FanDuel - WFBC

August 09, 2006

Why We Hate A-Rod: Eric Neel takes a look at why A-Rod, one of the best baseball players most of us have ever seen, is generally disliked by fans.

posted by bperk to baseball at 11:38 AM - 88 comments

A very interesting read. I wonder if he might have been the biggest casualty in the 2004 ALCS. Although he did win the MVP last year, it still seems like he is suffering some sort of hangover. No matter what people say, I would still take him. I was secretly hoping (with no expectations) that somehow the Cardinals could pick him up. Pujols, Rolen and ARod on the same infield sounds pretty deadly to me...Ahhh, wishful thinking

posted by edub1321 at 11:53 AM on August 09

Good god, Larry Johnson's ARod illustrations are frightening. That's all I've got right now. I know my opinions and I want to see in what direction the thread goes.

posted by jerseygirl at 11:54 AM on August 09

You make it sound like other contributions from Larry Johnson aren't complete shit.

posted by yerfatma at 12:01 PM on August 09

It's a very simple scoring system to determine if you are likely to "hate" ARod. Start at 0 points: +1 if you believe in "clutch" ability +2 if you've used the phrase "Captain Clutch" in describing other players -1 if you realize that runs in the 5th inning are equal to runs in the 9th inning +1 if he plays for your team and it hasn't won a World Series in over 5 years +5 if he plays for your team and there is at least 2 players on it that have won a World Series with your team in the past 20 years -5 if you realize that individual players don't win World Series on their own +2 if you read the NY Post -2 if you read Baseball Prospectus +10 if you ignore all the positive contributions he makes to the team, and just remember what he did last night/week/month/season +3 if you think $25million is too much for a player to earn in any sport +2 if you think that $19.6million, however, is perfectly acceptable for a player to earn If your score is greater than +3, then you will probably hate ARod.

posted by grum@work at 12:12 PM on August 09

It's "Slappy McBluelips," not "Smacky McBluelips." Anyway, I think Olbermann has it mostly right. We in Boston (or most of us, anyway) tend to excuse Manny's foibles because he is, as always, being Manny. A-Rod doesn't have a persona that allows fans to like him for him, rather than simply for what he's done for them lately. It's like he's hyper aware of how he's being perceived, and doesn't, as Olbermann says, let it wail. All that said, he's an excellent player and in any other market (besides Boston) I'd guess he'd get the benefit of the doubt. And, of course, I hate him.

posted by oscillator72 at 12:15 PM on August 09

I could have sworn that was poop on A-Rod's helmet in the illustration to the left of the graphic. Turns out its eggs. Poop would've been better.

posted by oscillator72 at 12:18 PM on August 09

he's no better than Danny Tartabull No duh, when A-Rod is on an episode of Seinfeld then he has achieved Tartabull status.

posted by HATER 187 at 12:20 PM on August 09

I had a comment all typed up. I hit preview, saw what grum wrote, and immediately deleted it. So, rather than trying to follow with any sensible point, I'll simply go for lowbrow humor: Are those drawings A-Rod or Matt Damon?

posted by SummersEve at 12:21 PM on August 09

Move ARod away from the NY area and its media and does anyone doubt that his 'hate factor' would go down?

posted by elovrich at 12:24 PM on August 09

That bat in the illustration makes it look like A-Rod needs some Viagra for his... umm... rod.

posted by scully at 12:27 PM on August 09

Why do fans hate A-Rod? Because screamy radio hosts and smarmy sports columnists instruct them to. Gimme a break. This shit is tired. Nice post grummy-wummy.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 12:31 PM on August 09

I think A-Rod has been unpopular since he took that huge contract. The year before that Griffey took a smaller contract to play with the Reds and everyone loved him for it. A-Rod decided to break the bank. Contracts didn't really follow that trend. So, his contract seems out of sync (regardless of whether that is the case or not). Add in the fact that Texas didn't have success with him, and you have the beginning of the end of A-Rod's popularity.

posted by bperk at 12:32 PM on August 09

In an unguarded moment in late June, Rodriguez actually told the New York media he was "trying way too hard" and admitted boos from the home crowd were getting to him "a little bit" What I don't understand about A-Rod haters is that he's a class-act in all ways, and even manages to say some original stuff from time-to-time. You know, actually say what he thinks, which to me is totally refreshing. To me, this is a demonstration that athletes hide behind cliches for a reason: because if you offer a real piece of yourself to the fans, as A-Rod has done, they will chew it up and spit it back at you. A-Rod is a once-in-a-lifetime kind of player. These suckers that insist on putting him down don't deserve the pleasure of watching him play.

