giving him shit since opening day. the rest of us know that he wasn't the only one who failed to produce in the playoffs, and without him they might not have even made the playoffs. the way to get them out of your head is to play like you're capable of. just ask giambi. fans wanted to run him out of town last year. he started to hit again and he's welcomed back with open arms. i'm not saying that there still won't be fans that don't like a-rod, but the booing will stop or at least be drowned out by cheers (there will always be mooks who will boo just to boo.) how is pedro relevant in the bronx? he gets booed because he's the enemy. the whole point is to get inside his head. and unless i'm mistaken, he's not getting booed in queens. now, beltran was booed last year, but he seems to have bounced back. it all comes down to whether a-rod can overcome whatever mental block he has. wishful thinking maybe, but i think he can. i think he's just too good of a player not to.

posted by goddam at 09:30 PM on July 23, 2006

Pedro in his prime, or even on, and you can chant anything you want, it won't matter. hell, i remember when he first went to the sox, there were some games where there were probably more people at the stadium cheering for pedro than against him.

posted by goddam at 10:22 PM on July 23, 2006

Thanks goddam. That's what I thought, which is why I disagree with grums assessment of the play. Posada was preparing for the tag not to mention blocking the plate on a player running full speed. I double checked, and you are correct, it wasn't a force play. However, Posada was standing upright with one foot on home plate waiting for the throw and was definitely not in a position to "block the plate" if there was a need. The fact that it wasn't a force play, in my mind, means that Posada DEFINITELY needs to step away from the plate to make the catch. At that point, he'll still have to make a tag, but at least he'll have the ball and might fake out the ump (or force Hill wide on the inside). Worst case, he catches the ball and fails to make the tag, but Johnson (the batter) doesn't advance to second base. I agree it was a bad throw and deserving of an error, but Posada didn't do anything to help aleviate the problem.

posted by grum@work at 11:20 PM on July 23, 2006

As much as he is hurting the team with his defensive miscues, he is naturally talented and that will come back when all is said and done. There is nothing like batting between .400 and .500 in the month of August to make everyone forget about his errors.

posted by Yankeelover at 12:27 AM on July 24, 2006

I agree it was a bad throw and deserving of an error, but Posada didn't do anything to help aleviate the problem. Agreed. I'm not saying there wasn't more that posada could do, or that if he had another chance he wouldn't make the play differently. I wish I could see the play again, but if I remember correctly Arod was pretty close and threw pretty hard. The ball look like it tailed. Posada wasn't in position yet to block the plate, but he was surely thinking of it, as well as what his next play after the out would be. Arod, and most third basemen, make that play 98 out of a 100 times. Basically, posada could save the play, but it was arod who killed it. That was an easy throw with plenty of time, and I think it took posada by surprise. and although he may not admit it publicly, some of the things he's doing may well be "intentional" For someone who seems to like arod, you couldn't insult him any worse.

posted by justgary at 01:33 AM on July 24, 2006

I hope it's not long until he says "I want out", goes to Boston, and helps bring 5 consecutive World Series to Beantown! I don't want him.

posted by jerseygirl at 05:53 AM on July 24, 2006

I love Mike Lowell. The defense at third has been amazing, the hitting has (up until recently) been a godsend and his sense of humor* has made him even more fun to watch. That said, no way the Sox are a better team with him at third than A-Rod playing out of position. * In the past month he's 1.) purposely dropped an infield fly to try to get a double play and then looked over at the third base ump with a sly smile. 2.) Saturday he got beat by a swinging bunt that absolutely died in the grass (nothing he could do). When it got to him he made a point of kicking it foul before he picked it up.

posted by yerfatma at 06:12 AM on July 24, 2006

* In the past month he's 1.) purposely dropped an infield fly to try to get a double play and then looked over at the third base ump with a sly smile. How can he do that? Isn't that what the infield fly rule is supposed to prevent? Is nothing sacred???

posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:29 AM on July 24, 2006

He's not slugging as he usually does and his production has been pretty low given he hits third on a Yankee team with Damon and Jeter in front of him actually, he's hitting cleanup, and i think that's a (small) part of the problem. especially with no sheff or matsui in the lineup to protect him. i'm not making excuses, i'm just saying he's not seeing the pitches he would see if someone other than posada was hitting behind him. torre needs to move a-rod from the cleanup spot while he's in this slump. maybe move him after damon. he always hit better when he was second anyways.

posted by goddam at 08:41 AM on July 24, 2006

It's still amazing to me, though, how many major league players continue to be confused with the "Infield Fly" rule. Lowell dropping the ball, even though the batter is out, could result in a runner having a brain cramp and attempting to leave his base. It's not that bad a play.

posted by dyams at 08:57 AM on July 24, 2006

LBB...please send you're explanation of the rule to every little league umpire you can find. I have argued this at least 4 times in the last couple of years. I'm amazed at how many times this rule is missed or misunderstood at lower levels. But anyway, A-rod will be fine. I'd hate to see this referred to as the curse of the A-rod in 80 yrs if they should trade him.

