June 20, 2005

Horry's big shot wins Game 5: "Robert Horry hit a 3-pointer with 5.8 seconds left in overtime to give the Spurs a 96-95 victory over the Detroit Pistons in Game 5 of the NBA Finals."

posted by kirkaracha to basketball at 01:13 AM - 49 comments

Why Tim Duncan is playing like he is afraid to win. He doesn't want to get mounted by Manu. Again.

posted by geekyguy at 02:30 AM on June 20

go spurs! since the rockets got knocked out in the playoffs, i gotta go with the spurs. i like tim duncan and i know he can redeem himself in game 6. i gotta feeling that the home advantage is gonna give the spurs another title. look at how well they did in the first 2 games at home. spurs got game 6 and the title in the bag! GO SPURS!

posted by rocketsfan22 at 02:55 AM on June 20

the Spurs owe laast night to "big shot bob"--He is the only reason why they won

posted by daddisamm at 06:42 AM on June 20

geekyguy: what a crazy photo......Manu has these bared teeth and Duncan looks very nervous... Finally, a great game! I guess we knew it would happen at some point, both teams showing up, and what a treat. Horry gives the Slate guy a big F--- YOU, Duncan continues to cast doubt on his own G(PF)OAT status, and Pop outcoaches LB. What has amazed me, however, is how badly Billups has ABUSED Parker....yet the Spurs still lead the series. I can't remember off the top of my head a team winning the NBA Finals despite losing the PG matchup so thoroughly.

posted by smithers at 06:48 AM on June 20

The "big three" didnt do alot in the 2nd half for the Spurs.

posted by daddisamm at 08:07 AM on June 20

I'm with rocketsfan...Rockets are out...my eyes look west from I-10 (sorry, Mavs fans....never really liked your team). C'mon Spurs...one more and it's yours.

posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 08:13 AM on June 20

The Slate guy gets no "F--- You" from Horry's performance last night. He had a good game in a clutch situation, which he's done many times before. That doesn't make him great. It just means he sank the one three they signed him to make. Duncan still doesn't have the scoring touch, but everything else is there. And Manu showed up too. On the other side, Ben and Chauncey and Sheed all played varying degrees of out of their minds too. It was a wonderful, wonderful game, the one we were hoping for two threads ago.

posted by chicobangs at 08:42 AM on June 20

chicobangs, Horry didn't just sink the one three, he sank 5 threes that they needed desperately and also made that so-so-sick dislocate-his-left-shoulder Superman dunk over Rip Hamilton when they needed the spark in OT. Duncan had a great game until the 4th quarter. After he missed the gimme at the end though, it was obvious that he was on tilt in overtime, going way too hard off the glass, flubbing entry passes that were right on target. Horry saved him, but I will say that without Duncan's first 3 quarters and rebounding prowess, Horry would never have had the shot to once again become Big Shot Rob. I loved Pop's move to switch Bowen onto Billups and Parker onto Rip for OT because Billups is Detroit's "Mr. Big Shot" and at least Bowen could stay in front of him on his drives, unlike Parker. Perhaps more importantly, Rip is Detroit's anti-clutch player, from what I've seen - missed open jumpers and layups galore - so Parker on him as a changeup wouldn't be too bad. Lo and behold, Rip badly misses that jumper at the end despite clearing space with an elbow to Parker's head.

posted by platocave at 09:03 AM on June 20

Horry had 18 points in the fourth quarter and overtime. And that dunk was awesome.

posted by kirkaracha at 09:20 AM on June 20

Guess that June 18 story and post by lilnemo about Horry being either clutch or a fraud looks really ridiculous now. I haven't heard or checked, but hopefully that columnist takes his foot out of his mouth long enough to retract most, if not all, of that column. You don't play on that many championship teams out of dumb luck. Great teams pick someone like Horry up because he can come through like he did last night.

posted by dyams at 09:30 AM on June 20

Platocave, your analysis is spot on (though I truly don't care about how sick the dunk was. Two points is two points, and again, no one -- no one -- is arguing that Horry isn't a proven clutch performer). I like Rip Hamilton, a lot; he's got great skills and a good heart. But I'd like him even more if he started sinking some late-game shots.

posted by chicobangs at 09:35 AM on June 20

the Spurs owe laast night to "big shot bob"--He is the only reason why they wonHorry scored 96 points!?!And he kept passing the ball to himself!?!Damn what a one man team.

posted by HOE.O.K. at 10:01 AM on June 20

Thats all the Pistons were missing,one guy who could be credited for being the only reason that they lost!!Maybe the name Rasheed should be inserted?He did forget to rotate.Flat out if Rasheed showed,up game 5 would have been Detroits hands down.But the Spurs did stay strong and confident all credit to the Texas Champs,Western Champs,and likely soon to be '05 N.B.A. Champs.Spurs,how you like us now?!