posted by rocketman at 12:41 PM on August 09

The year before that Griffey took a smaller contract to play with the Reds and everyone loved him for it. Griffey wasn't a free agent signing by the Reds. He forced Seattle to trade him to the Reds (remember, Cameron, Tomko and Perez went the other way), and then signed a contract extension with Cincinnati. A-Rod decided to break the bank. Contracts didn't really follow that trend. That was the same year that Dreifort, Hampton, Neagle and Park's salaries went through the roof. If anything, it was part of the trend, except compared to those marginal talents, his salary actually comes close to being worth it.

posted by grum@work at 12:45 PM on August 09

I don't find him real at all, rocketman. Just the opposite, actually.

posted by jerseygirl at 12:47 PM on August 09

I know the bat in the topmost graphic is intended to be a question mark, but does anyone else see a second pssobile intended interpretation -- that A-Rod is ... er ... impotent with the bat? (On preview, looks like terrapin beat me to the punch on this one.) I don't hate A-Rod, but I largely don't judge players by their off field behavior (and I admit that A-Rod's shape-shifting, too eager to please public persona is somewhat annoying). The guy is an incredible baseball player, one of the best talents of my lifetime. Although I agree with Rob Neyer about being dismayed with A-Rod's move to third base from a historical perspective. To paraphrase -- I thought we would have a chance to watch the best shortstop since Honus Wagner, instead we will just get to see the best hitter since Barry Bonds.

posted by holden at 12:47 PM on August 09

If anything, it was part of the trend, except compared to those marginal talents, his salary actually comes close to being worth it. According to Baseball Prospectus' projections, A-Rod's projected performance in 2006 will be worth about $21,450,000 (although he is underperforming his projections at present), in 2007 will be worth $20,750,000, and in 2008 will be worth $18,050,000. Not a huge difference there between his value and his actual salary, and certainly those numbers are higher than what the Yankees are paying him.

posted by holden at 12:52 PM on August 09

Name a team (if the could afford the salary) that wouldnt want A-Rod on their roster. Not a fan or a hater, I dont know that much other than he is a very good player. This is America, where you have the right to make as much money as you can. There are a very very few percantage of people that wouldnt have done the same thing if they had the chance to make that kind of money, legally. Wjile the rest of bitch about his salary and playoff performance, he will retire with some of the best stats of anyone to play the game, a sure Hall of Famer, and will live the rest of his life in financial security. I could deal with that.

posted by lightman at 01:15 PM on August 09

Griffey wasn't a free agent signing by the Reds. He forced Seattle to trade him to the Reds (remember, Cameron, Tomko and Perez went the other way), and then signed a contract extension with Cincinnati. Griffey signed a contract extension for less than he would have gotten on the open market and less than the Mariners were offering. Maybe Arod's contract was a contract trend, but it certainly didn't seem to be one. $252 million over ten years -- five years ago. Pujols got $100 million over seven years -- two years ago. Either way, signing what was called the largest contract in sports history carries with it some baggage.

posted by bperk at 01:29 PM on August 09

The problem I see with A-Rod is that he does not make a team better. He is individually a great player with great statistics, but those individual statistics just do not translate to a better team. There are or have been players that can seem to actually carry a team. A-Rod just does not seem that type of player.

posted by graymatters at 01:36 PM on August 09

Why do fans hate A-Rod? Because screamy radio hosts and smarmy sports columnists instruct them to. That's an even more interesting question. Why does the media hate A-Rod? They usually worship to the point of being sickening any superstar.

posted by bperk at 01:38 PM on August 09

Griffey wasn't a free agent signing by the Reds. He forced Seattle to trade him to the Reds (remember, Cameron, Tomko and Perez went the other way), and then signed a contract extension with Cincinnati. It's funny to think back that the big hold up in negotiations on the Griffey trade was whether Pokey Reese would be included in the trade (the Mariners desperately wanted him and the Reds desperately wanted to hang on to him and ultimately did). Makes me laugh the same way it makes me laugh when Royce Clayton comes to bat and I think that Ozzie Smith got pushed out to make way for him (not that Clayton wasn't a better option by the end of Ozzie's career -- just that Clayton was touted as the second coming).

