FanDuel - WFBC

May 12, 2009

Mavericks Fans Declare Open Season on Nuggets' Families: One game after being insulted by Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban (for which he later apologized), the mother of Denver Nuggets player Kenyon Martin had a beer poured on her during game 4 of the series in Dallas and his girlfriend Trina was subjected to frequent obscenities. "By its end, security was permanently perched by Kenyon Martinís mother, who had beer poured on her during the game," the Denver Post reports. "Martin himself, felt compelled to yell into the crowd in defense of his mom during a break in the second quarter."

posted by rcade to basketball at 02:11 PM - 42 comments

It's unfortunate that fans targeted Martin's family, but this was completely foreseeable. They should not have come. Martin inflamed the situation that very day by saying he was going to take care of it, whatever that means. Whatever Cuban called Martin - punk, thug, or whatever - it was true.

posted by bperk at 02:37 PM on May 12

Martin inflamed the situation that very day by saying he was going to take care of it, whatever that means. Whatever Cuban called Martin - punk, thug, or whatever - it was true.

No, actually it was Mark Cuban who "inflamed the situation" by telling Kenyon Martin's mother that her son was a thug, on Mother's Day. No owner should go to the family of a player of the opposing team just to vent his frustration for his team losing which is what Cuban did. I have always liked Mark Cuban but this was all of his own doing and he has acknowledged that. He has shown that he is remorseful for losing his cool but he should know better than to do what he did in the first place.

posted by BornIcon at 02:44 PM on May 12

Game 3 was on Saturday, not Mother's Day.

There's no justification for fans pouring a beer on a player's mom and making other family members feel unsafe at a sporting event. Even if they were trash-talking -- which Martin's mom reportedly has done at games in her hometown of Dallas before -- it's shameful behavior. Cuban and the league should be pulling the season tickets of everyone who can be identified.

I'm a Mavs fan who (mostly) likes Cuban, but this is ridiculous.

posted by rcade at 02:59 PM on May 12

It's unfortunate that fans targeted Martin's family, but this was completely foreseeable. They should not have come.

It's a sad day if this is the solution; don't come, because the fans (and the Dallas Mavericks, who run security) can't control themselves enough not to throw stuff at the innocent family members of players.

Cuban's comments after the fact show he's got some class to him; offering them space in his family's booth and acknowledging that he let them down. That said, I think a big fine should go his way for starting and failing to prevent any of the backlash that Nuggets' family members had to go through. It'll be motivation not to let it happen again.

posted by dfleming at 03:05 PM on May 12

No, actually it was Mark Cuban who "inflamed the situation" by telling Kenyon Martin's mother that her son was a thug, on Mother's Day

Well, he is. She must know it, she raised him. I'm not really familiar with all the playground rules that telling a woman the truth about her grown kid is some big violation. I'm quite sure she has heard way worst about him. Apparently, it was some huge ego breach, but I don't really get it.

Even if they were trash-talking -- which Martin's mom reportedly has done at games in her hometown of Dallas before -- it's shameful behavior.

Only one person poured beer. If everyone else was just cursing, then I think that pulling tickets is excessive.

posted by bperk at 03:35 PM on May 12

Wasn't it not too long ago that NBA players actually went into the stands and began brawling with fans? Hasn't the NBA been plagued by a long history of criminal and thug like behavior? Why would it be surprising the fans, players families and even owners are showing their bad side too.

I am sure plenty of fans at sporting events have wound up with beer on them for trash talking or even rooting for the opposing team. I am not saying it is excusable and I do believe security should have immediately removed the perp for throwing a beer, but why is it being blown up to a big deal when it really seems like a minor episode at a sporting event.

If you ask me the NBA has a major public relations problem and an underlying issue that just won't go away. Until they do a better job of controlling the behavior of their players, and improving the image of the league, it won't surprise me if that mentality begins spilling over to the fans and this type of situation gets much worse.

posted by Atheist at 04:37 PM on May 12

I'm not really familiar with all the playground rules that telling a woman the truth about her grown kid is some big violation.

