Yankees stay alive: with 3-2 victory over angels.
posted by justgary to baseball at 10:37 PM - 72 comments
I hope that the Angels pull it out. The White Sox v Angels would make a nice champioship series!
posted by daddisamm at 12:27 AM on October 10
these late nights are killing me, but it's worth it. some photos from tonight.
posted by goddam at 01:35 AM on October 10
Nah, I want the Yankees to go on. Chicago/Anaheim would make for a snorefest.
posted by charlatan at 03:36 AM on October 10
Gotta pull for the White Sox now that the Red Sox are out...then, maybe NEXT year....Chicago Cubs? HAHAHHHAHAHA - sorry - I will stick to SERIOUS discussion....
posted by sinisterfoot at 06:17 AM on October 10
Yanks better hope they score early and often in game 5. Rivera may not be as effective after pitching 2 innings in game 4.
posted by Bill Lumbergh at 06:46 AM on October 10
Chicago/Anaheim would make for a snorefest. Amen. Except for Vlad nobody on the Los Angeles/Anaheim Angels of Orange County California can even keep my interest. Figgins is a player, too. Most people, though, can't see past their dislike for the Yankees enough to admit that practically every post season series they play turns out to be memorable and exciting.
posted by dyams at 07:11 AM on October 10
Memorable and exciting are only good for a while before they become usual and boring, I suppose.
posted by jerseygirl at 07:14 AM on October 10
Yes - I dislike the Yankees (I am from Boston, it is the LAW), but - I would just rather see the White Sox pull one out this year...the Yankees have won enough WS, and mostly - it was due to them being able to BUY the best players...to me, they (and the Red Sox for that matter) need to look at how THEIR payroll effects how other teams can (or CAN'T) compete with them....and I think Chicago needs a break after having their Cubs come so close, to be spoiled by some dingbat grabbing a foul ball...
posted by sinisterfoot at 07:30 AM on October 10
You know, I'm sure that this will deepen the developing pouts out there, but a championship is not some kind of consolation prize to be awarded to the team whose fans throw the biggest pity party, or to the city whose teams have blown the most number of playoffs.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:49 AM on October 10
a championship is not some kind of consolation prize to be awarded to the team whose fans throw the biggest pity party, Why not? Worked for the Red Sox.
posted by Bill Lumbergh at 08:06 AM on October 10
posted by sinisterfoot at 08:13 AM on October 10
BUY THE BEST PLAYERS!!!!!!! the same sniviling excuses just admit the Yankees are a better team regardless i just hope they live up to that determination when they take on the Angles in the fifth game tonight those guys are TOUGH!!!!!!
posted by FrankySP at 08:15 AM on October 10
the Yankees have won enough WS, and mostly - it was due to them being able to BUY the best players...to me, they (and the Red Sox for that matter) need to look at how THEIR payroll effects how other teams can (or CAN'T) compete with them It gets tiring to here people complain over Yankees buying Championships. This orginization has been the single most successful in history, way before King George came on the scene, way before free agency and it wasn't from buying players. Yes they have had the highest payroll year after year now but that hasn't guaranteed wins, just check this years standings . It wasn't till the next to last game that they even made the playoffs. Secondly, there's no written rule that only the Yankees can buy players. Any team can and if the can't "afford it" because of being a small market , then why don't they bring in another part owner and add more spending money to the team. Steinbrenner only owns a majority of the team but isn't sole owner... why don't others follow this example?
posted by evil empire at 08:20 AM on October 10
but - it shouldn't be about who can spend the most either....just my humble opinion, but I think baseball NEEDS a salary cap system that WORKS - so a small market team can develope their young guys, and still be able to grab a free agent here and there to help out....if things continue status quo - it will only be the richest teams at the end of the year...
posted by sinisterfoot at 08:20 AM on October 10
It doesn't matter how you cap it, money will always find a way to influence league results. All that happens is the money goes somewhere besides player salalries, which is why plenty of owners wouldn't mind a cap. At least King George spends the dough on players. Bitch about the teams that were spending less on salaries then they were getting in revenue sharing up until last year.
posted by yerfatma at 08:25 AM on October 10
And another thing, when Yankees win a Championship you always hear how the bought it. It sounds like the broke a rule or something. Last I knew it wasn't against the rules to pay players what they want to. Sometimes they go way overboard and pay a player way too much and he under performs, but who was hurt more, the Yankees or baseball? Usually it's the GM that takes the heat for that. But if Yanks win this year it'll be from good moves such as bringing up Cano to replace the awful Womack , and trading for Chacon and finding Small.