posted by holden at 01:49 PM on August 09

Generally we all play a bit of a psychological trick on ourselves once we've picked out a whipping boy on one of our teams. If we decide we don't like someone we tend we look for confirmation of that opinion and we tend only to take notice when we see what we're looking for. When the guy plays well, we minimize it, explain it away or tell ourselves he owes it to us for all the other times he sucks. When he does screw up, we howl our disgust, say "I told you so!" and reaffirm our opinion of our favourite target's suckiness. ...unless of course the guy really sucks, in which case, uhhhh, he really does suck. Hard to make that case against A-Rod if you take a look at the numbers and the big picture. (for those in the TO area, yea, I listen to Mike Wilner's baseball show on the FAN590, he occasionally explains fan comments this way)

posted by hb74147 at 01:50 PM on August 09

Speaking of Larry Johnson (the artist), you've all seen the Larry Johnson v. Google Images page, right?

posted by tieguy at 02:11 PM on August 09

Well, Rudy Seanez really does suck. No psychological tricks there.

posted by jerseygirl at 02:12 PM on August 09

That's awesome tieguy. Thanks. Going to pass that along.

posted by jerseygirl at 02:14 PM on August 09

Speaking of Larry Johnson (the artist), you've all seen the Larry Johnson v. Google Images page, right? You mean artists use models?!? Blasphemy! Next you'll tell me that an amusement park caricturist is a talentless hack.

posted by gradys_kitchen at 02:18 PM on August 09

The problem I see with A-Rod is that he does not make a team better. He is individually a great player with great statistics, but those individual statistics just do not translate to a better team. Please to be explaining, effendi.

posted by yerfatma at 02:18 PM on August 09

You mean artists use models?!? Blasphemy! Next you'll tell me that an amusement park caricturist is a talentless hack. Actually, photographs are copyrightable works and if Larry Johnson is creating drawings based on copyrighted photos (which these all appear to be), he may be infringing the copyright in those photos unless he is licensed to create derivative works of those photos.

posted by holden at 02:29 PM on August 09

The problem I see with A-Rod is that he does not make a team better. He is individually a great player with great statistics, but those individual statistics just do not translate to a better team.. Hit and Run Throwing Assists/Catching Putouts Double Steals Encouragement From The Dugout/Field These are the only "team" actions that a player has in baseball. Everything else is "individual", but grouped together as a "team". Batting, pitching and (a large portion of the time) fielding are individual endeavours by the player at discrete moments of time. It isn't football where you work with a teammate 95% of the time (blocking, passing/catching, running through holes, tackling, pass rushing), or hockey/basketball where continuous action makes it difficult to separate actions of individual players. If you have great "individual" statistics, you are helping your team in baseball.

posted by grum@work at 03:04 PM on August 09

I don't find him real at all, rocketman. Just the opposite, actually. What exactly does he do that makes you think the personae he presents in the media and to the fans is different than the one he has when the lights aren't on him?

posted by grum@work at 03:06 PM on August 09

The exact reasoning Neel used in the article regarding shape-shifting and saying what he thinks people want to hear, grum.

posted by jerseygirl at 03:17 PM on August 09

Hopefully he starts speaking up, cussing everyone out, bitching into every microphone put in his face. Then, if we're lucky, he'll start smacking his wife around, leave her and refuse to pay support for his child, and demand trades each and every off-season. As I see it, his only hope is to start acting like a raging, out-of-control asshole. Then maybe people will see him as "real." Playing in New York, especially, people/"fans" have absolutely unreal expectations regarding this guy. The team's in first place, with young guys throughout the lineup and a overall-junk starting pitching staff, yet it's not good enough. People still have the need to pile on A-Rod, even though his stats this putrid season (for him, personally) would be a career for most major league players. I, for one, am glad he's making $252 million and hope someday he tells all the naysayers to stick it all up their collective asses.

posted by dyams at 03:24 PM on August 09

I guess I just see him as sensitive and maybe a bit insecure.

posted by rocketman at 03:37 PM on August 09

Hopefully he starts speaking up, cussing everyone out, bitching into every microphone put in his face. Then, if we're lucky, he'll start smacking his wife around, leave her and refuse to pay support for his child, and demand trades each and every off-season... Then maybe people will see him as "real." Sweet ripe delicious hyperbole is in season at your local message board!

posted by jerseygirl at 03:40 PM on August 09

Boston Dirt Dogs photshopped A-Rod purse photo here. Larry Johnson's drawing here.

posted by holden at 03:43 PM on August 09

I agree with jg that he is phony. He likes to pretend he is a team player, but team chemistry in Texas improved after he left. He says what he thinks he should say. He seems altogether too measured and calculating. He asked for a jet for away games and other ridiculous items when he was a free agent. He said he wanted to go to a winner and then went to Texas. The slap. The dig at other players who take their kids to school. But, mainly I don't like him because he isn't any fun. He doesn't seem to have a sense of humor. You never see him clowning and having fun like the guys in Boston. He takes himself way too seriously. He should do an SNL skit or something.