In what way is Kenyon Martin a thug? He plays tough physical basketball, but he doesn't have much of a rep for off-court junk, and during this season has been more of a leader -- which is one reason the Nuggets are one win from the west finals.

We've been through this topic before, but do you really have no idea how a black guy would take it if you called him a "thug"? Or even worse, said it it to his mom? Maybe I lead a sheltered life and the word has become no big deal, but to me it sounds like something that could easily get answered with a fist.

I'm aware that Darrent Williams was shot outside a club that hosted Martin's 2007 birthday party in Denver, but Martin had left before the incident.

posted by rcade at 04:46 PM on May 12

why is it being blown up to a big deal when it really seems like a minor episode at a sporting event [?]

Because you don't want another Malice at the Palace. The subset of NBA fans who can (a) afford courtside seats and (b) like fan/player violence has to be pretty small.

posted by rcade at 04:49 PM on May 12

Gina Miller's twitter feed last night was pretty interesting during these events:

Fracas at the AAC....someone getting ejected. Rex Chapman upset with someone....looks like a #Nuggets wife involved about 17 hours ago from web

Involved a woman sitting in Nuggets seats. Rex Chapman was talking to security...they are both no longer in seats. They were NOT ejected. about 17 hours ago from web

Tim McMahon of DMN reporting that someone threw something at #Nuggets bench. (woman & chapman still gone) about 17 hours ago from web

Humble had to tell fans not to throw things on floor.....that was received with a shower of boos. about 17 hours ago from web

Now an expletive-filled chant starting in one little section of AAC. NOW it's "REfs you suck!!!" Whole arena chanting. about 17 hours ago from web

I've been to countless Mavs games over the past six or seven seasons, including some very hotly contested playoff matchups (one that sticks out is this OT matchup against the Spurs in 06 that ended after midnight local time) and I've never seen crap like this, at least up in my third-tier seats. As a Mavs fan and former season-ticket plan holder, it's flat-out embarrassing.

posted by Ufez Jones at 05:05 PM on May 12

She also tweeted last night: "Kenyon Martin threatened our very own Steve Dennis, btw. Said he would do to him what he planned to do to Cuban (paraphrasing)." Maybe Martin also gets to write a check with lots of zeroes to the NBA.

posted by rcade at 05:25 PM on May 12

From NBA.Com reporter Art Garcia, who was courtside:

Nuggets forward Kenyon Martin came over to the sideline to the defense of his mother, Lydia Moore, who is sitting about six rows up near the Denver end.

Martin unleashed a profanity-filled tirade at Dallas fans sitting around his mother.

"You [expletive] better cut the [expletive]," he shouted, as team personnel tried to pull him back to the huddle. "You're going to get [expletive] up."

Martin then said to his mother: "Somebody do something to you, you better tell me. I'm going to [expletive] somebody up."

A couple thoughts:

1. How close is Martin getting to a suspension-worthy offense here? Threatening fans with violence is seriously stupid in the post-Malice in the Palace NBA.

2. If this goes to game 6, the NBA is nuts if they allow Martin's family and friends to sit in the arena among Dallas fans.

posted by rcade at 05:35 PM on May 12

Martin's idiocy, aside from the fact that tends to commit fouls that border on assault?

Martin and teammate Alonzo Mourning almost fought when Martin mocked Mourning's life-threatening kidney disease.[2] Martin later admitted that he had made a mistake and apologized to Mourning. He received a taste of his own medicine when then Knicks forward Tim Thomas remarked on Martin's speech impediment[3] and eye twitching tic during a game, as well as calling Martin a "fugazi", a slang term for a fake or fraud.[4][5]

However, during that playoff series against the Los Angeles Clippers, Martin was suspended from the Denver Nuggets indefinitely for "conduct detrimental to the team."[6] During halftime of game two of the first round series, Martin got into an argument with head coach George Karl over his playing time, and proceeded ironically to refuse to play for the second half of the game.

