04/17/24
March 25, 2006
The End of an Era in Houston: After an incredible 15 year run that saw 4 All-star appearances, 449 Home Runs and one memorable World Series experience, Houston Astros icon Jeff Bagwell has finally met a challenge that he cannot beat: his ailing chronic right throwing shoulder. And its such a shame too...
posted by chemwizBsquared to baseball at 11:29 PM - 26 comments
A lot of hitters appear helpless against the heat of Bobby Jenks. So what's new?
posted by rchugh at 07:05 AM on March 26, 2006
Now, what will Roger rocket do?
posted by Bill Lumbergh at 07:47 AM on March 26, 2006
Bagwell has a had great career, and the Astros have benefited enormously from him. But last year in the big show he was totally ineffective, which was sad not only for the Astros, but especially for Bagwell, as it pretty much told his future baseball story.
posted by roberts at 11:04 AM on March 26, 2006
Jeff Bagwell was definitely one of the greats and one of last of truly old school players...someone who stayed with his team, through thick and thin...ineffective or not in the last year, he has left a lasting impression on the astro's organization
posted by FozzFest at 12:47 PM on March 26, 2006
I'll go out on a limb and say the Astros are gonna be okay or really bad this season. Having two stars retire and not be clear about it is distracting to the rest of the team. But I did love watching Bags go about his game. He's always been a truly great ambassador for the the sport and, from comes across in interviews, he's a pretty darned good all around guy.
posted by fenriq at 12:50 PM on March 26, 2006
Baggy has had a great career, and now can relax and await the call from the Hall of Fame. He and Biggio will be the first HOF'ers from Houston in a long time. Can anyone name the last person inducted in an Astro's uniform?
posted by nflhou02 at 12:54 PM on March 26, 2006
A lot of hitters appear helpless against the heat of Bobby Jenks. So what's new? The difference between looking helpless and actually being helpless. Bagwell seemed so outmatched that I wondered if the Astros should have pinch hit for him.
posted by rcade at 12:54 PM on March 26, 2006
Damn it, i forget which one was last retired...Nolan Ryan (34) or Mike Scott (33)
posted by FozzFest at 01:11 PM on March 26, 2006
Whoops i was thinking retired jerseys for some reason...don't be mad at me..im a cubs fan(used to failure)
posted by FozzFest at 01:13 PM on March 26, 2006
Now, what will Roger rocket do? He may not even notice. You know, the link doesn't say anything about Bagwell retiring. He's just starting the season on the DL. It sounds like he's still planning on getting back into the lineup this year. This eulogy for his career might be premature.
posted by chicobangs at 01:14 PM on March 26, 2006
Can anyone name the last person inducted in an Astro's uniform? I don't think anyone's been inducted with the Astros uniform. Nolan Ryan has the Rangers' "T" on his plaque, Joe Morgan the Reds' "C", etc. Am I missing someone?
posted by dyams at 01:14 PM on March 26, 2006
While Bagwell will be missed, he was not a part of last season's run to the playoffs. In truth, this team returns the same nucleus from last year (sans a certain 42 year old pitcher) with the addition of a solid power hitter who I think could be a difference maker in the middle of the lineup. This team is still Craig Biggio's team, but its now time for Lance Berkman and Morgan Ensberg to assume more leadership roles on the team as well. And don't forget that the Astros still have Roy Oswalt, Andy Pettite and Brandon Backe in that rotation...with Clemens lurking to come out of retirement...along with a solid bullpen paced by Dan Wheeler and Lights Out Lidge. A middle of the pack year? How about another potential World Series Run... The addition of Preston Wilson to the mix should help the team keep the pressure off of Jason Lane and turn Chris Burke into a sort of "super sub" who can play about 4-5 positions and hit in about 4-5 spots in the order. Burke will play in a lot of games this year...he should spell Biggio once a week, Ensberg every blue moon, Lane or Willy (Tavares) every so often and I can even see him taking a game or so from Adam Everett. Its just a shame that Jeff Bagwell can't be a part of the run for one last time...God bless him for the time and effort he has poured into this franchise...
posted by chemwizBsquared at 01:15 PM on March 26, 2006
Dyams... I'll give you a hint: He was not elected based on his statistics! It was Bob Watson, he scored baseballs one millionth run!
posted by nflhou02 at 01:19 PM on March 26, 2006
yeah dyams...everyone else had their surplus of a hall of fame career with other teams...Eddie Matthews was with them for one year...Don Sutton and Robin Roberts for two years....good call on Bob Watson though, i forgot all about that...he was given one million tootsie rolls!
posted by FozzFest at 01:24 PM on March 26, 2006
I'll go out on a limb and say the Astros are gonna be okay or really bad this season. That is definately a bold statement. The first thing that pops into my head is his corkscrew swing, almost driving hisself into the ground.
