04/24/24
April 30, 2009
When is enough, enough?: Big-mountain skier Shane McConkey - the father of extreme skiing - was killed during a failed ski-BASE that prevented him from utilizing his wingsuit and pulling his parachute. For these athletes, high risk is everything and they leave themselves no room for malfunction and no plan B. Shane is survived by his wife, Sherry, and their 3 1/2 year old daughter Ayla. It was reported that at the funeral, "the kids all had a look on their face like Superman had just died."
Great point Bo.
With respect and sympathies towards the families of those who died while taking these risks, I think if you have kids you should stop endangering yourself to this extent.
It starts to become a really self-absorbed way to express your passion when you don't stop to consider what failure on your part will leave in the aftermath. These kids will never get their dad back. Ever. They had a look like Superman had just died because in fact for them, he did.
posted by THX-1138 at 02:33 PM on April 30, 2009
Rest in Peace Shane. There is no doubt that you will be remembered as one of the greatest skiers of all time.
posted by jbtron at 02:33 PM on April 30, 2009
There is no doubt that you will be remembered as one of the greatest skiers of all time.
And as one of the most careless.
posted by irunfromclones at 03:38 PM on April 30, 2009
People like this make me so fucking angry. Perhaps it's because I'm a father of three and the newest is just two months old, but I can't get past how that poor girl has to grow up without her daddy now just because her idiot father was a selfish adrenalin junkie.
What a prick. Sorry, only sympathy here is for his daughter. Fuck him.
posted by Drood at 04:06 PM on April 30, 2009
When Shane McConkey died, I wondered the exact thing posed by this thread. It's a damn shame that the pursuit of an adrenaline rush and the perks that come with performing these stunts on TV is leading so many extreme athletes to early graves.
I know it's a bit hypocritical to say that, since I grew up loving Evel Kneivel and have thrilled to some stunts by people like McConkey. But at a certain point, it all runs together. I hadn't even heard of the guy until he died.
Should extreme athletes lead a more responsible life after starting a family?
I think so. Sponsors and TV networks also should take that into consideration. Helping to make kids fatherless is a lousy endorsement for a product.
posted by rcade at 04:38 PM on April 30, 2009
It's a damn shame that the pursuit of an adrenaline rush and the perks that come with performing these stunts on TV is leading so many extreme athletes to early graves.
If they weren't famous, meth would have done it instead.
Yours,
Darwin's Poolboy
posted by yerfatma at 05:59 PM on April 30, 2009
McConkey wasn't careless. He might have been a lot of the things people are saying about him, and I might agree with a lot of them, but you don't pull off over 700 ski-basing stunts by being careless. At work there was more than anything the law of averages. If you do something that dangerous enough times, there's a pretty good chance one little thing might go wrong with your carefully laid plans. And when one little thing goes wrong in ski-basing, you die. Simple. Rest in peace, Shane, the Tahoe basin will always remember you and the things you created.
posted by tahoemoj at 06:43 PM on April 30, 2009
I think if you have kids you should stop endangering yourself to this extent.
I pretty much think so. I've given up a bunch of motorcycle routes I used to take, because once I became a dad I decided they were too high-risk. Get your kids to adulthood, is my view, then you can start taking silly risks again.
posted by rodgerd at 07:50 PM on April 30, 2009
rodgerd nailed it. I sky-dived and bungee jumped at age 20, and now, 18 years later, when I'm asked if I'll ever do it again, I say that if I were to survive those activities my wife would kill me anyway. Seriously, when there are people in your life depending on you, you have to be there for them, particularly if you brought them into the world.
posted by sbacharach at 10:59 PM on April 30, 2009
So, basically, if you get married and have kids, leave the armed services or police force immediately, ya selfishheads! :P
Yes, yes, not the same thing.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:29 AM on May 01, 2009
If I found out that my Dad stopped doing the things he loved because of me, I would be mortified. If I found out that my Dad died doing what he loved, my devastation over his passing would be mollified by that fact. Eventually. But that's me.
posted by bobfoot at 01:22 AM on May 01, 2009
Let me rephrase, bob ... If I found out that my Dad died doing what he loved,which he apparently loved more than he loved me ...
Not attacking you, I see what you're saying ... but, I'm just sayin' ...
posted by littleLebowski at 08:18 AM on May 01, 2009
Phew. For a while I thought I was the only one who reckoned these guys are egotistical wankers with too much money and free time.
posted by owlhouse at 09:52 AM on May 01, 2009
Well then, am I the only one repressing a lot of black humor out of respect for the dead?
posted by yerfatma at 11:36 AM on May 01, 2009
If I found out that my Dad stopped doing the things he loved because of me, I would be mortified.