posted by bperk at 04:04 PM on August 09

I don't like A-Rod. I don't know why. I gues because he's an arrogant Yankee and New Yorker and I am a fan of the dogers, Angels, and most importantly, the Red Sox.

posted by Joe88 at 04:11 PM on August 09

Name a team (if the could afford the salary) that wouldnt want A-Rod on their roster. The Texas Rangers. In fact, they're paying $10 mil a year NOT to have him on the team. And, they've effectively turned him into Brad Wilkerson and some spare parts (how much of a role Terrmel Sledge had in their acquisition of Adam Eaton and Akinori Otsuka is debatable). You never see him clowning and having fun like the guys in Boston. He takes himself way too seriously. Last night he hit a homer against the White Sox and after crossing home he flashed the el diablo hand gesture to the Chicago crowd. The cameras caught him joking in the dugout about the gesture. It was awkward and a little geeky. He reminds me of the valedictorian of my high school class, deliberately attempting to dumb down his ridiculously broad vocabulary in order to give the appearance that he wasn't really on a totally different plane than everyone else, even though it was painfully obvious that he was. Not to say that A-Rod is that kind of genius, but there's no question he isn't on the same plane. The guy is an island. As a Yankee fan, I only REALLY hate A-Rod one month a year. And I'd love for him to give me a year or five off from that. For me, he represents the Yankees only post-season failure against their most bitter rival, and he has (somewhat deservedly) become the icon for the underachievement of a $200 mil ballclub. If my team is going to get tagged repeatedly for buying championships, well, they could at least GET the freakin' rings.

posted by BullpenPro at 05:04 PM on August 09

and he has (somewhat deservedly) become the icon for the underachievement of a $200 mil ballclub. If my team is going to get tagged repeatedly for buying championships, well, they could at least GET the freakin' rings. I've always wondered about that. I'm surprised that Jason Giambi hasn't gotten more attention as a bad acquisition. He hasn't won any rings, has been around longer, and his contract is going to be an absolute albatross soon: 2007:$21M, 2008:$21M, 2009:$22M club option ($5M buyout). Throw in his "apology for nothing" for his dabbling in the BALCO scandal, and I don't understand why they don't roast him.

posted by grum@work at 05:40 PM on August 09

Other than some of the numbnuts who live in New York, who whine about damn near everybody unless they're hitting 400, driving in 200 runs and whacking 60 home runs...I've never heard of any "real" baseball "fans" that dislike the man.

posted by luckyoldson at 05:43 PM on August 09

grum does have a point in regards to ARod vs Giambi.

posted by jerseygirl at 05:47 PM on August 09

I don`t hate A Rod. He`s a fine man and a great baseball player. But I do share the perception that he is not clutch. He has yet to define his talent on the biggest stage. He is only 31. That moment may well come. Or he may be the Fran Tarkenton of baseball, a brilliant player who never gets his day in the sun. You have to remember that sports is entertainment. He has yet to give us the bright shining moment we will see forever. And as a long suffering Orioles fan, I hope New York runs him off before he achieves it.

posted by gradioc at 06:08 PM on August 09

ARod v. Giambi 2006 comparison ARod 23 HR, 80 RBI, .499 Slugging, .386 OBP Giambi 32 HR, 88 RBI, .588 Slugging, .411 OBP Maybe it's a case of what have you done for me (or the Yankees since I am not a Yankee fan) lately.

posted by graymatters at 06:17 PM on August 09

I've never heard of any "real" baseball "fans" that dislike the man. So, basically, you've broken down "real" baseball "fans" to Alexander Cartwright, Jacques Barzun and the cluster of painted Indians fans who sat in the bleachers in "Major League." Too high, indeed. Giambi's paid his dues. You can only boo one guy for so long before it falls out of style, even (and perhaps especially) in New York. Also shows you what a handful of contrition, 32 homers and 88 RBI's (both tops on the club) can do for your fan base. The additions of A-Rod and Randy Johnson have dropped Giambi way down on the list. On edit: what graymatters said.

