FanDuel - WFBC

March 14, 2006

Vikings deal Culpepper to Dolphins : Vikings and Dolphins have agreed on a trade, with Miami sending a second-round pick to the Vikings in exchange for the Pro Bowl quarterback.

posted by wingnut4life to football at 12:20 PM - 75 comments

Well, looks like Brees is going to be a Saint. My dumbass Lions signed Shaun King to a one year contract, and Kitna to a four year!!! What the f#ck are they thinking? "Hey, let's just corner the market on all the shitty QB's?"

posted by wingnut4life at 12:28 PM on March 14

This could change the draft pretty significantly if the Saints end up with Brees. I wonder if they will move down or just take a different player instead at the 2 spot. Maybe the Titans will try to move up to get Leinart.

posted by bperk at 12:29 PM on March 14

The Saints could use a lot of help on defense. It will be interesting to see if they trade down for more picks, or go after Mario Williams at the 2 spot. That is, if they get Brees. I could see Leinart at Tennessee, especially since they have McNair for one more year. Give the rook some time to get acclimated.

posted by sublime4390116 at 12:36 PM on March 14

Well let's not forget about Oakland. Do you think that they'll make a run for Brees now? As for the New Orleans visit, here's a quote from the Great Blue North Draft Report: When asked the question at a post-visit news conference, new Saints' head coach Sean Payton said that signing Brees would give the Saints "flexibility" on draft day, but he wouldn't rule out drafting a QB at the #2 pick. Meanwhile, all Brees would say is that when asked if he talked to the Saints about their draft plans is that he was "not sure" what the Saints will do with the second pick", however, he did add that he "assumed they would not take a QB because once he signed he would be there "a long time."

posted by wingnut4life at 12:39 PM on March 14

I say Breese to New Orleans. New Orleans drafts Mario Williams (or a new FIMA director) and Lion Heart to Tennessee to reunite with Norm Chow.

posted by kingosiris at 12:45 PM on March 14

I was really hoping for Brees in Miami, not Pepa. Now that he's on the way, though, I hope he can establish a chemistry with Chambers, not be an asshole, stay away from South Beach, and for God's sake, don't go near any type of boat!

posted by The_Black_Hand at 12:52 PM on March 14

Where's he going to find a boat in Miami?

posted by yerfatma at 12:54 PM on March 14

Well, the Saints don't want to be transparent less other teams try to low-ball them for their pick. But, realistically, carrying two high-priced QBs on your roster would be crazy, especially considering how many other needs they have. Plus, they could move down in the draft only a couple slots and still get a great pick in Ferguson, Williams, or Hawk. Has Oakland been in the mix for Brees? I thought it was a two-horse race by now. Culpepper has to be pretty happy to be back in Florida. What a coup for him! No state income tax is almost the same as getting more money.

posted by bperk at 12:54 PM on March 14

Over/Under on Duante Culpepper organizing a "team fishing trip" ? Over/Under before someone made a comment like that? I'm surprised it lasted that long

posted by timdawg at 12:55 PM on March 14

Is the second-round pick more of a sign of the Vikings' distaste for Culpepper, or the effect of his antics on his market value?

posted by kirkaracha at 12:56 PM on March 14

Black Hand at 6th post. guess i lost

posted by timdawg at 12:58 PM on March 14

I guess Oakland wasn't willing to give up their second round pick, that's why Daunte went to PhinLand.

posted by wingnut4life at 01:03 PM on March 14

This is something I have a hard time understanding about the NFL. I know that there are no guaranteed contracts, so signing an Offensive lineman to a six-year $57 million deal isn't really risking all that money, but how come 2nd round picks are as valuable as a damn Pro-Bowl Quarterback? Why would Oakland not part with one? I mean, there are, what, maybe a dozen, or 14 genuinely good quarterbacks on the planet - but one of the other (and this is suggesting that Culpepper isn't at their level, though he likely was) 14 isn't even worth MORE than a second round pick? This - and the fact that Edgerrin James can sign a deal that is about the same as a guy I've never heard of somewhere else - are the reasons why I cannot pretend to understand football at all.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:11 PM on March 14

