To make this clear. The game was not going on when Horn took his phone out. He was not holding up play. He was not taunting anyone. As far as the positioning of the phone, it was tucked in below the goal-post. Not exactly a case of offensive tackles tripping over Horn's phone on the 50-yard-line. Once again, "I don't like it" seems to be the limit of the integrity argument. So next year, Joe Horn could bury a Hummer at midfield, dig it up and do donuts to celebrate? By your standards, he wouldn't be holding up play, it wouldn't be direct taunting and no one would be "tripping over it." I also take issue with the idea that he wasn't taunting the other team. You don't think planting a cell phone in advance of a game says to the Giants, "Shit, dog, I KNEW I would score on your sorry ass!" I simply don't understand why someone, anyone in a New York uniform didn't lay a nice helmet on one of Horn's knees at some point later in the contest. Gives you a good reason why Fassel's not there anymore. Somewhere, a line needs to be drawn. Billy "White Shoes" Johnson, the "Ickey Shuffle" and the Fun Bunch were all great examples of players just enjoying themselves. Planting a goddamned prop is just too much, and it needs to be stopped. You want to watch those games, Jack, go right ahead ... but that killed my wavering kinship with the Saints. I turned the game off, and I won't be purchasing Saints' merchandise in the future. That's how I cast my vote, and it's the only one the NFL gives a damn about.
Anything can be used as motivation...but why play with fire. Coaches sometimes are desperate for motivation. It simply makes no sense if the idea is to win the game. Its like making an unnecessary move in chess, just because you can. It's DUMB! I think the underlying thinking here involves the degree to which one thinks they can escape reprisal for their actions. The stand-out at the local park is gonna yabber til the sun goes down each and every time he dunks on someone, if no one is there to put him in his place. Put that same ass clown in a real game, and his jaw all of a sudden clamps up. TO is such an ass clown, and if it weren't for his freakish size, his mouth would be alot smaller as well. And that's just it. You can never know what you can get away with. Gamesmanship is fine, if it gives you an edge and you get away with it. But what does celebrating get you? Personal aside: The one experience in my HS career that sticks out where the other team crossed the line, counted their chickens early, and defeated my team in the last game of the season handing us our only loss, the next year, we remembered, and put the hurt down on those cocky pricks, completing a perfect season. Even now, I'm still motivated to kick ass.
So next year, Joe Horn could bury a Hummer at midfield, dig it up and do donuts to celebrate? By your standards, he wouldn't be holding up play, it wouldn't be direct taunting and no one would be "tripping over it." I'm pretty sure digging up a giant Humvee-sized hole at midfield would be "holding up play" and I'm pretty sure someone is going to be "tripping over" the hole left behind. :) wfrazerjr: You probably didn't like Rod Tidwell's celebration near the end of "Jerry Maguire" either. :) garfield: And what you did should be enough reason for a coach to come down hard on his team when it thinks about celebrating.
garfield: And what you did should be enough reason for a coach to come down hard on his team when it thinks about celebrating. But that's between the coach and his players. Gamesmanship/Taunting/
Celebration can get into the heads of the opponents, which is why it's tried so often, and that's why coaches often tolerate it. Sometimes it works, other times it doesn't. Sometimes it makes sense given the context. Other times it doesn't. The general rule is that if you can't beat the unsportsmanlike opponent, beat him. Period. It's a rather inexpensive method, in terms of time and money.
I'm pretty sure digging up a giant Humvee-sized hole at midfield would be "holding up play" and I'm pretty sure someone is going to be "tripping over" the hole left behind. :) Just a slight exaggeration to prove a point that there's no question that digging around in the padding on the goalpost, then grandstanding while pantomiming talking on a cell phone also held up the game. It would also be difficult to jackhammer through the concrete underneath the Superdome turf, I suppose, but if you turned Joe Horn upside-down and bashed his thick skull on there a few times, I'm sure it would do the trick.
