Good post gronir_ hitrops. I was having a conversation with a friend about AI just the other day. I'd have to give the nod to Thomas as well because of the rings, although I would say AI is the toughest. He has really become a pleasure to watch, and who knows? He could play 7 or 8 more years and overtake Thomas. However, Webber is a loser and the 76er's are doomed with him as their two-man.
The only issue i have with measuring a great player by the amount of rings they have is, noticing the bench sitters next to them with the same ring. If this thread was about the greatest centers ever, Bill Laimber wouldn't be mentioned at all ring total-2. Alonzo mourning would be in the top 15-20 with ring total-0. If it was about power forwards, Barkley and K.G. would be in the top 10. ring total-0. Robert Horry wouldn't crack the top 30. ring total-ridiculous. Isaiah Thomas had great coaching, and a great supporting cast around him. Okay, maybe not the greatest, but they were good with a deep bench. A.I went to the finals with Theo Ratliff at center, Eric Snow at pointgaurd, Tyrone Hill at power forward, and George Lynch at small forward. I'll agree A. Mckey was 6th man of the year off the bench, but besides that, the others off the bench were Raja Bell, Rodney Buford, Jumaine Jones and Todd McCoullah. Whooooooo? That said, Isiah Thomas - 6'1" Nate Archibald - 6'1" John Stockton - 6'1" Chucky Atkins - 5'11" Jim Les - 5'11" Michael Adams - 5'10" Spud Webb - 5'6" Earl Boykins - 5'5" Muggsy Bogues - 5'3" Steve Nash, Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, Stephon Marburry, instead of AI on that team and they're out the first round if they even make the playoffs. Winning rings doesn't measure your greatness, John Sally, Kurt Rambus, Bobby Jones, Mark Ivoroni, Greg Kite, Robert Horry all Good players. But great? AI, Barkley, Garnett, Nowitzski, these are great players. AI is listed at 6'0 or 6'1, hes actually 5'11 1/2. Barkley was listed at 6'6, he was 6'4 1/2.
The thing about giving someone - anyone - the monicker of "greatest" usually brings on some baaaaad Karma. A.I. is truly an acceptional athlete. Hope he doesn't end up an also-ran like Stockton did after giving all he had for the game. Here's a question: What one or two players would A.I. need on his team to win the hardware? Sorry, 'nother thread, 'nother time.
I'll come clean. I'm listed at 6'9", but I'm actually 4'10". Yeah, I know. I couldn't dunk on Estelle Getty.
as an old ABA fan, i think you all are failing to mention someone. granted, he was not in iversons class as a scorer ( but shooting percentage comparism, yes, they match up well), but he is the alltime assists leader in the ABA, and, AI could not learn the concept of assist under his tutelage. I am referring , of course, to Larry Brown. a pretty decent "little man".
From the list I would go with 1)Thomas 2)Archibald 3)Stockton.....but all that said I never saw any of them do THIS!!! ahhh memories of my childhood!!!
I think Thomas was the greatest pure point guard that I ever saw play. He was tough and rose to the occasion to win two titles. Its just that I never liked him or his team. The night he kissed Magic Johnson before the game really challenged me, not interms of gender kissing, but in terms of rivalries. Then there was also the time he took his ball and went home early, when Jordan's Bulls final beat the Pistons in the playoffs.WAAAAAAA!
You need to have someone that can make shots to get an assist, its not a one sided ordeal people. Isiah and Stockton had a LOT of help, AI almost has none. I've never seen any 6 footer score on an entire team in a half court set night in and night out. Boykins? C'mon atleast stick to allstars. Nobody wants to grow up and have game like Stockton. Matter of fact I dont want to hear Stockton's name referenced as the greatest ever again. Hell I could feed the Mailman for 10 assists a game off a pick and roll. The Answer, enough said.
Iverson is for sure a top 5 guy 6'1" and under. Top 20 out of any pllayer any height. He almost single handedly carried the sixers for 10 years! I don't know how many times they've made the playoffs in those years on his back. That championship year he did have SOME help(Kukoc, Mutombu, Mckie) but still they rode his back to finals. Have him and Kobe switch places for there careers and Shaq and AI would still be winning rings. Its a shame the Sixers can never seem to put a decent team around him...
Let us not forget in this discussion that AI was the starting shooting guard and co-captain on the 2004 olympic team that was nothing short of a disgrace. We were bested by Argentina and Italy at our own game. Great leadership skills. To be the best you have to beat the best. Plus, you have to show the leadership and interpersonal skills to be respected by the best. Iverson, NONE of those. Sorry Allen, get another tatoo and you'll feel better.
