We'll just have to agree to disagree. This isn't a good forum for the kind of discussion required to thoroughly explain how this isn't a matter of opinion. I'm going to have to ask you to think of a really compelling argument on your own on my behalf, then change your mind. You can start with, "Who builds the House That Ruth Built if it isn't Ruth?" As far as the media using it, well, every team comes with baggage. Noted. I accept that. It's not the worst thing that ever happened to me as a Yankees fan, and it's far from the worst thing we could be called. Maybe what hits me hardest about it is that the people I surround myself with as friends are Sox fans, Mets fans, Cardinals fans, Tigers fans, etc. and when the term "Evil Empire" gets thrown out it separates me from everyone else and it demeans not just my team, but my fandom. It extends beyond "my team can beat your team" into a moral and ethical judgement on my value as a fan in "choosing" (as though there was really, for me, any choice to be made) to align myself with "evil." Mets suck, Red Sox suck, Cardinals suck, Yankees and everything Yankee is evil. I don't know. Maybe I just need to lighten up and work on snappier comebacks. I'm not afraid to acknowledge the hightened sensitivity that a 21-24 record can bring. As you suggest but then push past, it says more about the speaker than the subject... Yeah, but the damn thing got legs and now it's practically an industry term. and you wouldn't be so blind to that if you hadn't grown up in a fascist cult. I flatly refuse to give any indication of the degree of humor I found in this comment. Poker face, poker face. Solemn. There. So Yankees sucks. That's so much better. Go 'Spos!
Certainly Yankee fans are more interested in the Red Sox than other teams, but reverse the standings and I don't think WFAN would be lit up with calls about the Red Sox. That's a flawed example. If the yankees were in first they would be confident they were going to stay there. They'd have no fear of a collapse. They believe they belong there. Sox fans don't. Even now most yankee fans (along with sox fans) believe the sox will choke, often pointing to 78, the last two years, all of history. However, I read plenty of comments last year from yankee fans thrilled the sox fell to third place behind toronto in the last few days of the season. So while not on the same level, it's closer than it ever has been.
Holy thread derail Batman! Or should that be..... Holy thread derail Darth! Indeed, Go 'Spos!
So what's basically being said is that saying or writing 'Evil Empire' is out but 'Yankees suck' is ok? Is that correct?
BornIcon, stay with the program. 'Yankees (or substitute appropriate team) suck' is out. 'Yankees (or substitute appropriate team) are sharp air intakers' is ok. At least, that's the way I read it.
Holy thread derail Batman! As I step back and look at it now, the premise of the thread, from the question posed, was "how do the Yankees' charitable efforts influence public perception of the team." While the part about them being charitable has kind of been left aside, this discussion revolves quite directly around public perception of the team, so I don't feel it is as much of a derail as I did previously. Yes, I waffle. But to pull it back on topic, I go to a lot of games at Yankee Stadium, and more often than not there is some pre-game ceremony where Jeter or Posada or somebody comes bounding out of the dugout to present an oversized check to somebody. I'm sure every time this is done there is an associated press release. The degree to which that release gets picked up and pumped up by the media, I would guess, is in direct proportion to the notoriety of the recipient. This gesture is getting a lot of exposure not because of who signs the front of the check, but who signs the back. Suggesting this is strictly a PR agenda is silly -- if all they wanted was exposure, they could have written a check for a tenth of what they did and still have gotten plenty of press. Tack on the fact that they're offering to scrimmage the VT baseball team -- they're getting involved in the community and giving what they can. They might actually be well-intentioned here. Sorry. When we of the Yankee Empire can get back to harming babies and puppies and kitties and trees and bunny rabbits and the ozone and depleting everyone of antioxidants and Omega 3 fatty acids, we'll let you know.
That's a flawed example. Actually, what I wrote is confusing. I'll try again. The example you gave has as much to do with the history of the two teams as sox hatred. And while I agree that sox obsession with the yankees is greater than the other way around (yankee fans chant sox sucks, but sox fans chant yankees suck at games against other teams), it's much closer than it was even 10 years ago. Let the sox win another world series (crosses fingers) and watch it become even closer. and when the term "Evil Empire" gets thrown out it separates me from everyone else and it demeans not just my team, but my fandom. I would never have though that, but i appreciate your honesty. For what it's worth you couldn't pay me to chant 'yankees sucks'. I hate it almost as much as the wave.
Hating on the wave? What kind of baseball fan are you? There's nothing more glorious than successfully starting a wave in a 50 000 seat stadium filled (!) by 4000 people. Maybe my MLB experience is skewed by the 'Spos factor...