During the third-quarter of a 2006 game against the Chicago Bulls, a fan sitting two rows behind Martin yelled at him, "Suit up, you chump," referring to the fact Martin was in the midst of one of his increasingly frequent stints on the injured reserve and in street clothes behind the Nuggets bench. All accounts indicate that the fan did not use any profanities. At that point, Martin is said to have stood up, pointed at the heckler, and then motioned to one of his 'bodyguards' to go confront the heckling fan, ordering "shut him up". His friend then stood up and yelled at the heckler, "Shut your mouth before we take you outside and beat your (expletive)!." He also apparently screamed at a Nuggets fan named Don Miller--who, along with his teenage son, happened to be sitting next to the heckler--calling him a "fat (expletive) white boy." Martin was subsequently fined $15,000 and cautioned to no longer bring his entourage to games.

And, of course, you can bring in Darrent Williams' shooting, considering the party was thrown for Martin and there were apparently a number of known members of the Crips gang in attendance. Martin's quote about the death"

"I was there. He was there. I left. I saw him. That was about the extent of it," Martin told The Denver Post. "It is what it is. It's an unfortunate thing."

Yeah, doesn't sound like a thug at all to me.

posted by wfrazerjr at 10:29 PM on May 12

That's minor stuff, Frazer. He exchanged trash talk with a teammate and an opponent, got into a tiff with his coach that's long since been worked out to both of their satisfaction, and got into one nasty argument with fans.

The only thing you bring up that isn't minor is the Darrent Williams incident, but Martin's party was at a public nightclub, he wasn't one of the athletes who organized the party, and he left more than two hours before the shooting occurred. How is any of that a reflection on him?

Martin plays the game rough, postures like a badass and is an intimidating presence on the court, but I think you're too quick to call him a thug. And I say all of this as a Mavs fan who's watching the guy beat my team up. I'm no fan of the guy, but I respect his game.

posted by rcade at 11:47 PM on May 12

Well said rcade

posted by Athlexic at 03:34 AM on May 13

Well played, rcade.

posted by BornIcon at 09:04 AM on May 13

That's minor stuff, Frazer.

Martin has a pattern of wanting to fight people, assaulting people while he is playing the game, and overall lacking good judgment. Sure, he plays hard, but he also can't get his emotions under control. Further, he embraces this bad boy image and always has. It's not like Cuban called Tim Duncan a thug or anything. Martin has earned this reputation through many years of acting like an ass.

posted by bperk at 10:12 AM on May 13

It's not like Cuban called Tim Duncan a thug or anything. Martin has earned this reputation through many years of acting like an ass.

Acting like an ass is not the same as being a thug. In Jersey where I'm from, a thug is nothing more than a common criminal. Someone with little regard for their own well being let alone John Q. Public's.

K-Mart has always played with his emotions on his sleeve but there have been players in the NBA that have played that way as well and no owner of the opposing team have went up to that players mother and said that your son is a thug after his team lost.

Mark Cuban made a terrible mistake and owned up to it. He has apologized to K-Mart and to his family because he knew after the fact, that what he did was wrong. It doesn't matter if anyone thinks that K-Mart is a thug or whatever, Mark Cuban is the owner of the Dallas Mavericks and he is in no position to go up to anyone's mother to disrespect her son.

Anyone remember when Josh Howard, a prominent player for the Mavericks, said that he would not stand during the pledge of allegiance because he's black? Why didn't Cuban go up to Howard's mom and tell her that her son is ignorant or something along those lines for even saying something ridiculous as that? Why didn't Cuban go to Dirk Nowitzki's mom and tell her that her son is a dumbass for getting played out by a gold digger right under his nose? Oh yeah, because they play both for his team, that's right.

posted by BornIcon at 11:56 AM on May 13

I think there's a mixed message here. We celebrate the old-school Detroit Pistons for their "bad boy" image and on-court toughness, as the reaction to the recent death of Chuck Daly showed. Daly was one of the first to recognize that the NBA is not a finesse game any more. Players bang into each other like linemen whenever somebody crashes the paint or positions for a rebound. (As an aside, I hated the Pistons back then.)

Dirk Nowitzki was asked about Martin recently in reference to a hard foul, and his reaction was that it was good play. He didn't express an ounce of outrage. If you want to succeed in today's NBA, and you're not a guard out there sniping three pointers, you gotta be willing to get all Godzilla vs. Rodan. Sean Bradleys need not apply.

