2007 is the 50th anniversary of the Golden Glove award.: To celebrate, Rawlings is having fans vote on who they think the greatest fielders of the past fifty years are at each position.
posted by Ying Yang Mafia to baseball at 08:23 PM - 45 comments
Very nice link' especially because us fans who remember can vote for earlier stars as well as the guys from the 80s & 90s.
posted by sickleguy at 08:54 PM on March 06
This is freakin sweet! Thanks ying yang.
posted by brainofdtrain at 09:25 PM on March 06
Shortstops (Select 1): Aparicio, Luis Belanger, Mark Concepcion, Dave Jeter, Derek Smith, Ozzie Vizquel, Omar Joe Sheehan said it best at Baseball Prospectus: "Ozzie Smith isn't just the greatest defensive shortstop ever--he’s the greatest defensive player in baseball history...It’s adorable that they listed five other guys on the ballot with him, especially Jeter, who’s got a LaToya Jackson-in-"We Are the World" thing going on here.
posted by grum@work at 11:10 PM on March 06
Nice! I want it on record that I voted for Greg Maddux, if only so he won't come burn my house down and eat my children. And I don't even have children. Clemente, Mays, Ozzie Smith & Brooks Robinson seem like sure things, but the rest of the lists seem a little thin (Agreed on Jeter being there solely to appease the listeners of Mike & the Mad Dog, and while I love Larry Walker, he doesn't even belong on the same list as Torii Hunter & Jim Edmonds, let alone the true greats.) Although I did throw one to Devon White, just because.
posted by chicobangs at 11:18 PM on March 06
My ballot: Pitcher:Gibson, Bob Catcher:Freehan, Bill First Base:Power, Vic Second Base:Mazeroski, Bill Third Base:Robinson, Brooks Shortstop:Belanger, Mark Outfield:Blair, Paul Outfield:Evans, Dwight Outfield:Yastrzemski, Carl I'm old enough to have seen every one of them play, at least on TV. Forgive the Boston bias in the OF, but Yaz could play the wall in Fenway better than anyone I've seen. Dewey Evans's arm and Paul Blair's ability to get to anything in center sold me on the rest. For the rest of the positions, I'll accept an argument on all but 3B. If Brooks Robinson isn't the best who ever played the hot corner, I don't know who is. Nice post, YYM
posted by Howard_T at 11:19 PM on March 06
"Come back tomorrow and vote again!" - o.k., thought this was cool until I saw that message after I cast my ballot. Now it appears to me to be nothing but a clever marketing dupe.
posted by danjel at 05:17 AM on March 07
As opposed to all those companies that do things for free.
posted by yerfatma at 05:41 AM on March 07
No love for 8-time Gold Glove winner Barry Bonds? Forgive the Boston bias in the OF Sorry. Tried to. Can't. Evans would do well to be in the top five on that list with regard to arms -- I don't see how anyone who saw enough of Maz to vote for him (my pick, too) could possibly overlook Clemente. Since the outfield selection doesn't require a player at each position, there is no way anyone who was strictly a left fielder should make the top-3. Mark Langston and Ron Guidry deserved to at least appear on the ballot at pitcher, but it's hard to pick against Maddux. Kaat is a close second on my list. Gibson struck out too many batters to win. Pudge Rodriguez is pretty much a run-away at catcher -- easily, easily the best defensive catcher ever -- but my senitmental vote goes to Jim Sundberg. Rey Ordonez was a spectacular defensive player who would have been on this list easily if he just could have hit enough to stick around. As for Jeter, well, I feel just terrible for the poor Prospectus devotees who have to suffer this indignity, but he belongs on the list. He's better than Belanger, who, while a very good shortstop, enjoyed the luxury of being pretty much uncontested in the American League during the '70s. Freddie Patek wasn't exactly lighting up the highlight reels.
posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 07:35 AM on March 07
Actually, Freddie Patek was the starting SS for the AL in an All-Star game, maybe 1977 or 1978. Having Jeter on the list is pathetic. My sister, who is now 39 and about 30 pounds overweight, still has better range than Jeter. Are you one of these fans who discount every SABR stat by saying that you have to see Jeter play to realize his greatness?