posted by evil empire at 08:38 AM on October 10
Might not be the place to bring it up, but can any of the Yankees fans here say what they think the pitching staff is going to look like next year? It's great for the Yanks that when their high-priced guys went down, they were able to get good years out of Chacon, Small and Wang, but what about next year, when it seems as if there will be too many guys competing for five spots?
posted by ajaffe at 09:11 AM on October 10
Johnson, Mussina, Chacon, Wang and Small.
posted by evil empire at 09:29 AM on October 10
I think they will keep Wright but he will be injured half the year , keep Small as long relief and take Wright's spot . Brown won't be back . I actually saw where they will dump Brown and Bernie Williams to free up serious payroll and go after Johnny Damon.
posted by evil empire at 09:35 AM on October 10
"they go way overboard and pay a player way too much and he under performs, but who was hurt more, the Yankees or baseball? " How does this NOT hurt baseball overall? They are inflating salaries for EACH instance that they overpay someone....it is a chain reaction - pay a pitcher with 20 wins last year TWICE what he is worth, and the next 20 game winner asks for THAT, plus a few....and so on and so on and so on....I truly don't mean to offend, and perhaps I just don't know enough on the subject, but seems like Steinbrenner has created a spending MONSTER, and for a team to compete, they have to do the same....
posted by sinisterfoot at 09:38 AM on October 10
I don't see Johnny Damon picking NYY.
posted by jerseygirl at 09:43 AM on October 10
evil, they're not really dumping Brown and Bernie. they're free agents after the season so their salaries are coming off the books anyway. there's still a chance that they will resign Bernie, if he's willing to take a reduced roll and salary. and that would be fine with me. i'm sure the Yankees will offer something to Damon, but i don't see him coming here. what i'd like to see is for them to make a run at Torii Hunter. don't know what kind of package they would have to come up with to get him though.
posted by goddam at 09:51 AM on October 10
I don't see Johnny Damon picking NYY. Me either , but I didn't think Randy Johnson or A-Rod ever would accept a trade to Yanks either.
posted by evil empire at 09:53 AM on October 10
Wah wah wah...the Yankee's pay more than anyone else...they Yankee's are better than my team...same sob story every year. If you want to be upset at the situation then go bitch about Selig and Fehr. If you don't like the way the Yankee's operate then get over it...they aren't cheating. I'll agree that the rules need to be changed...but it isn't the Yankee's (or Red Sox or Dodgers or any other teams) fault. They aren't doing anything except trying to win. If there are any Royals fans here don't cry about the Yankee's ruining the curve...cry because the family that owns your team (one of the richest in the WORLD) doesn't care about winning, they don't try. Oh...and let's be clear...spending money won't win championships on it's own. See the Yankee's of the 80's for reference. LET'S GO YANKEES!
posted by stofer71 at 09:59 AM on October 10
evil, they're not really dumping Brown and Bernie. they're free agents after the season so their salaries are coming off the books anyway. Yes I stated that wrong , but I meant the are cutting the cord of those two and moving onward. And a huge chunk of the enormous payroll will be freed up.
posted by evil empire at 10:04 AM on October 10
Simply overpaying guys doesn't gaurantee success...look at the NY Rangers of the past 10 years...
posted by MeatSaber at 10:11 AM on October 10
true, evil. but they have to resign Matsui, who's also a free agent (as is Gordon, but it's doubtful they will take him back). jeebus, what am i doing? can't think about next year yet.
posted by goddam at 10:12 AM on October 10
I don't see Johnny Damon picking NYY. Me either , but I didn't think Randy Johnson or A-Rod ever would accept a trade to Yanks either. Really? It didn't super surprise me that either of them ended up there. When you think about it, ARod wanted a chance to win. So did Johnson. They wanted on teams that were going to go somewhere, as Texas and Arizona were treading water for the most part. Damon's got a "rock star" thing going on with the beard and the hair and the reputation with the naked pull-ups and all that. Plus his wife has a gig with NESN as some lame-o fashion correspondant. Not that those two preclude him making a deal with the Yankees, but if Damon shaves off his goatee, cuts his hair and has to be clean-cut, he loses some of the cache that's made him marketable right now. And face it, the marketing aspect of him is taking him places, making him money and getting him known.
posted by jerseygirl at 10:17 AM on October 10
Gee, I didn't realize there were so many George Steinbrenner fans out there. The Yankees total revenue in 2003 (according to Forbes) was $238 million. $187 million of that went into players salaries. I never knew that so many people would like George to keep most of it and pay his players diddly. I realize that George is no where near as rich as Carl Pohlad (Twins), David Glass (Royals), Arturo Moreno (Angels), Carl Linder (Reds), Robert McLane (Astros), and a few others - but his heart (and business sense) is in the right place.