posted by louisville_slugger at 09:43 AM on July 24, 2006

A-Rod will get his game sorted out, eventually. If its not with the Yankees then so much the better. But there's zero chance he's going to the Red Sox, zippinglou. (I could have sworn I posted this comment last night, darned deja vu). justgary, the Pedro reference might not be totally appropriate but I was using it to demonstrate that the fans can get into someone's head.

posted by fenriq at 10:04 AM on July 24, 2006

I really wanted him when Boston was about to trade for him, but since then, there's something about his personality I don't dig. It probably has to do with the uniform he is currently wearing. Every single piece of media about Arod's slump has included quotes from him about how he knows he's having problems right now, but he'll come around. He hasn't bashed his teammates, the fans, the media or tried to make excuses. He's just about the most boring interview for a dirt-digging reporter you can find.

posted by grum@work at 12:14 PM on July 24, 2006

Yerfatma didn't give all the details. I guess there's an easy presumption that the infield fly rule would apply, but it's not necessarily true -- the IFR only goes into effect with runners on 1st and 2nd or the bases loaded. It would not go into effect if there is only a runner on first. On a short humpback with a slow runner at the plate, Lowell could let the ball drop in hopes that he can still turn two. He's not allowed to do that -- there is an "intentionally dropped fly ball" rule that applies if, in the umps judgement, an infielder allowed an easy fly ball to fall for his benefit. I'm guessing that's what happened, since it sounds like the ump ruled specifically against Lowell's actions (I don't believe the "intentionally dropped fly ball" rule applies when the IFR has already been called, but I could be wrong -- where's elovrich when I need him?). Many may argue that for the money Alex is getting paid, the fans have the right to boo him when he doesn't contribute. I would say it has less to do with what A-Rod is making and more to do with what the Yankee fans are paying to go to the park. I don't care if you're the reigning MVP or Kris Wilson, if you are hurting the team with your play, you are going to hear it from a passionate and vocal fan base that pays through the nose to see a high-quality product. I see nothing wrong with that at all. As for the fans loving a guy who makes $18 mil and hating a guy who makes $25, that is, I believe, strictly a count-the-rings issue. That goes pretty far, but not too far -- I've even heard Mariano Rivera get booed at Yankee Stadium.

posted by BullpenPro at 12:40 PM on July 24, 2006

I don't know grum. I've tried to seperate the pinstripes from the equation. It's not bashing, really, its just an insincerity I get from him. Everyone is a "good friend" of his. I'm neither a fan of the Yanks or Red Sox, and I think ARod is a phony, too. He takes himself way too seriously. I just want to tell him to relax. Doesn't he know that he plays a game for a living?

posted by bperk at 12:58 PM on July 24, 2006

As a Yanks fan, the bottom line that everyone is over looking is that Arod is a head case. Told the entire public during spring training that he is in therapy. His wife is a shrink. The guys got issues. He will come out of thsis slump and will carry us the rest of the way, but to assume moving him from 3rd and DH is pathetic guys. Got forbid move him to short. Thats Jeters turf, and AROD does not diserve to play short. He can handle third just fine. He is the most gifted player in the game and stays healthy every season. He will always have Arod type numbers at the end of the season but it means nothing when he cant come through on a consistent basis in clutch situations. He had one great playoff series against the Twins for the Yanks but then shit the bed in the 4 game come back by the BoSox and shit the bed last year against the Angels. Everyone played poorly but as the so called best player in the league, it just does not cut it, especially in New York. Arod said he only came to New York to win a World Series. "No Shit Arod. join the club". This guy only cares about himself. If you read any Yanks article it is always about him. He talks and talks and talks. Notice every comment Jeter makes to reporters is usually one sentence. Same as Posada, Bernie, and Mo. Those guys are winners and there is a reason. They go out there and play. They hit, they field, they compete. The problem is that AROD wants what Jeter has so bad that he cant handle it. AROD could not hold Jeters jock strap. 4 world series, World Series MVP in 1999, two last straight Gold Gloves in 04 and 05. Plays in the field that will go down in history,(Oakland relay to home, catch in the stands that AROD could not get to) Clutch HR's in the World series in extra innings. Jeter is the man in New York, period. AROD will never compare in the minds of the fans. Jeter goes down as one of the greatest Yankees to every put on the pinstripes. AROD could go down as the same over the next 8 seasons in NY if he delivers a World Series as well as break Hank Aarons HR record if he stays healthy. The guy is as talented and capable as it gets. It is all mental.

posted by Eddie66 at 01:06 PM on July 24, 2006

If he played on any other team he would be considered an average shortstop Heh. Yeah. An average shortstop who happened to make it to 450 home runs faster than anyone in the history of the game. I mean, I think the guy is a mediocre defensive third-baseman (has been for years, the past few weeks are just a blip on the graph), but if you think any other aspect of his game is mediocre, you're pretty much out of your mind. (He might still be overpaid, but that is a different question.)

