FanDuel - WFBC

October 24, 2007

Manny Ramirez, as Himself: All right, then, be it resolved: Manny Ramirez knows more about baseball than you do.

posted by justgary to baseball at 02:43 AM - 39 comments

Amen.

posted by tieguy at 06:51 AM on October 24

And this post on the young Manny is incredible. Go read.

posted by tieguy at 07:45 AM on October 24

I like Manny. That's a great story, tieguy. Everyone on the Sox and from his high school talk about what a hardworker he is. Folks are too hard on him, especially in regards to his rightly pointing out that it wouldn't be the end of the world and they would be back next year. The way the announcers were carrying on about his long (very long) single seemed to be a little much. It didn't even seem to matter that it ended up making no difference.

posted by bperk at 09:31 AM on October 24

he's the best right handed hitter of his day and maybe more. he's just a kid enjoying the game of baseball,in a man's body.30 to 40 home runs and 100+ rbi's a year,he can say whatever he wants

posted by jojopapa at 09:36 AM on October 24

Great stuff tieguy. Thanks for that.

posted by hawkguy at 09:52 AM on October 24

Interesting article, its reference to "they probably should know better than to worship the forms of the game, instead of its soul". Is that a reference to the Colorado Rockies and their quest to bring religion into the game?

posted by americanleague at 10:34 AM on October 24

In my opinion, another example of Manny being stupider like a fox was how he rested his body in the last weeks of the season, with the ambiguous painful oblique muscle. His body in the playoffs is just a little bit fresher than guys who didn't get any days off. He is fun to watch, I just really wish he would hustle on the fly balls.

posted by vito90 at 10:50 AM on October 24

Link 1: Just about every comment in that article was insulting. Link 2: Lazy writer, been written a thousand time before. Link 4: Thanks. Hadn't read that one.

posted by justgary at 11:53 AM on October 24

Gotta love the Man-Ram. Phenomenal. Rack 'em. Oh please kill me.

posted by THX-1138 at 12:12 PM on October 24

Link 2: How was that not Shank? How? I just lost a buck. To myself!

posted by YukonGold at 12:48 PM on October 24

Link 4: Amazing perspective on free agents lost. All of whom I voted at the time (and even now to an extent) to keep.

  • With the compensatory picks for Cabrera, the Red Sox drafted outfielder Jacoby Ellsbury and highly regarded Triple-A infielder Jed Lowrie.
  • With the two compensatory draft picks [for Derek Lowe], the Sox took reliever Craig Hansen, now at Triple-A Pawtucket, and Double-A pitcher Michael Bowden.
  • [With Pedro Martinez] They also scored with the compensatory pick received for the Mets’ signing by taking future top-of-the-rotation hurler Clay Buchholz
All can probably be considered top 10 prospects.

posted by YukonGold at 12:57 PM on October 24

he's the best right handed hitter of his day and maybe more. I'm a fan of hyperbole as much as the next guy, but c'mon. There's this guy who bats righty for the Yankees, plays third base, you might have heard about him.

posted by HATER 187 at 01:08 PM on October 24

I'm a fan of hyperbole as much as the next guy, but c'mon. How is it hyperbole? Manny's stats match up quite well with arod, sometimes better. Arod is younger, and looks like he's going to age better, and he'll probably leave manny's stats behind, but looking at their careers at this point they're very comparable.

posted by justgary at 01:28 PM on October 24

Arod is younger, and looks like he's going to age better, and he'll probably leave manny's stats behind These were the primary points I was going to cite in my counter post. I just have a problem with the semantics of jojo's statement. Perhaps One of the best hitters of his era. would be better. I think after the MVP awards and monster year he is coming off of Alex Rodriguez has proven himself the best hitter of his era. I would save the and maybe more until his career has wrapped up.

posted by HATER 187 at 01:42 PM on October 24

Manny's stats match up quite well with arod, sometimes better. Arod is younger, and looks like he's going to age better, and he'll probably leave manny's stats behind, but looking at their careers at this point they're very comparable. There's a certain right-handed batting fella who wears the birds on the bat and also appears on that all-time OPS+ list (quite a bit higher than Manny and A-Rod for that matter) who just might have a place in this conversation as well.

