Smithee: the "blurb" might have been my outlandish conspiracy theory in this thread, but any logical foundation to it was dismantled pretty handily by grum@work. I suggested it as a lark -- it's pretty unlikely. (That said, if it comes out that there's truth to it, I reserve the right to say I called it!) Did anyone else play "MadLibs" with the affidavit? That was fun. Other sluggers who teamed with Grimsley (note: I am making no accusations at all, just observations) -- Jim Thome, Albert Belle, Manny Ramirez, Eddie Murray, John Kruk, Darren Daulton, Dale Murphy, Garret Anderson, Jim Edmonds, Tim Salmon, Chili Davis, Tino Martinez, Bernie Williams, Jorge Posada, Mike Sweeney, Carlos Beltran, Jermaine Dye, Miguel Tejada. Please no Jeter. Please no Jeter. Please no Jeter. Please no Jeter. Mostly unrelated but interesting fact: Grimsley admitted a while ago to being the guy who broke into the umpire's dressing room to steal the illegal bat that was confiscated from Albert Belle and switch in a legal bat.
ESPN radio...is reporting that Grimsley is "naming names". Shit, read that Smokinggun.com piece. Not only is he naming names, he's making phone calls with the feds present and consenting to having the calls recorded. Grimsley knows he's fucked eight ways to Sunday, and he's going to do anything at this point to avoid a federal prison sentence that will dwarf his major league tenure. Is Grimsley any good? Career 4.76 ERA, I'd say not good enough, considering the trouble he's about to be in.
BREAKING NEWS- Grimsley admits medications were really meant for erectile dysfunction, delivered at home to avoid team mates heckling. Other players named also suffered from ED. Grimsley complains Viagra isn't covered under MLB health plan and these were the best "substitutes".
Please no Jeter. Please no Jeter. Please no Jeter. Please no Jeter. 90% of me wants him to be clean (the part that likes sports heroes and such) and 9% of me want hims to be in trouble (the part that likes to see the rabid anti-Bonds crowd commit hari-kari because their paragon of virtue has been sullied). The other 1%? It's too busy deciding if I want to even bother with this story when it comes out completely.
I think it is more likely that he is naming the names of pitchers than hitters. It seems that a disproportionate amount of players actually caught using PEDs have been pitchers. The penalties for distributing steroids are so laughably light (see BALCO) that Grimsley would have been better off taking his punishment then ratting out other players.
BPP - i also played madlibs with the list, but you forgot to list pitchers. people focus on the sluggers bc of bonds and the HR fiasco, but doesn't it make sense that pitchers (especially overworked relief pitchers?) might be using this stuff even more regularly for healing purposes? edit: damn you bperk and your fast fingers.
That said, if it comes out that there's truth to it, I reserve the right to say I called it!) And I reserve the right to declare myself "Champion of the Wrong Side of History".
hey grum, what about those of us who don't care for jeter as a bastion of righteousness and dislike bonds? the old 6-4-2?
garfield: Is Grimsley any good? You know that schmutz that you see on your car before you wash it, and after you wash your car, you dry it, polish it, you think the schmutz is gone. Then, the next morning, you go to your car, and the schmutz is back! You think, "How can that possibly still be there?" That's what Grimsley is like. I have no idea why this a righthander with his numbers has lasted a decade and a half in the Major Leagues.
BPP - i also played madlibs with the list, but you forgot to list pitchers. people focus on the sluggers bc of bonds and the HR fiasco, but doesn't it make sense that pitchers (especially overworked relief pitchers?) might be using this stuff even more regularly for healing purposes? Yeah, but sluggers are more fun. I mean, really, what overworked relief pitcher could Grimsley possibly... OH MY GOD!!! Please no Rivera. Please no Rivera. Please no Rivera. Please no Rivera. hey grum, what about those of us who don't care for jeter as a bastion of righteousness and dislike bonds? For that matter, what of those who do hold Jeter as a bastion of righteousness, but respect Bonds even in the face of all the allegations?