Actually, what I wrote is confusing. I'll try again. I was with you the first time and I recognized the flaw when I wrote it, but it's not a flaw exactly: there are no other comparisons. There are no other teams with such a history of getting ohsoclose and failing at the end. And of those 0 other teams, none of them exist in such a fatalist community as the mix of Puritans and Catholics in New England. I just find the level of obsession with the Yankees after 2004 over the top and the whole thing feels a bit bandwagon/ a bit media-stoked. It feels small to not pity such a lesser team. They've gone almost a whole decade without a Series title. I can't imagine that.
I don't know. Maybe I just need to lighten up and work on snappier comebacks. Yes and no. Your comebacks are snap-tacular. But the whole Evil Empire thing is entirely misconstrued. It's a Star Wars reference, and as far as I can tell (and what the more recent films taught me) the worst thing about it is being lumped in with that huge pansy Darth Vader. "Is Padme allright? Nooooooooooo!!!!!"
Jeter or Posada or somebody comes bounding out of the dugout to present an oversized check to somebody. And that's why I hate the Yankees. All that bounding around just pisses me off. For what it's worth you couldn't pay me to chant 'yankees sucks'. Yeah, that's bush league. Why chant it when you can just buy the shirt?
Yeah, that's bush league. Why chant it when you can just buy the shirt? Ok, now I'm offended. Is that Britney Spears?
It's a Star Wars reference, and as far as I can tell No it isn't.
Yeah, leave Star Wars outta this.
It's a Star Wars reference, and as far as I can tell No it isn't. Yes, I am aware that this was a popular term for the Soviets, But contextually referring to the Yankees as the Evil Empire because it compares them with the Soviet Union makes way less sense then the Empire of Star Wars fame (related to the Nazis - but I think safely a few degrees away from a direct referral). I'm sure the communists wouldn't have that sized payroll. I would also counter that while both have been referred to as Evil Empires it does not mean that they are being equated (one doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the other). Honestly, are Yankee fans really this thin-skinned about it? I can't believe it. I thought New York, was you know, tougher than that. Aren't you supposed to scoff at we little people in our tiny cities? What with our wee little pants and hats and the like?
No it isn't. Weird. Better tell Sox fans.
yerfatma, there's no real point. If they want to believe the phrase comes from Star Wars, I'm sure not going to be able to persuade them otherwise. Hell, Lucchino probably thinks that's where it comes from.
I like to think of the Red Sox as N'Sync Justin Timberlake is way fucking cooler than Nick Carter.
Justin Timberlake AND Nick Carter can both intake each other's air sharply, as far as I'm concerned. Darth Vader could whup them all. Now leave me alone whilst I put the tape back on the bridge of my wee little glasses.
,,,more often than not there is some pre-game ceremony where Jeter or Posada or somebody comes bounding out of the dugout to present an oversized check to somebody Crafty, in my first comment, many many moons ago, I said that I applauded the gesture by the Yankees. The attendant publicity made it seem rather like the Pharisees being far too public with their charity. If the Yankees are frequently supporting one cause or another throughout the season, and it is only because the media have picked up on one such event, then I withdraw my opinion. The whole Yankees vs Red Sox thing is more than likely a product of a vast inferiority complex shared by New England fans of all sports. As Yerfatma put it, the Calvinist and Roman Catholic influence on us is also strong. Thus, when we refer to sharp intakes of breath by New York sports teams wearing pinstripes, we are actually expressing a psychological need to overcome our perceived inferiority and at the same time trying to deny any presumption that Deity might look favorably upon our team. Perhaps in this the age of the internet, some Red Sox team official could open a web site dedicated to providing psychological counseling to those fans who are obsessed with the "Yankees inhale sharply" chant. A full line of products from self-help DVDs to various nutritional food items would be offered at greatly inflated prices. Questions and answers, along with helpful advice, would be provided by guests such as Jerry Remy, Jim Rice, Dennis Eckersley, and (if we are really lucky) Hazel May. This has real potential. Jump on it quickly, Red Sox Nation.
Weird. Better tell Sox fans. yeah, they're not the only ones. and honestly, i don't give a crap anymore. it used to upset me mostly because, like Crafty said, it came from the weaselly Lucchino. and i never associated it with anything but Star Wars. maybe it's just a strange juxtaposition for me because for years at the Stadium they've been playing the Imperial March while reading the visiting lineup and the Rebel Theme for the Yankees. but, somewhere along the line i guess i stopped caring about being called the bad guys. and i've learned to accept the fact that pretty much everyone hates all of the teams i root for in every sport. the less i care about what other fans think of my team the more i'm able to enjoy the game.
