I agree with you on the proof ... if there IS no proof, then Clemens should go after him in court because he'd have nothing to lose. A lack of proof in court means Clemens' reputation is cleared. But if Clemens has something to hide, he's better off hiding with the news media rather than in the courts. As he has been doing. And that's why I don't believe Clemens.
It is kind of strange, though, how McNamee is trying so hard to incriminate himself. Instead of clamming up he wants to keep pushing the issue that he himself is guilty and should punished, lose his own career and reputation, and who knows what else. I guess he feels at least he'll show Roger Clemens is a liar! Maybe that thought will keep him warm while he sits in jail. It's also interesting to me how baseball is so linked to steroid use, the destruction of young people, ruining the sport, is the focus of Congress and the courts, media, etc., while football goes about, for all intents and purposes, unchallenged. Look at all the gigantic, muscle-bound freaks in the NFL! Isn't Congress concerned about that? It's kind of like wanting to shut down the Playboy enterprise because one chick got her lips enhanced when there's 100 other women walking around the Hef's mansion with fake boobs.
Everybody on this site probably knows how I feel about steroid in baseball, and this Clemons situation is not making me feel any better about the state of affairs in regard to this subject. That being said, If Roger says he didn't take illegal substances to enhance performance, I believe him until something comes down the pike that refutes his statements. My problems is, and always will be, no statement at all. So, please let the situation run its course and see what happens before jumping on the band wagon and tar and feathering this guy about his statements. And, as you also may well know, I personally don't like the man for unrelated reasons besides his supposed steroid use.
"It is kind of strange, though, how McNamee is trying so hard to incriminate himself. Instead of clamming up he wants to keep pushing the issue that he himself is guilty and should punished, lose his own career and reputation, and who knows what else. I guess he feels at least he'll show Roger Clemens is a liar! Maybe that thought will keep him warm while he sits in jail." From what I understand, McNamee has already plead guilty and arranged a deal with prosecutors. So there would be nothing for him to gain, other than not being proven a liar. I like you wonder why McNamee persists, my guess is that he has a big smoking gun hidden. His career is finished already, I cannot see ANY athelete at any level allowing the guy to get close to him or her, and I cannot see an athelete's team allowing McNamee to come near any of it's players.
I would find it more surprising if Clemens didn't roid up, than if he did. This B-12 shit is ridiculous - not to mention familiar ground a la Tejada. Of course, in my book he's still a Hall of Famer. So's Bonds.
Of course, in my book he's still a Hall of Famer. So's Bonds. I totally agree.
Weedy, I agree as well.
i just want to make a plea on behalf of football crew. i like having his dumb-ass around. i can just skip right over his irrelevant, and ill concieved remarks if i want a serious conversation, but sometimes i just want a laugh. in those cases, i can just look for him and imediately be amused. its the same reason i still have a wierd al cd. oh the benifits dont stop there: he also boosts my ego. after-all what can make you feel better about your own inteligence than reading the thaughts of someone who is technically not mentally disabled, but is clearly stupid as hell? plus, as long as he is typing on this site, he isnt doing anything that could cost someone their life! having crew here is a benifit to everyone! crew, i got your back buddy!
The 'taken without knowledge' defense was already used by Bonds.
i just want to make a plea on behalf of football crew. i like having his dumb-ass around. Well, footballcrew did use capitals at the beginning of sentences.
tommy is captialization really that important to you? are you an english teacher or something? i also dont spell very well either. im of the opinion that substance is more important than spelling and punctuation. when i write a paper, my first draft NEVER has caps. i fix it on the final draft, but since my comp prof is not grading me on this site, i dont bother.
it's always good to check this out.
tommy is captialization really that important to you? Yes. are you an english teacher or something? Or something.
Surrrrre they weren't steroids. I plan on watching about 60 seconds of this interview. Just enough to get through the outrage and to a point where I can laugh at the pathetic end to his highly accomplished but morally bankrupt career. Then, I plan on spending the rest of my Sunday night giggling at how worms sometimes turn my way after all.
Clemens can always fall back on the premise he believed the syringe contained something else In a court of law, sure. In public opinion I would hope not. Both Clemens and Pettitte are accused by the same guy of using Performance Enhancing Drugs. He's proven right in Pettitte's case. Now Clemens says everything is true except they weren't steroids. Almost 4 weeks to come up with that defense.
and I cannot see an athelete's team allowing McNamee to come near any of it's players. Please help me out here. Do the organizations have any say in who a player trains with? Shouldn't they?
shots of lidocaine and b12 arnt uncommon in pro sports, or college for that matter. lidocain masks the pain of an injury and b12 supposedly enhances healing. truth be told it is often used so that an injured player can compete. as to any deal mcnamee might have, if it is proven he lied, the deal would be voided
Of course, in my book he's still a Hall of Famer. So's Bonds. posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 12:32 PM CST on January 4 Weedy sign me up for a copy as soon as it's published.
Clemens has been asked to testify before Congress under oath. McNamee, the former Mets trainer and several other people have been asked to testify. This development is interesting, but not unexpected, IMO. I, for one, will be watching what happens.
Clemens is no better than Tejada,Bonds,or anyone else mentioned in the Mitchell Report.Clemens did seem to get bigger and better with age as did Bonds,among others.I personally think that Clemens did use steroids or HGH.We'll just have to wait and see what happens when they are all asked to testify before Congress.But thats not saying they are all going to tell the truth either.Both Pettite and Clemens were teammates at the time since McNamee has mentioned both there names.
It's interesting that Congress wants Clemens to testify. So far, the only evidence against Clemens is a statement from a felon. That's fine, and I can (in some bizarre way) understand why they'd want him in front of Congress to talk about it. So how come Shawn Merriman hasn't been called to testify in front of Congress? He tested positive for steroids in the NFL. Wouldn't he be a better person to have in front of Congress to talk about steroids and their use in professional sports?