posted by drevl at 10:18 AM on October 10
true, evil. but they have to resign Matsui, who's also a free agent (as is Gordon, but it's doubtful they will take him back). jeebus, what am i doing? can't think about next year yet. Looking at the list of their free agents, I'd think the can dump a lot of payroll. They gotta sign Matsui, but I don't think that'll be too hard seeing how it was the Yanks he came here to play for. Gotta bring back Flaherty and likely Gordon but he will need to take a pay cut. * Kevin Brown, RHP * John Flaherty, C * Tom Gordon * Tino Martinez, 1B * Felix Rodriguez, RHP * Rey Sanchez, 2B * Ruben Sierra, OF * Bernie Williams, OF * Al Leiter, LHP * Hideki Matsui, OF * Alan Embree, LHP
posted by evil empire at 10:42 AM on October 10
"Simply overpaying guys doesn't gaurantee success...look at the NY Rangers of the past 10 years..." True - and look where hockey ended up..... I DO agree with MOST of what everyone says about the Yankees - even though I am a Sox fan...but I DO feel that they are creating a competition problem for small market teams...if a small market team is lucky enough to get a young guy who performes well, he is gone as soon as he hits free agent status - then subsequently overpaid by the teams (not JUST Yankees...) who are in the running for playoffs....I just think it is time for some effective revenue sharing in baseball....like football, it should be a competition, not a spending spree....and everyone should have the same amounts to spend on their team (whether or not the owners WILL actually spend it is their OWN choice) it will show the fans who is SERIOUS about winning, and who just wants to be profitable team....
posted by sinisterfoot at 10:44 AM on October 10
With such a well thought out, sensible comment - how did you get the handle sinisterfoot?
posted by drevl at 10:58 AM on October 10
It's short for Sinister Footware - the name of my band...and THANKS!!
posted by sinisterfoot at 11:06 AM on October 10
Gotta bring back Flaherty i don't agree with that. they need to find someone that can give Jorge a break for more than one game a week. for that to happen, they need someone capable of hitting above the mendoza line. i like Flaherty, i think he's a smart catcher. he's good at pointing out mechanical problems with his pitchers. and i think he'll make a fine coach one day. but he doesn't have the bat. there's the "well, he's Randy's personal catcher" excuse, but Randy needs to suck it up and deal with whoever is behind the plate. even if Gordon took a pay cut, i don't know if i'd want him back. he's been unpredictable this year. and his propensity for spitting the bit during the playoffs doesn't sit well with me. if he's willing to take a smaller role in the bull pen, maybe. i would feel better if they could find another setup guy. felix rodriguez is an interesting case. he has good stuff, he just can't control it. do they stick with him in hopes that they can get him on the right track (which seems to be happening with Proctor) or do they look elsewhere?
posted by goddam at 11:25 AM on October 10
Is that a "Cruel Shoes" reference, Sinisterfoot?
posted by ajaffe at 11:54 AM on October 10
You mean Steve Martin right? No...it is actually from a Frank Zappa tune...we are a Frank Zappa cover band - but I did always appreciate the Martin bit as well...LMAO!!!
posted by sinisterfoot at 12:32 PM on October 10
goddam: agreed about Gordon, although I thought he was pretty steady in game 1. But it seems to me I've seen him be unsteady a lot more often. Agreed also about Flaherty. What's up with being Johnson's catcher? It's not like catching a knuckleballer; is Johnson just a princess or is he that tricky to catch? I'll give you one goofball prediction: Kevin Brown comes back. Makes no sense, right? Right. It'll happen. Then he'll kick a door or punch a locker two weeks into the season and be out for the next twelve weeks. I have a great sentimental fondness for both Tino and Bernie, and I like them both in a tight spot more than many younger flashier guys. But perhaps they both feel that they'd rather not be in such a primary role. If you get rid of Tino, okay, but for god's sake, get a fielding first baseman, it ain't all just standing there and holding your glove out. I wouldn't mind seeing the back of Ruben Sierra.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 12:32 PM on October 10
i think the catcher issue is most likely personality related. but it may be the way that Jorge and Flaherty approach their pitchers. i always took Posada to be more emotional. he'll try to get his pitchers riled up or whatever. (he would give El Duque hell during a game because he pitched better when he was pissed off.) Flaherty seems more like a pitching coach. he reminds Randy when there's something off in his mechanics. he also was the one that suggested to Johnson that he pitch off of a mound between starts. for Brown to come back they would have to give him a new contract, so yeah, that makes no sense at all:-) why would they resign a pitcher that they've had nothing but problems with when they have 6 (or 7 if you count Small) starters already? i wouldn't mind them giving Andy Phillips another shot at first. you just need someone for a late inning defensive replacement and to give Giambi a rest once in a while. (you can't DH Giami all the time. his numbers when he plays first are much better than when he's a DH.)
