January 20, 2008

"Ok, we want the ball and we're gonna score!! For real!!"

Sad to see the Packers go down, but an exciting matchup in the Superbowl all the same. The Giants played a knock-down drag-out game in Week 17 against the Patriots, who looked vulnerable today.

posted by Goyoucolts at 9:21 PM CDT on January 20

Wow, this was a game for everyone who says they hate blowouts. I love'em as long as my team is doing the business but I remember a Giants-49ers playoff game from back in the day where I was the only family member still cheering at the 6th and 7th TDs. And despite rooting for the Giants I can still hardly believe Tynes made the winner after missing two shorter kicks in regulation.

Seems like very low odds but can the Giants continue the Cinderella run and knock off the Patriots?

posted by billsaysthis at 9:32 PM CDT on January 20

Coughlin's an odd bird, man. There's no such thing as a gimme field goal at any distance in 0 degree temps. When he come onto the field to berate his kicker after the first miss, I had to remark that that was the first time I had ever seen that at any level. At any rate, it was good to the Giants play some tough, defensive (and opportunistic) football in the 4th quarter and OT, they earned the win.

posted by psmealey at 9:40 PM CDT on January 20

When he come onto the field to berate his kicker after the first miss, I had to remark that that was the first time I had ever seen that at any level.

Coughlin hates kickers. He would rip them a new one in Jacksonville all the time.

posted by rcade at 9:41 PM CDT on January 20

Did anyone notice that Favre (and most of the Pack) looked like they were about to die of exposure the whole night, while Eli and Plaxico looked almost comfortable?

While Favre and Co. were planning on winning the game based solely on his 236,598-4 record in games where the temp. was -30 or below, Eli and the Giants were conducting practice out of doors.

I hope he gets a ring so Peyton stops having permanent dibs on shotgun in the Manning family minivan.

That would also prevent the wedgies, melvins, wet willies, atomic wedgies and glass bottom boats that Eli has been subjected to.

posted by HATER 187 at 11:08 PM CDT on January 20

I applaud the G-Men for knocking off the Pack in Lambeau. Their defense has really come to life in the past 4 or 5 games. They have shut down and thwarted the dreams of Buc, Cowboy, and Packer fans throughout. But, with great success comes a price - the defensive coordinator. I forget the guys name, but apparently the Falcons and Ravens are waiting to talk to him. Notice how nobody else is doing anything. Even the Redskins. So, Cotrell or whatever, will leave for his own gig. It happens to all of them.

As for the Super Bowl - I am with the masses. 19-0 sounds like a record for the ages. I can't see the Giants taking them down.

posted by Mickster at 12:16 AM CDT on January 21

Wheres Lefty??? I thought hed be in here by now....:D

posted by firecop at 1:17 AM CDT on January 21

I'm rooting for the Pats, but only a fool would underestimate the Giants at this point. They have been on fire for a month now. Two weeks rest, on the road, and the underdog position again?

They're the team to beat in the Superbowl, I think. It is going to be an extremely close game, I imagine, and The Patriots are going to need their entire bag of tricks if they're going to beat them.

posted by Joey Michaels at 5:00 AM CDT on January 21

[The Giants are] the team to beat in the Superbowl, I think.

To beat the Patriots, you have to play mistake-free football while accomplishing three key goals: (1) pressure Brady and make him throw before he's ready (2) avoid getting burned for big plays by the Pats offense (3) score touchdowns against the Pats defense. Getting pressure on Brady is essential, because if he has time to set his feet and look around the field he will tear a secondary apart. (This is especially true in perfect passing game conditions, as will be experienced in Arizona.) At the same time, a defense has to beware of the big play, primarily from Moss, but also from a 20 yard Maroney run, a big screen play to Faulk, a toss down the sideline to Stallworth, etc. The really tricky thing about the first two goals is that you have to accomplish them without overcompensating anywhere - if you blitz seven men, you might pressure Brady but there will be open recievers; if you blanket Moss with two or three guys, Welker will come free underneath; if you play a dime or quarter defense to stifle the passing game, Maroney and Faulk will make you pay with a hearty assist from the offensive line. On the other side of the ball, San Diego demonstrated the futility of challenging the Patriots without getting the ball in the end zone. It is absolutely impossible to beat the Patriots if you cannot convert touchdowns in the red zone, no matter how feisty your defense is, how powerful your running back looks between the 20s, or how tenacious your QB may be.

