I am also with weedy. For all the crap that may come up in these threads, there have also been some fantastic comments which aren't worth scrapping just to rid ourselves of the idiot comments.
jerseygirl, I agree in part with what you've written here, and disagree in part. "When a thread gets overrun with comments that constantly need moderating and users that need banning, we're getting too deep into useless territory." -- agreed. In other words, when a thread becomes a series of new idjits spouting the same old stupidities, and it becomes a job to moderate, it's arguably a trainwreck. "But at the same time, if the discourse isn't civil, if people are at each other's throats and we're overrun with morons, it's probably something we need some cooling off time on." Partly agree, partly disagree. I think, frankly, that it depends on who's at whose throat. If some FNG wanders in and spews a bunch of "u must be a FAG hyuk snurk" crap, I don't think that really hurts the community, because said FNG isn't part of the community by any reasonable definition. "We don't need to sit here and defend what we know is correct. Likewise, we don't need to continue creating opportunities on a repeated basis for such arguments when recent attempts to discuss the topic have gone awry." Disagree that the recent attempts to discuss this topic went awry. I have a strong sense that the comments made in these discussion provoked some thought, maybe changed some minds, or helped people to clarify in their own minds the reasons why a particular flavor of bigotry is wrong. There were a lot of really well-stated "this is a stupid prejudice because" statements in these threads; I doubt that any hard-core bigots were convinced, but waverers may have been, and (more importantly) people who were already convinced now have more and better arguments as they have to deal with this bigotry in their lives. So, sorta what Yang said.
I want to apologize for my comments on the gay "lifestyle." I can't even really tell you why I wrote it, but I was wrong. I thought I was trying to argue against another member's obvious bigotry towards gays and screwed it up completely. I know my comments made lbb angry and after I talked to my wife, stood back and looked at the big picture, I don't blame lbb for her response. I was wrong. Flat wrong. I certainly don't want to come across as narrow-minded and I'll ask my previous comments on social issues be considered. I believe this was a one-off mistake and it will never happen again.
FWIW (not much) I'd much rather ban the idjits than the topic; the topic is something that is real, important, and frankly much more interesting than, say, what team is on a big winning streak this week. (I keep meaning to write on why I'm perfectly happy clamping down on idjits on the web when in real life I'm all for their rights to say whatever they want, but it is way, way down on my priority list, sadly :/ (Also, for anyone who thinks that arguing with the idjits 'sharpens blades', I strongly recommend this (slightly offensive, but on point) piece of internet advice.)
Texan, actually, your comment didn't anger me at all -- quite the opposite, it was pretty obvious what side you were on. I wish I'd gotten my comment in ahead of yours -- mine was really in response to the perennial, "I don't hate anybody but I don't support the lifestyle" (or its more hateful variants) which we'd seen pop up several times in the thread. It's one of the most reliable crutches of bigotry to promote the idea that it's about behavior, not identity, and that Those People We Don't Like are doing something that no reasonable person would ever condone (and so of course it's okay to hate 'em). FWIW, I read what you wrote as more saying, "This talk about lifestyle is crap," not, "Oh them gays and their lifestyle!"
If some FNG wanders in and spews a bunch of "u must be a FAG hyuk snurk" crap, I don't think that really hurts the community, because said FNG isn't part of the community by any reasonable definition. It hurts, insomuch as most of us have limited hours in the day, and I'd guess most of us have to deal with idjits at work, school, etc. When I'm doing something for fun (and spofi is definitely one of those things) I don't want to have to deal with more idjits in my precious, limited time. It also scares away new blood who may be confused and think that the idjits are part of the community. Had that thread been my first exposure to spofi, I'm not sure I would have come back.
(Tangent the last: I'm terribly amused that there is an Amaechi-flavored google ad on this thread. The almighty dollar may yet save us from bigotry.)
I'm kind of sorry I kept completely out of that thread (and the others), but I knew I didn't have the time to stay with it this week. I'm glad you guys were on the case. I agree that this is one of the more important topics we'll discuss over the course of the rest of this year, but Gary & Rogers are going to be kept busy over it, and there's probably not a shortcut to make their job easier. The almighty dollar may yet save us from bigotry. Just like with racial & gender integration before this, that's the only agent of change that's ever mattered in American-style popular culture. Which is why I'm optimistic it'll all work out.
Had that thread been my first exposure to spofi, I'm not sure I would have come back. Really, Tieguy? You're not afraid to post jokes at the expense of developmentally disabled kids, why would gay-bashing from a handful of idiots (quickly refuted by a legion of intelligent SpoFites) drive you away?
The biggest reason that Sportfilter is one of only two website communities that I actively participate in is because of the mainly intelligent discourse of its members. The occasional crapper in the works unfortunately reflects society and would find a way to crap in almost any subject and have so before. Handle it the same way as we have in the past. Delete the thread, bam 'em, or whatever it takes. In other words, use the rules the community has already. That's my two cents worth.
I came thisclose to posting something in that thread last night, but I'm glad I closed out the browser instead of clicking on the Post button. It pretty much just said some crap about the American Taliban showing its face at SpoFi, but it would've contributed zero to the discussion. But I do want to warn everybody that Ying Yang Mafia will henceforth be known as Wing Wang Mafia from here on. It's just too damn stupidly funny to ignore. Sorry guy.
