FanDuel - WFBC

February 22, 2005

'Just Another Game' as Carter, Nets host Raptors: After averaging 16 points in 20 games with the Raptors, Carter is scoring 26 points per game while hitting 45 percent of his shots for the Nets. Mourning never reported to Toronto and Eric Williams and Aaron Williams are averaging a combined five points per game for the Raptors.

posted by mayerkyl to basketball at 12:46 PM - 32 comments

On a related note: I haven't been watching but I've been noticing he's getting (or, was) more minutes. Is Aruajo coming along or is he still a major bust?

posted by dfleming at 01:48 PM on February 22

Welcome to the most fucked up franchise in the NBA, and quickly coming up in the running for all of sports. To sum up: - Aruajo - consensus so far - stiff. Too slow, no hands, his nickname should change from 'Hoffa' to '6 fouls'. (Though he works hard and may eventually develop into a back-up centre worth keeping around if he tells good jokes). - Eric Williams - might be a good player, but shit I wouldn't know. He might as well be invisible. Doesn't matter, he'll be gone by Thursday. - Aaron Williams - Uhhhh...... plays less than Alvin Williams. And that's tough to do. - Vince - much happier obviously, and much better to boot - he says its all about Jason Kidd, but I'm inclined to believe it's all about no longer playing here, which evidently drove him nuts. Hey 3 coaches in the last three years, and I'm a little sympathetic. But Kee-rist this guy was dogging it - a lay-up was rare enough let alone a dunk. He'll have a decent game tonight, but wait until he comes back here in April to drop 50 on us. I just get sad in my heart.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 02:16 PM on February 22

Doesn't matter, he'll be gone by Thursday. I hope so. Eric Williams is one of those guys that deserves to be traded to the Spurs and handed a ring. Couldn't be a classier, harder-working player in the league. Plus he's a former PC Friar and 2x ex-Celtic, so I gots to root for him.

posted by yerfatma at 02:49 PM on February 22

Which is not to say I think the Spurs will waltz to the title. Just that Williams deserves better than he gets.

posted by yerfatma at 02:49 PM on February 22

I also think that Vince's new-found production has very little to do with Jason Kidd. He was flat-out dogging it in Toronto, which is a disgrace. It's too bad he's getting away with it. I hope it catches up to him some day. I certainly can't root for the man, impressive as he may be. That dunk in the all-star game was nasty. McGrady was the other one that I saw oop it to himself. Imagine if they were both still in Toronto. What's the deal with Zo "not reporting." How do players get away with that shit?

posted by mayerkyl at 03:22 PM on February 22

Zo was "injured". Yeah.

posted by DrJohnEvans at 04:04 PM on February 22

Disgusting as it may sound - I still can't help but love Vince as a player. When he's on, he is everything that is good about the NBA. I know, god, I'm such a victim.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 04:22 PM on February 22

I'm just saying... I'm going to love bringing up Vince next time a Carolina fan talks to me about how Carolina produces better pros and classier people. 'Sheed at least has being ridiculously talented to counter-balance being the most T'd player and immature jerk in the league, Vince doesn't even have that.

posted by tieguy at 06:08 PM on February 22

It would be sweet justice if Kidd jumps ship to Minny. Vince would be back on a team of average skill malcontents.

posted by dusted at 07:15 PM on February 22

First off -- Vince Carter is a bitch. Secondly, I've been listening to Toronto talk radio for much of the day. Many callers were advocating signing Dennis Rodman or Todd Bertuzzi to a 10-day flyer to break Carter's legs the first time he ventured into the paint. Despite the weak protestations of the FAN 590's on-air talent, I wholeheartedly concur. I would love to see someone on the Raptors (Hoffa) throw Vince's sorry ass six rows up, then just stand over him while he cried and grabbed his knee or called for his momma. I know, I know ... you don't advocate hurting another man. I agree, and as soon as Vince Carter becomes a man, we'll treat him as such. Until then, let the headhunting begin.

posted by wfrazerjr at 08:13 PM on February 22

3 for 11 at the half. if the basketball gods are willing VC will pull up lame in the second half. knee, ankle, whatever.

