Eckstein Plays Hero as Cardinals Lead 3-1: There goes my prediction of the Tigers in 6.
posted by commander cody to baseball at 12:07 AM - 42 comments
Again Tiger relief pitchers are great at pitching, but don't seem to have the basics of fielding and throwing down worth a damn.
posted by commander cody at 12:08 AM on October 27
David Eckstein: 4 hits, 3 for doubles and a GWRBI tonight! Detroit Tigers: 6 Errors (so far) for the series, 4 by pitchers.
posted by boxscore jr. at 01:19 AM on October 27
There goes my prediction of the Tigers in 6. Could be worse; I predicted Detroit in five.
posted by swerve at 01:55 AM on October 27
I love watching Eckstein play. I see Leyland is gonna start Verlander instead of Rogers tonite. Let the second guessing begin. I understand his reasons, but I would still start the vet with the hot hand in an elimination game.
posted by mjkredliner at 05:22 AM on October 27
I understand that a big part of the wins has been the multiple errors on the part of the Tigers, but the bottom line is that the Cards have taken advantage of these mistakes to capitalize and score runs, which is a key element on any playing field in sports. It is what makes a team winners.
posted by fabricman2006 at 05:47 AM on October 27
Cards have just out played the Tigers so far this series. Both teams have had better than adequate pitching. Outstanding at times on both teams. The defenses have made most of the differences. BUT the cards had a 3-1 advantage against Detroit in '68 and blew it and also against K.C. in '94. As they say "it's not over 'til the Fat Lady sings" I'm from St. louis,but, I predicted Tigers in 6.
posted by skeet0311 at 06:38 AM on October 27
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 06:43 AM on October 27
I personally insured a Cards victory---- I betted on Detroit and with my luck---that insures a victory for the other team. Pride vs Profit.
posted by skeet0311 at 06:45 AM on October 27
Well, I'm impressed. I didn't think the Cards had a prayer. I thought that team was inferior in a way I couldn't remember seeing before in a World Series (at least the Marlins chucked acknowledged great pitching at the Yankees in 2003). But, the Tiggers have wilted under the pressure and the Cards have played way better ball. However, that 4th win is the hardest they say - and I want to see how a Tiger team with their backs against the wall responds. And I want to see how it is possible that Jeff Weaver can actually pitch to a World Series win. Frankly - that's just fucked.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 07:44 AM on October 27
Mickey Lolich, where are you?!
posted by NoMich at 08:09 AM on October 27
the Tiggers have wilted under the pressure and the Cards have played way better ball. Detroit played sloppy. The Cards played like they're hungry....no, starved. With Verlander vs. Weaver tonight, anybody think the Series even goes back to the Motor City over the weekend?
posted by NerfballPro at 08:16 AM on October 27
With Verlander vs. Weaver tonight, anybody think the Series even goes back to the Motor City over the weekend? Who knows? If playoff Verlander shows up, probably not the way the Tigers have been batting and fielding. If rookie of the year Verlander shows up, they should have a good chance.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 08:48 AM on October 27
I personally insured a Cards victory Is that State Farm or All State? Tigers in 7.
posted by gradys_kitchen at 09:08 AM on October 27
I still say start Rogers, and try to get back to Detroit, then take your chances with Verlander at home. You cannot disount the Redbirds 22-34 record vs. lefties this year, Rogers befuddled the Cards last outing, and I think he may do it again.
posted by mjkredliner at 09:17 AM on October 27
Tigers in 8, anybody?
posted by qbert72 at 09:43 AM on October 27
The series for the Tigers can be reduced to two words, Brandon Inge. You would be better off with a fence post playing third base. He doesn't know how to play the position and seems to make at least one error every chance he gets (physical or mental or just plain fundamental). When the Tigers lose this series Inge will be in the thick of it. Brandon, your no Joe Crede!
posted by americanleague at 09:44 AM on October 27
Leyland has not pitched Rogers except at home this postseason. I don't think Leyland trusts him outside the friendly confines of Tiger Stadium.
posted by apoch at 09:49 AM on October 27
The series for the Tigers can be reduced to two words, Brandon Inge. You would be better off with a fence post playing third base. He doesn't know how to play the position and seems to make at least one error every chance he gets (physical or mental or just plain fundamental). When the Tigers lose this series Inge will be in the thick of it. Brandon, your no Joe Crede! While Inge may have made more errors this season than most other 3B (second in the AL to A-Rod), he also saved a whole bunch of runs by getting to balls that other 3B would not -- he was first in the AL in range factor and zone rating -- making him a well-above average defensive 3B (and arguably better than Crede). As far I can recall, Inge only has made one truly boneheaded play this series -- the wide throw home that allowed two runs to score in Game 1, followed by the interference with Rolen (who likely would have been safe at the plate anyway if not obstructed) rounding third. And while the Tigers may have played differently with a smaller deficit, those runs were not the difference in the game. On the play last night where Eckstein beat out an infield single, Inge's throw was offline, but the throw would not have beaten Eckstein even if it was online.
posted by holden at 10:22 AM on October 27
He doesn't know how to play the position and seems to make at least one error every chance he gets (physical or mental or just plain fundamental). When the Tigers lose this series Inge will be in the thick of it. And I suppose the Tigers would be better off with a fence post that can throw 103 mph pitching in relief right?