So far, the only evidence against Clemens is a statement from a felon. And that's clemens' defense, isn't it? What did Clemens' lawyer call him? A troubled man? Of course, Clemens had been nothing short of glowing in his praise of this felon in the past. And Clemens took the felon with him when he went to new york. And the felon was correct about Pettitte (and the report was correct about a lot of players), the rockets workout partner and close friend. And it appears, after previously stating differently, that Clemens (always a beacon of truth) is admitting to the trainers exact story right up to what's being injected (hello bonds). I realize from the bonds situation that a percentage of fans will believe against all evidence that a player is clean (he really didn't know it was steroids), and yes, the guys a felon. And maybe tomorrow he'll recant everything, but to be so dismissive about a player that Clemens has chosen to be in his inside circle for years isn't a fair assessment of the situation. So how come Shawn Merriman hasn't been called to testify in front of Congress? He tested positive for steroids in the NFL. Wouldn't he be a better person to have in front of Congress to talk about steroids and their use in professional sports? They're calling clemens because he's denying the report. Or as they're calling it: "a different perspective". One source said "he brought it on himself". Another quote: "Mr. Clemens has raised concerns about the accuracy of the Mitchell report," Phil Schiliro, the chief of staff to Committee Chairman Henry Waxman, a Democrat from California, told 1050 ESPN New York. I'm not saying I believe them, but if you read their reasoning its obvious why they want clemens and not some football player. It's about the mitchell report and clemens' denials.
Gary Huckabay of Baseball Prospectus chimes in with his perspective on the latest round of Congressional steroid hearings. Amen from this corner.
By Tim Brown, Yahoo! Sports January 6, 2008 "I'm angry that what I've done for the game of baseball I don't get the benefit of the doubt," he said. My question is what exactly do we owe him? Sports fans paid for their tickets and Mr. Clemens was well compensated for his efforts. And, exactly what has he done for the game of baseball, except his job and recieved many awards for his accomplishments. Seven Cy Young Awards, seems to be a lot of recognition for any professional pitcher and sports fan alike.
My question is what exactly do we owe him? I agree that we, as fans, don't "owe" him anything. That being said, however, regardless of the substances and how this whole thing plays out, I've always viewed Clemens as a tremendous player, competitor, and hard-worker. Every story I have ever read about him speaks of how rigorous and intense his workouts have always been, and I just don't think anything he potentially did with PEDs takes away from his legacy. He has never seemingly looked for a shortcut to success, and I hope even people who fully believe Clemens used steroids don't believe he could get a shot then automatically be a dominating player. Far from it.
dyams- I see a post about pending suit against McNamee on behalf of Clemens. Appears star pitcher beat trainer to the punch. This gives me pause, and probably confirms Clemens will testify before Congress. He seem bound and determinded to clear his name. If he's willing to sue, and testify in court. I see no reason he won't testify before Congress. Back to my orginal comment on what is owed Clemens. I agree he's one of best pitchers in major league history and should be accorded the awards he recieved over the years. If Clemens says he didn't use steriods, I believe him. I have no reason to doubt his word, and the interview with Mike Wallace didn't change my opinion one way or the other. But, I don't owe him blanket acceptance for his deniels based on his baseball expertise and what he gave to the game (which I would like spelled out to me). I believe him like anybody else that denies allegations of illegal activities.
How about what baseball's done for you, Rajah? What a pretentious asshole.
How about what baseball's done for you, Rajah? What a pretentious asshole. posted by The_Black_Hand at 11:34 AM CST on January 7 Baseball has done a lot for me and I've testified to that in previous posts. Baseball, not some holier than thou pitcher that requires me to give him a free pass because of he achievements. I believe him because he says so, not because you or mighty Roger Clemens say I owe it him. And, I won't dignify the personal remark with a retort. Let other's see the remark and decide if is justified.
I don't think that was directed at you, Nakeman. (something tipped me off, I dunno, maybe it's a certain phonetic similarity between "Rajah" and "Roger" pronounced with a certain regional accent...)
I don't think that was directed at you, Nakeman. My apology to The_Black_Hand and thanks to llb.
I just don't think anything he potentially did with PEDs takes away from his legacy. Sure it does. We can all have our opinions, but if this all ends with most people believing he took PEDs it takes away from his legacy no doubt. I just don't think anything he potentially did with PEDs takes away from his legacy. He has never seemingly looked for a shortcut to success That makes no sense. If he did use PEDs, if what is in the report, including clemens saying they worked, did happen, that's a short cut. How can you say that's not looking for a shortcut? Did I read that wrong? As far as his legendary workouts, steroids would help him recover faster, for more workouts. That's a shortcut .
How can you say that's not looking for a shortcut? All I mean is the guy still has to put in the serious work, and I believe he was more dedicated and probably worked harder than a vast majority of baseball players. I just get the impression some people believe just by injecting steroids these guys suddenly become better baseball players, when that's ridiculous. Clemens got where he was in the game by hard work (and talent) and yes, maybe he did use these substances to recover more quickly from workouts. I'm not really ready to relegate him to the "cheating bastard" category for that.
All I mean is the guy still has to put in the serious work, and I believe he was more dedicated and probably worked harder than a vast majority of baseball players. Well, I agree with that. The idea that someone can inject something into their body and become a great player is hopefully a belief held only by the ignorant. Which, if he did do it, makes it all the worse. He was a hall of fame pitcher regardless.
He was a hall of fame pitcher for sure! He was one of the great! but the fact is, that he just was... Now he doesn't deserve it.
