04/19/24
April 09, 2015
Who are the "Franchise Four"?:
A chance to vote for the four players on each franchise (plus 3 other categories) who have had the biggest impact on those franchises. The winners are to be revealed during the MLB All-Star Game.
Deceptive. It lists career stats for the players and not stats with that franchise.
I want to be able to vote for Pedro as an Expo, no write-in vote for some team that plays near Baltimore. Make it so.
The first three Mariners seem obvious (Edgar, Jr. and Felix) but then I can't split Randy Johnson and Ichiro.
How on earth does Josh Hamilton get on the Rangers ballot? Michael Young, Kinsler, Beltre have all done more for the Rangers in the recent past.
Wish Kenny Lofton got some recognition for Cleveland.
posted by deflated at 03:13 AM on April 09, 2015
Other discussion points:
Who do you pick as your #4 Boston player (behind Young, Yaz, and Williams)? Ortiz or Martinez?
The top 5 players in career WAR not listed any where on any ballot:
1) Roger Clemens (8th in WAR)
2) Alex Rodriguez (17th)
3) Phil Niekro (34th)
4) Wade Boggs (42nd)
5) Gaylord Perry (43rd)
The lowest player in career WAR (in the top 1000) who appears on a ballot: Rollie Fingers (983rd in WAR). There are some active players who currently have less WAR (Melvin Upton, for example).
Total number of active players on the lists: 33
Ortiz, Crawford*, Kazmir*, Longoria, Price*, Shields*, M.Upton*, Zobrist*, Bautista, Mi.Cabrera, Verlander, Gordon, Mauer, Trout, F.Hernandez, I.Suzuki*, A.Beltre, Hamilton*, Stanton, Wright, Rollins*, Utley, Zimmerman, Braun, Fielder*, Pujols*, Goldschmidt, C.Gonzalez, Holliday*, Tulowitzki, A.Gonzalez*, Peavy*, Posey
*indicates not playing for the team where he's listed on the ballot
posted by grum@work at 08:46 AM on April 09, 2015
Oh my god. They have Josh Hamilton as an option for the Rangers but not Fergie Jenkins or Ruben Sierra or Jim Sundberg (who won 6 consecutive Gold Gloves as a Catcher for the team).
Josh Hamilton.
This is fucky.
posted by Ufez Jones at 09:04 AM on April 09, 2015
Who do you pick as your #4 Boston player (behind Young, Yaz, and Williams)? Ortiz or Martinez?
Funny, I was asking myself the same question only a little differently because I had Martinez in place of Young. I think I might pick Ortiz over Young simply because more of Ortiz's fame stems entirely (95% at least) from his time in Boston and because he was a key figure in their modern revival. Cy Young only played 8 of his 22 years for the Red Sox and while he did end his career in Boston, it was with the Braves after 2+ years in Cleveland.
but not Fergie Jenkins or Ruben Sierra or Jim Sundberg
I get the point, but who in the hell wants to claim Ruben Sierra as their franchise's star?
posted by yerfatma at 09:32 AM on April 09, 2015
I get the point, but who in the hell wants to claim Ruben Sierra as their franchise's star?
Hey, this is only the Rangers' 43rd year and they didn't win their first playoff series until 2010.
Which makes it easier, I suppose, to pick their Franchise Four. Pudge, Nolan and Michael Young have to be shoo-ins. If Raffy hadn't completely blown his rep he'd probably be an easy 4th. Instead I assume it'll come down to Beltre v. Juan-Gone.
But good lord, I'd rather have Rusty Greer than Hamilton.
posted by Ufez Jones at 10:10 AM on April 09, 2015
I really liked Rusty Greer. Alternatively, Jeff Frye?
posted by yerfatma at 11:40 AM on April 09, 2015
Cardinals vote will be interesting. Assuming voting for a team will primarily be done by fans of that team, my guess would be that the list is Musial, Hornsby, Gibson, and Ozzie, but should probably include Pujols (at the expense of Ozzie).
posted by holden at 01:04 PM on April 09, 2015
I have more problem with Frank Howard and Rafael Palmeiro being there than Ruben Sierra. Howard because hitting .244 with 9 homers and 31 RBIs in the franchise's 54-100 inaugural season is weak, and Palmeiro because of the steroid cloud.
I'd put Ferguson Jenkins and Jim Sundberg in their places. I'd like to find room for Charlie Hough, but I can't find someone else to bump.