Also late to the party, but I would like to suggest an alternative take: Excessive end zone celebrations (in particular those from Terrell Owens and Joe Horn) expose the NFL to ambush marketing efforts by companies who don't want to pay the expensive sponsorship premiums that the NFL is currently able to command. In the case of Sharpie, though the firm decided not to formally endorse Owens, they did receive an estimated $500,000 in free exposure from the incident. While obviously not all end zone celebrations end up like these, it makes sense to complete nip the potential in the bud as much as possible. (What is to prevent some company in the future from deliberately designing these types of "campaigns"?) So I see this not so much as a black vs. white thing as a struggle for economic power between management and labour.
Yeah, the whole 'Golden Palace.com' tatoo thing was lame as hell.
Additional grumbling. Heh. "The Rocket". Good idea!
5) As for the paying customer: He doesn't draft players. He doesn't call plays. He doesn't hire or fire coaches. So what makes him think that he should have any more control over players than owners, GM, or coaches. To understand how stupid this comment is, apply it to government [A bit US-centric. Apologies. As for the gender slant, I picked that up from the original post]. "As for the taxpayer: He doesn't nominate Supreme Court judges. He doesn't make foreign policy. So what makes him think that he should have any more say in what his elected officials do with his hard-earned money?" For the most part I stopped attending live *professional* sporting events. For one, I can't afford attending the game what with the parking, the ticket prices, the concessions, etc. But mostly, I can't stand all the me-ism. As for the celebrating, as my wife said when she saw an NFL player celebrating a 9-yard catch (dispite the fact that the players team was significantly behind, and this play didn't even produce points) "It's your job, dude. Just #@%&ing do it." Another way to see how stupid the celebrations are is to watch the newest Windows commericals.
Another way to see how stupid the celebrations are is to watch the newest Windows commericals. There is a Tim Horton's commercial running in most large Canadian markets where it shows someone doing some mundane office task (clearing a paper jam, getting a faulty stapler to work, clicking "save" on a document) and then smiling and doing some mini-celebration and then going to Tim Horton's to celebrate with a nice, tasty sandwich and coffee. Mmmm...sandwich. When I see that ad, I must be getting the same feeling that terrapin (and others) are mentioning about excessive celebration. It's ridiculous to celebrate something that is typical for your job. The big difference is: taking a handoff and plowing through a line of 300lb men who are trying to separate you from the ball (and your head) and scampering 64 yards to the endzone is probably more "celebration-worthy" than clearing the paper jam.
Great thread.
damn, it ain't over, is it? Don't we have an applicable Simpsons quote, for God's sake!?!
(insert animation of Homer being electrocuted/high on something/walking like an Egyptian/acting like Bugs Bunny after having drank poison or faking death.)
Wally: Who's ready for some football! Homer: FOOOTBAAAALLL! Moe: Homer, we've been running around cheering for an hour, where's the game!? Homer: You guys were following me!? I was following Flanders! or Pat Summerall: Well John, what did you think of tonight's episode? John Madden: I loved it! The last minute addition of Wally Kogen to the lineup was a bit of a gamble, but it really payed off. Pat: Marge and Lisa painting eggs. Did that work for you? John: Oh, big time! They came off the bench with a huge effort, and allowed Homer and Bart to make some significant gains. Pat: Did it strike you as odd that in a Superbowl show with Dolly Parton we didn't see any football or singing? John: I hadn't thought about it Pat, but in retrospect, it was kind of a ripoff! What a way to treat the loyal fans who have put up with so much nonsense from this franchise! Pat: Any final thoughts? John: Nah, I'm too mad let's get the hell out of here! Best I can do on short notice ;)
Homer: The other day I was so desperate for a beer I snuck into the football stadium and ate the dirt under the bleachers. Wonder if he found a Hummer, a cellphone, or even a Sharpie under there? ;)
Thank you, folks. I am sated.