So the question is, can the Giants accomplish all three goals while avoiding mistakes? There's no question that their impressive D-line can get a good pass rush, even against the Patriots' collection of Pro Bowl blockers. Eli has the ability to convert touchdowns to his tall receivers in the end zone: the Pats starting CBs are 5'9' and 5'10", and Manning took advantage of that in week 17. But even hypothesizing that the Giants avoid multiple turnovers, I don't think their pass defense is good enough to stop Brady from finding open receivers. Evidence? In week 17, when Brady was obviously forcing the ball to Moss for the touchdown record, the Giants were unable to stop them. But Brady has always been most deadly when he utilizes his full complement of receivers, as he has in the playoffs thus far. If the Giants' secondary couldn't stop the Brady-to-Moss attempts that EVERYONE knew were coming, how will they stop the entire receiving corps, with the incredibly dangerous Faulk catching passes out of the backfield and Maroney running like a man possessed?

Of course, the Giants are capable of beating the Patriots - but I think it's unlikely to happen for the reasons outlined above, the fact that the Patriots are very unlikely to overlook their opponent or crown themselves prematurely, and the fact that the Pats beat the G-Men in Giants Stadium a few short weeks ago.

posted by Venicemenace at 6:58 AM CDT on January 21

They're both Parcells staffers and charm school dropouts.

Not an answer to your question, but I feel like this is the definitive statement on Coughlin:

"Tom Coughlin only reads Stars & Stripes and Reader's Digest, when his wife hands them up from her bunk stationed directly beneath his."

posted by yerfatma at 8:00 AM CDT on January 21

Sorry to see the Packers lose - would have been neat to see Favre make it to one more Super Bowl.

Giants defense did great job making Packers offense one dimensional. The Packers gave up on the run very early. Packers also helped out the Giants offense with penalties at key moments that kept Giants drives going.

Good luck to Giants against Pats. I think they're going to need to play mistake free and get a few turnovers againts Pats to pull it off.

posted by BikeNut at 8:02 AM CDT on January 21

All I can say is thank God that the Packers lost. Had they won, we'd have to be listening to two more weeks of Brett Favre verbal ass-kissing on every media outlet imaginable. He had a great regular season, but in the second half and overtime, he started trying to win the game by himself again (as he has done in every playoff loss for the Pack in the last decade or so) and handed away the game in a fashion that everyone in the media (except Dr. Z) will overlook.

The Giants outplayed the Pack and deserved to win. I almost have to cheer for them in the Super Bowl for the service they did. But I'm too big a fan of history (and Junior Seau and Randy Moss) to not cheer for the Pats in 2 weeks.

posted by TheQatarian at 9:26 AM CDT on January 21

Giants not only deserved to win the game, but after about mid-way through the second quarter were dominating to the point that I thought 2 missed FGs and losing the coin flip would make this an unfortuante loss. But Favre has to take the brunt of the blame for that horrible pass in OT. No chance on that.

Now - outdoor football in January can make a lot of teams look beatable, and I think once the Pats get into Arizona and aclimate they can start looking more like the team that they were earlier in the season. Are they beatable? Absolutely. Anyone watching the last 6 weeks I think has noticed that.

But all I wish for is a good game. Most of these Super Bowls are ridiculously bad.

At least this one has the added storyline of the Giants hitting their stride by virtue of playing the Pats. I bet their confidence is sky high heading into this one.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 9:52 AM CDT on January 21

The Packers gave up on the run very early.

Yea, I didn't get that. the week previous, Grant fumbles twice in three possessions and they stuck with him. This time, a few crappy runs and they totally forgo the running game. Even after he finally broke a first down, they relied only on Favre's shoulder.

Had they won, we'd have to be listening to two more weeks of Brett Favre verbal ass-kissing...

Did you watch the Pats-Chargers game? I think the announcers literally had hard-on for the Pats the entire game. If I played a drinking game of how many times they said, "the Pats are sooo good and can beat you in sooo many different ways," I would have died before the second half.
That was some serious homer announcing.

posted by jmd82 at 10:09 AM CDT on January 21

OK, I'll grant you guys the Brady ass-kissing bonanza as well. That does get annoying. But at least Brady wins the big games, as opposed to costing his team the big game with silly interceptions like Favre has done since the Super Bowl years. That's my biggest complaint about the Favre ass-kissing...they constantly overlook that rather massive flaw. Favre may be the greatest regular-season QB ever, but he's not the guy you want leading your team in the big game. Brady doesn't have that working against him.

posted by TheQatarian at 11:08 AM CDT on January 21

I am glad Eli gets his chance so quickly

Four seasons is "quickly"?

posted by lil_brown_bat at 11:27 AM CDT on January 21

Giants played a great game in that frozen tundra they call Lambeau Field.Eli had a great game and seemed to throw at will against that Green Bay defense.I thought that the Packers were going to win it in O.T. when they won the coin toss.But when Favre threw that pick,I knew it was over.Favre has had a great career,and has a Super Bowl ring(1 but correct me if I'm wrong)I think it's time for him to hang up the cleats and retire.One more Super Bowl would of been nice for him,but I think it would be the right thing for Bret to retire with all of the records that he holds.Next stop is the Hall of Fame.

posted by Ghastly1 at 11:49 AM CDT on January 21

Four seasons is "quickly"?