posted by HOE.O.K. at 10:22 AM on June 20

I truly don't care about how sick the dunk was. Two points is two points While I agree with you in a literal sense, chicobangs, i.e. two points being simply that, I think it is important to remember that sometimes a spectacular dunk can be important for momentum, an intangible that can't really be quantified that precisely.

posted by insomnyuk at 10:26 AM on June 20

That Horry dunk was huge. The guy's great off the bench. The Spurs should be down 3-2 thanks to Tim Duncan's inability to make a free throw in the stretch, but Horry all but handed them another title.

posted by rcade at 10:33 AM on June 20

Horry is fastly becoming a legend, which is far better than the HOF. His name will be remembered as well as his clutch ability. He has what Joe Montana had. Joe never led the league in most anything except proficiency ratings, but he produced in the clutch and so does Horry. Big Shot Robert is a special player, and we had him here in LA for awhile and now the Spurs got him and it's just that everyone loves Horry, well except Detroit!

posted by bluekarma at 10:50 AM on June 20

That doesn't make him great.What?Horry isnt great!How many game winners has Horry put up?How many rings does he have?Best Clutch 3 pointer of all time,along with Reggie!?I would have to say he is great.

posted by HOE.O.K. at 11:17 AM on June 20

HOE.O.K.: No, a good half, no matter when it happens, doesn't make Horry great. Greatness is a term reserved for people who bring it every day, who get you to where all you need is someone to have a good second half in Game 5. Horry is a journeyman with one (important, sure, but very specialized) skill. Joe Montana? Really? Joe Montana stayed with one team his entire career, and was, in every sense of the word, The Man on those teams. Dwight Clark, Jerry Rice, Bill Walsh, Ricky Watters, Ronnie Lott, none of them come to mind like Joe does when you think about the 49ers of the 80's. The Spurs are Tim Duncan's team, not Horry's. And after Tim, there's Manu and (despite the last couple of weeks) Tony Parker and maybe even Bruce Bowen who have put their personality on this team before Horry. Duncan (jokingly, but still) said it himself in the press conference afterward: Horry barely showed up for the rest of the season and the playoffs. Horry may be making a legend out of himself, but leave Joe Montana's name out of this. You want a Capital-G Great clutch 3-point shooter who meant more to his team than the one-trick journeyman Horry will ever mean to anybody this side of his family? Look up Reggie Miller. That's consistent greatness. Save the word for people who deserve it.

posted by chicobangs at 11:52 AM on June 20

I never said anything about Joe chico.Never said it was his team neither,but when you make game winners like his be it playoff time or not,the guy is still great!Great players win games,even if they are only in the playoffs you could take a whole season off comeout only for the playoffs make a game winning 3 pointer,oh lets say to pretty much win the championship,just once in your life and you would be considered great.Now do that time after time with multiple teams and im pretty sure they(anyone)would be calling you great.Check out #10.

posted by HOE.O.K. at 12:13 PM on June 20

Yeah and look at all of Reggies rings!?!Save the word for people who deserve it.Tony the Tiger and Kellogs are going to sue for our over use of the word great.Horry=Great.Speak for yourself.Ask anyone in the NBA:Who is the most clutch performer active in the league and Horry will be mentioned in the top 3 every time.Horry means about 5 rings to his past 3 teams.Plus a clutch 3 pointer is not consistent?I would say Horry means alot to the 5 championship teams he played on,let alone his family.Horry=Great.Love him or be jealous like my man chicobang.Sore loser.He has been doing this for years,ask Phili,Sacremento,and now the Pistons.

posted by HOE.O.K. at 12:37 PM on June 20

Mavs fans are expected to be bitter.So my pitty is with you chico.

posted by HOE.O.K. at 12:39 PM on June 20

Yeah and look at all of Reggies rings!?! I hate that argument. Because an individual player in a team game has no championship rings, it somehow denegrates their perceived ability. Ted Williams never won a World Series. Joe DiMaggio won 9 World Series rings. If someone were to suggest that DiMaggio is a better player because he more rings than Williams, then I'd wonder about their baseball acumen. To put it concisely: Championship rings won an individual in a team sport can be used as a positive for that individual, but in a minor way (to "round out" a player's status in history, not establish it). The lack of championship rings won by an individual in a team sport should not be used as a negative for that individual. They (usually) have no control over the teammates they have around them.

posted by grum@work at 12:50 PM on June 20

Pitty Sing?

