For Red Sox, Ramirez problem: won't go away. Will Renteria? Bernie Williams may have played his last game as a Yankee, and the Astros might not offer Clemens arbitration. Also, John Olerud retires, head intact.
posted by justgary to baseball at 01:52 AM - 52 comments
Straight up, Bobby Abreu for Manny.
posted by GoBirds at 04:06 AM on December 07
Too bad, they created there problem! When you want to be apart of the big boys and spend like crazy and then your investment turns out bad, OH WELL!!!! You've already priced out half of the majors, good luck getting rid of them. Pitching wins most championships anyhow, so boston should just eat half his contract and trade him for a stud pitcher and fill in there outfield with someone else!
posted by injury-prone at 04:25 AM on December 07
Yet another opportunity to flame Clemens: He's holding the Astros hostage with his waffling on whether or not he's going to pitch next year and they have a number of guys up for arbitration and a budget. For the sake of that team he needs to let them know what his plans are. Maybe he's just laying the groundwork for yet another switch in teams - maybe going back to the Yankees for one more year. I don't know. Manny with his no trade clause will probably not want to go to Philly - I think it's Mets or bust. Frankly, I would expect that he plays in Boston next year. And straight up Manny for Abreu is about 60 cents on the dollar if you're the Red Sox. Phillies need to chuck in a couple prospects.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 07:57 AM on December 07
When you want to be apart of the big boys and spend like crazy and then your investment turns out bad, OH WELL!!!! How in the world do you see Manny as a bad investment? Since joining the Sox in 2000, Manny has averaged (with apologies to grum): .327 avg; .630 slugging %; .427 OBP; 137 games; 38 HR; 117 RBI; 165 hits; 98 runs; 35 2B; Plus, there's that whole helping-the-Red-Sox-win-the-World-Series thing, which is hard to put a price tag on. Perhaps you should reevaluate your investment criteria. Oh yeah, Roger Clemens was vacationing down the road in Hatteras this week, and he's still a dick.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 08:19 AM on December 07
John Olerud deserves his own thread here.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 08:54 AM on December 07
TBH hits the n00b button. For shame...
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 09:11 AM on December 07
The_Black_Hand Am I gonna have to post this 4 times for you to read it? No one denies Manny's prowess behind the plate, but you have to admit this guy can be a big headache sometimes. From what I hear of him he is a really nice guy but he needs to be coddeled in order to remain happy. Why this guy has such a fragile psyche I'll never know.
posted by HATER 187 at 09:26 AM on December 07
I think that Manny is lacking class. I think it's great entertainment the way he admires balls he thinks are home runs that actually stay in the park. Then he ends up with a real long single. He has the ability to be outstanding if he would shut his mouth and play hard.
posted by jtrluva at 09:33 AM on December 07
He's worth the money just to see him tear up divots in the outfield bigger than Tiger's in the fairway.....Priceless.....!!
posted by gfinsf at 10:03 AM on December 07
Oh and how about that cut off play.....gotta be worth more stories than any HR.....and "jtruva".....gotta love those too...... he's the ultimate entertainer in baseball..... not for always playing good sound baseball but never know what you're gonna get.........a 450 ft shot, a ballet as he watches a single bounce off the wall or a dive into the pasture as he tries to figure out what he is chasing.....But still a big sticker price.......
posted by gfinsf at 10:18 AM on December 07
He has the ability to be outstanding if he would shut his mouth and play hard. OMFG, are you talking about Manny Ramirez or Manny Alexander? Ability to be outstanding? Maybe you and gfinsf are experimenting with internet fanboy code and I just don't get it.
posted by YukonGold at 11:12 AM on December 07
may all the soxs' problems be BIG ONES
posted by FrankySP at 11:16 AM on December 07
I forgot the cutoff play that was classic. When I say manny needs to shut his mouth and play it's because I live in New Engalnd and all you hear is Manny doesn't want to play in Boston this and that. Waa Either shut up and play or leave. I'm tired of it be on the local news channels endlessly. Then they can't trade him so he stays and it's a love fest. It's like watching daytime drama.