posted by whitedog65 at 07:59 AM on March 07
I don't go back very far, but it would be hard for me to imagine many outfielders better than Andrew Jones and Griffey Jr in his prime. Ozzie, Pudge, and Maddux would seem to be locks in my opinion. I'd like to see you guys lists for first base. A few come to mind for me, but I doubt any of them would get many votes....Andres Gallaraga, Mark Grace
posted by louisville_slugger at 08:05 AM on March 07
Paul Blair was a great fielder. He covered ground like mad, and played such a short center field he took away singles, not just extra-base hits. Thanks for putting this link on, YYM. I'm such a huge advocate for the role of fielding in baseball (something that gets overlooked as people get more and more involved in the offense-only hobby of fantasy baseball). The role of a great fielder, especially in the outfield, can really mess with a hitter's mind. When you have guys who can flat-out go get it, clogging up the gaps with ease, it starts making opponents wonder just what they have to do to find a hole.
posted by dyams at 08:35 AM on March 07
Those are the best 3 pitchers they can come up with?LOL LOL LOL Not even a choice for lefty righty?If i can only pick one i'm going w/Juan Marichal!Outfield is easy,Mays,Clemente,Suzuki.Hands down!Bench at catcher,Snow at 1st,Maz at 2nd,Ozzie at short & Brooks at 3rd!But there should be a list of pitchers as long as for outfielders as well as at least 2 choices to vote for!
posted by mdavidsf at 08:50 AM on March 07
Mazeroski is better than Robbie Alomar? Really? Please to explain.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:55 AM on March 07
I am a youngin' so some of these choices are based what little I have seen or heard about some of the older players. Catcher: Ivan "Pudge" Rodriguez-blocks the plate well, excellent pitch calling, nastiest arm on a catcher Pitcher:Greg Maddox-I make this pick to appease the whore slayer. Let's hope no ladies of the night end up in his trunk should he feel miffed by his exclusion. First Base:Don Mattingly-my favorite baseball player EVER. Second Base:Roberto Alomar-despite his suckiness with the Mets, he was hailed as the best all time second baseman for most of his career Shortstop:Ozzie Smith-no brainer on this one Third Base:Scott Rolen-I like his crazy high Range Factor Outfield:Willie Mays-over the back catch. Word. Outfield:Ken Griffey Jr.-Uber fast and willing to sacrifice his body to make plays Outfielder:Torii Hunter-I didn't who else to pick and I hate Andruw Jones
posted by HATER 187 at 09:10 AM on March 07
Here goes: Gibson, P; Bench, C; Mattingly, 1B; Alomar, 2B; Smith, SS; Robinson, 3B; Blair, Mays and Clemente, OF. I agree with Weedy; Alomar was absolutely stellar. Mattingly was also one of my all-time favorites, but his fielding was effortless and (seemingly) flawless. Bench was just all-around solid and the anchor of the Big Red Machine. The Orioles of Brooks, Belanger, Blair, etc., were fantastic teams. I've already given my impressions of Blair, and there's no way I'm not picking Willie Mays and Roberto Clemente, two of the best all-around talents the game will ever know.
posted by dyams at 09:26 AM on March 07
Since the outfield selection doesn't require a player at each position, there is no way anyone who was strictly a left fielder should make the top-3. I'm assuming this is a reference to Yaz, not Dewey, but I don't see why it must be so. He played in a left field that is a very different challenge for fielders. That's at least a mitigating factor, if not an advantage over someone like (for example and not to pick on) Willie Wilson who I remember as a terrific fielder, but who played in a cookie-cutter stadium on turf. Would you skip Carl Crawford on an All-Star ballot? My personal bias is against 3 centerfielders (or centrefielders if we're including Devon White in the mix (I would (me too))), simply because it's unusable in day-to-day life. It'd be like having 3 head chefs in a kitchen. Can't function without the sous chef, prep cook, etc. Kitchens, etc.