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 10:37 AM on October 27
I see Leyland is gonna start Verlander instead of Rogers tonite. Let the second guessing begin. I like Verlander against Weaver for game 5 and then Rogers against Carpenter for game 6. They will both have to pitch if Detroit is going to win this thing so you might as well go strength vs strength. I understand his reasons, but I would still start the vet with the hot hand(rogers) in an elimination game. There's a joke in there somewhere but I can't find it.
posted by tron7 at 10:42 AM on October 27
I understand that a big part of the wins has been the multiple errors on the part of the Tigers, but the bottom line is that the Cards have taken advantage of these mistakes to capitalize and score runs That's for sure. Not only have the Tigers made 6 errors -- including one by a pitcher in each game -- but every one of them has generated runs for the Cardinals in one way or another. They look every bit the young team that they are. The Tigers have way more pure talent, but they seem to have lost all their post-season poise. I was actually very impressed with Rodney last night. He came on with two on and one out and against very good contact hitters he got two big strike outs . Then, after that terrible error, he didn't seem to lose his composure and struck out the next two batters he faced (after the IBB to Pujols, of course). I felt bad for Rodney when Wilson got the single -- he was pretty gutsy, and unfortunately all people are going to remember is that error. Ease up on Inge. He is a very good young player who just looks a little lost at times in the hot spotlight on the field. He's been swinging a good bat with five hits spread out over the last three games. And, generally speaking, defensively he is solid. He's probably a bit behind Crede overall, but not far. I really don't see how you can pin the whole series on him. Given that his error came in a game that was otherwise a blowout, I put him far down the goat list. Certainly below Zumaya and Polanco (my two favorite players on the club, too). ON EDIT: What Holden said. mjk: every game from here on out is an elimination game for the Tigers. I think you have to give all your pitchers the best opportunity to win their games, and that means using them on regular rest. As a manager, I would much rather go down with Verlander on regular rest in Game 5 than Rogers on short rest and open up Pandora's Box of Second Guesses.
posted by BullpenPro at 10:59 AM on October 27
As a manager, I would much rather go down with Verlander on regular rest in Game 5 than Rogers on short rest and open up Pandora's Box of Second Guesses. BPP -- because of the rainout Wed., Rogers (who last pitched Sun.) is on regular (four days) rest today.
posted by holden at 11:30 AM on October 27
It was my understanding there would be no math involved in this debate. Leyland set his rotation for this outcome -- I think it sends a bad signal to your young pitchers to change in mid-stream. How's that?
posted by BullpenPro at 11:40 AM on October 27
Leyland should go with Rogers in this do or die situation. He by far has been the best pitcher in this series. If they lose there will be always second guessing no matter what. But what about little Eckstein? I don't know his weight or height, but he looks small on TV. He delivered the goods in game 4. For a little guy who has to choke up on the bat, he's a ball player who gives it 110% every game he plays.
posted by Ghastly1 at 12:45 PM on October 27
Did anyone else wonder why Curtis Granderson, by all accounts a pretty good center fielder, took off running and watching Eckstein's fly ball at the same time? I've always taught and been taught that on a fly ball, as an outfielder you run to the spot where you think the ball is going to come down, and as you near that spot, you then turn and relocate the ball. The principal to me is the same as not running with your arms out in front of you for a long bomb in football -- better speed and surer footing. Or am I nuts?
posted by wfrazerjr at 01:07 PM on October 27
Or am I nuts? I've seen it taught this way although I was brought up to chase the fly as if I were a receiver on a deep route looking over my shoulder. Of course none of this would have helped the condition of the field. By looking at the size of the divot created by the slip, we are lucky that Granderson still has a functioning ankle/lower leg. This all could have ended very Theisman-like.
posted by gradys_kitchen at 01:18 PM on October 27
I agree that Leyland should stick with his guns and pitch Verlander tonight and Rogers tomorrow, if necessary. What makes me laugh in all of this is that Rogers, the alleged veteran leader of the staff, is too mentally weak to pitch outside of Detroit. Leyland was basically saying that he doesn't think Rogers has a chance to pitch well away from Comerica. How can this starter be your best, if he has to pitch at home? I mean sure, pitchers normally perform better at home, due to a multitude of factors (sleeping in their own bed, more consistent routine, mound/ballpark familiarity), but how can the Tigers consider Rogers their "Ace" if they don't think he can get the job done in St. Louis?