posted by jtrluva at 11:27 AM on December 07
Oops New England
posted by jtrluva at 11:28 AM on December 07
When I say manny needs to shut his mouth and play it's because I live in New Engalnd and all you hear is Manny doesn't want to play in Boston this and that. Well, yeah, but as you point out, a lot of this is how it's played in the New England sports media. The Red Sox, in particular, inspire both intense fawning veneration and obsessive (self-)loathing in some of the very same sportswriters. There's no, "Heh, yeah, they're a decent team this year, they're doing ok," no, they're either God or Satan. So it's not Manny; Red Sox subjects very often get treated with this sort of extreme mood swing.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 11:57 AM on December 07
When I say manny needs to shut his mouth and play it's because I live in New Engalnd and all you hear is Manny doesn't want to play in Boston this and that. Waa Sounds like the same thing applies to you. Don't turn on WEEI, don't watch sports final w/Lobel or NECN with Chris Collins. You have the ability to avoid any and all Manny talk. But, that's also not what you said. You equated Manny shutting up with him being outstanding. Manny is the 1A right handed hitter in the game, the Red Sox are not exploring trades with him because he's a problem or his contract is too big. He wants out. He says he doesn't want to play here anymore, if so inclined he could retire and they'd get nothing. He's forcing their hand and I think it's apparent they have the advantage in bargaining...they don't have to do jack, he's under contract.
posted by YukonGold at 12:46 PM on December 07
That could be part of it however I still hate the lack of effort (mostly base running)I see in him during games. He has an arrogant way about him that gets on my nerves. I would hate it in any player.
posted by jtrluva at 12:50 PM on December 07
So, what's Manny's personal issue that Ortiz alluded to? Anyone have any idea why exactly he wants to get outta town?
posted by lil_brown_bat at 01:36 PM on December 07
John Olerud was one of the nicest and classiest guys (as perceived by the media) on the Blue Jays during his time. How often do you hear of a player winning the batting title being benched during a World Series game so someone else can play his position (and bat) instead? And then how many times do you find out that the benched player agrees it is best for the team and supports the move? I look forward to him appearing at future Blue Jay oldtimer appearances.
posted by grum@work at 01:50 PM on December 07
Dear Boston: We will take Manny Ramirez off your hands. Love, Every Other Team in Baseball
posted by grum@work at 01:51 PM on December 07
I still hate the lack of effort (mostly base running) I see in him during games. He has an arrogant way about him that gets on my nerves. I don't think you watch very many games then. Sounds like your opinion is solely shaped by the media. I'll stick to grum's opinion on Manny Ramirez, even with this "lack of effort" on the base paths you seem so disgusted by.
posted by YukonGold at 02:22 PM on December 07
I would take Arod over Manny any day because he is a power hitter an awesome defender and he runs out his hits you never see him stand and admire his hit and then end up on first base. Manny is getting a shit load of money to play a game and he's complaining about playing in Boston because he wants a private life yet he calls constant attention to himself. Such as his episode of climbing into the green monster during a game. Also I don't watch those sport shows like I said it's on my local news channels. But even if I turn off the news I would still here it from most of the red sox fans.
posted by jtrluva at 02:30 PM on December 07
Yukon you can't even tell me that Manny puts an effort into baserunning or your not watching the games not me. Even the Red sox announcers complain about his base running. You can assume that I don't watch the games all you want however your incorrect I watch baseball from start to finish and the only two teams I watch faithfully are the Yankees and the red sox.
posted by jtrluva at 02:49 PM on December 07
Yukon you can't even tell me that Manny puts an effort into baserunning or your not watching the games not me. Well, how do you measure "effort"? Do you have a heart rate monitor on the guy? What exactly are you using as your metric? Even the Red sox announcers complain about his base running. What was I saying about New England sports media?