posted by yerfatma at 09:38 AM on March 07
Are you one of these fans who discount every SABR stat by saying that you have to see Jeter play to realize his greatness? Are you saying you don't want to have to watch him to make a valid judgment? Mazeroski is better than Robbie Alomar? Really? Please to explain. No question that Alomar is in the discussion of best all-around second basemen, a discussion that would not include Maz. And Robbie almost certainly had the best range of any second baseman I've seen. But when you focus only on defense, and consider things like quick feet, glove-to-hand exchange, arm strength, etc. I think you have to go with Maz. Plus, Maz had an intangible characteristic (which, by being "intangible," nobody wants to hear about, but I'll state it anyway) -- he had tree trunk legs that struck fear into many guys with a notion of sliding into second. He could leap if he had to, but when he stayed planted he was immovable, and players went more timidly into second on Maz than on any other second baseman in history. He created a lot of double plays on that feature alone. My personal bias is against 3 centerfielders...simply because it's unusable in day-to-day life. If the ballot asked the voter to create the best defensive team, clearly you're basis of decision making would be different. I am interpreting the purpose of the ballot to be a selection of the best individual defensive performers at all positions, with the three outfield spots lumped together. Since the Gold Glove Award itself works under that premise, I think it's safe to do so here. Yaz was great in Fenway, but take him out of that park (which you did 81 times every year) and there is no way his defense measures up to inclusion onto a short list of the outfielders listed. For the record, my list is Mays, Clemente and Ichiro. I have seen footage of plays Clemente made that I was certain I would never see duplicated in my lifetime. Ichiro is the only one who has come close.
posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 10:10 AM on March 07
Yaz was great in Fenway, but take him out of that park . . . and there is no way his defense measures up I can't argue with that, but how far do we go down that level of abstraction? If I take Yaz off the Red Sox entirely, is he a Hall of Famer if his 1967 is spent toiling for some second-division team? I'm not going to argue for his inclusion into the all-time defensive squad or any all-time, first squad because I think some of his value was intangible. If you intend to show me park-neutral, era-adjusted defensive stats, I'd say we're completely through the looking glass, Alice.
posted by yerfatma at 12:11 PM on March 07
If you intend to show me park-neutral, era-adjusted defensive stats, I'd say we're completely through the looking glass, Alice. I'm not basing it on some theoretical. I'm saying in 50% of the actual games he played, Yaz (who was, still, a great fielder in any park) just didn't measure up to some of the other-worldly, all-terrain fielders on the list. His record is enhanced by having superior adjustment in an enigmatic park, but there are a good number of players who quite obviously had/have better range, a better arm, and more of the "Ozzie" factor defensively than Yaz. He is certainly not close to the worst on the list. I think it's unfortunate that Jim Edmonds is on there. Edmonds has made some of the most spectacular catches I could ever hope to see, and that play where he leapt with his back to home and grabbed the ball before falling onto the warning track is the best I have ever seen. But he is a master of turning the mundane into the sensational. He has a terrible first step and takes horrible routes to balls. His gymnastics are tremendous compensation for an otherwise poor defensive resume. (Thanks, YYM, for posting this. I so needed some good baseball discussion today.)
posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 12:34 PM on March 07
Seeing Omar play everyday with the Indians, it's hard to believe there was anyone better-what everyone saw on ESPN's webgems, Cleveland fans saw every game. I also love the Pirates, so it's hard not to pick Maz at 2nd, but seeing Omar and Robbie play together for a number of years was an unbelievable experiance.
posted by JDeV at 12:52 PM on March 07
Crafty - you saw Mazeroksi play? I can't accept the conclusion. He couldn't be better than Alomar. It's not humanly possible. There wasn't a single aspect of the defensive side of the game that Alomar did poorly. Alomar had no generational peers. The margin between him and the second best guy was wider than Ozzie to his peers (though Ozzie is clearly the best defensive player I ever saw). Agreed on Edmonds - spectacular, but not because he was better than anyone else - just that he was/is spectacular. Devon White was ten times the outfielder he is and White isn't close to Mays, Ichiro, Yaz, Griffey, Jones, etc., etc.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:46 PM on March 07
Devon White was ten times the outfielder [Edmonds] is You know how you can tell? Devon White almost never made one of those diving plays. He was already there.
posted by yerfatma at 02:18 PM on March 07
its just gonna end up another popularity contest, and someone whos been playing for maybe 10 years will win...maybe.