I'm pretty new to noticing Martin. But in game 1 of the Mavericks/Nuggets series, he led a team that outmuscled and bulled the Mavs all night long, and it has set the tone for the entire series. The Mavs have been playing great basketball lately, and thoroughly dominated the Spurs. The Nuggets are beating them by taking the physical game to a new level, and it makes me wonder whether the Lakers can take it.

Any aspect of Martin's thug rep that involves his tough play on the court seems unfair to me. You gotta be a badass to play his position well.

posted by rcade at 11:58 AM on May 13

Also, I was looking for some bio info on Martin and found a longer list of off-court altruism than I expected:

  • Board member and active participant in the American Institute of Stuttering
  • Donated $1,000 to Asian Tsunami relief efforts for every point he scored against San Antonio (26) on 1/8/05 and every rebound vs. Houston (10) on 1/9/05.
  • Took part in the Nuggets Read to Achieve Kickoff with Anchor Center for the Blind at the Denver Zoo in 2004.
  • Provided meals to the Denver Rescue Mission as part of a Turkey Tour last Thanksgiving.
  • Took part in the Nuggets "Art of Sport" program, which encourages participation in visual arts in elementary schools.
  • Also participated in the "Eat Right" campaign, which promotes healthy eating habits for middle school students.
  • Attended the NBA Players Relief Game in Houston on 9/11/05 benefiting victims of Hurricane Katrina and made an undisclosed donation.
  • Also helped relief efforts by donating funds to the Greg Buckner Foundation's relief drive in Denver.
  • Spoke at an assembly at Montbello High School in September 2006 as part of the school's "Pass on Violence" campaign.
  • Since joining the Nuggets, has purchased tickets to every home game for less fortunate families.
  • Spokesman for the March of Dimes
It would only take one high profile screw up to prove me wrong, but my gut here is that Martin's a better guy than his rep. ESPN writer Jeff Shleman says of him, "Even though he tries to be a bad-ass in the NBA, Kenyon is actually one of the nicest guys I ever covered. He thought about questions before answering, was always willing to talk, etc. Plus it was simply amazing to see how far he came in terms of speaking. When he was young, he really struggled with his stuttering, but it got so much better."

In the heat of the controversy with Cuban, Martin told a reporter something I thought was kinda interesting: "I don't back away from nobody except the law." That comment's half badass and half conscientious citizen.

posted by rcade at 12:13 PM on May 13

Any aspect of Martin's thug rep that involves his tough play on the court seems unfair to me. You gotta be a badass to play his position well.

Denver does get lots of his toughness from him (as the Nets did before them). He just has trouble keeping the intensity within the rules of the game. He collects flagrant fouls like Rasheed Wallace collects technical fouls. Once in NJ, he asked to be benched as the playoffs neared because he didn't want to end up suspended for the playoffs.

Interestingly, this is not the first time a team owner has called him a thug. The Maloofs accused him of thuggery as well. I believe he subsequently broke both of their legs.

posted by bperk at 12:39 PM on May 13

So difficulty containing one's emotions and intensity = THUG. I've never come across that definition before.

Its a sad day when people think the appropriate solution is for the family to stay home because fans can't act like adults, instead taking cues from someone as foolish as Cuban. Don't pretend that Dallas fans acted this way in response to Martin stating he would "take care of this." Did anyone really think that Martin was going to show up at Cuban's doorstep and beat his ass or something? The fans act this way because Cuban's actions give them tacit approval.

posted by curlyelk at 12:58 PM on May 13

It doesn't matter if anyone thinks that K-Mart is a thug or whatever, Mark Cuban is the owner of the Dallas Mavericks and he is in no position to go up to anyone's mother to disrespect her son.

Exactly. Parents, friends and relatives of opposing teams should be off-limits. Period. Say what you want to the players but keep the families out of it. Cuban's actions were particularly egregious given that he is the owner of the team. He did apologize and own up to his actions but it was still a disgraceful act by someone who should know better.

The Maloofs accused him of thuggery as well. I believe he subsequently broke both of their legs.