posted by holden at 01:47 PM on October 24

Yes, agreed - Pujols and ARod are phemonenal righthanded hitters - who have won MVPs and generally been lauded appropriately. It seems Manny is a bit more devisive, and, IMHO, is generally underappreciated in the annals of baseball lore. Because his career numbers are among the best ever for righties - he's had a HoF career and, well, generationally speaking, one that should be properly understood in the correct context. He's a bad man. And a loafer. But he produces on an otherworldly level.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 02:57 PM on October 24

For some reason, the idea of a loafer (the shoe) running (ambling) along in the outfield or even better, at the plate wearing a batting helmet strikes me as hilarious. Someone should do a film of inanimate objects playing baseball.

posted by apoch at 03:21 PM on October 24

Comparing Pujols to Manny is a compliment to both men and I wholehardily agree. Both are feared hitters and little boys at heart for their love of the game. Thanks holden

posted by brickman at 03:45 PM on October 24

Manny Ramirez is one of the best hitters, right or left, in the modern era of baseball. There are hitters that are better now, like Arod and Pujols, but, if my money was on the line and I could pick a hitter to rely on in the clutch, I would pick Manny. Whether he does enough to get into the Hall of Fame is an open issue. I like him as a player, because even with his year in and year out monster stats, his name has not been associated with drugs or performance enhancing substances that I can recall. He also is an unappreciated hard worker who puts in sweat time when reporters are busy having breakfast and lunch.

posted by Cave_Man at 04:16 PM on October 24

There are hitters that are better now, like Arod and Pujols, but, if my money was on the line and I could pick a hitter to rely on in the clutch, I would pick Manny. Hold on. I thought Super-Clutchy-Captain-Handsome-Star Derek Jeter was "the man". Or Big-Papi-Crushy-Ball-McFlyFar David Ortiz was "the man". Can I get an official ruling on who the clutchiest-clutch-that-ever-clutched is?

posted by grum@work at 05:28 PM on October 24

Cave_Man: Whether he does enough to get into the Hall of Fame is an open issue.
What?! Oh my god, man, no- I don't think it's remotely an open issue that he's a future hall of famer! He's got the 10th highest OPS in history over his career- if you look at that top 20 list, it's all big-time Hall of Famer types, the "no questions asked", with only a couple of exceptions being active players like Thome and Helton and Berkman. If he retired after this World Series, his numbers are already HOF-worthy: baseball-reference puts him slightly below the average HOF in the black-ink test, but his other HOF monitor numbers are through the roof. At 35, he's got 490HR, 471 doubles, 1604 RBI with a .313 career average. Since he'll likely play at least 3-4 more years, and has been historically fairly healthy (despite that oblique injury that he might have nursed to end this season, he still played in 133 games this year- and only twice since his rookie year has he played in fewer than 130 games), those counting stats will only get more gaudy. Barring a catastrophic injury, he'll likely finish with 600+ HR, and possibly 2000+ RBI. He's a perennial All-Star, silver-slugger, a batting champion, and I don't think anyone in or around baseball wouldn't consider him one of the greatest hitters of his generation. Is he as good as Bonds, as A-Rod, or even Griffey? No, probably not if only because two of those guys were all-world fielders to go along with their production, and Bonds is probably the greatest offensive threat in the history of baseball. But Manny Ramirez is a sure-thing Hall of Famer, and I don't think there's any serious debate to the contrary.
grum@work: Can I get an official ruling on who the clutchiest-clutch-that-ever-clutched is?
Actually, I think Ortiz is probably your best bet for clutchiest-clutch of this decade at least, and a serious contender for clutchiest-ever. Jeter never had great clutch stats, that was just McCarver jizzing on you through your tv screen. Manny Ramirez isn't as "clutch" a hitter as Ortiz, since Ortiz has actual, serious statistical clout in that area: some of his clutch hit stats (walkoff hits/HR, late inning performance with RISP, etc) are insane, and had sabermetricians scratching their heads and revisiting the "there's no such thing as clutch" drawing board. Ramirez is probably a better hitter than Ortiz, but we might say otherwise in 3 years; Ortiz just gets better and better and better, and he's all but inarguably the best clutch hitter of the decade. However, he's by no means a HOF player (yet) like Ramirez. Like RBI, clutch is a situational stat: Ortiz has likely been at the plate in more key moments than most players, but he's delivered some amazing hits, most notably that 2004 ALCS, and his 2006 season with all those walk-off hits, etc.