Culpepper's contract is significant and there aren't many teams that can absorb a contract like that. Couple that with his serious injury and shaky beginning last year and you have a second round draft pick.

posted by bperk at 01:28 PM on March 14

There were trade rumors last year with Shaun Alexander and all they were mentioning was a 2nd round pick as well.

posted by tron7 at 01:33 PM on March 14

I think the salary cap is the reason why draft picks are so important. Rookies are generally cheaper than veterans.

posted by bperk at 01:34 PM on March 14

Brees will sign with 'Aints. N.O. will trade down with Jets who take Leinart at #2, then Saints get Williams at #4 after Titans take Vince Young at #3. You can put it on the board........

posted by wdminott at 01:36 PM on March 14

So essentially, NFL franchises sign their marquee talent to contracts that only afford them 2nd round picks in trades if the guy demands a trade? Every franchise has a contract like Culpepper's. And because it's not guaranteed who cares how big the contract is? Is this just salary cap issues? I think the salary cap is the reason why draft picks are so important. Rookies are generally cheaper than veterans. Yes - because they're unproven and unexperienced. These aren't trades - they're giveaways. If Minnesota could afford Daunte, they could certainly afford getting at least a number two receiver or a good special teams player or even another giant contract. Is it no one is willing to get Daunte except the Fish? Half the league is looking for a QB! Meanwhile, two years ago Clinton Portis gets traded for Champ Bailey. As far as I can remember this was the last trade the NFL has had that is even remotely similar to the other leagues. And I even then thought that it was a wierd deal. At least in the MLB, NBA and NHL you can be assured of getting decent prospects in return. Maybe 2nd round picks in the NFL are like 1st round picks in other leagues. But I doubt it. I'm still flummoxed.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:37 PM on March 14

And even if Daunte is damaged goods and that would explain the lowball offer from Miami, it sure as hell doens't explain why Oakland wouldn't trade the same thing, or why Shaun Alexander (anything but damaged goods) would be traded for a 2nd round pick (as the rumours insinuated). I'm sorry for continuing to harp - I'm just really interested in understanding this.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:47 PM on March 14

Does a portion of the salary traded count against the trading teams cap? That would explain the infrequency of big contracts traded. -This is totally from Madden(the video game) so it could be way off.

posted by tron7 at 01:51 PM on March 14

I just read that Brees signed with the Saints. I am relatively new, so I don't know how to link the article. But it's out there. 6 years, no financial disclosure.

posted by sublime4390116 at 01:56 PM on March 14

The Shaun Alexander and Culpepper situation are very different. Shaun Alexander got low-balled because teams feel like they can get a cheaper rookie running back to come and perform right away (see Cadillac Williams) and Alexander is old by RB standards. Culpepper got low-balled for the reason I mentioned above. Trades are infrequent for salary cap reasons (as tron pointed out). The team takes a salary cap hit of the pro-rated signing bonus.

posted by bperk at 02:07 PM on March 14

Brees: 6 years, 60 million? They're not drafting a quarterback. Methinks Sean Payton just got the guy he wants.

posted by YukonGold at 02:10 PM on March 14

I'm a huge Dolphins fan, and I'm excited about them getting Culpepper! When it was down to Brees and Culpepper, I was actually leaning toward Brees. But the more I thought about it, the more Culpepper seemed like the better choice - he wants to be in Miami, he will probably have better chemistry with Chambers and McMichael (than Brees would've), and torn ligaments in the knee is MUCH easier and has a better chance of recovery than a torn rotator cuff. But Culpepper does have small hands and a tendency to fumble. I just hope he quits doing that stupid arm roll when he throws a touchdown, I hate that! But I'm glad to have him!

posted by BigTallChris at 02:14 PM on March 14

I just read that Brees signed with the Saints. Moments after the Dolphins got Daunte Culpepper in a trade with the Vikings, free agent quarterback Drew Brees agreed to a six-year deal with the New Orleans Saints.

posted by wingnut4life at 02:36 PM on March 14

New Orleans wins this matchup. While both Brees and Culpepper were 1st round picks, both were injured last season and both earn approx. $10 million a year that is where the likeness ends. Brees is 2 years younger, a true good citizen and has better overall stats. Brees also handled the adversity he faced in San Diego, with Rivers and Flute and The Manning Derby and he came out and had one of his best years ever in 2005. As a Cowboy Fan I would have loved to have Drew Brees but I would not have wanted Culpepper. I rather stick with "The Statue" Drew Bledsoe. Good Job, New Orleans!