posted by Redoh77 at 02:22 PM on March 07
this is the coolest post I've ever seen I learned about this last week well I just voted for my favorites only one cub included the ryno everybody take care
posted by luther70 at 02:29 PM on March 07
Crafty - you saw Mazeroksi play? Not live, but I've seen enough video footage of him that I feel I can make a reasonable assessment of the kind of player he was. My view is reinforced --and, on the point about his tree-trunk legs, totally founded -- by comments other ballplayers have made about him. I agree that Alomar did nothing less than great. I just pick Maz. I'm an intangibles guy, you know. Devon White almost never made one of those diving plays. He was already there. The same is often said of Joe DiMaggio. This discussion would be so much more complicated if the Gold Glove had been around longer.
posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 02:52 PM on March 07
Mazeroski is better than Robbie Alomar? Really? Please to explain. Bill Mazeroski made it into the hall of fame ENTIERLY on his defense. He's one of the weakest (non-pitcher) hitters in the HOF. The comment I posted from Sheehan about Ozzie had a part removed (marked by the elipses) that stated even though Maz is the 2nd greatest defensive player of all time, Ozzie still laps him (statistically). Second Base:Roberto Alomar-despite his suckiness with the Mets, he was hailed as the best all time second baseman for most of his career *spit take* Hey, as a Blue Jays fan, I remember the wonderful heydays of Alomar. That said, he's definitely a top 10 2nd baseman, but he's a fair distance away from being the best. That spot goes to (in my opinion) Joe Morgan (though some would suggset Eddie Collins, Rogers Hornsby or Jackie Robinson).
posted by grum@work at 05:21 PM on March 07
The same is often said of Joe DiMaggio. That's what I was thinking of as I typed it. I never even disliked Devon White; it just seemed predestined any ball hit into the gap was going to find its way into his glove.
posted by yerfatma at 05:59 PM on March 07
I'd like to see you guys lists for first base. A few come to mind for me, but I doubt any of them would get many votes....Andres Gallaraga, Mark Grace My vote for first base has to go for either Leon Durham or Bill Buckner. ;)
posted by danjel at 09:54 PM on March 07
In my opinion there are a lot of great players at each spot. The ONE who stands out for defense among all positions is Brooks Robinson at third. All the others may be debatable. If there was a vote on the BEST defesive player ever, regardless of position, he would be the first one to come to my mind. I agree Mark Grace should have gotten a nomination at first base, he would be my choice if on the ballot.
posted by urall cloolis at 10:07 PM on March 07
I think it was a mistake to group all outfielders together. Why have separate infield positions? Let's call it middle and corner infielders. We can have 4 shortstops. Reminds me when I was a child and built a lineup out of baseball cards. 1-9 hit 300 with 40 HRs. I didn't care that I had a third baseman playing short. Yaz is an acceptable choice as a left fielder. As a generic outfielder, no. Jeter can play on my team anytime. Great player, but he doesn't belong on the list. Not even close.
posted by justgary at 11:44 PM on March 07
That said, he's definitely a top 10 2nd baseman, but he's a fair distance away from being the best. That spot goes to (in my opinion) Joe Morgan (though some would suggset Eddie Collins, Rogers Hornsby or Jackie Robinson). I'm guessing you are talking about overall rating, since you argued quite reasonably about Maz on pure defense. Tough to leave Ryno out of that conversation, who stands up reasonably well with Morgan offensively, and who brings some outrageous defense to the party. Certainly nothing wrong with picking Morgan, but I think I would lean toward Hornsby or Jackie. I would love to see what Jackie would do today, without all the other baggage he carried through his career. I never even disliked Devon White; it just seemed predestined any ball hit into the gap was going to find its way into his glove. I am really amazed he got so little consideration by the Hall of Fame voters. I don't think he belonged in, but he definitely deserved more votes than many of the guys ahead of him. Yaz is an acceptable choice as a left fielder. As a generic outfielder, no. Interesting article by Paul White, written a few years ago, on left fielders and the Gold Glove Award. Jeter can play on my team anytime. Great player, but he doesn't belong on the list. Not even close. Here's the list of multiple Gold Glove winners at short: Ozzie Smith - 13 Omar Vizquel - 11 Luis Aparicio - 9 Mark Belanger - 8 Dave Concepcion - 5 Tony Fernandez - 4 Alan Trammell - 4 Derek Jeter - 3 Barry Larkin - 3 Roy McMillan - 3 Rey Ordonez - 3 Gene Alley - 2 Larry Bowa - 2 Don Kessinger - 2 Edgar Renteria - 2 Cal Ripken - 2 Alex Rodriguez - 2 Zoilo Versalles - 2 Maury Wills - 2 Looking at this list, I think you can see why Jeter's on there. He's won three in a row, and Renteria is the only other active shortstop on the list. I don't think anyone is going to argue that if A-Rod had stayed at short that spot on the ballot would be his, but I don't think you can say Jeter is "not close" to belonging there. That said, anyone who votes for him is either three years old or an idiot.
posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 12:51 AM on March 08
I don't think you can say Jeter is "not close" to belonging there. Derek Jeter is not close to belonging there. Having suffered through Edgar Renteria's Lost Season at Fenway, I feel confident he's a much better fielder than Jeter. The only person on that list that I've personally seen who Jeter might compare favorably to is Rey Ordonez, who was more flash than actual defensive stopper.
posted by yerfatma at 05:37 AM on March 08
As several realize, the Jeter thing is a moot point because Ozzie is a runaway. I will not hold against Ozzie the fact that his (clearly ghostwritten) children's book, Hello Fredbird, a Christmas gift for my one-year old son and one of his favorites, is pretty awful and the fact that he allows a petty feud with Tony LaRussa (who inexplicably thought that Royce Clayton was the second coming and therefore deserved playing time instead of giving Ozzie a farewell season) to keep him from being involved with the team. (The Cardinals living Hall of Famers -- Gibson, Schoendienst, Musial (although not so much because of his age), Brock, and others -- and a number of non-HoF ex-players are regulars at Busch, some of those individuals during the season, but almost all of them during the postseason. I am pretty sure Ozzie was at his sports bar (in St. Louis, mind you) during Game 5 of this past World Series.) One thing about Jeter v Ripken in terms of shortstop prowess that I saw written elsewhere is that Jeter is currently playing in an AL where the only other multiple GG-winning SS is Jeter's teammate at 3B, whereas Ripken played in an AL where Fernandez and Trammell had 4 GG each. I think that argument is a little flawed in that Omar Vizquel had a stranglehold on the SS Gold Glove through the first 5+ years of Jeter's career (and it's further weakened by the fact that, after digging into it further, I see that Ripken won his 2 GG when Fernandez was in the NL and Trammell was on the downside of his career in playing in just over 100 games in one season and less than 30 in the other), but it does merit mention that Jeter's GGs have largely come at a time when the competition has not been great. Tallest midget and all that.
posted by holden at 06:37 AM on March 08
Jeter can play on my team anytime. Great player, but he doesn't belong on the list. Not even close. Jeter will obviously never be at the top of that very tough shortstop list, but let's not go acting like he's any type of slouch when it comes to fielding. Yes I know he doesn't have the greatest range, but he has always been someone who is in the right place at the right time to make big plays, whether it's his cut-off-and-toss to the plate to catch the runner in the playoffs, or diving into the seats, face-first, to catch a foul ball. The guy's been a constant on some very successful teams, all while watching a revolving-door of second and third basemen.
posted by dyams at 08:40 AM on March 08
but let's not go acting like he's any type of slouch when it comes to fielding We can't? He's certainly a fine fielder now, but it was not always so. Shouldn't all the years count in the evaluation of All-Time Best Fielders? If not, how thin can we slice the time period? Because I might make the list for this crazy throw-the-glove-at-it play I made in a beer league softball game a few years back. Broke my damn pinkie too. Wasn't right for half a year.
posted by yerfatma at 10:56 AM on March 08
Because I might make the list for this crazy throw-the-glove-at-it play I made in a beer league softball game a few years back. Broke my damn pinkie too. Wasn't right for half a year. If you actually threw your glove (it left contact with your hand), that's against the (baseball) rules and each runner/batter gets the base they are approaching and the next base. If you mean "flung your arm out in desperation while diving", then kudos. Devon White almost never made one of those diving plays. He was already there. Even when he was making his most famous play (that catch against the wall in the 1992 World Series), he still didn't look like he was hurried. In fact, he may be the most graceful outfielder I've ever seen. It was like watching someone perform ballet...
posted by grum@work at 11:32 AM on March 08
You know what I meant, that my body is such I finely-tuned instrument of awesomeness that my arm had retrieved the glove before I even became aware of how terrific I was.