Interesting how people can have differing perspectives on the same issue. If my dad had stopped doing something he loved because he loved me more, I would consider myself the luckiest kid around. And I would be grateful that I would have my dad around for a longer time.
And no, yerfatma. You're not the only one. Shall we look back in tomorrow and see if it's time?
posted by THX-1138 at 01:28 PM on May 01, 2009
-NASCAR driver acn wreck and die and have families. -Drag racers can wreck and die and some have families. -Rock climbers can fall and die and some have families. -Football players and boxers can get brain damage and have proven shorter lifespans
These sports have alot of risk. Should people stop doing them when they have a family. Some may say it makes no sense to keep going, but for some, thats the life style. It is easy to say "give up what you have been doing for your family" but different when you have to do it. I think the guys are dumb but to quote Ron White, "you cant fix stupid" If you marry some crazy base jumper, chances are you fell for them because of the crazy risk taking. Dont expect them to change. You knew what you were getting.
posted by Debo270 at 02:19 PM on May 01, 2009
I checked with the Darwin Awards folks. No joy. They get about a dozen of these ski-BASE wingsuit parachute miscalculations ending in pancakes every day.
posted by irunfromclones at 04:54 PM on May 01, 2009
Okay, so it's not a tragedy in the general sense. But I do feel obligated to suggest that it's a little disappointing to see so many people who find it so easy to suggest that Conkey is a careless, selfish, bastard, because we don't respect what he did for a living.
There are plenty of dangerous, reckless activities that people engage in quite purposefully - but with an appropriate amount of caution, can be done well and fulfill some passion and purpose. Race car drivers, pilots, window washers, tons of the more sophisticated construction jobs - these people are not begrudged their passions.
But I did know of Conkey before this event. I had actually heard about him and followed his career before he died. And he seemed to be many things but I never saw this supposed careless, stupid, selfish man. He, and others like him, do genuinely have a different philosophy from most of us. It's legitimate. He was a professional athlete and a man of some serious staggering accomplishment and skill. Not to mention his impact on the people who actually do these things. Guy was a legend. But hey, if it makes you feel better...
I don't jump out of buildings, airplanes or off bridges - but I don't find it difficult to see why others do.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 05:49 PM on May 01, 2009
You can experience just as much danger/adrenaline as an aid worker in one of the world's trouble spots (or even just by flying on a local airline). But at the same time you're also trying to help other people, which isn't necessarily selfish. And is a better use of your money and time.
Therefore I prefer the comparison of these guys with meth users. They're also a bit like the fellow addicts that Philip K. Dick describes in the postscript to A Scanner Darkly - kids who play on the freeway, frequently seeing one of their number hit by a speeding car, but choosing to keep playing nonetheless.
I think I'll get off my rather tall horse about now.
posted by owlhouse at 06:13 PM on May 01, 2009
Thanks for talking some sense, Weedy.
Comparing this guy to a meth user is so absurd to me I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
I wish I hadn't read this thread. Who knew that Drood was such a douche bag? Oh well, live and learn.
posted by DudeDykstra at 08:14 PM on May 01, 2009
I am a parent of three. I love my kids. I can't imagine putting myself willingly in any situation that could end my life and take me away from them unless it was to protect them. Before I was a parent I drank, smoked, did drugs etc... I only had me to worry about. Now I have responsibilities.
If that makes me a douche bag for thinking this guy was an irresponsible jackass for putting whatever ridiculously dangerous pastime he enjoyed over seeing his daughter grow up, then I will gladly be a douche bag, because I'd rather be a douche bag than one of you lot who seem to think putting your own selfish desires over your child's need for a father is acceptable.
Have to wonder how many of you thinking this guy is anything other than a selfish prick are actually parents. (And I don't mean "have kids". I mean are actual decent parents.)
posted by Drood at 11:56 PM on May 01, 2009
I think the difference here is that you think of his pursuits as a pastime or a vain pursuit. So very, very wrong.
Hot piping judgement -s erved quick and without much thought or introspection. Your way is clearly the right and only way.
Sorry - not buying it.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 12:39 AM on May 02, 2009
I have some spare money and time, living in one of the most affluent societies on the planet. What should I do with it?
(a) Invest it safely to help secure my and my family's future?
(b) Donate it to a program that helps the less fortunate, in this country or elsewhere in the world?
(c) Spend it on myself merely so I can get an adrenaline rush?
If you answered (c), then you are either a drug addict or an extreme sports enthusiast. I see no difference. NB: The single ones are only marginally less selfish.
posted by owlhouse at 03:23 AM on May 02, 2009
So these assholes sit around and say, "well I've got some money and spare time, so let's all do dangerous stuff becuase it'll be like, wicked cool"?
That's a pretty absolute place to start discussing the topic. You've made up your mind before you even start asking the questions.