posted by Termite at 02:39 PM on March 14

Maybe they did, but the Saints gave up a lot of guaranteed money to get Brees. If he doesn't heal completely from his injury, then they are out a lot more cash than Miami. And, you can't possibly be serious about preferring Bledsoe to Culpepper.

posted by bperk at 03:07 PM on March 14

Personally, I think that both New Orleans and Miami are taking a risk. Don't forget about Dante's knee. Wasn't that a movie once? Anyway, the 'phins cut Biran Griese a couple of days ago, but said that they'll probably re-sign him. Do you think the Culpepper move will change the teams and/or Griese's view on this?

posted by wingnut4life at 03:12 PM on March 14

Brian Griese was cut by the Buccaneers and they are hoping to get him back. The Dolphins have Gus Frerotte.

posted by bperk at 03:28 PM on March 14

bperk, I have to admit that I've never liked Culpepper. He seems to lose control of situations and play poorly under stress. 86 career interceptions and 78 fumbles. Bledsoe is what Coach Parcells calls a "Game Manager" meaning that he controls the situation to the best of his teams ability and dosen't get frazzled. I just do not think that Culpepper would have been a proper fit in Big D. My personal opinion.

posted by Termite at 03:44 PM on March 14

Bledsoe had 17 fumbles last year, and lost 8 of them. Culpepper only had one year that bad (2002, lost 9). By any measure that you would want to compare (except for Culpepper's extraordinarily terrible start to last year), Culpepper is far better than Bledsoe. I don't know if he would be a "good fit", but a great QB is better than an old, mediocre one.

posted by bperk at 04:19 PM on March 14

Does anyone have a clue to what the Raiders will do as far as obtaining a QB. I have no idea! But as in the past, what ever decision Davis makes, it will be controversial. Raiders fans will either love it or hate it.

posted by livedawhile at 04:22 PM on March 14

I think the Raiders should try to get McCown. He probably just looks bad because he played for AZ.

posted by bperk at 04:31 PM on March 14

Nobody is taking into consideration the fact that the Saints could stay pat and draft Drew Brees a "wall" at left tackle who will stay there for the next 10 seasons. The Saints have Deuce McCallister coming back next year and three solid receivers waiting in the wings. Give the Saints Fergueson and you've got a pretty solid foundation starting up. Lineart, Young, Williams go 3-5 this year...in that order...

posted by chemwizBsquared at 05:08 PM on March 14

bperk, thanks for the correction. I was looking at the friggin' Bucs website when I typed that whole thing up! I'm officially a dumbass, apologies guys. As for the Raiders, I think that they might take a look at Patrick Ramsey.

posted by wingnut4life at 05:15 PM on March 14

two big idots.. brees and the phins. 1.) brees is going to get slaughtered when he lines up for the saints. he might as consider his career shortened by three to four years. hell have no o-line to protect him, and defenses are getting to fast for him to scramble constently. 2.)phins picked up a shacky at best QB. in my opinion no true talent, with questionable background.didnt they learn anything from the williams fiasco!! now they dont have anybody in the backfield, no running back worth anything or a quality QB to possibly get them down the field. their receivers are going to get tired of running down the field, turning around and never getting the ball.

posted by canes09 at 06:01 PM on March 14

if anything the saints should have paid all that big money for eli manning. at least that way when they have a losing record people will still fill the stands if for no other reason than to pay homage to archie

posted by canes09 at 06:04 PM on March 14

Many thanks for all your help in keeping me up with the Saints. The rumors are out that they are possibly headed for San Antonio, and that would excite me, so keep up the good words. And, wingnut, you ain't really a dumbass. You haven't repeated your mistakes. I sobered up twice and found out I had gotten married both times. You have inspired me to work hard at not repeating my mistakes and I resolve to never sober up again.

posted by Bud Lang at 06:06 PM on March 14

Hey Bud, thanks for the pep talk. Although now I have to burst your bubble. The Saints are staying in New Orleans for two important reasons: 1)The NFL has pledged to help rebuild the Superdome. 2)If they moved it would be a major PR blow. All of America would blow hair and accuse Tom Benson of using Hurricane Katrina as an excuse to cut and run.

posted by wingnut4life at 06:25 PM on March 14

Personally I think Tom Benson should be allowed to move the team where he pleases, after all he is the one that owns it. The Dolphins will definitely improve from this deal, yes Culpepper can be erratic but there are not many quarterbacks that can play at the level he can. Plus, maybe the Lions will be able to beat the Vikings now!