That's not an act of thuggery. That's a public service.

posted by cjets at 01:07 PM on May 13

The Maloofs accused him of thuggery as well. I believe he subsequently broke both of their legs.

That's not an act of thuggery. That's a public service.

My sentiments exactly. I was actually going to send K-Mart a fruit basket since we all know that a fruit basket makes for a lovely gift.

posted by BornIcon at 01:12 PM on May 13

That's minor stuff, Frazer. He exchanged trash talk with a teammate and an opponent, got into a tiff with his coach that's long since been worked out to both of their satisfaction, and got into one nasty argument with fans.

Trash talk with a teammate? He made fun of Alonzo Mourning's kidney disease! A tiff with a coach? He quit on his team in the playoffs! One nasty argument with fans? He sent one of his entourage over to a fan to verbally threaten him and was subsequently banned from having those people at games!

Jesus, if you want to gloss it over, at least call it what it is. You make it sound as if he had to sit the corner for pulling Susie's pigtails. That's a pretty good record of douchebaggery, all of which took place on the court.

For more information, I direct you to SI's article on Martin back in 2002, when Martin was whistled for SIX flagrant fouls and suspended a total of seven games.

If you want to point to Martin's offcourt record, that's fine. Michael Vick had two charitable foundations and donated a fair amount of money. He's no thug, right?

I'm not condoning Cuban's actions. Although I think if you're the mother of the guy knocking the home team's star on the floor (and you apparently like to run your mouth), then you probably should expect to get some grief -- it shouldn't come from a team owner or official.

But I judge the guy by what he does on the court (I brought up the Williams' shooting because you did, and I don't think he gets a pass for hanging out with Crips and showing no apparent concern over the death). And on the court, he's a failed overall No. 1 pick who gets by in the NBA by being a shutdown defender -- which he partially accomplishes by being a thug on the hardwood.

posted by wfrazerjr at 08:32 PM on May 13

I can't believe you're going back to a 2002 incident to bolster your case that Martin's a thug. That's so old the country wasn't even at war then and people still put their money in banks.

I don't think it's fair to treat a couple lines cut-and-pasted from a Wikipedia article as if it's the total picture of the man. You can dismiss the rest if you like, the way you shrug off the time he put into charities, but it's not a very thoughtful take.

Know a lot of thugs who would let themselves be the poster child for people who stutter, join a stuttering charity's board and speak at its events? Most pro athletes would sooner admit they're being treated for ED.

The guy brought his mother to live with him and has family around him all the time -- his sister just called a Dallas radio show to respond to a host's claim that he's a thug -- and he says stuff like this: "with my mom just getting to know [my girlfriend] and the person she is, that meant a lot to me. If Mom approves, then I guess you're OK. . . . and my mom loves her to death." And this: "Me and my sister have been close our whole lives. Never had a serious argument, never had a serious fight, never had a serious disagreement. Most siblings, they get into some kind of scuffle, or scrap growing up. Never me and my sister. Not once."

When I hear a famous athlete called a thug, I look to see if they've ever been charged with or convicted of a serious crime. If they haven't, I think it's an insult to the hard-working thugs to group people with them who haven't paid their dues.

Particularly people who put a ginormous butt-ugly kiss tattoo on their neck to mark themselves as whipped and can't shut up about how much they love their family.

If you want to believe the caricature, I've run out of ways to convince you otherwise. He's Thuggy Thuggerson of the Thenver Thuggets.

posted by rcade at 10:00 PM on May 13

Any aspect of Martin's thug rep that involves his tough play on the court seems unfair to me. You gotta be a badass to play his position well.

The NHL teams each employ a player to specifically be the badass, I expect the NBA does much the same. But a hockey player's mom might enjoy if the thug label was put on her son.

Particularly people who put a ginormous butt-ugly kiss tattoo on their neck to mark themselves as whipped...

Aside from KMart, he also holds the nickname KrappyTats.

posted by BoKnows at 10:15 PM on May 13

Although I think if you're the mother of the guy knocking the home team's star on the floor (and you apparently like to run your mouth), then you probably should expect to get some grief -- it shouldn't come from a team owner or official.