Absolutely. Like Brady and Roethlisberger, he's getting a chance to win a ring before he's hit his prime as an NFL quarterback.

posted by rcade at 12:42 PM CDT on January 21

I was wondering if Grant got hurt, the Pack gave up on running so quickly.

Their passing wasn't working, their timing was totally off, their receivers dropped some easy passes and gave up on some obvious routes.

But - they have a guy who was probably one of the top five RBs for the second half of the season, and who rushed for 200 yards in their first playoff game, but they totally refuse to use him after what, five minutes? Seems fishy.

posted by fabulon7 at 12:44 PM CDT on January 21

The Patriots aren't the only ones competing for a record.

11 straight ROAD wins?

posted by trs-80 at 1:13 PM CDT on January 21

I thought he was using one of those pocket warmers.

It was a handwarmer. I live in Wisconsin - it was -20 at my home on Sunday morning (actual temp - not wind chill). I can't believe so many of the players went with bare arms - frostbite does not make you macho (or improve your play).

My bet is Favre comes back for one more season. He may have blown it on Sunday night, but he had a lot of help (Al Harris on Burress, no running game, dumb penalties on defense that sustained Giant drives). He did lead the Packers to a 13-3 season when most people thought they'd be lucky to go 8-8. With benefit of playing in a weak division, he's got to believe he's got a better than average shot of making playoffs again next year.

posted by BikeNut at 2:32 PM CDT on January 21

terrapin: I am glad Eli gets his chance so quickly

lbb: Four seasons is "quickly"?

Seeing as the average team can only make the Superbowl once every 16 years, by definition, then the "average" player will get their first and probably only Superbowl appearance around their 8th year. Any player who can make it there in their fourth year is doing so quickly.

Plus, the other Manning didn't make the Superbowl until his 9th year; his brother is doing so in his 4th year, so that will also lower the wet willie/atomic wedgie index in the Manning family.

posted by Hal Incandenza at 3:47 PM CDT on January 21

Out of the other eleven playoff teams, the Pats played seven of them.
That's eight games, chargers twice, with combined score totals of 286 - 148.
You're kind of forced to say wow!

posted by RatDaddy at 5:43 PM CDT on January 21

Seeing as the average team can only make the Superbowl once every 16 years, by definition, then the "average" player will get their first and probably only Superbowl appearance around their 8th year. Any player who can make it there in their fourth year is doing so quickly.

Well, yeah, that's true -- Brady went to the Superbowl in year 2 (and year 1 was mostly on the bench), and so did Roethlisberger if I'm not mistaken, but they're outliers, not typical. So I guess Manning the Younger is on a pretty brisk schedule at that.

Plus, the other Manning didn't make the Superbowl until his 9th year; his brother is doing so in his 4th year, so that will also lower the wet willie/atomic wedgie index in the Manning family.

I'm so bummed that I didn't get into this thread first with the "what got said around the Manning family table" comment. "Hey, Payton! Guess what I'm doing in two weeks!" Actually, if Payton is a typical older brother, the web willie/atomic wedgie index ought to be going up, not down.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 6:34 PM CDT on January 21

Oh wait...there's this...

posted by lil_brown_bat at 7:43 PM CDT on January 21

Then there's this classic little tidbit everyone's already seen......

Win or lose, we might see a new crop of commercials after the Super Bowl where Eli one-ups Peyton for a change.

posted by NerfballPro at 9:27 PM CDT on January 21

You did not mention Gaffney once. The guy is proving himself to be a big player at critical times (similar to Faulk).

Yeah, that's what's truly scary. You shut down Moss and Welker. So Brady killls you with passes to Faulk and Gaffney. And don't forget Maroney, with a huge assist to that offensive line.

I don't know if I'm buying into the "greatest Team ever." But I'm pretty convinced it's the best passing offensive ever (with apologies to Bill Walsh and Joe Montana).

posted by cjets at 11:05 PM CDT on January 21

I don't know if I'm buying into the "greatest Team ever." But I'm pretty convinced it's the best passing offensive ever (with apologies to Bill Walsh and Joe Montana).