Spud Webb was the greatest little man ever! Do you ever see that guy dunk?!
Ah, I was hoping Spud would finally get some love. I mean, maybe not THE greatest stats, but they were decent. I find it incredibly impressive that the man was 5'7", he competed for 12 years in a league of 6 foot+ giants, and he won a freakin' DUNK CONTEST! Against Dominique Wilkins!!! Talk about athleticism. And anyway, how cool is that picture?!? He looks like a Hobbit - like they scaled the set & props up so the regular-sized guy would appear smaller. He also looks like he's standing on a 4 foot high platform that's been doctored out of the photo.
you are not old enough to call A.I. the best ever. Of his generation thats another story. My Dad would say Bob Cousy,I would say Tiny, My son would say A.I. Know who's right? Whoever's picking up the tab.
Rings don't make the player, but they put him over the top in this particular arguement. If you're part of a winning team AND have the stats then you have a leg up on the guy with stats alone.
Chico, Estelle Getty? That is funny!
To be the best you have to beat the best. Plus, you have to show the leadership and interpersonal skills to be respected by the best. Iverson, NONE of those. Sorry Allen, get another tatoo and you'll feel better. posted by mcstan13 at 8:50 AM CST on January 12 "Allen Iverson,The best player in the league". -Shaq Allen Iverson not respected by the best? Who would be more qualified to comment on the best, Shaq?, or the guy who thinks tatoo's make you feel better?
Allen Iverson = Shortest guy ever drafted #1 Allen Iverson = Shortest guy to win a scoring title x 4 Allen Iverson = shortest MVP in 30+ years Allen Iverson = the guy the storylink is about!
Let us not forget in this discussion that AI was the starting shooting guard and co-captain on the 2004 olympic team that was nothing short of a disgrace. We were bested by Argentina and Italy at our own game. Great leadership skills. Yeah well at leat he had the balls to show up and give it a shot! Paging Shaq..Shaq hello..Kobe...Kevin,.. Tracy, Vince anybody?... where are you guys?.. come on this ain't funny anymore!..Hellooo, U..S..A...U..S...A, oh never mind!
^^^good point!
Iverson lead the team in ppg average 13.8, was second in assts 2.4 pg. Here are his stats for every game and a link to the page that shows each players stats. G Tm Min R A Pts 1 PUR 31 4 3 15 2 GRE 29 3 1 17 3 AUS 23 0 2 16 4 LTU 26 0 2 11 5 ANG 13 1 2 10 6 ESP 32 2 4 16 7 ARG 31 2 3 10 8 LTU 31 1 3 15 AVG 27.0 1.6 2.5 13.8 Statistics: U.S. Senior National Team He was also the smallest guy on the team listed at 6'0.
Paging Shaq..Shaq hello..Kobe...Kevin,.. Tracy, Vince anybody?... where are you guys?.. come on this ain't funny anymore!..Hellooo, U..S..A...U..S...A, oh never mind Good point. More olympic info about that year. Iverson and Duncan were the only 2 original members of the team. List of players that withdrew. J.Kidd-knee surgery R.Allen-got married T.Mcgrady-"security concerns" K.Malone-Mother passed away J.O'neal-"banged up from playoffs" M.Bibby-no reason listed List of players who declined invites. V.Carter, K.Martin, E.Brand, S.O'neil, K.Garnett, R.Hamilton, B.Wallace. I think its needless to say, but things would have been different had the original team showed up. Iversons stat line the day this thread was posted; Utah 110 Sixers 102 Iverson: 44mins 16-25 for 46 Points 9 assts 4stls 3rebs 2 To's. He lead either team in points and assts. Had fewer turnovers than any player who played atleast 35 minutes and of course, was the smallest player on either team.
List of players that withdrew R.Allen-got married You must prioritize your life. If she really loves you she can wait. Does she know your rich? T.Mcgrady-"security concerns" Terrorist- 1 Mcgrady- 0
R.Allen-got married He should have taken his wife to Greece with him, I'm sure she would have enjoyed the Olympics, and going to a nice foreign country.
AI is not at all my favorite player, especially not of all-time. It's hard to really decide who was the best, since the top few came from all different time periods. I do know one thing. If every player was the same height... AI would be the best player on the court, by far, every night. And the number of titles would be more than 0. And Shaq wouldn't be very good.