posted by gspm at 08:13 PM on February 22

Carter's night? 26 points on 8-of-25 shooting. In the second half he was blatantly forcing shots, allowing the Raptors to pull away. Oh, and his defense sucked ass.

posted by wfrazerjr at 09:09 PM on February 22

8-of-25? Hell, a half-dozen of us SpoFites could go at least 8-for-25 against the Craptors' D. If only they could keep that going against the big gun on every team, they'd have more of a chance.

posted by chicobangs at 09:12 PM on February 22

I'm pretty sure I saw him rubbing his knee about three minutes into the game.

posted by DrJohnEvans at 09:15 PM on February 22

Final: Toronto 100 New Jersey 82 Who would have guessed? Maybe Vince wasn't "trying" his hardest.

posted by mayerkyl at 06:43 AM on February 23

Well, it's not like the Nets are much better, in fact, one could argue that they're even more of a travesty because they have two known superstars in their midst, while the Raptors, at best, have one in training. Chris Bosh became the third youngest player in NBA history to amass 1000 rebounds last night - behind Garnett and McGrady, doing it in 130 games - the quickest out of the trio. Now there's a player you can get behind.... At least for another year, until he demands a trade out of this mess.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 07:41 AM on February 23

Weedy, do you get the sense that Bosh might stick around, though? He strikes me as a level-headed kid, one who might buy into Mitchell and Babcock's desire to build around him with character and make him the star. Knowing Toronto will throw a boatload of cash at him, I kinda think Bosh might be here for the long-term.

posted by wfrazerjr at 08:43 AM on February 23

Has Bosh even improved over last season? Other than playing more minutes, I mean.

posted by mike goodman at 09:16 AM on February 23

I could see Bosh being the Raptors' next Degaldo. mike, a quick glance reveals that his shooting is up a couple percent, and he's attempting a couple more shots per game. He's also averaging one more rebound a game than last year. So his numbers are up a bit. The most telling stat, though, is his free throw shooting. He's in much stronger shape this year (there were early burn-out concerns last year), and he's using his strength under the basket, drawing nearly twice as many free throws this year.

posted by DrJohnEvans at 09:50 AM on February 23

Toronto is heading down a slippery slope: especially after the Vince Carter debacle, everybody wants to believe in Chris Bosh, 'cause he's a really likeable guy and a very skilled player. They will throw money at him, they will build a team around him, but mark my words, he is not a franchise player. His marketability, however, will blind management to that fact.....kind of like the way it did with Vince, may he rot in hell or New Jersey.

posted by smithers at 10:33 AM on February 23

Yes, I think Bosh can/will stick around - but if the team is still a 'Clippers-in-training' type then why would he? Bosh is fully capable of becoming a 20 and 10 guy- in fact, since the Vince trade he has often enough approached this (one should consider the 'Vince factor' since for the first part of the season, Bosh was seeing far fewer touches). But he not liekly to hit Garnett-like territory because his jumper doesn't have the range, and he's just not as strong underneath. However, having said that - his talent and work ethic are a good combination and his ceiling is a lot higher than most. It takes a good three-four years to develop a front court player, 2 guards(like Melo and Wade) tend to take more shots, so their stats get more gaudy earlier, but Bosh is quite capable of reaching All-Star status as early as next year. He is a good player to build around, if you chose the moniker 'franchise', then go ahead - it's him.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 11:35 AM on February 23

screw toronto they lost one team and they goin to lose another if bosh and eric leaves bosh goin to demand a high pay i could see bosh goin to teams like clippers, charlotte, even the hornets

posted by dhdefrag3x at 12:26 PM on February 23

refresh my memory - what team did toronto lose?

posted by gspm at 12:46 PM on February 23

bosh goin to demand a high pay Yes, Bosh will demand a high pay - and the Raptors are going to pay him. MLSEL is hardly poor. But what would I know? - far too busy dodging flying hockey pucks outside of my igloo. Oh and gpsm, I believe dhdefrag3x (Heretofor known as The Professor) was referring to the Grizzlies.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 12:56 PM on February 23