posted by wingnut4life at 01:27 PM on March 26, 2006
It was Bob Watson since when is bob watson a hall of fame inductee? dyams is right, no one in has been inducted in an astros uniform.
posted by goddam at 01:40 PM on March 26, 2006
Although he hasn't been inducted, he is in the hall of fame...and he may be inducted for his job as g.m. and work with major league baseball...at some point, like maybe 20 years from now
posted by FozzFest at 02:13 PM on March 26, 2006
Bags has always been a class act. If and when he decides to retire, it will be a class act. He has and is a role model for the youth of today, not like Barry.
posted by Tuna at 06:06 PM on March 26, 2006
Player A: - turning 38 years old - 15+ seasons - ~ 450 HR - ~ 1500 RBI - > 150 OPS+ for career - same team his whole career - arguably best hitter in team history - end of career wracked with injuries - minimal contribution to team making World Series in 2005 - won't move on and costs team huge financial burden - loved by fans Player B: - turning 38 years old - 15+ seasons - ~ 450 HR - ~ 1500 RBI - > 160 OPS+ for career - same team his whole career - arguably best hitter in team history - end of career wracked with injuries - minimal contribution to team making World Series in 2005 - doesn't cost team a penny as he moves on to another team - bad-mouthed by ex-fans
posted by grum@work at 10:07 PM on March 26, 2006
Bags has always been a class act. If and when he decides to retire, it will be a class act. He has and is a role model for the youth of today, not like Barry. You do realize that there have been whispers about Bagwell and steroids for a while, right?
posted by grum@work at 10:13 PM on March 26, 2006
That's a great comparison, Grum. You'd think there'd be a little more love for the Hurt.
posted by rcade at 06:38 AM on March 27, 2006
Yes, I was going to bring that up too, grum. The Big Hurt and Bags were both born on the same day as well. And yes - Bagwell is indeed one of the prototypical cases of imagined steroid use. So - HoFer? Some of the numbers say yes - some of them say no. My own personal appraisal is no.
posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 07:52 AM on March 27, 2006
I accidentally left out the following: Player A: - 1 MVP award Player B: - 2 MVP awards
posted by grum@work at 12:59 PM on March 27, 2006
Won't someone please mention the race of these two players?! I'm dying to know....
posted by hincandenza at 04:09 AM on March 28, 2006
I'll go out on a limb and say the Astros are gonna be okay or really bad this season. Those are the kind of limbs I like -- nice big strong limbs... that are already lying on the ground, so the chance of falling is... well... Can anyone name the last person inducted in an Astro's uniform? Dyams... I'll give you a hint: He was not elected based on his statistics! It was Bob Watson, he scored baseballs one millionth run! What in the world are you talking about? A) Bob Watson was not inducted into Baseball's Hall of Fame by any definition of "inducted;" B) He isn't even close to being the last Astros player acknowledged by the Hall of Fame -- are you suggesting the Astros haven't achieved a Hall-worthy event at all since Bob Watson was playing? They did play in some sort of feature event last October, which the Hall tends to recognize from time to time. Grum: I like your comparison, but I'm not sure what, if anything, is being implied. I know that you have been critical of the fans' reaction to Player B, but are you suggesting that Player A is more deserving of the kind of bile being poured forth, or simply that Player B is less deserving of it? From where I sit, Player A still wants to play (understandable) and is still under contract with a club that does not want to honor their own contract. To suggest that Player A should do what is in the best financial interest of the club at this point sounds crazy -- it's not like they're asking him to play left field, they want him to quit the game altogether. Pretty big price to pay, particularly when the guy clearly still thinks he can contribute. As for Player B, I am on the fence. I see what you are saying about showing the guy a little gratitude for what he delivered on the field, but putting myself in their shoes I was a Yankee fan in '70s when they had Reggie, and as much as I enjoyed the victories, I could never bring myself to like that windbag and was overjoyed when he left. I want my "heroes" to be good AND personable, and if Player B's fans don't believe they were getting that whole package, I think maybe they have a right to feel the way they do.
posted by BullpenPro at 11:11 AM on March 29, 2006
It's a shame Bagwell can't play, because he's one of the greats of his generation, but his arm problems had reached a point where his teammates were moving up to the infield grass in spring training so he wouldn't have to throw the ball as far to them. He should have hung it up sooner for surgery or retirement. The Astros shouldn't be wasting time practicing how to compensate for his injury. One thing I've wondered since the Series last year is whether Bagwell's hitting is truly unaffected. Watching him wince at the plate, it seemed like he was helpless against pitchers who brought heat, like Bobby Jenks in game 1.