posted by BullpenPro at 06:19 PM on August 09

Plenty of people who pay attention don't like Giambi or his contract, but there are a few reasons why noone is complaining about it quite yet: Giambi was quietly a much more productive hitter after May last year than anyone in the league, ARod included. Giambi is hitting really well again this year, and if not for that shift his average would actually look as good as the rest of his numbers (side note: if not for the shift would we even have to debate the merits of a DH winning MVP? Ortiz would probably be hitting .330 without it, in addition to his other numbers). Finally, Giambi is likeable. I think many people actually respect that he was the only honest one with the BALCO situation too. If it was up to him he'd have come right out and used the word steroids too... it was just that his agent instructed him not to, because that'd have been grounds for the Yankees voiding his contract. edit: thanks for the numbers, Gray. And that's after a huge monthlong slump. His OBP was closer to 500 for a few months there. I didn't much like ARod when he was in Seattle and Texas either, but he has grown on me in NY. Partly because I take a contrarian stance to just about anything the media says, but partly because I see him as more human than a lot of other athletes. He cares a lot more than a lot of guys do after getting their big contract. He still works his ass off to earn it and feels bad when he doesn't. I respect that. I appreciate that he cares so much that it affects his performance, and to some extent can empathize with it (inasmuch as you can ever draw an analogy from club hockey and beer league softball to real pro sports, anyway). I do think that a lot of what he says to the media is phony, but his motivations strike me as different and more genuine than another guy who is just as phony in my eyes (Jeter - he's always saying the right thing too, except with him it's because he's a true leader!) He's been getting undeserved harassment ever since the fight in 04 - first from Boston fans with that and the slap making him public enemy #1 (I've said before on here that while the slap could have been disguised a little better, any player who says he wouldn't have done the same in that situation is lying) and now this season with the errors, the media is really piling on. But it's predictable, because it's something to talk about, and there are so many damn talk shows out there now that they've got to fill the airtime somehow. Now we've moved from the predictable anti-ARod stuff to the predictable anti-anti-ARod stuff. I'm just glad that this means it'll quiet down soon. I'm tired of hearing about it. And with all that said, I was at the game last night and fully expected him to K in a big spot late in the game. So I guess I'm just as bad as everyone else.

posted by Bernreuther at 06:32 PM on August 09

I don't hate Alex, I think he's awesome. I admire his athletisism, and hope he breaks out of his funk....despite being a Red Sox fan. Now with Abreu in the lineup... they look pretty impressive.... have gotten a hold of 1st place and look solid... All i can say is, Veritek... we miss you deeply!

posted by zippinglou at 07:31 PM on August 09

It sounds to me like a whole lot of people who like A-rod are the only ones really claiming that everyone seems to hate him. I don't hate him. He's not important enough to me to like or dislike one way or another. To me him and those guys in NY are just one more team the Tigers have to beat to win it all. They're a team to beat, not a particular guy. Outside of Yankee fans I don't think very many people anywhere give much of a shit about any of them as individuals.

posted by commander cody at 09:32 PM on August 09

Maybe it's a case of what have you done for me (or the Yankees since I am not a Yankee fan) lately. +10 points for graymatters! Just kidding. Sure, 2/3rd of the way through 2006, Giambi is outhitting ARod. But the NY fans were disliking ARod in 2005 when he was winning the f*cking MVP award. Most Valuable Player in the league. Booed by his home team fans. The only other case that immediately springs to mind of home team fans treating a superstar with such mindless anger would be Mike Schmidt and the Philadelphia fans. When Boston turned on their greatest hitter, at least they could point at Williams' surly attitude as a reason. ARod doesn't even have that as a reason.

posted by grum@work at 12:18 AM on August 10

I agree Grum. I think there's a similar mind-set in Phialdelphia and New York. You hear about it all the time, the so-called blue collar fan. Guys like Schmidt and A-Rod make the game look so easy that sometimes their grace is mistaken for apathy. Schmidt became the lightning rod for all that was wrong with the Phillies during their under-acheiving years because he was the star of the team. A-Rod will be the lightning-rod for high-priced free agents who blew a 3-oh ALCS lead to Boston.

posted by SummersEve at 04:06 AM on August 10

I'm with Commander Cody. I'm not really sure why Yankees fans hate him, but if I were a Mariners fan, I would definitely loathe him. Was it less than a year after he said that he wanted to spend his whole career in Seattle, that he took the big money and headed to New York? It was really too bad; the M's seemed like they had the makings of a dynasty (which would have been great for the sport to have one not coming from NY), but it was torn apart by greediness. A-Rod was just one of many that fled the team, but he became a poster child for disingenuousness. Not saying that he shouldn't have taken the big money, but cut the team and fan loyalty bullshit, if you really don't mean it. Other than that, I think the knock on A-Rod is that he's just not tough (which may or may not be true). As a Sox fan, I can't stand Derek Jeter, but he's a hardnosed ballplayer, and I respect him. Rodriguez just doesn't seem to have the same ethic. And when a guy gets paid a mint to play ball; all the talent in the world or not, he should lay everything out there. Like I say, this may not be fair as I don't watch the Yankees play all that much, just my impression from the games I have seen him play in.