posted by tieguy at 01:51 PM on July 24, 2006

justgary, the Pedro reference might not be totally appropriate but I was using it to demonstrate that the fans can get into someone's head. posted by fenriq Oh, I don't disagree, especially in the case of arod, who at least seems to be pretty fragile mentally. I'm just saying that in cases of extreme talent, such as arod or pedro, the effect of booing and chanting is going to be minimal. They're going to break out of the slump, unless there's something very wrong mentally or physically. It probably has to do with the uniform he is currently wearing. I can see beyond the uniform. I'd welcome him to the red sox. But he'd never be a player I really cared about, or would pay to see. And it has nothing to do with the fact that he has not "bashed his teammates, the fans, the media or tried to make excuses." The same could be said for Mike Lowell, and like yerfatma I find him infinitely more interesting.

posted by justgary at 01:54 PM on July 24, 2006

tieguy , I didnt say A-Rod was an average player, I was talking about Jeter. I think A-Rod is a hell of a player. If he came to the Cubs he could go back to his natural position of SS.

posted by Cubfan276 at 01:58 PM on July 24, 2006

cubfan: my apology. You're totally, 100%, completely right about Jeter.

posted by tieguy at 02:39 PM on July 24, 2006

As for the people (fans?) that boo him, they're the ones looking to boo anything and everything. With them it all boils down to his money/contract. He has talent, they don't, and they can't deal with their lives because of it. Frustrated non-athletes is what they're called. Or maybe they just see arod turn a routine play (three times) into an error and boo. I mean come on, people who boo can't deal with their own lives? Nonsense. All this while being captain of the craziest team in the wildest city. The city maybe wild, but craziest team? In fact, it's the exact opposite. The current yankees are held up as ultimate professionals. Arod, Jeter, Rivera, Matsui, damon cut his hair...crazy? The Cubs have money, too, play in a huge market, but can't quite seem to figure the game out. Having money and spending money are two different things. 1 New York Yankees $194,663,079 2 Boston Red Sox $120,099,824 7 Chicago Cubs $94,424,499

posted by justgary at 02:57 PM on July 24, 2006

it's all about the paycheque. People hate, HATE for some reason a guy making $25 million, but LOVE a guy making $18 million If that's all it was, then they should love A-Rod. Yankees are only paying him about $15-16 million per year; Texas Rangers have to pay the rest ($9-10 million per year) in order to get rid of him.

posted by graymatters at 03:06 PM on July 24, 2006

He's not allowed to do that -- there is an "intentionally dropped fly ball" rule that applies if, in the umps judgement, an infielder allowed an easy fly ball to fall for his benefit. Somewhat related -- I've always wondered whether a good outfielder with excellent hand-eye coordination could purposefully bobble a deep, soft fly ball with a runner on third and catch the runner leaving early (on the anticipated time of the catch) and get him out at third for not tagging up. I suppose this is highly unlikely for a few reasons, not least of which are that the risk of dropping the ball is too great for any outfielder to be ballsy enough to try it and the fact that the runner might have time to get back to the bag if the third base coach is alert to what is going on (although it could still potentially keep the run from scoring). (Hell, maybe third base coaches are trained to really watch the ball into the glove and this is all moot unless one is napping.) But it would be interesting and may work with the frequency of the hidden ball trick, which, incidentally, I believe Mike Lowell is the last major leaguer to pull off successfully (the last two, IIRC).

posted by holden at 04:56 PM on July 24, 2006

Thanks tron7. I suppose that's why I've never seen the play.

posted by holden at 06:34 PM on July 24, 2006

transformation into Chuck Knoblauch Go wash your mouth out with soap.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 10:40 PM on July 24, 2006

Would people be saying all of this crap about A-Rod if they didn't expect him to be perfect? I think not! When was the last time any one who posted comments here was perfect? Trade A-rod? You have to be kidding!

posted by ayankeefan at 11:35 PM on July 24, 2006

You just sounded so much like Ozzy Guillen Crazy, but thats how it goes Millions of writers spitting out prose Maybe its not too late To get in a soundbite 'Bout the guys that I hate Mariotti's got "feelings" Selig is the same I'm running off at the mouth 'bout this crazy game Nomar's no beaner And A-Rod's a poof I've had it with Garner And his ballpark's damn roof I won the Series 'cause I sold my soul This city has lost it now I'm in control Yeah, Dusty is my bitch now Barrett is so lame I'm running off at the mouth 'bout this crazy game I know that people are misquoting me You can't just listen to my words Yeh-h (Dude, this is the best part... he bites off the head of a pitcher... RAWK) I ended the Cold War. I swallowed my gum. Composing an opera. I'm secretly grum. Crazy? Step into my lair. I'm living with Elvis and Smokey the Bear. Therapy's not working And there's Tigers to tame I'm running off at the mouth 'bout this crazy game (No repeat. Fade.)

posted by BullpenPro at 01:34 AM on July 25, 2006

That was beautiful, BPP.

posted by bperk at 09:40 AM on July 25, 2006

Pretty much a knee jerk reaction to temporary difficulties, I agree.

posted by mjkredliner at 11:20 AM on July 26, 2006