Also, for anyone who thinks that arguing with the idjits 'sharpens blades', I strongly recommend this (slightly offensive, but on point) piece of internet advice.) See, I don't buy that. It's the easy way out. I don't know about you, but for the most part, the arenas for thoughtful discourse in this universe are getting fewer and fewer. Don't talk politics, religion, sex, art anywhere. If you don't engage in it then you can't write about it. If you're writing isn't challenged then it doesn't get better. I think we've worked hard around here to creat one that has some merit. Sports is also a great platform for discussing some of the broader social trends in a context that is more agreeable than soapboxing on news sites or "fanboy screamatoriums". I like what we've made and I'm not going to let the jerkasses fuck it up. I'd rather go down trying to discuss relevant topics than not for the sake of annoyance of some disinterested third party who may or may not be reading it. Short version: I don't care what people who don't invest their time into this place think about it. Not one bit.
I vote Weedy for Class President. That was beautiful. Fuck the jerkasses, dammit!
However, I was really quite surprised -- and I hope you won't think less of me for being so -- at the strong denunciation of anti-gay bigotry in statements by SpoFi members, and particularly in how so many people refused to "draw the line" at the showers. I think it says something really good about y'all. Agreed. Maybe it's because I expect the worst, but normally in those threads someone pops up midway and says something along the lines of "this whole thread makes me sad and makes sportsfilter look bad", and I always feel like I'm reading a different thread, because I don't see the horror. As I said in the thread, the two members at the end spouting hate included one that was here a long time but made only a few comments, and another that signed up just to comment in that thread. And I'm talking about more than just "it would make me uncomfortable to shower with an openly gay person". There's no way to completely solve that without never discussing those topics, and I think pushing those topics under the rug, when they have to do with sports, would be the bigger problem. I agree with jersey girl that there is a limit to what we can handle, but I don't think it'll become a problem. Can we perhaps also tighten up the criteria for a FPP in the case where a "new" story is simply the fallout from the original story? We try to keep related topics together if it's a day or so apart. But putting those two topics together would make a huge mega thread. Short version: I don't care what people who don't invest their time into this place think about it. Not one bit. Agreed. If someone comes to sportsfilter, only checks out that thread, and decides to move on based on it only, there's not much we can do about it. I also don't think we should be concerned either.
I know this isn't a link dump, but this seems to fit quite nicely. Youtube video with music.
Whoa, whoa; I just took out his appendix. Hawkguy that was brilliant. I think that it was a good idea to have the two threads separate for a few reasons. One, like gary said, if they were one thread it would be a huge mega thread. Secondly, the threads obviously foster discussion and I think just posting a link into a FPP that is a ways down the front page woudn't foster the same discussion.
Way off topic: please, please, please don't eject the dude who is numbering his posts to 15 before he gets there. It is giving me that same eager anticipation I get at seeing the ball drop on New Years.
...please don't eject the dude who is numbering his posts to 15 before he gets there. Best part so far, I think all but 3 of the comments have been deleted (from checking his profile).
That or he's counting across banned profiles. I cannot wait.
He's only got 15 more to go.
He's only got 15 more to go. Hahahahahahaha!!! No, by all means, don't eject him...hee hee...
clue me in, even if it's in emails. I want to watch the car wreck too.
I can't remember the member name and all his comments have apparently been deleted, in direct counter to BullpenBro's request. It was some guy who signed all of his posts like 11 of 15 Which made me think of "6 of 9" or whatever it was, even though I only liked the original Star Trek.
Well, to be fair, "6 of 9" was pretty easy to like.
Seven of Nine
Yes, Weedy, Jimi's If 6 Was 9 is a great song.
What if 6 turns out to be 9?
I'm kind of sorry I kept completely out of that thread... I have to echo what chico said above. Simply for Weedy's well-stated reason: I'd rather go down trying to discuss relevant topics than not for the sake of annoyance of some disinterested third party who may or may not be reading it. I usually try to be a somewhat moderate voice in these things, but there are too many times when I have let myself get caught up in the emotions of a post. That's why I stayed out of that one. Somehow the guidelines have to be a bit more strictly kept when some of these topics come up. I just don't know of an easy way of doing it without doing a disservice to some of the posters. Yes, the obvious haters have no place among us, but is it not equally biased of the regulars to try to determine who should post and who not? I guess the only valid way of doing it is to audit the body of work of anyone who makes an objectionable post, and if it is lacking in any serious or thoughtful content, then at least ban the poster from further comment on the subject. Ritual beheading (banishment from the site) is still the last resort.
7 ate 9 btw, if you haven't seen the whole Scrubs musical episode Hawkguy linked...you should. hilarious.
What about Three, Four and Five?
btw, if you haven't seen the whole Scrubs musical episode Hawkguy linked...you should. hilarious. Absolutely. The "Everything Comes down to Poo" (YouTube) song had me in stitches.
He's baaaaack.
what a dink.
I don't think he speaks English as his first language. Maybe he thinks he's getting a prize or something. Hey - can I have a prize?