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 06:30 PM on March 14

All of you who are bashing the Dolphins and Culpepper need to read this Culpepper Manifesto from finheaven.com: Culpepper has been the most productive QB in NFL history. When you account for his rushing numbers, his production has been absolutely phenomenal. Over his career, Culpepper has 164 total TDs in 81 games, an average of more than 2 TDs per game. Compare that to the greatest QBs (production-wise) in NFL history: Marino (429 in 242 games, an average of 1.77) Favre (408 in 225 games, an average of 1.81) PManning (253 in 128 games, an average of 1.97) KWarner (121 in 73 games, an average of 1.65) In short, Culpepper is the most prolific TD scoring QB on a per game basis in NFL history.

posted by BigTallChris at 06:33 PM on March 14

Next, look at total yards (rushing and passing). Culpepper has 22,639 total yards in 81 games, an average of 279.5 yards per game. Compare that to the greatest QBs (production-wise) in NFL history: Marino (61448 in 242 games, an average of 254 yards per game) Favre (55360 in 225 games, an average of 246 yards per game) PManning (33854 in 128 games, an average of 264.5 yards per game) KWarner (19474 in 73 games, an average of 266.7 yards per game) So Culpepper is also the most productive QB in terms of yards from scrimmage in NFL history on a per game basis.

posted by BigTallChris at 06:33 PM on March 14

Then compare his INTs to the aforementioned guys. Culpepper has 86 in 81 games, an average of 1.06 per game. Marino (1.04 per game) Favre (1.13 per game) PManning (1.015 per game) KWarner (1.07 per game) So Daunte is the most productive QB (on a per game basis) in NFL history in terms of both yards and TDs. His interception rate is comparable to or better than any of the guys that are even close (and they're not that close). His completion percentage of 64.4 is the second-best in NFL history. And that is not in a dink-and-dunk West Coast offense. It’s not terribly surprising, as he holds the single season NCAA record for completion percentage at 73.4%. That is with a vertical passing game. In 2004 he completed an incredible 17 of 34 passes thrown more than 31 yards from scrimmage in the air. And no, it was not because of jump balls to Moss -- Moss caught only 3 of them. Physically, he has a lot more size and speed than any QB should be allowed to have. He's the size of a DE and runs like a fullback. His rushing numbers are second only to Michael Vick among QBs.

posted by BigTallChris at 06:34 PM on March 14

Below are my responses to the criticisms I hear from the Culpepper haters: The Knee It is legitimate to be concerned about the knee, but this is an area we all need to defer to the doctors on. They are saying he is well ahead of schedule and will play next year. The trade hinges on his passing a physical, so if it goes through, that means the Fins docs say he’s OK. The decision on a QB of the future should not hinge on whether he'll be at full strength at the beginning of this year (this goes for Brees too). I can't think of a single QB whose career was ended or derailed by a kneee injury. I’ve asked in several threads if anyone could think of a single on and nobody came forward with any. In recent years, there has been virtually 100% recovery from knee injuries, including RBs, WRs and CBs who are much more dependent on their speed and cutting ability than a QB (even a mobile one) is. For those positions, the difference between 4.4 speed and 4.6 speed may be difference between star and scrub. Any loss int he ability to plant and cut on a dime fundamentally changes who that player is. Nonetheless, guys like EJames, Jamal Lewis, McGahee, etc. have all come back as good as new. For a QB, even a mobile one, it is much less important. Even if Culpepper goes from a 4.7 40 guy to 4.8 or 4.9, it won't make a huge difference. When RBs are able to come back from hideous knee injuries, it seems like a stretch to say that Culpepper can't or won't. There is a long list of QBs who have played at a HOF level for years with “bad knees” – Marino, Namath, Elway, Stabler, etc.