First, let me ask this: if they do win in arizona, to finish 19-0, will you then acknowlege them as being the best team ever?
Second, as a 49ers fan who picked my team when it was walsh and joe, and jerry, and john taylor, and dwight clark, the thing i really like about these patriots, is how much they look like my 9ers of the 80's. I dont think that randy moss compares with jerry rice, but i do think welker, gaffney, and stallworth, are better than any second, third and fourth reciever that the 9ers ever had. If the pats win, brady will have four rings as starting quarterback. The same number that monana has. He has proven his greatest worth in the playoffs, just like montana did. he has made his name at a time when a contemporary put up better statistics, like montana. I doubt that i'll ever put brady ahead of montana, but i do think they are in the same conversation.

posted by elijahin24 at 11:31 PM CDT on January 21

Peyton Manning is nothing cuz he has always had good recievers.

Yeah, it's not like Tom Brady has Randy Moss, or anybody like that.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 6:01 AM CDT on January 22

Even though Moss has been a bum in the playoffs

A bum, how? He was the focus of a defensive plan not to give up big plays, so the Pats wisely chose to advance the ball by sending it elsewhere. Moss went out and did his assignment, which included blocking when necessary. How does that make him a bum?

posted by lil_brown_bat at 7:34 AM CDT on January 22

This is an example how fantasy football has made people lose all sense of what the game of football is about.

Exactly.

posted by yerfatma at 8:05 AM CDT on January 22

Yeah, I could just envision the Patriots' War Room that draft day, realizing that arguably the best clutch quarterback the game has ever seen is sitting there through the third round, the fourth round, the fifth round, yet they continue to say, "Ah, don't worry about it. He'll be around in the sixth."

posted by dyams at 8:54 AM CDT on January 22

This site needs an lmfao button, Dyams.

posted by rcade at 9:01 AM CDT on January 22

As for Gaffney becoming a bigger focus of the offense next year, that's quite possible. When Brady can make a guy like Reche Caldwell look good, as he did in previous years, he can make practically anyone look good.

posted by dyams at 7:42 AM CST on January 22


The biggest reason why I think Gaffney will break out in the Super Bowl and go on to become a true star in 2008 is because he has taken to wholeheartedly drinking the Belichek coolaide (be prepared for every game, wait for your opportunity and take advantage when you get it). It is obvious that Brady is investing more trust in Gaffney because of the situations when he has looked for Gaffney this season (tough, need to gain a first down or score situations).

posted by Cave_Man at 9:54 AM CDT on January 22

I don't know if I'm buying into the "greatest Team ever." But I'm pretty convinced it's the best passing offensive ever (with apologies to Bill Walsh and Joe Montana).

First, let me ask this: if they do win in arizona, to finish 19-0, will you then acknowlege them as being the best team ever?

No, I made the original statement about the best passing offensive ever assuming that they win the Super Bowl. If they don't win, then I don't think "best ever" applies in any category.

I doubt that i'll ever put brady ahead of montana, but i do think they are in the same conversation.

Much as it pains me to say, I would agree with that.

This is an example how fantasy football has made people lose all sense of what the game of football is about.

Exactly.

I just wanted to add another ringing endorsement to that. In my own experience, fantasy football is mostly for people who don't find football interesting enough on its own merits.

posted by cjets at 11:40 AM CDT on January 22

According to Michael Holley's book Patriot Reign, there were already discussions about making the swap. It sounds like it would have happened that season, just not in Week 2.

posted by yerfatma at 11:54 AM CDT on January 22

Yeah like Bellicheat is a well-grounded indivdual!

Who would have ever thought taping one of the worst teams in football would lead to a berth in the Super Bowl and a possible undefeated season? Just imagine what they would have accomplished if they would have filmed a good team!

posted by dyams at 12:40 PM CDT on January 22

B10, i am admitting that my bias toward the 49ers will prohibit me from ever putting him ahead. If he wins more rings than joe, and continues to put up astronomical numbers, the football fan in me will know he is better, but the 49er fan will resist.

posted by elijahin24 at 3:39 PM CDT on January 22

Don't forget the Badgers.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 5:50 PM CDT on January 23

And whoever said I don't understand football, that is ridiculous man. I played football in high school. Anyway, when I said Moss was a bum, I meant that they don't need him to catch in order to win. He's a good blocker, but not as good as Hines Ward of the Steelers. Also when I said Brady was good, I didn't even know he was a 6th round draft pick. That's crazy man, more props to him, he is now a superstar. I don't know anything about how to even play fantasy football and I don't want to. It's just numbers and which players to pick which is pretty boring.

posted by Scars at 7:07 PM CDT on January 23

I would like to feed your fingertips to the wolverines.

posted by goddam at 11:02 PM CDT on January 23

Uh, I believe the Badgers beat the Wolverines this past fall! HaHaHa!!

posted by LeftyPower at 7:48 AM CDT on January 27