posted by goddam at 01:03 PM on October 10
Always good to have more Zappa/Mothers cover bands, though I'm more of a Beefheart man myself...
posted by ajaffe at 01:15 PM on October 10
I wonder if Steinbrenner would have signed Zappa...or Beefheart for that matter.....Beefheart would have a different type of slider than seen before in the Major leagues.....that much is certain!! (OK Yankees fans...lemme have it - I deserve it)
posted by sinisterfoot at 01:40 PM on October 10
I thought T. Rex had The Slider...
posted by ajaffe at 02:16 PM on October 10
posted by ajaffe at 02:17 PM on October 10
is Johnson just a princess or is he that tricky to catch? Johnson specifically requested someone other than Posada. I don't know the reason why, but the strength of Jorge's game was next to the plate, not behind it.
posted by yerfatma at 03:04 PM on October 10
As a Red Sox fan, I would hate it if the Yankees sucked. What fun would that be?
posted by Joey Michaels at 03:13 PM on October 10
but the strength of Jorge's game was next to the plate, not behind it. "was" being the operative word. his hitting declined this year, but he had a pretty good season behind the plate.
posted by goddam at 03:52 PM on October 10
At the risk of this devolving into the Hatfields and McCoys, I think Jorge's improvement behind the plate is a relative thing (as in, "Nowhere to go but up."). My snide remark was more in regards to the drop in ofeensive production.
posted by yerfatma at 04:01 PM on October 10
/SpeedyGonzalez "Offensive", obviously.
posted by yerfatma at 04:02 PM on October 10
always blows my mind how American sports fans love commie idea of salary csp.
posted by fade2244 at 04:10 PM on October 10
From what I heard , Randy Johnson didn't like the way Jorge calls a game.
posted by evil empire at 05:45 PM on October 10
Uh, yeah- fuck you very much fade. If you are so freakin' retarded you can't see why a salary cap and revenue sharing works (and has worked in other major sports with great success!) then you and your Bush-loving, cryptofascist, spending spree pals can go suck it, Pinochet-style! Ahem. In a different thread, I was defending the big money players, since why should a player turn down what someone's willing to offer? So in a way I do defend Steinbrenner for paying players so much- if he can, I can't really blame him. It is the case that the Pohlads and other owners essentially milk their teams for cash, pay their players less than they could afford to, all the while claiming direst poverty to both misdirect fans from their own miserliness, and to badger the beleaguered municipalities around the country for half-billion dollar taxpayer giveaways in the form of new stadiums. My real beef with the Yankees, as well as with the fans, is in not having humility in their good fortune. You have a larger market than all but maybe one or two other cities, but it's also home to several media titans whose close proximity ensured that Steinbrenner could continue to manufacture sweetheart media deals including eventually his own station. You're like spoiled rich kids, you act like you fucking deserve a championship every year, like God himself put you on this earth to be rewarded constantly, and that it's some kind of injustice if you aren't given your annual treat. You refuse to see how the Richie Rich spending habits of your team and that gloating sense of entitlement that you display pisses off everyone else, chalking up to envy what is really embittered class warfare. You have the caustic obliviousness of Paris Hilton, or the kids from Laguna Beach. Yankees fans are like the football captain with the rich father in every 80's teen movie, and they never seem to fully recognize, much less understand, why the whole school loathes them, their red corvette, and their pretty bimbo girlfriend. Fuck the yankees!!!
posted by hincandenza at 05:59 PM on October 10
Not a Bush lover!!!!!!!and how exactly did it "work" in other sports. NFL style mediocrity opps sorry parity did nothing but water down the the league. And a cap sure hasn't stopped dynasties from developing in hoops either . Baseball has revenue shareing it's call a luxury tax. Sorry I just happen to favor excellence rather that a league full of .500 ball clubs. Soooo actually fuck you very much.
posted by fade2244 at 06:19 PM on October 10
My real beef with the Yankees, as well as with the fans, is in not having humility in their good fortune. When you win, you don't have to be humble. Which sports does a salary cap work in? American football has a lot of other things going on that maintain parity.