posted by BigTallChris at 06:35 PM on March 14

The Fumbles Yes, he does fumble a lot. However, even if you treat the fumbles as interceptions, his numbers are still great. A rushing attempt is akin to a completed pass, albeit usually a short one. They usually come on passing downs and are positive yardage plays. If you look at combined rushing and passing numbers and treat each rushing attempt as a pass attempt and a completion, each rushing TD as a passing TD, and each fumble as an interception, Culpepper's adjusted rating comes out to 92.6, which is a little below Payton Manning's adjusted career rating of 94.3, but is above Carson Palmer (90.9). Gus's 2005 adjusted rating is 69.9. Marino’s career adjusted rating is 86.7. People keep citing to the total fumbles numbers, as opposed to fumbles lost, which is really the relevant number. He's lost an average of about 5 fumbles per season, which is about 2-3 more than most other QBs. BTW, Gus fumbled 13 times last year and lost 4, but I have never heard anyone on this board bitching about that particular aspect of his game. Also, part of the reason Culpepper fumbles is that he runs with the ball, i.e., he actually gets tackled while holding the ball 100+ times per year. If the average RB had those carries instead of Culpepper, he'd fumble a few times too (Ronnie Brown had 4 fumbles in 239 touches and Ricky has 35 fumbles in approximately 2000 touches in his career). The Boat Give me a break. He is charged with getting a lap dance and touching the dancer's tushy. Are you such prudes that you find that to be outrageous conduct? Do you think no other NFL players get lap dances? Hell, Clinton Portis had a stripper pole and a bevy of strippers in his house. Do you really think the Fins players would be hesitant to follow his lead because he allegedly touched a stripper's tushy?

posted by BigTallChris at 06:35 PM on March 14

The Moss Culpepper's great numbers are not because of Randy Moss -- any more than Montana/Young were products of Rice. Or any more than Manning is a product of Harrison. Almost every great QB has had some great WRs. In 2004, Mossed missed 3 games and was just a decoy in 2 others. In those 5 games, Culpepper completed 113 of 166 passes (68%) for 1179 yards, 9 TDs and 3 INTs, which comes out to a QB rating of 99. In other games, he was hurt and simply didn’t do much. For that season, if you exclude passes thrown to Moss, he completed 330 of 463 passes (71.3%), for 3950 yards and 26 TDs. Even if you assume that none of his INTs were on passes thrown to Moss, which is doubtful, his QB rating excluding Moss was 105.9. Moreover, Moss clearly didn't make Kerry Collins into the Pro Bowler this year, even though he was opposite other quality WRs. The 2005 INTs Culpepper had a very bad start to 2005. He had 8 picks in the first 2 games, but had 6 TDs and 4 INTs in the 4 games after that. He was playing for a new OC, with a new set of receivers and an OL that had lost its anchor, Pro Bowl center Matt Birk. The OL was really struggling -- he was sacked 31 times in just over 6 games. You can't disregard his career numbers based on 2 bad games at the start of the season. Even the best QBs will occasionally have a 3-4 INT game.

posted by BigTallChris at 06:35 PM on March 14

The Playoffs True, Minnesota has not been a great team since he's been there, but they have consistently had one of the 5-6 worst defenses in the NFL. From 2000-04, the Vikes never had a defense that was better than 25th in the NFL. Even Marino had better defenses in the late 80s and early 90s. With a few exceptions, Minny had unremarkable running games during that time (especially if you exclude Culpepper's rushing numbers). Still, the Vikes were 39-41 during that time period, which is comparable to Marino's record from 1986-89 when the Fins defenses were bad (30-33). We all know that even a great QB cannot win with a bad defense. When he’s been in the playoffs, he’s 2-2. His career playoff numbers are pretty respectable -- 73/134, 980 yds, 8 TDs and 5 INTs (82.3 rating). He had one terrible game against the Giants in 2001, a mediocre one against the Eagles in 2004, and two very good ones against the Saints in '01 and the Packers in '04 (total of 36/60, 618 yds, 7 TDs, 0 INTs). The Money Daunte is due to make $2 million this year, less than half of what Gus is due to be paid. Brees will undoubtedly cost several times that amount. The 3 years after this one, Culpepper is due to make around $6 million per year, which isn't much for an upper echelon QB. Brees would have cost more. Some are offended that he reportedly asked for more money, but it isn't clear that he did. His agent did, and then got fired for it. The Vikes owner had publicly said that he would re-evaluate Daunte's contract after this past season, so it wouldn't have been unusual for Daunte to expect him to do that.