posted by yerfatma at 12:51 PM on June 20

I never, ever spoke for anyone else. And you have totally schooled me, HOE. I get it now. You speak for everyone, apparently, including bluekarma, who did mention Joe Montana (the paragraph break in my post meant I was addressing the rest of the thread; there are other people reading this, eh?) In a team sport that plays a hundred games a year (including preseason and playoffs), to imply that someone needs to only show up for one shot to achieve Hall Of Fame-level Greatness is disingenuous (look it up) and frankly insulting to the players who make a point of showing up every day and putting out an effort every time they put on their jersey, whichever one it may be. But since I won't link to random action photos or dictionary definitions, I know when I'm "beaten." From now on, to quote a wiser man than I, I will sine my pitty on the runny kine.

posted by chicobangs at 01:07 PM on June 20

Ummm...just a thought...how can Bob Horry possibly be a HOFer if he's never been in the starting 5 of his NBA teams? Unless someone is injured or suspended, of course.

posted by Texan_lost_in_NY at 01:29 PM on June 20

the Spurs owe laast night to "big shot bob"--He is the only reason why they won---Horry scored 96 points!?!And he kept passing the ball to himself!?!Damn what a one man team. posted by HOE.O.K. at 10:01 AM CST on June 20 Look at the stats--The Big three score most of thier points in the first half--Horry had they majotiy of his down the stectch when they were needed. When Duncan couldnt hit a free-throw--Its a team game-last night Horry was the "cog" that put them over the top. If Horry isnt on the floor, the Spurs dont win--period.

posted by daddisamm at 01:37 PM on June 20

H.O.E.O.K, I totally agree with your opinions. I t feels so good that the SPURS have to lay all they have on the court tuesday to be the NBA CHAMPS!!! Thanks to a full team effort and Robert Horry. I like forward to seeing alot of crying from the PISStons after this defeat.

posted by Rage Rod 74 at 01:48 PM on June 20

I still feel that he will be a future HALL OF FAMER! The only guy to win a championship with 3 other teams is John Salley. We all know thats not even a comparison.

posted by Rage Rod 74 at 01:50 PM on June 20

We all know thats not even a comparison. Rage Rod, who's "We all?" I actually think John Salley is a great comparison (better than Joe Montana, certainly). Salley was as important to the success of his teams (especially the Pistons) as Horry is, overall, to the Spurs' success here. They wouldn't have succeeded without him, but he was a supporting player. (And I like how you separated out Horry from the "full team." Even I wouldn't go that far.)

posted by chicobangs at 02:00 PM on June 20

Anyway, I like how there were other players on the court too, and they played a full 48 minutes. Ben Wallace was a monster, and Manu showed up, and Tim played with fire and grace too. It was a hell of a good game, for four quarters. That's a rarity, and it was wonderful to watch.

posted by chicobangs at 02:01 PM on June 20

I'm going to agree with chico here. Salley was very instrumental to Detroit's championships. He was often the anchor of their defense. So it is a very accurate comparison. Salley may not have contributed as many memorable moments on the floor as Robert, so he may not be perceived as "clutch", but he was an important part of a championship team. If it makes you feel better, you can insert Vinnie Johnson's name in that comparison, and still be quite accurate. For the record: I do not believe that Horry is a HOF'er. He just does not stack up statistically. He is, however an excellent player who could play effectively play for most teams in the league, coming off of the bench. Robert is not a player that you build a team around, he is a very good complementary piece. On a team with structure, discipline, and an established centerpiece like the Spurs (and briefly for the Lakers) Horry can come in and contribute. On a team that is disorganized and scrambling (like the Suns during his tenure) he just won't be as effective.

posted by lilnemo at 02:19 PM on June 20

you are 100% correct lilnemo

posted by daddisamm at 03:09 PM on June 20

I love this site - Horry comes in and, basically "does it again" - plays above his numbers, better than his usual contribution - and then folks start poring in about how its irrelevant when put into context of his overall career. He's overhyped, and overrated. Guys, he poured in 21 in the second half of Game 5 of the Finals. Of a series tied 2-2. This may be the greatest of the greats of Bob's very impressive 'clutch' performances. Take it for what it is: A classic crunch performance from a guy who's done it before. Is he a HOF'er? No. Does that stop him from being a great player? Hell no.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 03:18 PM on June 20

Is he a HOF'er? No. Does that stop him from being a great player? Hell no. And that is the crux of the problem. People can't accept a player can be great/clutch, without being in the HOF. I have a feeling that the same type of people like to hype Joe Carter for the baseball Hall of Fame and Clark Gillies for the hockey Hall of Fame. Whoops.