posted by yerfatma at 11:52 AM on March 08
but it does merit mention that Jeter's GGs have largely come at a time when the competition has not been great. Tallest midget and all that. Jeter has beaten out at least one Gold Glove shortstop in every year he's won the award. He beat out two in 2005 (Cabrera and Renteria). The reason Ripken was competing with Gold Glove shortstops was because he wasn't a Gold Glove shortstop. Duh. That argument don't make no sense -- you're going to have to find another use for those midgets. Because I might make the list for this crazy throw-the-glove-at-it play I made in a beer league softball game a few years back. Broke my damn pinkie too. You kids reading at home -- and, really, I cannot stress this enough -- if you're going to throw your glove at a ball, make sure you remove your hand from it first. And I would argue you're still not right. Oh. You meant the pinkie?
posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 12:40 PM on March 08
WOW!!! a post with lots of difference of opinion and NO FLAMES. This has to be the SpoFi 'post of the year' so far. Crafty, you make a good point about Clemente. It was indeed an oversight on my part. In picking Yaz and Evans for the outfield, I was thinking a separation of the 3 positions. I believe this should be the case in the actual voting too, but would be difficult to do because many OFs play more than one spot. Evans's defensive credentials include more than just a great arm. He could get to a lot of balls, and (here we go again with the peculiar park) Fenway's RF is both big and difficult to play. I guess all of us "Rounders" junkies just can't wait until April. Again, on Mazeroski, He's one of the weakest (non-pitcher) hitters in the HOF. Except for just one moment.
posted by Howard_T at 03:17 PM on March 08
You kids reading at home -- and, really, I cannot stress this enough -- if you're going to throw your glove at a ball, make sure you remove your hand from it first. Jim Abbott too? Sorry, couldn't resist.
posted by tommytrump at 03:21 PM on March 08
Looking at this list, I think you can see why Jeter's on there. Well, to be honest, I guess I'm not paying attention to the details of the voting. Since it's a rawlings survey I guess gold gloves matter, and that's where the list starts and ends. In that light Jeter does belong on the list, though by number of gloves I guess he skipped someone. Throwing the gold glove award out, I'll stick by Jeter not belonging. He's made improvements, but best of all time? I saw probably 60 yankee games last year and 120 red sox games. I'll take Alex Gonzalez's glove in a heart beat.
posted by justgary at 04:49 PM on March 08
Throwing the gold glove award out It's a ballot celebrating the anniversary of the Gold Glove Award. It's stated purpose is to name the "All-Time Rawlings Gold Glove Team." You can throw the Gold Glove Award out if you want, but now we're not talking about the same thing anymore. They're letting Jeter leap over Fernandez and Trammell because he is still active and could conceivably pass them when all is said and done. And the ballot is starving for active players -- there are no active first or second basemen. I think everyone agrees with the assessment grum posted about this being Ozzie and whoever else you want to finish behind him. I'm not arguing that Jeter deserves to be in the conversation with Ozzie (or even Omar), but if you're only counting Gold Glove winners (which they are) and giving some weight to the number won (which they are) and you're going to make a list of six players, Jeter is not an unreasonable player to have on that list. I never weighed in on Slugger's request for first basemen, and quite predictably I'm going to go with Mattingly. This is based largely on being a homer, having seen the guy way more than anybody else, and the fact that when he was warming up the infielders between innings he had this routine of making the glove-to-hand exchange behind his back in such a way that in one fluid, singular motion he would catch the ball, deliver it into his hand and cast out the next ground ball. It was one of the most beautiful things to watch that I've ever witnessed in baseball.
posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 07:04 PM on March 08
It's a ballot celebrating the anniversary of the Gold Glove Award. It's stated purpose is to name the "All-Time Rawlings Gold Glove Team." You can throw the Gold Glove Award out if you want, but now we're not talking about the same thing anymore. Agreed. As I said, I glossed over that fact until reading it a second time.
posted by justgary at 07:44 PM on March 08
Here at SportsFilter, we like to keep our conversations on the topic of the article posted. If you are looking for a place where you can start your own discussion about your favorite players, perhaps you are at the wrong site. *grins very widely
posted by The Crafty Sousepaw at 07:34 AM on March 09
You one Crafty Sousepaw! Tooooooooo funny!
posted by tommytrump at 09:32 PM on March 09
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