posted by psmealey at 05:17 AM on August 10

I'm not really sure why Yankees fans hate him, I'm not really sure that Yankee fans do hate him. Being a Yankee fan myself, I'm not really sure that this whole "hatred of A-Rod" thing isn't the usual case of a mountain being made out of a molehill. And I do think that there are certain people who'd be liking him well enough and would be considering him plenty "real" if the Red Sox had got him.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:07 AM on August 10

Ooooh, burn! /me waits for Jerseygirl's retort. Does it get any better than a Yankees-Sox cat fight?

posted by qbert72 at 07:48 AM on August 10

I grew to like A-Rod pretty well during his stint with the Rangers, to me, he was a team player in every sense, and, more often than not, brought his A-game to the ballpark with him every day, and was always a gentleman and a sportsman. One reason I don't sweat Bonds' achievements too much, is, I think A-Rod will surpass any HR mark that Barry sets. I think he has made the adjustment to 3B pretty well, and made the move without complaining. And I damn sure can't blame him for taking the money Tom Hicks threw his way.

posted by mjkredliner at 08:22 AM on August 10

I don't see how anyone can suggest that he's a fake and isn't real. None of these guys are. There are probably 8 guys in the whole league that don't spout dated cliches in the place of actual comments. And can you blame the other guys for not? However, it just is what it is and if winning an MVP isn't enough to sway the fans, than he has to hit a Ortiz-style playoff homer to make good. Nothing else will suffice.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:28 AM on August 10

Does it get any better than a Yankees-Sox cat fight? Yes, but only when we start talking about Jesus. Ohs noes! Go troll somewhere else lbb!

posted by jerseygirl at 08:33 AM on August 10

A-Rod will be the lightning-rod for high-priced free agents who blew a 3-oh ALCS lead to Boston. This statement is totally unfair. The middle of the lineup, not just A-rod, dissappeared in that series. First we bitch about him not being a team player, then we bitch when he can't single handed win a playoff series against a really tough ball club. Sounds like there is no concrete reason to hate A-rod. the New York baseball fan's mentality can be summed up rather easily: we have short memories and even shorter tempers.

posted by HATER 187 at 08:56 AM on August 10

Other than that, I think the knock on A-Rod is that he's just not tough (which may or may not be true). As a Sox fan, I can't stand Derek Jeter, but he's a hardnosed ballplayer, and I respect him. Rodriguez just doesn't seem to have the same ethic. And when a guy gets paid a mint to play ball; all the talent in the world or not, he should lay everything out there. So what he really needs to do is catch a ball in foul territory and then fling himself into the stands. Or to field a groundball and do a nice turnaround leaping throw instead of simply stopping, planting and throwing. Or stand on the top step of the dugout and do animated fist pumps when someone else gets a base hit.

posted by grum@work at 09:03 AM on August 10

Grum. he could also run over his rookie second baseman, whose ball it is, in center field, risking injury to both players, to make a catch. (I never understood why that one was a top web gem or whatever ESPN is calling them these days.) Speaking of plays out in center Cano made a great over the shoulder basket catch last night during the no-hit bid. I don't blame A-Rod or even the offense for blowing a 3-0 lead. I blame Rivera for WALKING THE F-ING LEADOFF HITTER. Inexusable. He's a good enough pitcher to not do that, and giving the leadoff guy a free base is one of the surest ways to give up a run. It drives me crazy. Then everyone in the world knew that they'd steal 2nd, and they just let him go. It's not as if Roberts is some legendary speed merchant. That, and Tom Gordon leaving them in an impossible situation the following night, gave the Sox all the momentum and confidence in the world. At that point it didn't matter if the Yankees hit, the Sox would just have hit more. (I was using some very bad words though during game 6 when they made Schilling and his fucking sock and 87 mph fastball look dominant. He wasn't pitching any better then than he did when he got shelled in Game 2.)

posted by Bernreuther at 09:17 AM on August 10

Wow...grum just described the perfect baseball player! If only such a guy existed, and, oh, I don't know, played shortstop in the biggest media market in the world, and was a fairly good-looking guy with his own perfume, why, he'd be an All-Star every year and people would surely compare him with the best ever! If only there were such a person... Hey l_b_b, I believe in a two-way street: if I feel like somebody on my favorite squad is underachieving, I hate 'em. I'm good that way. Plus, if A-Rod does underachieve for the Yankees, better for me as a Red Sox fan. No hatin' here!

posted by The_Black_Hand at 09:18 AM on August 10

So what he really needs to do is catch a ball in foul territory and then fling himself into the stands. Meeeee-yow!

posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:30 AM on August 10

I didn't mean I agree with A-Rod taking the blame for the Boston series. But for years, the Yanks had that dream team that just appeared to mesh together so perfectly. Then they started trying to recreate it with some high ticket players and it hasn't worked. Fans are gonna blame someone. Enter A-Rod. I didn't agree with the crap Schmidt got either. But it seems one person will always take the blame.

posted by SummersEve at 09:32 AM on August 10

Yeah man, I wasn't specifically calling you out or anything. I don't particularly like A-rod but I think a lot his criticism (especially last season) is totally unwarented. I thought accquring him was totally unnessecary. The yanks have had more success with mere mortals like Brocious, Martinez, and O'neil as opposed to the all superstar line up of the past 4-5 years.

posted by HATER 187 at 09:53 AM on August 10

Or to field a groundball and do a nice turnaround leaping throw instead of simply stopping, planting and throwing. Experts: 'Derek Jeter Probably Didn't Need To Jump To Throw That Guy Out'

posted by holden at 10:20 AM on August 10

I'm starting to suspect that grum has a crush on Jeter, and is playing hard to get.

posted by qbert72 at 10:34 AM on August 10

Experts: 'Derek Jeter Probably Didn't Need To Jump To Throw That Guy Out' I swear that I didn't know about that "article". That fact that it included mention of "the fist pump" is just icing on the cake. I'm starting to suspect that grum has a crush on Jeter, and is playing hard to get. Oh, I do have a (baseball) crush on him, and I would definitely NOT play hard to get! I'd kill to have Jeter on the Jays as the starting shortstop. We have a slick fielding guy right now (McDonald), but I'd push him infront of a bus if it meant Jeter could play for Toronto. Jeter as a player: fantastic and I do enjoy watching him play (leaping and fist pumping the whole time) Jeter as a deified icon of baseball perfection: not so much

posted by grum@work at 11:07 AM on August 10

I want to respond here, but if I stay in this thread any longer I'm going to have an aneurism.

posted by BullpenPro at 11:12 AM on August 10

I swear that I didn't know about that "article". That fact that it included mention of "the fist pump" is just icing on the cake. What cake? It's the Onion, grum.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 12:18 PM on August 10

Alex Rodriguez is a young Barry Bonds. Scary, once (okay, in this case, one of a few)- in- a- generation talent and ability. In 10 years, we'll all be saying "Man, Alex is a surefire hall of famer, but why is he so surly with the press?!" It's because we manufacture these things. We, the people. Other than taking that contract- and I for one wouldn't blame him!- he's never given us anything to hate or even dislike. He's a decent guy, reasonably bright, plays like a god, and shows up every day without any complaint. His off-field activities are uncontroversial and in some cases worthy of merit. In short, he's a great player and a pretty decent person. Alex is a human being, being human (tm, J.D. Fortune)... as is Barry Bonds, and any of these other people we like to demonize in the press for some quickie TV filler time. Hell, Ted Williams is deified for his ability, but he not only was maligned in the press at the time he played, he had a love/hate relationship with the fans... he also never won a trophy. Bonds, Griffey, now A-Rod are among some of the best players in the last two decades who've yet to actually win the World Series. More than any other sport baseball prevents one player from "carrying" a team, ergo we can't malign players for not winning the big one. It's a shame we're overlooking one of the greatest talents to ever play the game- and who should have stayed at SS over the far, far, far less capable Jeter- because of stuff that's only in our heads, stuff that doesn't even matter.

posted by hincandenza at 02:22 PM on August 10

Oh, I do have a (baseball) crush on him This is a story I heard third hand so don't hold me to this but.....This guy I know is a limo driver in NYC. He's a die hard Yankee fan (he has a tatoo of the NY logo on his leg) You bring up any yankee player and he just goes nuts "fuck yeah paul o'neil, that guy was the best" or "fucking A, Matsui, Damon and Sheff is gonna be the nassiest out field EVER" but if you bring up number 2 he's all "don't fucking bring up Jeter, ever, never, ever" Apparently this friend of a friend was working one night and his limo service picked up Derek Jeter and a couple of friends from a club in Manhattan around 12:30. Everyone gets dropped off leaving just Jeter and my friend of a friend in the limo. He asks Pat (that's my friend of friends name, Pat) if he can drop him off at another club and be back at 4 (in the NYC our bars stay open until 4 AM) The bar he takes him to looks just like the Blue Oyster Club from the police academy movies. Very guy friendly, if you catch my drift. The point of my story, Grum you got a shot. I feel like Jude Law telling the sandwich story in I heart huckabees when I tell that story.

posted by HATER 187 at 02:57 PM on August 10

That's cool. I just vomitted in my hands. You know, for what it's worth. (Jeter... Yeah, I'd fuck him. He's kinda cute... What? Look me in the eye and tell me you wouldn't. Well, I don't believe you. He's dreamy.)