Actually, just because a pro athlete plays though defense doesn't give anyone the right to say anything to that pro athletes mother. What has this world come to when someone's family member, specifically their mother, isn't off-limits in the world of pro sports? So now, a member of the losing team has the right to go up to an opposing player's mom and share his grief & pain with her? Give me a break!

Mark Cuban, in his own admission, made a terrible, terrible mistake by what he did when he went up to KMart's mother. For anyone to make it sound as if Cuban had every right to do what he did are truly missing the point...so I'm going to tell your mom on you.

posted by BornIcon at 09:05 AM on May 14

Actually, just because a pro athlete plays though defense doesn't give anyone the right to say anything to that pro athletes mother.

Mark Cuban has the right to say anything to anybody, as do you and I. Whether he chooses to do it in a low class way, that's his decision.

posted by BoKnows at 09:23 AM on May 14

Venturing off the subject here, but people don't have the right to say anything to anybody. Threats to the president, restraining orders, "fire" in a crowded theater, incitement to violence, yadda yadda. None of this covers insulting somebody to his mother, of course, but let's not go crazy.

Back to the subject, I thought the Mavs and Nuggets were pretty kind to each other last night, with the exception of a J.R. Smith thrown elbow in the fourth. Maybe Cuban really is the reason NBA violence happens. He was absent.

posted by rcade at 09:41 AM on May 14

The best part was when Chauncy Billups said that he heard about Cuban's offer to KMart's family to stay in his suite when the Nuggets play in Dallas again and Billups response was somewhere along the lines of 'we don't expect to be going back to Dallas after tonight'...which he was right about.

posted by BornIcon at 10:50 AM on May 14

Rogers, family members make pretty weak character witnesses. What are they going to say -- "Oh, he's a straight-up thug!"

I applaud Martin for his charitable actions. As I said earlier, though, I'm going to judge him on what he does on the court, and on the court, I view him as a thug.

My Google Fu must be weak, as I haven't been able to find a listing for individual flagrant fouls, but six in one season is a pretty good indicator to me a player is not pushing the edge of dirty -- he's already over the cliff. It's not like he's backed off of his style of play, either, as evidenced by the stupidly hard foul that started all this and earned Martin a $25K fine.

Actually, just because a pro athlete plays though defense doesn't give anyone the right to say anything to that pro athletes mother. What has this world come to when someone's family member, specifically their mother, isn't off-limits in the world of pro sports? So now, a member of the losing team has the right to go up to an opposing player's mom and share his grief & pain with her? Give me a break!

If your mother sits in the stands running her mouth about how tough her "BAD ASS YELLOW BOY" is (that's Kenyon's other tattoo -- not thuggish at all, huh?), I would expect she's going to get some grief back. What, she can give it but she can't take it? Maybe you're right ... doesn't sound much like a thug's momma to me at all.

posted by wfrazerjr at 11:24 AM on May 14

well put wfrazerjr

posted by jlh0837 at 11:49 AM on May 14

What's thuggish about "bad ass yellow boy"? I'm asking the question honestly here, not being critical. "Bad ass killa" or "Bad ass 4 life," sure. But "yellow boy" just sounds like he's not getting enough fresh fruit in his diet.

That $25,000 foul helped put Denver in the Western Conference finals for the first time in a quarter century. It set the tone for the whole series.

posted by rcade at 11:55 AM on May 14

It doesn't matter what you or I say rcade, people have already made up their minds about KMart. Having a tattoo on your chest that says, "Bad Ass Yellow Boy" doesn't make him a thug no matter how you try to spin it, it just shows that he couldn't come up with something better. Now, if he were like Tupac and had THUG LIFE written on his stomach, then you would have a valid reason to proclaim KMart to be a thug.

It's funny how we're having these threads written over something that Mark Cuban said and already apologized about. Anyone can have a perception of an individual but like the old saying goes, "Don't judge a book by it's cover." I admire KMart for his charitable contributions and how he has spent his free time giving speeches regarding his stuttering problem and how it affected him growing up. How many of us actually give to charity or spend our free time helping others? Just because Cuban spoke out the side of his mouth to KMart's mom doesn't make him right, it makes Cuban a thug.