Plus - this kind of activity isn't just limited to affluent people. In fact, most of these guys aren't particularly wealthy at all. And they certainly don't start with wealth. They start as dishwashers.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 11:44 AM on May 02, 2009
I don't think it is wrong for a parent to honor his commitment to his children by doing everything he can to be around to see them grow up.
Shane McConkey's sport was invented -- largely by him -- and it was crazy as hell. What were the odds he would die during one of these jumps, particularly given the frequency he performed them? In my opinion they were too high.
He was hardly alone in taking big risks, nor was he alone in putting his career pursuits ahead of family considerations. Most of the big-name actors and athletes we idolize have kids who probably know their nannies better than their actual parents, since they're jetting around the planet all the time being awesome.
But Drood's not the only one asking the question "when is enough, enough?" I don't think the people who disagree with his take on this need to make it so personal.
posted by rcade at 01:37 PM on May 02, 2009
To me, the last line of the article says it all. "How much do I love my wife and child, or children? How long can I stay undefeated?"
Given that you only get one "loss" in this type of situation makes it such that a responsible parent wouldn't participate in this sport.
I know that once I had children my priorities changed, and rightfully so. If we're taking sides, put me on the side that says McConkey was a self-centered fool.
posted by dviking at 09:39 PM on May 02, 2009
I could never do it even if I had the skill. Those who have the skill can. Those who love and wed the skilled know what they are getting into. To us (the unskilled) it is irresponsible and incomprehensible. To the extreme athlete it is commonplace. While I grieve for those left behind, the extreme athlete is NOT to be condemned but admired for his (her) life. Code name Walenska.
posted by wconst4444globalnet at 12:52 AM on May 03, 2009
There are plenty of dangerous, reckless activities that people engage in quite purposefully -
Somebody write an article about how they died doing what they do and leaving their kids behind and I'll probably feel the same way as I do here.
There are plenty of ways to get an adrenaline rush. Many of them aren't deadly.
Maybe the question should be asked what motivates people to put themselves in this much danger when there is no need. The military, police, and firemen/rescue personnel don't really count because most would agree that they do what they do out of a sense of responsibility and desire to protect. Why does a BASE jumper jump? And why would he do it knowing that if he fails he dies and leaves his loved ones without him forever?
And why does the adrenaline rush seem to supercede the sense of responsibility to those you brought into the world? I can only come up with selfish reasons.
posted by THX-1138 at 06:39 PM on May 03, 2009
Ok. So anyone who has a very dangerous job, who is not doing it with a sense of national/societal responsibility (police, firemen, military) should immediately cease doing their jobs upon procreating.
Loggers, fishermen, pilots, iron-workers, roofers... procreation is right out for them. But there aren't enough accounting jobs out there for these folks to do.
As Debo270 said, these are the people the mothers married, they knew who they were dealing with.
Milquetoasts don't satisfy all women.
posted by bobfoot at 12:50 AM on May 04, 2009
Ok. So anyone who has a very dangerous job, who is not doing it with a sense of national/societal responsibility (police, firemen, military) should immediately cease doing their jobs upon procreating.
Loggers, fishermen, pilots, iron-workers, roofers... procreation is right out for them. But there aren't enough accounting jobs out there for these folks to do.
Bobfoot - that's not what is being said. You are creating a false dichotomy.
No-one is saying that you shouldn't take risks. Just that the reason for facing the risk should be more than just getting a personal thrill. I take risks all the time, as I have alluded to above.
Milquetoasts don't satisfy all women.
And I think you'll find that pulling women has got very little to do with these guys taking risks. Otherwise meth users would be some of the most attractive men on the planet.
posted by owlhouse at 01:01 AM on May 04, 2009
Milquetoasts don't satisfy all women.
But in this story, it is the risk-taker, adrenaline junkie's wife that is asking the question. So at this point, it seems that the people closest to the victim, or the future victims, are the ones questioning the level of responsibility that these men are capable of. So don't get confused that this thought is coming out of left field, it's coming straight from the heart of the issue.
You knew what you were getting.
...these are the people the mothers married, they knew who they were dealing with.
Is that some ridiculous fallback plan? I've never understood how stupidity in the future can somehow be justified by stupidity from the past.
posted by BoKnows at 01:27 AM on May 04, 2009
Milquetoasts don't satisfy all women.
How many women did Shane McConkey need to impress? The guy did more than 700 base jumps -- one of the riskiest extreme sports with 138 deaths in 28 years. I'm thinking he was long past the motivation to do crazy things to pull women.
The issue here isn't just that he engaged in a dangerous activity. It's that he did it hundreds of times in complete disregard for the law of averages.
P.s. I call bullshit on the notion that people who don't do this shit are wimps. Making a mortgage and putting three kids through college is manly.
posted by rcade at 09:06 AM on May 04, 2009
The guy did more than 700 base jumps -- one of the riskiest extreme sports with 138 deaths in 28 years.