I have no idea why this a righthander with his numbers has lasted a decade and a half in the Major Leagues. I think we all know why how he's lasted this long in the Bigs now. Don't worry, though. Now that he has to "cycle down," his body will start to fall apart. Hey, any chance we can get a C.S.I. team to take a look underneath those black marks on that affidavit?
but respect Bonds even in the face of all the allegations? I take it you also believe in the tooth fairy, the easter bunny, and UFO's.
thanks Smithee.
No way are Jeter and Rivera going to be exposed for roids use. Christmas is, like, six months away. Did you see the part in the affadavit where Grimsley says [name deleted] was one of his best friends in baseball, and then he rats the guy out in the very next sentence? Class act.
Class act. i think the boys club rules of don't tell our secrets kind of go out the window when you're being investigated by the feds for serious charges. it's one thing to keep quiet about your buddy cheating on his girlfriend. quite a different thing with violations of those darn federal drug statutes.
I suppose you're right, Officer....
Grim(sley) mess Front page on ESPN.com. I think someone just added JP4 to an already out of control wildfire.
i think we're IN TROUBLE! ollie...what a fine mess you've gotten us into.
Worth repeating: But baseball doesn't test for HGH, because (at least for now) there is no effective test that accurately detects HGH, and because the players' union has never been willing to allow any kind of blood testing -- the only kind of testing that eventually will work for HGH. Also, if I could just make a small plea for accuracy in terminology: HGH is not a steroid. And finally, some irresponsible speculation from Slate about Pujols, Clemens, and Giambi ... from a week ago.
irunfromclones: Front page on ESPN.com. I think someone just added JP4 to an already out of control wildfire. Somewhere, Jose Canseco is saying "Burn, baby, burn!"
BullpenPro: ...Darren Daulton... It wouldn't surprise me. Daulton's been on some sort of sorta stuff for a while.
I was reading columns on this issue and once again, Jeff Passan has written an excellent one on the Grimsley matter. He chronicles the difficulty in testing for Human Growth Hormone. It's a great read on the subject. As for this whole mess, well, the lid's about to be blown off the pot, so to speak. This might be the big one everybody's been waiting for in terms of names. In this world we live in, as you all know, nothing stays unleaked for long. It's only a matter of time before the names come out.
New theme song for MLB: "Because I Got Hgh."
curtangle: New theme song for MLB: "Because I Got Hgh." LOL! Good one!
donnnnychris: I was reading columns on this issue and once again, Jeff Passan has written an excellent one on the Grimsley matter. He chronicles the difficulty in testing for Human Growth Hormone. It's a great read on the subject. Get a load of the sponsored links below Passan's excellent piece. Holy irony, Batman! (If you don't know what I mean by that, refresh the page. You'll get it.)
Note all the information in this report about the widespread use of amphetamines. Any full investigation of baseball and PEDs is going to reveal that 90% of MLB has been on illegal PEDS since 1970. People who want to see the full list of baseball players taking PEDs revealed should just take a look at the Baseball Encyclopedia and start with A. And I'm not sure what baseball can do about hgh. As others have said, there is no reliable test for it at this point. Peple have been saying that there would be a reliable test "soon" for quite a while now, and everyone is still waiting.
Thanks, L.N.--LOL at the Daulton article! Darren sounds like he's on 1 (11) all right!
Yet another on-point Passan article--thanks donnnnychris. RE: L.N.'s last post--*whistles dixie*
I'm not so sure that a ton of names are going to be publicized here. The prosecutors allowed all the BALCO defendants a plea bargain that didn't require them to release any names. Grimsley could do the same thing and they may never release those names. As for what MLB can do, I don't think they should test for HGH without a more accurate test.
A couple of comments from this article in todays NY Times: The affidavit details what Grimsley told investigators about drug use in clubhouses, including his description of coffee pots labeled "leaded" and "unleaded" to indicate which ones were laced with amphetamines. He also said that amphetamines were called "greenies" or "beans" and were widely used because "they work." According to the document, he said: "Everybody had greenies. That's like aspirin." Grimsley told investigators that "Latin players" had boxes of drugs and were major sources of amphetamines. He also said that players from teams based in California could easily buy drugs in Mexico and sell them to players from other cities. Major League Baseball has announced plans to finance a three-year, $500,000 project with U.C.L.A. that is designed to develop a urine test for human growth hormone. Dr. Gary I. Wadler, a New York University medical professor and steroid expert, criticized baseball officials for not pushing to use blood samples to test for human growth hormone. Baseball officials have cited privacy laws in not seeking blood tests. Being a "fair weather" fan of baseball myself I enjoy the HR races and assalts on different records. I think PED's of some form or fashion have been a part of the game since day one. And yes BPP
damn premature post pushing To finish my train of thought, yes BPP this does include players like Jeter, Rivera, and even Bonds. I Don't know the solution, or even if there is one that will satisfy the majority of fans, players, coaches, and owners. I just hope they figure it out soon so we can go back to just watching games and rooting for the guys that chase the records.