posted by lil_brown_bat at 03:02 PM on December 07
Mea Culpa Mea Culpa Mea Culpa Mea Culpa ...bastards.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 03:08 PM on December 07
I'm a Yankeefan & a Manny fan. I liked him in Cleveland & I like him in Boston, but I always said that with Manny you need a good 3rd base coach. One that will step out across the line when Manny connects & point to 1st base. Otherwise poor Manny might run the wrong way around the bases. Talking about Manny's smarts & baserunning skills is a bit like talking about the integrity & honesty of Pete Rose, the stunning good looks of Otis Nixon, the global views of Ricky Henderson. He'll never win the Nobel Prize but the man is a baseball player through & through. Point your thumbs towards the sky - index fingers horizontal, like little pistols - point them left then right & repeat after me ..."He da Manny"
posted by knuckleballer at 03:15 PM on December 07
You can assume that I don't watch the games all you want however your incorrect I have such a problem with this. Right, lbb? There were 3 instances last season where Manny had a routine ground out and didn't hustle to first. Suddenly, that's turned into he's lazy and doesn't play with any intensity. I also distinctly remember that after each of those blow ups in the media, within a week you'd see him barrel-assing it to second on a shot in the gap. Those in the media take credit for that by saying "look what we did, he's running hard now". At the same time they'll criticize him if he gets out. You can't win in Boston. Does Manny get frustrated and dog it to first base when when he grounds into an obvious double play? Yes. But everyone who thinks that they can do the physics on determining whether he would have been safe running 100% is totally dillusional. It's a non-issue to me and if turning it into some kind of character issue in preserving the purity of the game works for you, stick with it. I'll take Manny and his production...and his 3 jogs to first a season.
posted by YukonGold at 04:05 PM on December 07
I am from the Boston area, and I think anyone who wants Manny out of here are not true fans of the game. He is one of the best hitters our generation will ever see. And when he is gone Red sox fans will see what he meant to this team and how amazing he was to watch hit. Sure he is odd to say the least, but wait you'll see. Also watch Ortiz's numbers drop next year. Its the knee jerk reactions of the boston media and fans that is driving the guy out here anyway. and when we bring up his lazyness, go back and check the tapes, there were plenty of times when Ortiz didn't run out grounders....never heard a pep from the media, but that has nothing to do with the fact they like him, right? Watch the best hitters in the game most of them dog it to first from time to time, MANNY PLEASE STAY P.S why do all Yankee fans start off there sentences with" I'm a Yankee fan" ?.You make great points though Knuckleballer
posted by Lunger24 at 06:08 PM on December 07
Bottom line, Manny is a damn good ballplayer. He's just a kook.
posted by Desert Dog at 06:12 PM on December 07
As a Yankee fan, I look forward to a Red Sox lineup without Manny. That would be a dream come true. Please send him to the NL. If the Angels end up with the guy, then you'll be reading only about Vlad-Manny, and not anything more about Ortiz.
posted by dyams at 06:25 PM on December 07
I have such a problem with this. Right, lbb? It's hard to say what's worse lately, the fanbois or the haters.
posted by lil_brown_bat at 06:35 PM on December 07
I wasn't saying anything about dogging it to first base on a ground ball. What I was referring to is the way he stands at the plate when he thinks he has a homerun that ends up staying in the park. Then he ends up on first where if he was running out of the box he'd have a double or a triple. As for David ortiz maybe the media doesn't beat him up because he doesn't have the speed to begin with. Manny has the speed but doesn't use it SOME times. However dogging it on a possible ground ball is also wrong you never know what can happen what if the ball is thrown slightly off line. But I guess the attitude hey I'm out anyway why try is an acceptable one to you. Yep I'm a hater. I would be outraged if this was a Yankee player. Not to mention I never said that he sucked. I said he could be outstanding. I see where I can be called a hater.
posted by jtrluva at 08:04 AM on December 08
So, Renteria is gone (Pretty sure that's also part of this post). I thought they had Lowell to play third? Can this guy play first?
posted by arrmatey at 10:31 AM on December 08
Anyone can play first.
posted by justgary at 11:02 AM on December 08
I said he could be outstanding. Manny Ramirez IS outstanding. He's the best right-handed hitter in the American League, it's barely argueable. You're in all these threads hating and making outrageous, unfounded comments. You did specifically mention his base-running, admiring a home run ball when it goes foul or goes out, does not involve base running...so you don't have a problem with those? I would be outraged if this was a Yankee player. First, at least you admitted, mostly, to being a Yankee fan. Second, you don't have to worry about him being a Yankee he can ruin another team. Also, don't pretend to be an informed Red Sox fan to prove your point. Be a Yankee fan and hate on Manny, it's OK.