The fact that he successfully completed 700+ jumps would indicate that he's probably not that reckless. Sure, the consequences of a mistake are dire, but if you know what you're doing, precautions and good technique can significantly reduce that risk.
That site with the list of deaths from BASE jumping didn't list how many jumps those people had completed before their accidents. I'd be interested to see information on that if anyone knows where it exists. Also, does anyone have any idea how many people partake in this activity? Don't get me wrong, I certainly feel bad for the family and friends left behind, but 5 deaths per year over the last 28 years doesn't exactly paint BASE jumping as the ticking time bomb that some people in this thread make it out to be.
posted by bender at 10:24 AM on May 04, 2009
In searching for an answer to Bender's question about how many BASE jumpers there are, I found this article
What I find extremely interesting is the quote from Herv Le Gallou, a jumper with over 1000 jumps. He has no family ties ("I would shoot myself in the head if I had a wife and kids," he says)
Seems as if at least one jumper agrees that having kids changes things.
posted by dviking at 11:14 AM on May 04, 2009
The fact that he successfully completed 700+ jumps would indicate that he's probably not that reckless.
He had moved on from base jumps to the more dangerous ski-base jumps. As Darren Rahlves said, "ski-basing is such a high-risk sport. There's almost no room for malfunction."
Here's a academic study attempting to quantify the mortality risk of base jumping. "BASE jumping appears to hold a five- to eightfold increased risk of injury or death compared with that of skydiving." On the mountain they studied, 1 in every 2,317 jumps was fatal and 1 in every 254 was a non-fatal accident.
I couldn't find any numbers on how much more dangerous it is to base jump with skis on, but here's a non-fatal illustration of how out of control a jump becomes when your skis are entangled with your chute. (It's also a nice illustration of how dumb and arbitrary this extreme sport is, when it's not happening on a mountain. What comes next when base jumping on SKIs is old hat -- ski-giant anvil-base jumping?)
posted by rcade at 11:27 AM on May 04, 2009
That was odd, jumping from a building ( a not very tall building) with skis on.
Nothing to admire there, that is something that belongs on the Jackass TV show.
posted by dviking at 12:01 PM on May 04, 2009
Yes, he was "a professional athlete and a man of some serious staggering accomplishment and skill". He was also an adrenaline junkie who cared more about his rush than anything or anyone else. That was his philosphy. He would rather die than stop doing what he loved the most. He got his wish.
The Tahoe basin will always remember you and the things you created. The guy added a footnote to a sport so extreme that 99.9% of the worlds population doesn't even know it exists. He also created a little girl who now has only pictures to remember her daddy by.
And while the ski-BASE community mourns the loss of a legend in their own minds, one day in the not too far distant future, some other guy will be boinking the former Mrs. McConkey, and his daughter will be calling some other guy dad..
The other guy will be at her proms and graduations, the other guy will be walking her down the aisle, and the other guy will be bouncing the grandkids on his knee. Was it worth it Shane?
posted by irunfromclones at 01:13 PM on May 04, 2009
The guy added a footnote to a sport so extreme that 99.9% of the worlds population doesn't even know it exists.
I said that the Tahoe basin would remember him, not the bay area or the country or the world (although many will.) He wasn't just a legend in the minds of the ski-base community, he was an internationally known big-mountain skier (maybe read the article) who provided inspiration to a new generation of skier. Because that's not a community in which you have an interest doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I wasn't a personal friend of McConkey's, but we shared a lot of mutual friends. The guy, whether you choose to love him or hate him, was a legend around these parts. My recognition of his contribution to the community I call home should not have provided a springboard for your solipsistic rant about the future of his family.
posted by tahoemoj at 02:22 PM on May 04, 2009
Milquetoasts don't satisfy all women.
I'm a musician. I didn't have to ski BASE jump to impress women. My tactics were much safer.
posted by THX-1138 at 08:19 PM on May 04, 2009
Oh Christ - this is a maddening.
Ah forget it - I've changed my mind. I agree. These guys are morons who contribute nothing and take stupid risks for no good reason. Dale Earnhardt was a selfish bastard who should have seen it coming. I can't believe that asshole had kids - and then taught them to do the very thing that killed him. That's so much worse than McConkey I don't know where to start. He should have just stuck to doing meth, 'cause it's pretty much the same thing.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 10:34 PM on May 05, 2009
The question "When is enough, enough?", was asked by Michelle Rahlves, wife of Daron Rahlves - also a professional skier/risk taker. Should extreme athletes lead a more responsible life after starting a family? Some believe so. (comments) And as the article points out, the shock factor, after one dies from a stunt of this magnitude is becoming less and less as the fatalities increase.