posted by BigTallChris at 06:36 PM on March 14

The Backups Some people argue that the fact that his backups have had success in Minny means he is a product of the system. When they make this argument, they usually selectively ignore the numbers of his backups who did not play well. Even so, the reality is that a lot of QBs will do well in a good offensive system, with a decent OL and some talent around him. The Viking backups success is hardly unique. Take a look at the QB ratings of the following backups, with the starter in parentheses: Steve Young (Montana) 108.9 Steve Bono (Montana) 88.5 Jeff Kemp (Montana) 85.7 Scott Mitchell (Marino) 91.4 Craig Erickson (Marino) 86.3 Elvis Grbac (Young) 87.9 Jeff Garcia (Young) 89.9 Frank Reich (Kelly) 102.3 Jim Sorgi (Manning) 99.1 Matt Cassel (Brady) 89.4 Marc Bulger (Warner) 101.5 Trent Green (Warner) 101.8 Bernie Kosar (Aikman) 92.7 Rodney Peete (Aikman) 102.5 Jason Garrett (Aikman) 83.3 Billy Volek (McNair) 87.4 In addition to those, you have guys like Brooks, Brunell and Hasselbeck who looked good as backups to Favre and drew a lot in trades/FA. Same for Feeley behind McNabb. None of this means that Culpepper (or any of the QBs listed in parentheses above) are not great QBs. They are. Culpepper has put up incredible numbers and is a proven commodity. The Vikes improvement in the 2nd half of the season last year was not because Brad Johnson was better. It was because the OL, which was recovering from the loss of Matt Birk and a rookie at G, started to gel as the season went on. The OL gave up 29 sacks in the first 6 games. They gave up only 23 in the next 10 games. The other reason was that the defense improved dramatically in the second half of the season. In the first 7 games, the defense gave up 193 points, which is approximately 28 per game. In the next 9, they gave up 151 points, which comes out to an average of less than 17 per game. Gee, do you think a difference of 11 ppg allowed might make a difference in wins and losses?

posted by BigTallChris at 06:36 PM on March 14

Intelligence First, and not that it is necessarily a true measure of intelligence, but Culpepper scored a 21 on the Wonderlic. This is better than Marino (14), McNabb (16), McNair (15), and a point less than Brett Favre (22). Obviously, the Wonderlic is not a foolproof indicator of the ability to understand NFL defenses. What are good indicators of the ability to make decisions and read defenses is performance on 3rd downs, when blitzed, and in the red zone. On 3rd downs, NFL teams basically know you are passing and the defenses are at their most creative to stop the pass. Performance on blitzes shows the QBs ability to make decisions under pressure and find the open man in a very short time. Performance in the red zone shows what he can do with a short field in critical situations. In 2004, Culpepper's performance on 3rd down and blitzes was phenomenal. On 3rd downs, he completed 93 of 134 (69.4%), for 1391 yards, 19 TDs and 3 INTs, which comes out to an absurd QB rating of 133.7. That year, on blitzes, he completed 101 of 159 (63.5%), for 1217, 15 TDs and 1 INT, which is a 115.7 rating. In the red zone, he completed 54 of 88 for 352 yards, 26 TDs and 2 INTs, for a rating of 158.2 (the maximum). These types of numbers simply are not possible if you can't read defenses and make good decisions. Do people think that every defense he faced was pure vanilla? Yes, last year he struggled, especially in those first 2 games. But his 2003 numbers in these categories are comparable to his 2004 numbers. 3rd down -- 79/121, 1054, 12, 3 (Rating: 115.5) Blitz -- 60/103, 785, 9, 4 (Rating: 95.3) Red Zone -- 23/51, 147, 14, 2 (Rating: 126.8) For comparison sake, Gus's numbers in these categories last year are: 3rd down -- 63/152, 813, 5, 5 (Rating: 56.2) Blitz -- 73/162, 866, 5, 4 (Rating: 61.9) Red Zone -- 28/65, 189, 12, 3 (Rating: 70.8) Remember, these are in essentially the same Linehan offense (which we say we are keeping).