My four would be Nolan Ryan, Michael Young, Pudge Rodriguez and Adrian Beltre.
posted by rcade at 07:44 PM on April 09, 2015
Who do you pick as your #4 Boston player (behind Young, Yaz, and Williams)? Ortiz or Martinez?
I'm not sure whether or not I would include Yaz. The case for him is strong, witness his contribution to the club for so many seasons, but there are some, Foxx, Doerr, even Ruth, who might also be included. Given that Yaz is included, I might pick a 4th who was not all that great on the field, but whose contributions to the club extended over some 3-score years. That would be Johnny Pesky, teammate of Williams and fixture with the team until his death in 2012.
Johnny Pesky? You're all laughing at me now. That's the trouble with you punk kids; you don't know anybody who played before 1975 or so. You young whippersnappers ought to bone up on your history some day. Now get off my lawn!
posted by Howard_T at 01:41 AM on April 10, 2015
My vote for alt franchise 4: Lonnie Smith, who went to the WS with four different clubs.
Ariz is lucky they only have to try to come up with two more guys after Johnson and Schilling.
This is making me nostalgic for the Expos. And the Dawson-Cromartie-Valentine outfield.
posted by beaverboard at 08:50 AM on April 10, 2015
Howard, I can totally see Pesky. I only started watching the Sox in the early '80s and I still loved the guy. I would think you'd have to include Yaz for '67 and being part of the '75 Series that "saved baseball".
posted by yerfatma at 11:06 AM on April 10, 2015
The Tigers were tough. Sure, the top 3 of Cobb-Greenberg-Kaline was easy, but it needs someone from the 84 team? But who? Morris? Gibson? Trammell? I can't, in good conscience, vote for Gibson for anything, and I couldn't decide between Morris and Trammell. In the end, I voted for Ernie Harwell...
posted by MeatSaber at 08:23 PM on April 10, 2015
Blue Jays are interesting, the choices aren't as inspiring as I would expect. Alomar is obvious, then Bell. Stieb and Halladay next? Tony Fernandez, Joe Carter and Carlos Delgado just don't seem to be at the level you'd expect for a list like this.
posted by deflated at 02:39 AM on April 11, 2015
Tony Fernandez could make the list (with Alomar, Stieb and Halladay) because he was a longtime favourite who kept coming back to the team after leaving. I think that Delgado will squeeze him out, but then never underestimate the power of a TV moment to push Carter into that list. I would be very disappointed if Stieb was the one that got bumped. He was the best pitcher in the 1980s in the AL, and he pretty much carried the team right up to their first World Series Championship (when he got injured).
posted by grum@work at 10:10 AM on April 11, 2015
The Padres are kind of bizarre - Hoffman and Gwynn are obvious, but after that the "franchise-y-ness" and/or talent level drops off considerably. We've got great guys we got rid of for whatever reason (Peavy, Winfield, Gonzalez are on the list; you could also add Joe Carter, Fred McGriff, Roberto Alomar, Kevin McReynolds, etc., etc); guys we got later in their careers while they still had a few good years left (Garvey's on the list; but you could also have Garry Templeton, Craig Nettles, Kevin Brown, Steve Finley, Ken Caminiti, and any number of guys who had about as much influence as Garv); then you've got guys who were "San Diego good", like Jones and Colbert. The Padres have only retired 5 non-Robinson numbers - Garvey, Gwynn, Winfield, Jones and Hoffman; so you other than the two obvious ones you have two guys who played 2/3 of their career elsewhere and gained more fame doing so, or a pitcher with a losing record. Yay.
posted by LionIndex at 02:17 PM on April 11, 2015
Let's get some silliness out of the way:
1) Alex Rodriguez, Roger Clemens, and Manny Ramirez do not appear on any of the lists. Pete Rose, however, appears on the Reds list.
2) Multiple franchise appearances (not including the 3 other categories) for Barry Bonds, Frank Robinson, Gary Carter, Vlad Guerrero, Randy Johnson, Steve Garvey, and Nolan Ryan.
3) The Negro Leagues, Pioneers, and Living Legends lists are probably the toughest votes. With the Living Legends, I could easily vote for the four OF, but then it would be criminal to leave out the two pitchers.
4) If Jeter or Rivera gets one of those four Yankee spots, I'll lose my mind. They are up against Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Mantle, Berra, and Ford. The first 5 in that list are leagues ahead of the modern stars.