ESPN has this article, which makes it sound like the investigators are really just trying to get Bonds.
Damned French! (seriously though, this is not surprising. when there's lots & lots of money/competition involved, these sorts of things always happen)
yes BPP this does include players like Jeter, Rivera, and even Bonds. Wow. Did you just lump Jeter and Rivera in with Bonds? Damn premature guilt distribution... And a pox on you, bperk, for trying to turn a nice conversation about PED's into just another Bonds thread.
Oh, please forgive me BPP. That was not my intention. But, the credibility of the investigators matter in a case like this. This wasn't an affidavit by Grimsley naming names. This was an affidavit by an investigator who may have his own agenda.
Baseball-Reference.com has a neat little tool called "Oracle of Baseball" that lets you see how connected a player is to other players. You can do individual links (Player A to Player B), or you can produce lists of players that played with Player C. For example, here is a truncated list of everyone that played on the same team (in the same season) as Jason Grimsley. And for the record, Bonds never played on the same team as Jason Grimsley.
It would be great if we could do pitchers only. Former pitchers with short last names that have spent some time in Florida.
So far everyone has been talking about the players, but if this drug abuse was/is as rampant and as blatant as alleged, then a lot more people than the players will be indicted. Managers and even some owners had to know. To at least some extent, the owners are culpable and should be held responsible
That's never going to happen because the Commissioner works for the owners. That's why this whole "investigation" is so bogus. The only people MLB wants to hold accountable are players, regardless of who else was complicit.
grum@work: For example, here is a truncated list of everyone that played on the same team (in the same season) as Jason Grimsley. Aha! Jose Mesa. 'Roids sure would explain his rage!
Jimmy Gobble? Say it ain't so!
So deadspin is reporting that one of the affidavit names is Chris Mihlfeld, a trainer in Kansas City. Chris Mihlfeld is also Albert Pujol's trainer. Deadspin admits the're not 100 percent sure, but they did think it was newsworthy enough to post. Link
We are not claiming that Pujols has taken HGH. We are simply pointing out that Milhfeld is reportedly mentioned in the affidavit, and that he has connections to be Grimsley and Pujols. Well, that's good enough for me. Pujols used HGH. Anyone that says otherwise is just a Pujols-apologist and has their head in the sand. This is more than enough proof for me to say that all of his records and stats should be wiped from the books and his MVP award should be taken away from him. In fact, I think they should throw Pujols out of the game for life, reinstate Pete Rose, move the Nationals back to Montreal and play without gloves. However, I may have overdosed myself on Robaxacet and gotten too much sun to my balding pate, so my thought process may be a little...suspect...today.
No, grum, you're on to something. I think all major league games since 1980 should be wiped from the records, and all players who played after that time should give their money back. Also, the owners should find all the people who bought tickets to games and refund their ticket money. Let's just forget baseball ever happened. Chalk it up to a crazy generation of greed and selfishness. Boy, is Roger Clemens gonna be pissed when we tell him he's irrelevant and poor.
The tongue and cheek comments are quite hilarious. grum@work, you might want to invest in a hat (haha). It's a wonderful invention that keeps that balding pate (of which mine is fast coming) at a normal tempurature, thus limiting the meltdowns on the thought process. As for this whole HGH mess, I think blood tests are the way to go, but only if they develop one that is reliable enough to be accurate. With the way a positive test pretty much ends a career, the testers have to be nearly 100 percent sure before condemning a player.
So, Pujols' trainer tells Grimsley where he can get some amphetamines. Therefore, Pujols is using HGH. Did I miss something?