posted by YukonGold at 11:35 AM on December 08
He's the best right-handed hitter in the American League Barley arguable, did we forget this years AL MVP? I digress. Manny is risk/reward situation. Is the fact that he can be club house cancer worth his ability at the plate? I'd take him in heartbeat.
posted by HATER 187 at 11:58 AM on December 08
Barley arguable, did we forget this years AL MVP? I thought that was because of defense, not offense.
posted by YukonGold at 12:06 PM on December 08
Anyone can play first. Never saw Dr. Strangeglove? Even his license plate was funny - E3.
posted by drevl at 12:14 PM on December 08
Yukon He beats him in the "stats that count" A-ROD .421 OBP .610 slugging and for the "less important stats" .321 BA 48 HR and 130 RBI MANNY .388 OBP .594 slugging .292 BA 45HR and 144 RBI Not to say the Manny isn't an incredable hitter, its just that Alex was better these past seasons. Manny does have a slight edge in career stats but also has a couple of years on A-Rod. I really didn't intend on this turning into a Yanks vs Sox post but uh Yukon started it.
posted by HATER 187 at 12:52 PM on December 08
omg, I was fucking joking. Sorry the sarcasm in the own3d image wasn't enough to signal I wasn't legitimately interested in opening that discussion.
posted by YukonGold at 01:07 PM on December 08
Sorry I see soxs fans and I just wanna argue. Its a genetic thing.
posted by HATER 187 at 01:16 PM on December 08
I never pretended to be an informed sox fan. I watch all their games because I'm interested to see what happens in the division for the Yankees. I said I watch the games. Never said that I was routing for them to win. I would have thought my screen name made it obvious I was a yankee fan.
posted by jtrluva at 01:53 PM on December 08
would have thought my screen name made it obvious I was a yankee fan I never saw that. I always sucked at bumper stumpers though.
posted by YukonGold at 02:56 PM on December 08
Anyone can play first. This obviously comes from someone who's never played real competitive baseball. We're not talking about girl's junior high softball. Hopefully that comment was made as a joke.
posted by dyams at 03:23 PM on December 08
This obviously comes from someone who's never played real competitive baseball. We're not talking about girl's junior high softball. Hopefully that comment was made as a joke. From age 4 to 20, every position except catcher. Do I make the cut? A joke? Partly, partly not. Anyone can play first. Not everyone can play first well. Got a great bat who can't run and sucks in the field? If you can't dh him, put him at first. Where would you play ortiz if he can't dh? First. Can a guy who won a gold glove at third play first? Of course, because anyone (at the ML level, and that's what we're talking about) can play first. You just have to need him in the lineup bad enough.
posted by justgary at 04:15 PM on December 08
I never pretended to be an informed sox fan. I watch all their games because I'm interested to see what happens in the division for the Yankees. Good Christ, get the Season Ticket package or get Netflix. I cannot imagine watching my team's arch-rival for 162 games (totally believable, by the way) just to see how they're doing.
posted by yerfatma at 07:37 AM on December 09
Also, anyone can play first. See Vaughn, Mo . . .
posted by yerfatma at 07:38 AM on December 09
Anyone can play first. Not everyone can play first well. I think that's the point. You could say that about every position, if you just want to put someone there and call them a first baseman, center fielder, etc. You don't notice how important a good first baseman is until you're saddled with a shitty one with no range, can't start a double play, can't make a lead throw to a pitcher covering first, etc. If it's just a matter of putting someone there, the Sox can just thrown Huge Papi there and, since he can hit, they have their first baseman. Good luck.
posted by dyams at 08:26 AM on December 09
I feel like you're being obtuse. The defensive requirements of first base are lower than any other defensive position you care to name. Teams have certainly hidden any number of defensive liabilities there. Ortiz could and has played first base for the Sox when it worked out for the lineup, but usually they have some other decent hitter who's at least slightly better with the glove.
posted by yerfatma at 08:45 AM on December 09
First base is also a place for people who throw lefty.
posted by HATER 187 at 10:43 AM on December 09
You could say that about every position That's why Greg Luzinski, Chris Chambliss and Mark McGwire are known as the greatest double play combo in MLB history.
posted by The_Black_Hand at 11:09 AM on December 09
Talking about the Red Sox and fielding requirements doesn't make much sense.
posted by dyams at 03:21 PM on December 09
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