posted by yerfatma at 06:22 PM on October 10
Hal! Coach Bobby! Breathe deeply! In, out! In, out! And then go and show me where there's anybody who's not an outta-the-woodwork teenage-yahoo joined-spofi-within-the-last-week Yankee fan who in any way supports your tirade. Or don't, but if you want to go down the path of hanging these monkeys on us Yankee fans, fine -- but don't be surprised if something smelly and festering ends up around your own neck. "You people" rants are idiotic by definition.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 06:25 PM on October 10
I see. So cause I'm new I couldn't possibly have a valid opinion? Also I understand that pro football's parity is directly linked to the salary cap(free agency, injuries ect.) but i most certainly plays a role.
posted by fade2244 at 06:30 PM on October 10
isn't linked my bad
posted by fade2244 at 06:31 PM on October 10
I see. So cause I'm new I couldn't possibly have a valid opinion? Read for content, fade. I'm writing about the snot-nosed knuckledraggers who've shown up here ever since the league division series started, bellowing HA HA U LOST UR TEEM SUX MY TEEM ROOLZ LOL!!1!11!!! or a close approximation thereof. If the shoe fits, by all means, wear it.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 06:45 PM on October 10
naw man I have no real interest in how rival teams do except for the impact it may have on a match up with my team.
posted by fade2244 at 06:55 PM on October 10
if Yankees win tonight i will be glad they were knocked out though. Would rather play the White Sox although with New York's lack of starting pitching even they may be to much to overcome.
posted by fade2244 at 06:56 PM on October 10
If they win tonight, they won't have been knocked out, fade. May I suggest you take a little time to proofread before you hit that Post button? the Preview button helps with that, showing you exactly what your post will look like on the screen. And perhaps you could also consider condensing some of your thoughts into a single post?
posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:07 PM on October 10
Let's go easy on the fornication, folks. Every time we delete a comment on SportsFilter George Steinbrenner earns $1.
posted by rcade at 07:23 PM on October 10
Sorry a lil outta sorts today. I ment if Yankees win tonight I will be glad Red Sox were knocked out. I know they finished above .500 against them for the season but I still don't like that matchup. With the way chisox are playin it might not matter, and that assumes that they get past Angles tonight(big assumption i know)
posted by fade2244 at 07:32 PM on October 10
rcade: I thought every time you delete a comment on SportsFilter, God kills a kitten.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:50 PM on October 10
I thought it was "the terrorists win"
posted by jerseygirl at 07:52 PM on October 10
Can anyone think of a valid reason the NLCS can't switch a starting date with the ALCS instead of sending a tired team to play the White Sox with no rest. I can't, other then the TV guys call the shots. Selig needs to step up and do whats right for the Game!
posted by skydivedad at 09:55 PM on October 10
skydivedad: Selig needs to step up and do whats right for the Game!
posted by hincandenza at 12:04 AM on October 11
Selig needs to step up and do whats right for the Game! White Sox don't agree.
posted by justgary at 02:50 AM on October 11
Nor should they. The White Sox played themselves into their current advantage. Taking it away from them would be at least as "unfair" as making the Angels play now. None of which excuses the horrific playoff scheduling practices of the MLB and their friends at Fox/ ESPN.
posted by yerfatma at 06:10 AM on October 11
I thought every time you delete a comment on SportsFilter, God kills a kitten. Steinbrenner earns a dollar every time God kills a kitten. So if x = y and y = z, x = z. Considering last night's game, I guess we should stop talking about how the Yankees' payroll gives them a significant advantage. At least until Steinbrenner overreacts to the loss and lards another $100 million on the payroll.
posted by rcade at 07:02 AM on October 11
But you're not bitter, rcade! In re: this and your comment in that other thread: out of curiosity, do you have a baseball team that you like to watch -- like, for the fun of the game, human drama of athletic competition, all that -- or do you really just live for this one moment a year (or less) when the Yankees are eliminated? It's your time and your remote, but it's a lot of time (and late nights), and if that was all I could get out of watching baseball, I'd start watching golf, myself.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:52 AM on October 11
The Rangers. He's mentioned it plenty of times.
posted by yerfatma at 08:48 AM on October 11
As he says, I'm a Rangers fan. I grew up watching the Yankees come to Arlington and steamroll the local heroes in the '70s, and more recently they've knocked the Rangers out of the playoffs all three times they made the postseason. I don't live for the moment the Yankees get knocked out, but like every other fan of a team that's not even good enough to have a curse, I have to find my postseason enjoyment where I can. I live for the moment the University of North Texas makes the top 25 in football.
posted by rcade at 09:09 AM on October 11
The Rangers. He's mentioned it plenty of times. Right, I forgot. It's very hard to tell sometimes; his big baseball moment happened last night, after all ;-)
posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:09 AM on October 11
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