Don't sweat it. We try to pretend weaselly Lucchino isn't part of the organization. The quieter he is, the easier it is to do so. The season has been relatively drama-free with media rumors and I can't help but associate that with Lucchino being quiet. but, somewhere along the line i guess i stopped caring about being called the bad guys. and i've learned to accept the fact that pretty much everyone hates all of the teams i root for in every sport. the less i care about what other fans think of my team the more i'm able to enjoy the game. That's how I feel. No one who isn't a fan actually likes the Red Sox anymore than they like the Yankees. They're on equal ground to anyone not a NYY or BOS fan.
If they want to believe the phrase comes from Star Wars, I'm sure not going to be able to persuade them otherwise. Hell, Lucchino probably thinks that's where it comes from. Thanks for making my point: that's what he was referencing and that's what pretty much everyone but you took it to mean, so grousing about it being offensive is even sillier than it would normally be for Yankee fans to be complaining about being picked on.
grousing about it being offensive Where exactly did I do that? You silly person.
grousing about it being offensive I'm pretty sure he meant me. My silliness is done -- I just had that aneurism I've been waiting for.
Where exactly did I do that? You silly person. Consider for a moment that not every response is about you.
Consider for a moment that not every response is about you. Consider that when you quote someone in your comment, it's not unreasonable for them to think that what you're saying is, in fact, about them. And that even though you've had differences with someone in the past, it's not absolutely necessary for every single response to that person to be an attempted put-down.
but, somewhere along the line i guess i stopped caring about being called the bad guys. and i've learned to accept the fact that pretty much everyone hates all of the teams i root for in every sport posted by goddam I don't know what it's like to be a yankee fan, but I'm a dallas cowboy fan. Have been since I was 5. It's not quite the same, but in many ways the cowboys are the yankees of the NFL. During successful stretches of their history people have absolutely hated the cowboys. They root for their team and against Dallas. It's never bothered me. In fact, I enjoy it. I don't think those that go overboard in hating another team ever look good. When people hate a team you know that team's been successful. Sure, there are always other circumstances, but without the winning coming first the circumstances wouldn't matter. No one who isn't a fan actually likes the Red Sox anymore than they like the Yankees. They're on equal ground to anyone not a NYY or BOS fan. Maybe in the Boston area, but that's not really true elsewhere. There is a hatred for New York that doesn't touch Boston. I've had more people come up to me and (wearing a Boston cap) talk about the season and end with "as long as the yankees don't win" than I can remember. Before the 04 series I'd have cub fans tell me they were rooting for their team and the sox. If Boston can win another championship or three I'm sure that attitude will change, but there's definitely more hate for the Yankees than the Sox, especially among the casual fan who knows New York has the largest payroll but has no idea Boston is number two. They still see Boston as a huge underdog, and everyone loves an underdog. Of course, the flip side of that is the Yankees have more fans who wear their symbol just because it's the Yankees and have no idea who even plays for the team. Almost every sports store I visit in different parts of the country has the local team's gear and the Yankees. Again, I don't think you can have the good without the bad, yin without the yang.
Of course, the flip side of that is the Yankees have more fans who wear their symbol just because it's the Yankees and have no idea who even plays for the team. For the record, that's more offensive than any barb thrown at the Yankees.
For the record, that's more offensive than any barb thrown at the Yankees. Agreed. Every time I see K-fed in his Yankee cap I giggle. But it does point to the success of the organization.
For the record, that's more offensive than any barb thrown at the Yankees. Agreed. Every time I see K-fed in his Yankee cap I giggle. But it does point to the success of the organization. Yeah, I'm the same way when I see Tom Brady in his Yankee cap.
I'm the same way when I see Tom Brady in his Yankee cap. Why? Tom Brady was born in california and I'm guessing a yankees fan. Why should he wear a sox cap simply because he plays for the patriots? If I had the talent to play football and ended up with the giants should I suddenly wear a yankees cap? I point to k-fed (I'm assuming he knows nothing about baseball, if I'm wrong, sorry k-fed!) because it's an example of how ingrained the yankee brand is in popular culture.
If I had the talent to play football and ended up with the giants should I suddenly wear a yankees cap? I think you should wear a Yankees cap anyway. Frontrunner.
I think you should wear a Yankees cap anyway. Only if you buy me this one.
I will buy you that if you promise to take a picture of yourself wearing it and post it on the sidebar on the front page.
And you have to make it your AIM avatar. Forever.
I might have considered it until jerseygirl's added stipulations (plus, I'd be helping feed one of the K kids).
You're taking food out of Kooly Clemens' mouth, Gary.
You know, if he named one of his kids Koolio I might have to rethink my opinion on the man.
Bedazzling!
Disco Raga!!
That cap makes me wonder why all caps don't have rhinestone flairs.
In Debbie's world, they do. You should see what she can do with a jacket.