posted by BigTallChris at 06:37 PM on March 14

“Game Management” A lot of people talk about certain QBs being good game managers. I hear that a lot about Brees and some Gusketeers also like to claim that he was a good game manager. I think that, in most cases, that is just someone's way of pumping up a guy they like on the basis of some intangible that cannot be verified or disproven. Let's face it, with the exception of occasional audibles, the coaches call the plays. Most of what people refer to as game management is really a reflection of the plays called by the coaches, not anything the QB has done. That said, I think there is some QB "game management" in the way the guy plays on 3rd and 4th down. "Managing the game" basically boils down to how well the QB keeps the chains moving, which basically boils down to converting 3rd and 4th downs. Avoiding turnovers is another aspect of game management. I was only able to find stats for this for the past 2 seasons. Culpepper’s conversion rate on 3rd and 4th downs has been excellent. Over the last 2 years, he has converted 98/196 (50%). This is the same as Payton Manning (119 of 238), but better than Brees (121/264 – 45.8%) and Brady (122/270 – 45.1%). Gus supporters claim he was a good game manager last year, but he converted only 50/160 third and 4th downs last year, which comes out to 31.25%. These numbers do not include plays in which the QB ran for a 1st down on 3rd or 4th down. The Draft Pick Giving up a 2nd rounder is a small price to pay (it's not clear to me now whether it is 2006 or 2007). Either way, there will be no one in the draft this year or next who is a proven commodity with Culpepper’s talent level. Certainly no one in the 2nd round. The price for high draft pick QBs is around $50 million over 6 years, with more than $20 million of that guaranteed. Culpepper’s contract is much more cap friendly. Clearly, the Fins decided that Brees’ price tag was simply too high. Now stop crying about getting a 29-year old, physically dominant QB who has put up numbers over his 7 year career that compare favorably to the best who have ever played the position. Credit and thanks to Fineas at finheaven.com for all of this great information!!!

posted by BigTallChris at 06:38 PM on March 14

BigTallChris, I'm not saying that I'm a psychic, but, um, are you a Dolphins fan? Thanks for spewing the Culpepper Propaganda, though. It was good reading. But about the knee, he can pass the physical all he wants, but what if he's not as mobile as in the past? If he's not, then look for him to have a shaky first half of the season. Oh, and YYM. You must now go to the naughty corner for taking a shot at my beloved Lions. Honestly, I think that this might be the year...

posted by wingnut4life at 07:00 PM on March 14

bigtall, thanks for turning this into your personal culpepper blog. My only comment is about the one and only stat that really counts: how many superbowls has your daunte won? for that matter, how many post-season games has he won? How many post-season games has he choked in?

posted by irunfromclones at 07:16 PM on March 14

Maybe Daunte will grow bigger hands (see Barry Bonds), never fumble and take the Phins to the Big Game! It could happen!

posted by mr padre at 08:03 PM on March 14

irunfromclones: how many superbowls has your daunte won? for that matter, how many post-season games has he won? How many post-season games has he choked in? 0 - 2 - 2

posted by BigTallChris at 08:31 PM on March 14

Now THAT'S a real Phins fan. I've changed my mind - Culpepper will likely throw, run and catch more touchdowns than the NFC combined this year and successfully perform an appendectomy at mid-field sometime during week 8. He is, after-all the most prolific QB in the history of the game. (though BigTallChris, I think if you can't admit that he does have to prove that he can do this all over again, I can change 'appendectomy' to 'brain surgery' and 'mid-field' to 'your house')

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 08:02 AM on March 15

Damn, I guess the Phins just released Gus Frerotte. I've always liked that guy. He always knew his role was as a backup and not a starter. Always kept quiet and did his job. At least he finally got his chance last year to start. Now they'll be shopping around for a backup. Hey, the Lions have four, do ya want one?