posted by hincandenza at 05:36 PM on October 24

Actually, I think Ortiz is probably your best bet for clutchiest-clutch of this decade at least, and a serious contender for clutchiest-ever. I'm not sure you can say that. He has certainly recieved the most recognition for his clutch plays but I'm sure there have been many players through the years who have made similar plays. The extensive media coverage and the existance of the internet have just brought more fame to Ortiz's clutch hits.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 06:01 PM on October 24

Can I get an official ruling on who the clutchiest-clutch-that-ever-clutched is? I don't have an answer for you. But you can mark Arod off your list.

posted by justgary at 06:09 PM on October 24

Other examples of Manny's greatness include:

  1. #1 all time in post-season home runs
  2. #2 all time in grand slams (behind Lou Gehrig)
  3. Has two sons named Manny Jr.
Also:
When I asked his teammate David Ortiz, himself a borderline folk hero, how he would describe Ramirez, he replied, "As a crazy motherfucker." Then he pointed at my notebook and said, "You can write it down just like that: 'David Ortiz says Manny is a crazy motherfucker.'" ... "Manny is at the far end of the as-bad-as-you-can-get-in-the-field spectrum." ... In the outfield and on the base paths, Ramirez can seem oafish and clumsy, and many of the baseball-related incidents for which he is best known reflect a chronic absent-mindedness, but I prefer the most Roy Hobbsian anecdote, in which he hits a home run with a broken bat--it was broken before he swung, that is, and he used it anyway because he was fond of it--since it illustrates both his enthusiasm and his preternatural gift for hitting.

posted by kirkaracha at 06:32 PM on October 24

#1 all time in post-season home runs #3 all time in post-season strike outs (tied with David Justice and Reggie Sanders)

posted by tommytrump at 07:20 PM on October 24

#1 in hair.

posted by jerseygirl at 07:25 PM on October 24

#1 in hair. Really? I gotta think Oscar Gamble has to rank higher, just on volume alone.

posted by grum@work at 08:25 PM on October 24

Modern day, grum.

posted by jerseygirl at 08:36 PM on October 24

but I'm sure there have been many players through the years who have made similar plays. Please don't say crap like that; have a counter-example. From my third link above: "It was Ortiz’s second walk-off hit of the series and his third of the postseason; no other player in history had hit more than two in his entire career." So no, no other players have similar plays.

posted by yerfatma at 09:38 PM on October 24

Modern day, grum. Yeah, comparing Manny's hair to someone from the 70s is like comparing a modern pitcher to a pitcher from the dead ball era. It just isn't fair.

posted by tieguy at 09:46 PM on October 24

It looks like Manny's batting helmet may have been damaged in a fire. I hope they can get him a replacement. #3 all time in post-season strike outs (tied with David Justice and Reggie Sanders) Oooh, burn. Sluggers always strike out a lot.

posted by kirkaracha at 09:59 PM on October 24

"It looks like Manny's batting helmet may have been damaged in a fire. I hope they can get him a replacement." The stuff on Manny's helmet is probaly pine tar. Manny apparently likes his batting helmet, looks like it has been in use for years.

posted by Cave_Man at 10:41 PM on October 24

Yeah, it is pine tar; the whole team did it in 2004. Orlando Cabrera still does the same thing with his Angels helmet.

posted by tieguy at 10:48 PM on October 24

Clutchiest? Apparently they give out a trophy for that now.

posted by drumdance at 10:27 AM on October 25

Wait just a minute. A-Rod is the clutchiest player of the year? Or most clutch, or whatever the hell it's called? Isn't he golfing right now? Or going to strip clubs with that blonde gal? Anyway, isn't he NOT playing in the World Series (again)? I, of course, get mixed up when it comes to differentiating shit from shinola, but my estimation put A-Rod's performance a few points below clutch this season. Postseason he batted .267 with 4 hits and 1 RBI. Post season would be where I think you would find the definitive clutch perfomance. His appeared to be less than clutchy.

posted by THX-1138 at 11:33 AM on October 25

clutchiness. It's a lot like truthiness.

posted by tieguy at 11:41 AM on October 25

Anyway, isn't he NOT playing in the World Series (again)? To be fair, the Yankees wouldn't have even made the playoffs if he wasn't so super-duper-clutcherrific during season when he was (almost) single-handedly dragging the Yankees to respectability. Just ask Papelbon and Chris Ray about his clutchtasticness.

posted by grum@work at 04:59 PM on October 25

Right now the only "clutchy" thing related to A-Rod is the aforementioned blonde. I'd ask Papelbon, but he seems to be busy.

posted by THX-1138 at 07:34 PM on October 25

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