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 03:19 PM on August 10

So your friend's friend Pat is gay?

posted by jerseygirl at 03:19 PM on August 10

It's Pat

posted by graymatters at 03:35 PM on August 10

What cake? It's the Onion, grum. I'm well aware of that. That's why I used the quotes around "article". The fact that it made fun of the first thing I commented on (jumping throws) was great. That it threw in the last line about the "fist pump", which I also joked about, was the "icing" for me.

posted by grum@work at 04:07 PM on August 10

grum, I think the article was actually making fun of people who get wrought up about the jumping throws and whatnot. Something about "Experts: 'Derek Jeter Probably Didn't Need To Jump To Throw That Guy Out'" just, I dunno, sorta suggests that, you know?

posted by lil_brown_bat at 04:45 PM on August 10

None are so blind, lbb. You call out jg, saying she'd be talking out the other side of her face if A-Rod played for the Sox, then you can't see an article about Derek Jeter is an article about Derek Jeter. How's the petard?

posted by yerfatma at 05:33 PM on August 10

I think the article was actually making fun of people who get wrought up about the jumping throws and whatnot. No, the article was making fun of Derek Jeter. The humourous part was the excessive effort Jeter put into getting out a player that was obviously not going to beat out any throw. It then portrayed Jeter as a bit too celebratory about making the play. Since there was no comment from the "experts" about the fist pump, obviously they aren't making fun of the "experts". If they were making fun of the "experts", they would have described them in a humourous manner. There is no description, except for his name and broadcast. You know what kills comedy fast? Having to explain it to people.

posted by grum@work at 06:28 PM on August 10

No, the article was making fun of Derek Jeter. Have it your way, but the title makes no sense in that case.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 07:13 PM on August 10

I thought the article was about grum.

posted by qbert72 at 07:42 PM on August 10

Have it your way, but the title makes no sense in that case. Because it's satire.

posted by jerseygirl at 08:32 PM on August 10

Zing! I knew it would come.

posted by qbert72 at 08:41 PM on August 10

To return to the topic of the thread...I now hate A-Rod because of the number 19. Two minutes ago it was because of the number 18.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 09:22 PM on August 10

what happened? I can barely watch my own team this last week, nevermind yours.

posted by jerseygirl at 09:28 PM on August 10

what happened? I can barely watch my own team this last week, nevermind yours. Just about the worst throwing error I have ever seen. He fielded the ball, and granted, he had a runner coming down the baseline and not a lot of time...but the throw to second was ten feet off if it was an inch. It wasn't even in the right zip code. I suppose if you're gonna rack up error number 19, you might as well make it a big one. You know...I don't hate the guy. But my formative years of Yankee fandom were back in the days of Graig Nettles, and...well, as a third baseman, A-Rod will never be the man. 'nuff said.

posted by lil_brown_bat at 10:02 PM on August 10

But my formative years of Yankee fandom were back in the days of Graig Nettles, and...well, as a third baseman, A-Rod will never be the man. 'nuff said. LBB, whether you like it or not, I am now your friend for life.

posted by BullpenPro at 10:49 PM on August 10

.

posted by goddam at 11:20 PM on August 10

awwwwwww............

posted by commander cody at 11:45 PM on August 10

Ok, I just heard enough A-Rod bashing for one day...I am a die-hard Mets fan and was devastated when A-Rod decided against Los Mets. He is a New York Yankee and is by far, the best player on that team. I HATE the Yankees but cannot bring myself to hate the greatest hitter of my generation. Yes, #13 does play for our cross town rivals, but he is still my favorite player. Do people hate him for the 10 year, $252 million dollar contract that he signed with Texas or does the short term memory loss of Yankee fans come into play? (Last years MVP anyone?) I cannot understand why people over-react about A-Rod not being able to come thru in the clutch when there are guys on that ballclub that should be able to have his back on any given day. I know, I know, A-Rod is supposed to be THE guy. But com'on people, it's a team game. One guy cannot and will not do it alone, ever. The boos that he's been recieving at Yankee stadium is the most embarrassing scene that I've heard of since the Eagles fans threw snowballs at Santa a few years ago, but then again, we are talking about the Yankees so.......does anyone really care?

posted by BornIcon at 11:48 AM on August 11

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