/I had to laugh at that myself

posted by BornIcon at 12:16 PM on May 14

for what it's worth, "Bad Ass Yellow Boy" is pretty much a thug song if I ever heard one....just saying

posted by dviking at 04:43 PM on May 14

C'mon, dviking, who among us has not hit the rope for three days and peeped out the girlies up the block to get his di--, er, OK I concede that point.

Given our debate of the past week, I had to laugh when I got to this passage from Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo Sports:

As much as anything, Denver has Dallas owner Mark Cuban to thank for much of the prism with which the public will judge these Nuggets now. He had to go and use that tired code word that comes with rugged, black basketball players in America: thug.

Martin is a nightmare on the floor, but he's no thug. Smith can be a clown, but he's no thug. Anthony has a history, too, but he's grown up a lot.

Thugs? Listen, they seldom make it to the NBA. When they do, they don't have staying power. Cuban has long railed against the stereotypes and labels thrust onto NBA players, and he went a long way toward perpetuating them with that sophomoric snap at K-Mart's mother, Lydia Moore. It's strange: In hockey, they don't use that word with physical players. When they have tattoos, it seems, everything changes.

Scoreboard, Frazer!

Doesn't gangsta rap lose some of its cool if your mom likes it?

posted by rcade at 06:22 PM on May 14

I have yet to see anyone refute the fact that KMart's sole purpose on the court is to instill fear in the other team. Given that the preferred definition of "thug" is "a cruel or vicious ruffian", I'd say he fits the bill in an NBA sense, and that's where it matters to me.

As for offcourt, if you want to go that way, maybe not so much -- but hanging with Crips and having that tat aren't exactly fighting the stereotype.

And Rogers, c'mon -- you're going to point to the scoreboard on something written for Yahoo Sports? Man, that's like pointing out a glowing book review in USA Today.

posted by wfrazerjr at 07:06 PM on May 14

Doesn't gangsta rap lose some of its cool if your mom likes it?

Hell yeah!! If your mom sings along to some old school NWA or even new school G-Unit, it definately loses some of it's edge.

posted by BornIcon at 09:04 AM on May 15

"You [expletive] better cut the [expletive]," he shouted, as team personnel tried to pull him back to the huddle. "You're going to get [expletive] up."

Martin then said to his mother: "Somebody do something to you, you better tell me. I'm going to [expletive] somebody up."

If this is a real quote, isn't it playing right into the Cuban quote?
You can't go "on the road" & talk trash & not expect the hometown fans to respond. His mother brought it on herself. Doesn't make it right, but it would happened @ a little league game, if you sat amongst the other teams fans & started talking sh!t, not to metion an NBA playoff game.
I find it funny that a guys goes out of his way to portray the thug life, then gets upset when someone says "you're a thug"

posted by directpressure at 11:44 AM on May 15

I find it funny that a guys goes out of his way to portray the thug life, then gets upset when someone says "you're a thug"

When it's said to your mother, anyone with enough sense would be upset about that too.

His mother brought it on herself

How? By coming to the game? Com'on now.

posted by BornIcon at 01:07 PM on May 18

"You're going to get fucked up" is said at least once in most big games. It's just that we're hearing it now from a 6'8'' black guy covered in tattoos. I'm sorry - none of the transcripts here are exceptional in their ferocity.

I'm giving Martin the benefit of the doubt on this one. He played the game he always plays and Cuban took it personally and subsequently escalated the situation.

And for fuck's sake - leave your damn Mom at home sometimes. Or get her floor seats at home games and box seats at away games. Don't give people the opportunity, because it only takes one.

And "thug" is a loaded term. Cuban knew this. He if didn't use it purposefully, then he exercised very poor judgement. The games have officials and if Martin is being a ''thug'' then they handle it.

I like Cuban, but goddamn it - how long have you been an owner? Why are you constantly still seen, heard and fined as if it was you're first damn time in the playoffs?

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 06:35 PM on May 18

I like Cuban, but goddamn it - how long have you been an owner? Why are you constantly still seen, heard and fined as if it was you're first damn time in the playoffs?

The good news is that he's usually gone in a round or two.

posted by cjets at 10:17 AM on May 20

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