posted by edub1321 at 01:32 PM on October 27
Leyland should go with Rogers in this do or die situation. He by far has been the best pitcher in this series. If they lose there will be always second guessing no matter what. Even if they win it is still a do or die situation. It has been clear that Rogers has thrived off of the crowd in home games, thus making sense that he pitch at home. Also, I would rather see Rogers on the mound against Carpenter than Verlander, especially since Verlander has pitched much worse than his record these playoffs. What makes me laugh in all of this is that Rogers, the alleged veteran leader of the staff, is too mentally weak to pitch outside of Detroit. Explain why him only pitching at home makes him mentally weak. Playing to a stregnth does not mean that there is a weakness being avoided.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 01:35 PM on October 27
Playing to a stregnth does not mean that there is a weakness being avoided. Yes, it does. Playing to a strength means you have something not as strong, thus... a weakness. If you are favoring your strength, you're avoiding your weakness.
posted by jerseygirl at 01:44 PM on October 27
Yes, it does. Playing to a strength means you have something not as strong, thus... a weakness. If you are favoring your strength, you're avoiding your weakness. If a team is solid at all posistions except say DH where they have an amazing player, would that mean that all other posistions are weaknesses?
posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 02:04 PM on October 27
Yes, it does. Playing to a strength means you have something not as strong I would have thought strength/weakness is relative to your opponent. 'Playing to a strength' means using an advantage that your opponent doesn't possess or may have difficulty countering. It's not a straight-out admission of a weakness somewhere else.
posted by owlhouse at 02:37 PM on October 27
No offense intended to the Cards fans here, but the Tigers are beating themselves, just like in the 2nd half of the season. Still even if the world championship is not to be theirs this year, they have built a potential dynasty team that, if they can keep them together, could take them back for years to come. Perhaps they'll be like the RedWings, with a solid core and veteran players who've never been to the series wanting to come here for their shot. Considering their owner it's worked before. Now if we can just get Mike to buy the Lions!
posted by commander cody at 02:57 PM on October 27
David Eckstein is the perfect example of how heart and determination can overcome an apparent lack of physical gifts.I get so tired of hearing:he's too small,his arm is weak.you don't have to be tall to hit a baseball.every ball I've seen him get to,he throws the guy out.when are people going to stop with the nonsense?the only size that really matters,is the size of your heart.give me a little guy that can play over a big one that can't anyday.how may "can't miss prospects" wish they were in Eckstein's shoes right now?on the verge of being a vital part on a second World Series winner.
posted by mars1 at 03:26 PM on October 27
I get so tired of hearing that. If you're happy with a 600 OPS, don't let me rain on your parade.
posted by yerfatma at 03:36 PM on October 27
You forgot to mention that he gives 110%!
posted by Venicemenace at 03:39 PM on October 27
If you're happy with a 600 OPS For what its worth: .710 careeer OPS/ .868 so far this WS
posted by Bury Bonds at 03:57 PM on October 27
how may "can't miss prospects" wish they were in Eckstein's shoes right now? Probably not too many, as they aren't as tiny as Mr. Scrappy and those shoes would be putting their normal-sized feet in a lot of pain. on the verge of being a vital part on a second World Series winner. One more, and he'll almost be as good as Luis Sojo!
posted by grum@work at 04:09 PM on October 27
Ok, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you all are wrong. This series has just begun and the Tigers WILL win. Inge..er!..the fence post will come up with some big plays, including a game winner( a walk off homer perhaps) and the pitchers will field balls and make outs at the right base. There is method to Leylands madness and I beleive these guys will come back. I like their chances at home when they win tonight..so cardinal fan..it's over for you. Schedule a parade down Main St. for the Rams or the Blues cuz this year it's going down Woodward past the Park. Go get 'em Tigers!
posted by sydney2006 at 04:21 PM on October 27
Just for the record, Joe Crede is a year younger than the kid Brandon Inge. Inge has played in 736 games vs. 654 for Crede. I'm not trying to pick on Inge, just pointing out that he is a converted catcher and it seems to be showing.
posted by americanleague at 04:37 PM on October 27
I get so tired of hearing:he's too small,his arm is weak. Does anybody still say that? The only time I ever hear this is when people are refuting it. As a leadoff hitter, OBP carries a little more weight that SLG. He had a .350 OBP this year. Better than average overall, but a little below average for a leadoff hitter, particularly for one who doesn't really steal too many bases or display any power at all. You can draw a lot of comparisons between Eckstein and Phil Rizzuto. They're guys whose numbers belie how much fun they really are to watch.
posted by BullpenPro at 05:22 PM on October 27
Brandon Inge, you are the weakest link, good by!
posted by americanleague at 11:32 PM on October 27
Explain why him only pitching at home makes him mentally weak. Playing to a stregnth does not mean that there is a weakness being avoided. Leyland didn't say 'I'm pitching him at home because he thrives off the crowd'. He said something along the lines of 'I will not pitch him in that atmosphere'. So yes, mentally weak.
posted by justgary at 02:02 AM on October 28
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