posted by wingnut4life at 08:23 AM on March 15

This is the perfect opportunity for someone to post a picture or clip of Gus Frerotte's head-butting TD celebration. Please.

posted by bperk at 08:33 AM on March 15

Let's face it, with the exception of occasional audibles, the coaches call the plays. Paging Peyton Manning ...

posted by wfrazerjr at 09:52 AM on March 15

Will a picture of Warren Sapp be ok?

posted by wingnut4life at 10:07 AM on March 15

That's a shame about Frerotte. He made me cringe several times last year, and Jennie Finch has more arm strength (gratuitous Finch photo here), but he handled the situation like a pro and never bitched about being in a tough situation. I'm trying to figure out who'll be the backup...at this point, the Phins have that kid they got in the Feeley trade (Cleo freakin' Lemon), and Brock Berlin, who I believe is in NFL Europe. Miami must think Pepa's knee is okay, becuase they cut Gus loose without doctor's approval of Daunte's bum wheel.

posted by The_Black_Hand at 11:54 AM on March 15

'Bum wheel' is one of my all-time favorite sports colloquialisms.

posted by WeedyMcSmokey at 01:03 PM on March 15

I just want to thank TBH for the nice little transition from Gus to the Jennie Finch photo...

posted by wingnut4life at 02:09 PM on March 15

That was gratuitous.... thank you tbh.

posted by tron7 at 01:00 AM on March 16

Culpepper is a good QB, but I will be happy to see him go. He is a fumbler and I believe he seems to have to much personal-emotional luggage to be a champion QB in the NFL. Come on the guy was born in a prison! The Vikes in the mean time need to start talking to Denver and get Jake the snake to minny- so he can get his ring. Oh, and good luck to you fins. You need it.

posted by vikesfan at 10:24 AM on March 17

Come on the guy was born in a prison! What does that have to do with anything? Are you just trying to prove that you are an ass?

posted by bperk at 10:48 AM on March 17

Wingnut- Direct quote from my profile under favorite teams-Lions (next year will be the year)

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 05:38 PM on March 17

YYM, understood. Question, how many shitty QB's does it take to make one good one? We are now on five and counting...

posted by wingnut4life at 05:48 PM on March 17

Jon Kitna isn't bad and McSomethingorother could turn out to be good. Plus, maybe Orlavsky is a superstar in waiting..... then again, I'd be better off cheering on the Texans.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 08:45 PM on March 17

I keep mixing up McCown with that other washup quarterback from Chicago, I think his name was McNown or something. That's why he gives me bad mojo. Kitna might be decent, but why in the hell did they sign Shaun King? I agree with you on Orlovsky, but he'll never get a shot now. Who do you think would want to pick up Joey?

posted by wingnut4life at 09:02 PM on March 17

I agree, Shaun King looks like a really dumb signing now. I'm not sure who will get Joey but there is a market out there and I won't be suprised if he goes to another team and does well. What will probably happen is the Vikings sign him and he tortures the Lions for the next ten years.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 05:35 AM on March 18

I honestly (not joking, really!) think that went to a team that didn't have the West Coast Offense, he'll be a pretty decent QB.

posted by wingnut4life at 07:23 AM on March 18

Sorry about the omit, I was talking about Joey.

posted by wingnut4life at 07:30 AM on March 18

I don't think many other people are finding our discussion interesting... Anyway, I think that whoever wins the Lions job has a great chance at doing well since Kevin Jones can run very well and they have a potentially excellent recieving corps. Obviously there is a lot of "ifs" involved but there is a lot of potential. Its still a mystery to me to who they'll draft though. I was leaning toward Cutler but not anymore.

posted by Ying Yang Mafia at 01:39 PM on March 18

Daunte is the best QB in Miami since Marino. That will say alot; until Brad Johnson gets his 2nd ring with the Vikes in 2006!!! Good luck Fins!!

posted by vikesfan at 04:14 AM on April 08

Daunte is the best QB in Miami since Marino. That will say alot; until Brad Johnson gets his 2nd ring with the Vikes in 2006!!! Good luck Fins!!

posted by vikesfan at 04:16 AM on April 08

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