Or possibly the Expos. Both teams were roughly in the GTA.

posted by DrJohnEvans at 02:11 PM on February 23

Chris Bosh
Toronto Raptors
Position:  F
Height:  6-10 Weight: 235
College: Georgia Tech '06
2004-05 Statistics
PPG16.0
RPG8.3
APG1.8
SPG.91
BPG1.24
FG%.475
FT%.719
3P%.333
MPG35.8
Kevin Garnett
Minnesota Timberwolves
Position:  F
Height:  6-11 Weight: 220
High School: Farragut Academy HS (IL)
2004-05 Statistics
PPG22.1
RPG13.9
APG5.8
SPG1.50
BPG1.39
FG%.499
FT%.803
3P%.190
MPG38.9
It's not out of the realm of possibility for Bosh to become the next KG, but I think the thing that separates KG from the rest of the NBA is intensity. I've never seen someone so intently focused, playing the game angry, scaring even his teammates (before this season anyway). Bosh has the talent and the physique, but so do a lot of other guys in the NBA. Whether you can win a championship building around a guy like KG, let alone Bosh, is another argument. Other than Detroit, every champ in the last ten years has been formed around a shooting guard and/or center.

posted by dusted at 02:20 PM on February 23

Whether you can win a championship building around a guy like KG, let alone Bosh, is another argument. This is another thing that vexes me: I'm not sure why, but I have the same feeling - Garnett is a stat monster, like a lot of PF who can shoot, but so far, they can't seem to win - is it because they take over too many aspects of the game? And if so, why would that hurt your team? Things that bother me at night when the power goes out. Bosh really needs to work on his passing to even begin to approach KG's game. Right now he's a bit of a black hole - mostly because he has to be, he's the only inside guy who can score - but you can see just how far he could go - remember, he's only 20 too.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 02:49 PM on February 23

I thought it would also be useful to compare the two players at the same point in their careers. You see that the numbers are comparable:

Chris Bosh
Toronto Raptors
Position: F
Height: 6-10 Weight: 235
College: Georgia Tech '06
2004-05 Statistics
PPG16.0
RPG8.3
APG1.8
SPG.91
BPG1.24
FG%.475
FT%.719
3P%.333
MPG35.8
Kevin Garnett
Minnesota Timberwolves
Position: F
Height: 6-11 Weight: 220
High School: Farragut Academy HS (IL)
1996-97 Statistics
PPG17.0
RPG8.1
APG3.1
SPG1.36
BPG2.12
FG%.499
FT%.754
3P%.286
MPG38.9

As Weedy points out, the major discrepancy is in the passing game, and I'm not sure if I see that changing much, at least in the near future, because he doesn't handle the ball as much on the perimeter and isn't as comfortable with his dribble when he is there.

posted by smithers at 03:47 PM on February 23

Thanks, smithers. That's a much better comparison.

posted by dusted at 04:03 PM on February 23

Lets not start comparing players i know as sports NUTS we all like to see how many points a rookie Jordan got compared to a Lebron and a Bosh/Garnett duel i think was always on the cards. but we need to take into acount time/year/style/coach/offence...do you think that the Raptors with no VC a poor shooting, crap point guard team is going to feed the ball anywhere else but done Bosh's throat all game of course they are. Garnett they put him in a team and tried not to rush him so quickly in a side that was chock full of shooting guards the an spent more time rebounding than anything else.

posted by bballcoachreid at 09:09 PM on February 23

bballcoachreid: do you actually watch the Raptors on a frequent basis? He doesn't get that many quality touches -- in my opinion, partly because his offensive game is still pretty raw and partly because Mitchell hasn't figured out how to use him properly. A look at the team's field goal attempts over the past five games has Bosh at 4th, 3rd, 1st, 3rd, 3rd on the team.....and for the season, he averages the 4th most, if you include Carter's numbers in there.

posted by smithers at 08:12 AM on February 24

but nets are better than the raptor

posted by joel at 05:38 PM on November 16

You're not logged in. Please log in or register.