posted by grum@work at 03:25 PM on June 20

Chicobangs, Robert Horry is an extremely much better player then John Salley ever was. Yes he hand a distant hand in helping the pistons in the early 90's. I can think of Dennis Rodman, vinnie johnson, isiah, laimbeer, and dumars who very much overshadowed salley. Salley never hit any game winning shots in any finals game did he? And he never had a 4th quarter like Horry had last night. Speaking of WE ALL, I mean the individuals who know there SPORTS!! h.o.ek. , was right you are a sore loser. hehehehe

posted by Rage Rod 74 at 03:53 PM on June 20

Of course there was other players on the court as well CHICO, I never implied that dude. For your information Ben Wallace was not a monster!! He had like 15pts 14 rebounds, or something close to that. Want to talk about a monster, lets talk about Tim Duncan with 26pts 19 rebounds, now thats a MONSTER!!

posted by Rage Rod 74 at 04:01 PM on June 20

Actually Grum, I was going to say Steve Thomas is the Robert Horry of hockey, because of the overtime goals in his career, etc., but its probably not that similar.

posted by chris2sy at 04:05 PM on June 20

grum: BTW, if there is any sport where lack of rings is a viable/valid issue with respect to greatness, it is basketball. Fewer players on the court at any given time, everyone plays both sides of the court, and greater chance for any one player on the court to influence/impact the play of others. Not like a Williams, who could bat 1.000 but not make the guys around him hit better or worse (except very indirectly), or Marino, who could pass for 10K yards in a season but not stop the run or get a yard on 3rd and goal at the one (except very indirectly). A good help-side defender in basketball helps all his teammates out, and that same defender can also be a great passer who does the same. Does that mean you're great if you won rings? I'm sure there are some Celtics and Bulls bench guys with 2-3 rings who could be easily used to dispute that. And obviously most of the greats of Jordan's era don't have any rings. But the correlation is a hell of a lot stronger than it is in any other sport, I'd wager.

posted by tieguy at 04:11 PM on June 20

A guy can contribute to a title (or two), like Mark "Mad Dog" Madsen and get a couple of rings out of the deal...what is so bad about that? It doesn't mean they are great, but it doesn't mean they just sat there like a piece of shit either.

posted by chris2sy at 04:25 PM on June 20

Actually, Darko has sat there like a piece of shit the past two Finals. For the record.

posted by tieguy at 05:29 PM on June 20

Whats the deal with Darko?? Is he ever going to play ever? I wonder how much of an impact he would be on another team.

posted by Rage Rod 74 at 08:41 PM on June 20

I have witnessed Horry ruin many of my office bets over the last 10 years and all I can say is I would have stuck a man on him. As a Piston's fan, we folded in the last seconds, and were not the champions last night. We forgot to cover the "hot" guy and froze when they put a decent defense on us with plenty of time left. Hey, I was playin' with some buddies on Saturday and I made the last clutch shot, a fade jumper over a 6'4" (I'm 5'10") center, so where's my jersery??? Of course the audience was a rusted truck and some bushes.........

posted by Bears85 at 10:31 PM on June 20

Actually Grum, I was going to say Steve Thomas is the Robert Horry of hockey, because of the overtime goals in his career, etc., but its probably not that similar. He's a great comparison to Horry, except for the missing rings. Gillies is less of a comparison, but he's got the rings (from playing with greats like Trottier, Potvin and Smith).

posted by grum@work at 10:53 PM on June 20

He did forget to rotate. rasheed did not forget to rotate. he merely switched over to manu, but saw that tayshaun was closer and went down to double duncan. that's what i read anyway. didn't catch the game. i think pistons probably win the next game. rob horry, with all due respect, doesn't score 21 pts every night. i would love to be him though. like simmons says: he does bad, no one notices. he does great, everyone notices.

posted by sangu at 12:19 AM on June 21

Horry will not be in the hall of fame,neither will jon salley.But the two of those players sure are great!!!!!

posted by HOE.O.K. at 09:50 AM on June 21

We all know thats not even a comparison. Rage Rod, who's "We all?" I actually think John Salley is a great comparison (better than Joe Montana, certainly). Salley was as important to the success of his teams (especially the Pistons) as Horry is, overall, to the Spurs' success here. They wouldn't have succeeded without him, but he was a supporting player. posted by chicobangs at 2:00 PM CST on June 20 My words exactly.Couldnt agree with you more.But i would have to say those two supporting players where great,obviously the word means different definitions with everyone.

posted by HOE.O.K. at 09:57 AM on June 21

"Whats the deal with Darko??"

posted by yerfatma at 11:35 AM on June 21

heh, so pistons win game 6. knew it. horry? 8 pts in 30 min, 4 personal fouls. and no one mentions it in any article.

posted by sangu at 12:25 AM on June 22

Hall of Fame, sangu. Go directly to Springfield, do not pass Go. And half this thread will all-caps your ass if you forget it.

posted by chicobangs at 01:37 AM on June 22

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